"When a thing has been said, and said well, have no scruple. Take it and copy it." Anatole France What Brian does with his wonderful amps is not necessarily new and never done before. However, he does it so well and with such a fresh sense of honesty, his amps are truly one of a kind. Brian has never held back any information when asked. I have gotten advice from him in the past without a bill.
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2010 7:45 PM
Someone of the forum emailed me and asked me to send them pictures of the circuit board of the lone wolf delay pedal that I have, but I thought it would be better if the contacted Randy @ lone wolf to get them.
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 4:55 AM
I agree, it is questionable but if you bought it and it is not patented/licensed technology you can do whatever you want with it. You can get all the schematics of Fender amps online anyway and it is not considered to be bad in any way.
belfast harper I agree with you! @Leonid and anyone else that thinks it is OK to do that. There is a difference between pataent laws and what is right. I know not everybody operates within the same guidelines, but for everyone that doesn't know. Getting schematics off the internet and taking close up pics of an amp that someone makes a living selling. Is two major different things! There alot of people in the world (like myself) that know how to build amps and now that a schematic is just a starting point. What these pics show is whats called "lead dress". That is the exact location of everything. It makes a huge difference in how a amp sounds and/or how stable it is. The physical location of the componants is the key to building amps. I don't know Brain Purdy, but if you didn't ask him if you could post those pics. I would say that is wrong!
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2010 7:30 AM
I agree with Kingbiscuit, but I am often suprised by the lack of schematics supplied by builders, though wholly understand the reasoning with proprietry circuits/innovations (an adept tech can draw up a schem from a photo in minutes)...in the current age, pics of guts on e-bay sales are an inevitability.
However, I would say that the first port of call with any amp queries is always the vendor/builder. If after implementing their suggestions & if still having no luck, there are techs about who may advise, whilst guaranteeing confidentiality. So asking the Q first, then forwarding on pics via PM may be more gentlemanly.
Still not sure about that. After paying the full price for the amp which was about $2300 including postage and custom duties It is no longer vendors amp. Plus I ma not entirely happy with it but the is topic for a different discussion.
It is not just about that. The amp is feeding back badly and I was asking for advice. It should not happen to $2000 dedicated harp amp, I am very annoyed.
If anyone who purchases my amps has any issues, the best thing to do is contact me. I am always available and willing to help and I do provide a warranty.
I personally am not thrilled with someone posting close ups of the insides of my amps but as it was stated. He purchased the amp and he is using his best judgement.
Like I said, I am available for any questions you have nearly 24/7. Thanks, Brian
Why not post a close-up photo of the circuit of The Cruncher or Super Sonny JR. and see what kind of response you get from Gary ???? :o)
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2010 6:06 AM
"It is not just about that. The amp is feeding back badly and I was asking for advice. It should not happen to $2000 dedicated harp amp, I am very annoyed. "
9/10 it's the user that doesn't know how to dial in that amp. I don't have feedback issues with any amp. Look to your own skills Leonid.
Harpgear amps are awesome and if I were doing something a little more bluesy, I would have a HG50 in a heatbeat. To my ears, its the best sounding amp out there.
Jim, there is a thing call professional courtesy. You should show a little more respect for the those that are in the same business of making better gear for harp players. This is a small community and if you continue to do shit like this, nobody will want to work with you. It's your call, but I would never in a million and sixty seven years do that to Brian and I don't even like the guy all that much as I prefer people with luscious hair.
---------- "Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
"9/10 it's the user that doesn't know how to dial in that amp. I don't have feedback issues with any amp. Look to your own skills Leonid."
Leonid - I have to say I agree with Chris on this one. Also in my opinion you could have followed numerous avenues for advice on your feedback issues other than posting the circuit pictures on the internet.
1. You could have emailed Brian Purdy and asked his advice. 2. You could have asked on this forum and many others. 3. If you use effects pedals, etc you could have messed about with them to see if they were/are the issue. 4. You could have spoken to other players/amp techs in your area for advice. 5. You could have tried different mics, amp positionas, settings, etc.
My personal feeling is that you have demonstrated poor judgement in this instance. Which is something we all do from time to time.
If I were you I would remove the images from the internet and email an apology to Brian. If you asked him nicely he would probably still willingly help you try and solve any issues you have with the amp.
@ Jim You are the Julian Assange of the harmonica world. Wikiharps!
I don't quite understand the big deal here. I have no doubts that Brian, gary and scooter have looked at an assortment of schematics before building their respected amps. As for posting this stuff on forums, gosh it's been going on for a while.
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2010 8:18 AM
In the electronics community product teardowns are considered acceptable. So maybe we have a culture clash here. EETimes which is widely read by electronics engineers has a regular column for teardowns.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_teardown
Patents don't protect against this. To the contrary the point of patents is to get the information published, but then award some protection to the inventor.
I guess that the amplifier makers could protect their trade secrets by making the buyers sign a contract. In college I knew some arts majors that were discussing the idea of making people who purchased art sign a contract that would forbid them from modifying the works and some other things that I forgot.
Here's an art object with an interesting contract:
My new website will be THE place for harp knowledge. It will be ready soon.
I believe that harmonica is still in the stone age. Opensourcing knowledge can possibly make things better. And YOU, Chris are among those that artificially hold back the progress. ----------
About the pictures: looks like you're all forgetting what it means to have the right to do anything you want to YOUR stuff.
Leonid bought the amp and can do anything he wants to it. He can mod it. He can post pics of it. He can pour gasoline on it and burn it. It's his thing.
All my harp knowledge will go opensource. Promise. ----------
blue wires work best but some guys prefer purple and i respect that. and, i would defend your right to choose the whatever wire color that suits your taste to the death. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
There are many more up there. EETimes is a well respected publication read by many electronics engineers.
I assume that you've heard of open source software (or the slightly different free as in freedom software movement). Here's a somewhat dated article on open source hardware:
I think that this is what Jim means by open source. It's one reason why you see heated arguments about iOS and its walled garden versus Android.
I can understand why Harp Gear would prefer that customers contact them about issues before posting complaints. And that they could ask their customers to please not post schematics, bills of materials, board layouts, information about modifications, etcetera. (Have they?) They have probably protected themselves legally from cloners.
But these days it's expected that people will want to hack on their equipment, and some companies are embracing it.
Thanks Chris for editing your original message, it has left a bad taste in my mouth. Especialy part with your achievments :) I believe Jim does fantastic job for the harmonica community. Information can only bebefit us all. There no harm knowing what the amp looks like inside and what makes a good one. Same goes for cusotm harps (hint, hint).
Keith, I don't need to. It's a matter of respect. You CAN do whatever you want, but if you're being unfair about it you don't deserve the help that you need. He could have asked before spreading it all around.
One more thing, I find your comments guys extremely patronising. What can you possible do with an amp? SM57 ultimate, treble is on 4, mids 3 bass 6. Both preamp tubes are 12at7. when Volume dialed at 6 it starts go crazy. And NO I don't start in front of it.
Cos I asked Bryan, and he was very helpful but what can he do? It is not like I can pop in in his place, there is like 8000 miles between us. Long distance relationship :) Look, the amp overwise is fine I gig regularly with it. It's just I don't fancy spending another $500 on anti feedback pedal, another marble of modern technology.
It loks like it is a common problem then? I bought 50 watt amp so I don't have to mic it. If I need to stick a mic in front of it whay do I need this ampzilla? I played with Marble Harpmaster and it does not suffer from the same issues. I just do not understand what is so difficult about eliminating feedback?
Take it to the source - Brian is just about the most helpful amp tech anywhere and stands behind his products 100% and very forthright and generous with his information. Bitch to someone who CAN actually do something about it or at at least point you in the right direction. ----------- ~Banned in Boston!
Leonid, I'm not sure why you need the amp to be turned to 6 or more? One ofthe loudest harp amps that I have ever heard only ever gets turned to 2.5 to 3.
If you have an AC RMS voltmeter connect it accross the speaker terminals and play the amp at the loudest volume you can play, reading will fly around but try and determine an average, then post it.
On a typical volume control, being able to turn the amp up to 3/4 of a turn or more can actually introduce problems because reduced series resistance in the volume control lets more feedback causing high frequency pass.
I wonder if your expectation differs from what one might reasonably expect?
I would also expect a 12AX7 in V1 to provide good volume with your SM57, if fitting 12AX7 reduces sweep on the volume control there is a relatively easy fix, you need an ohmmeter & to be able to solder a resistor to the volume pot (it doesn't change the character of the amp, just pot sweep). So after doing the AC measurement with the 12AT's repeat with 2x12AX7.
Barry C - Leonid has already said that he lives thousands of miles from Brian, returning the amp would seem costly & impractical...there should however be someone local to Leonid who can execute any suggestions that Brian has...but first it is important to determine whether the amp is functioning as intended & Leonid has reasonable expectations (I'm not trying to patronise you here Leonid, just going by your assertion that you think you should be able to turn up the volume indefinitely, if you could do this your amp wouldn't make max possible power/dB at the speaker).
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2010 6:32 PM
Discussing settings is misleading. 1.) are the tube compliments the same? 2.) are the mics the same? 3.) are you in the same room?
I've used the amp on small to huge stages with full-sized rock bands that are loud. I have never had to run it above 5.
Too much bass will cause feedback as well as too much treble. I agree that the volume in regards to the actual number on the dial before feedback isn't all that impressive in my HG50 1210 with stock tubes, which are 12ax7, 12ax, 5u4, and 6L6. That being said, unless I am using a full effects rig without the Kinder AFB+, I can run it at 4-5 plugging straight in.
I have noticed that it really depends on the room and location of the amp. I always have a hard time hearing my amp it seems, but I know that that amp on 4 FOH, is way loud. Plenty to gig with a full band. In fact, in experimenting at home, the amp doesn't get much louder past 5-6...it just starts to distort more. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
Lone Wolf has the photos of the Epiphone Value Junior PCBs along with schematics and mods up on their page:
http://www.lwharpamps.com/projepimod.html
So if people are o.k. with that, then perhaps you can see how Jim and Leonid are o.k. with this. I can assure you that a ton of personal sacrifice goes into making any product whether it comes from a boutique shop or a large corporation. Consumers take so much for granted.
Hey Buddha, I have absolutely no opinion on the topic of this thread but I know Leo and I have to say I disagree with your opinion of him, he's a good guy and a great harp player. I have also had dealings with Jim and he has been nothing but a pleasure to deal with...very courteous and helpful. Leo has sat down with me and showed me harps he's modded, let me play them and explained how he did it. Jim has some old harps on their way to him in Bulgaria which he is going to fix up for me. Both of these guys have been open with their knowledge in the same way that Adam has and have never asked for anything in return. They are both good people and are very far from hollow. ---------- Oisin
Leonid - I think you are being quite naive if you want an amp that you can gig with without micing it into the PA. Almost every pro player I can think of uses a mic in front of their amp to get a good sound out front. Using any 50watt amp on volume 6 is damn loud. Steve Guyger for example uses a Fender Concert and NEVER turns it up above 3. Jason Ricci I seem to recall uses his HG50 on about 4. Even Rod Piazza often uses a mic on his HarpKing (100watt) amps.
A number of suggestions come to mind. 1. Ask the band you are playing with to turn down. 2. Try an EQ pedal 3. Go back to using a Harpmaster if it suits you better. 4. Look at your cupping technique. 5. Sell/swap the HG50 for a HarpKing 4X10 6. Change out the V1 12AT7 for a 12AY7 (maybe even swap both 12AT7 for 12AY7) 7. Buy a Kinder AFB+ 8. Take the amp to Mark Burness and ask him to mod it for you.
Another thought you say you are using an Ultimate SM57. Is the mic volume on full?
You could try setting the amp lower (say around 4) and opening the mic volume on full.
Also are you using a delay pedal? Excessive settings on a delay pedal can sometimes induce feedback earlier in an amp.
For what it's worth I can stand in front of a '59 Bassman LTD (maximum six feet from it) playing on volume 6, using a bullet mic with no volume control and totally avoid feedback. I suspect it might be your mic cupping technique that needs addressing.
99% of the people viewing the pictures, won't understand what they are looking at.
The 1% who do, will not need to as they will have their own ideas on how to build amps. They'll probably look and go, "Oh ,yes its based on a Bassman or Blackface" or whatever.
Other amp builders/designers, like 5F6H, do not post info on other peoples amps. This is out of professional courtesy, not because of patents or copyrights. Most of them have used the Fender, Mullard or RCA schematics which are all freely available.
Leonid should have contacted Brian at Harpgear, who would provide the required info.Swap tubes, change bias or this cap or that resistor.
As far as mic'ing a 40-50watt amp.You shouldn't need to in pubs or small clubs. But will require it in bigger venues
@6SN7: " As for posting this stuff on forums, gosh it's been going on for a while." Rhetorically speaking, this is the logical fallacy known as argumentum ad populum, sometimes called the bandwagon fallacy: Everybody does it, so it's okay. The problem is that everybody doing it does not make something morally right. It just makes it popular.
"I don't quite understand the big deal here. I have no doubts that Brian, gary and scooter have looked at an assortment of schematics before building their respected amps." Schematics are published voluntarily by the amp manufacturers. You may see privately drawn schematics in wide circulation, but usually that is only when the schematic is absolutely unavailable from the manufacturer.
You can be sure harp amp makers/techs like Brian or 5F6H know what's going on in the various boutique harp amps out there. But they learned it mainly by actually looking inside examples of those amps, measuring voltages, etc.: They did the work, they earned it. And they keep their mouths shut about it in public if the amp maker does, because doing the work engenders a respect for someone's efforts in developing something that works, that solves a challenging problem, whether it's patented or not.
This is an example of what used to be called a code of honor, which is no doubt a very quaint notion to some forum members. It matters not one whit if you don't mind giving your own stuff away--that does not give you the moral right to give other people's stuff away *if they are not giving it away*. Taking the back panel off a Meteor amp chassis voids the warranty--does that make it clear to you that Scott values his own development work on the circuit? Do you think Brian Purdy or John Kinder or Sonny Jr. would feel differently about having their layouts aggressively disseminated in public forums? It is possible for an open secret to remain a secret of sorts if everyone who knows it keeps silent in public, and sometimes keeping silent is the right thing to do.
@Oisin: Your logical fallacy is simple false analogy; the Adam analogy is utterly invalid. If Adam, Jim, or Leonid choose to give away ideas they've developed, that is their own intellectual property they are giving away, which is nice of them. If they choose to give away someone else's work, without that person's express permission, that makes them bad people. You think the common element of work being given away makes the two things equivalent. It's not all the same. If you don't realize that, please allow me access to your bank account, as I have some charitable donations I want to make--none to myself, mind you, which makes me a good person in your book.
@Leonid: Had you done your homework and used the Internet responsibly by researching the topic, you would have discovered that adding speaker area to an amp with sufficient power can often add projection before feedback, if you use harp-friendly speakers. There's a reason those big HarpGears are 6x10. Set your HG50 atop a 2x10 or even a 4x10 cab with proper harp speakers and proper impedance to run off the HG50 extension speaker jack and see what you have then. But needing more volume than a stock, healthy HG50 provides suggests that you need to examine the entire playing situation.
htownfess....You need to read my post again. I said I have absolutely no opinion on the thread topic. I was just responding to Buddha's crticism of Leo and Jim by saying they were hollow and bad people. I know them both and they are not. The fact that they both have freely offerd info to me is not trying to validate the original post subject but just an example of good things they have done...just like Adam. I don't "think the common element of work being given away makes the two things equivalent." Please don't put words in my mouth.
/Jim and Leonid, neither of you are good people. You're both hollow at the core and I feel sorry for you both./
Is a public harmonica forum really the place for such comments?
@htownfess:
Am I right in thinking that your views on the wrongness of schematic sharing are informed by a belief that certain kinds of intellectual property rights ought to be protected? The open source community is, AFAIK, fairly explicit in its rejection of such beliefs and would, moreover, reject conflation of (rightly) rewarding someone's labour and (wrongly) rewarding someone's ownership of intellectual property.
It's an interesting area, no?
xxx
EDITED to correct spelling
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2010 11:37 AM
"As far as mic'ing a 40-50watt amp.You shouldn't need to in pubs or small clubs."
I agree. I would only really mic a large amp in Big Concert halls or outdoor stages. I'd also add that if you are playing at volume levels like those mentioned by Leonid in the average sized British pub then you are simply playing TOO DAMN LOUD!!!!.
