strawwoodclaw
153 posts
Dec 12, 2010
10:52 AM
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@ Leonid, it is a good amp you have you just have to work out how to work with it. I think this amp was designed with Jason Ricci in mind you might be better using a SM57 with a HIZ transformer or a microphone with less output. Just because you can't turn the volume dial right up don't let that bother you, turn it up to just just before it feeds back & use it. I would like to try a medium impedance shure 99e86 CM with that amp. If you want a amp that you can turn right up without feedback I think Sonny JR are best for that . You could buy a Kinder AFB+. I was suprised at first when my Meteor feedback with the volume on a low dial but I have worked out how to use it & I am happy with it. I was told the feedback fresh hold will change the more you brake the amp in & I was surprised by how much the feedback fresh hold has changed.
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Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2010 11:18 AM
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Jagrowler
40 posts
Dec 12, 2010
11:50 AM
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quote 1 - "Open knowledge is the mother of progress. It's Leonid's amp and he can do anything he wants to it.
Close-ups of reed work on custom harps will come next!"
quote 2 - "I believe that harmonica is still in the stone age. Opensourcing knowledge can possibly make things better. And YOU, Chris are among those that artificially hold back the progress."
Jim - the 2 quotes above are both a bit daft. My old Dad (73 and still running) is an absolute wizard at restoring old motor cycles. Anything from 1920's 'flat-tankers' to (modern?) 1970's machines are turned around with the minimum of cost and the using the maximum of his EXPERIENCE. He once said to me that sometimes he does not actually know the solutuion to a particular problem, but is confident he will discover the solution when he gets working on it.
I suspect that EXPERIENCE is what Buddah (and others) have earned through previous work, and showing photos of their handy-work does not mean that any old Herbert can then get the same results. In fact, I can imagine many mangled or broken harps could result.
Much better to point would-be customisers to the very many You Tube videos and internet postings from people WANTING to share knowledge, rather than accusing Chris of being in the way of progress. Those willingly sharing their skills are also likely to support any queries etc.
'Open knowledge' will only aid progress if it is backed up with the extra knowledge behind the 'open knowledge'.
Regards amplifiers and the like, the same priciple applies. I've no experience of Brian at all, but would be very, very surprised if he wouldn't try his absolute best to help with any problems concerning his equipment. The harmonica world is a fairly small one you know.
As an example of why this is so daft, look at the advice in this thread - everything from Leonid changing how he holds the microphone to changing all the valves! Where do you start with that lot? (I would start by going back to Brian.)
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jim
523 posts
Dec 12, 2010
12:03 PM
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Jagrowler,
you're right. Just wait and see what I'm up to...
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www.truechromatic.com
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6SN7
117 posts
Dec 12, 2010
12:10 PM
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@htownfess
If you plunked a sonny Jr. schematic in front of me, it doesn't mean I can knock off the amp. There is a lot more than just that layout that goes into building and creating an amp. Do you think Skip Simmons shakes in his boots if someone publishes a schematic of his work on the net thinking his livelihood has been jeopardize? I don't think so.
There is probably a garage in China where they have a HG50, a Sonny Jr. and a meteor laid out like corpse taking pictures and measurements to make the ultimate harp amp that will rule the world. Total domination. Just wait until they find out the market for such an amp is one a month. And that someone like Brian or gary answers their own phone and cruises internet harp forum looking to be helpful.
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2010 12:18 PM
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Kingley
1384 posts
Dec 12, 2010
12:20 PM
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"This post started as someone looking for help and has evovled into a sanctimonious rant. A lot of stupid puffery and insults"
Mmmmm that's not quite factually correct. This thread started with"here are some good close-ups of the HarpGear circuit:
http://www.harperclub.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=149"
It didn't mention Leonid or his problems he is having with his amp. Neither does the link it mentions. The link simply states "Insides of HG50".
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Leonid
109 posts
Dec 12, 2010
12:44 PM
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That's just it I don't think the amp is loud enough. Osin, you have heard it. Sometimes I canoot een cut through the mix. And this is a normal english pub in residential area. So the gigs are not that loud in a first place. I have no idea may be the problem is not the feedback but overall volume of my particular amp.
@Buddha
I have never tried to be a nice guy. Personally, I think you don't get very far in life by being nice or soft. But I am honest, helpful and I do share everything I know with everyone. Not just in harmonica domain but also in my professional career. And I think transparency and knowledge sharing is the reason why I am successful in both areas. Then people are buying from me, whether it is consulting hours or anything harmonica related they know what they are getting. In other words, I will never make a living trying to con people into buying some magic voodoo beans, pretending that only I have an exclusive knowledge about the matter.
About the karma, Jesus!!! Chris has ever occurred to you that some your comments and general attitude caused many people to grow resentful towards you? You cannot just get offended when people retaliate to your remarks. I personally do stick up for the guys I know and every time you being nasty to Jim or Alex it gets my back up.
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rharley5652
315 posts
Dec 12, 2010
1:05 PM
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It's 2010-2011 / not 1940 <>
Any schematic can be found on the Net (almost any)
Just type in Guitar amp schematics,.
You'll find things like :
www.drtube.com/guitamp.htm
As 6SN7 says,..
"There is probably a garage in China where they have a HG50, a Sonny Jr. and a meteor laid out like corpse"
Soon to be sold at a music store near you.
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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wheel
25 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:05 PM
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I think that sharing the photos of this combo is not the sharing of your own knowledge it is sharing of somebody else's knowledge.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
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ZackPomerleau
1341 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:20 PM
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Wheel is correct. I think we should go find these guys houses and take pictures of the inside, and the insides of their cars, too. It's my camera so we can do that.
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MJ
234 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:29 PM
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@wheel..Teachers share other peoples knowledge all of the time.
It seems that the question here is weather or not it was ethical to share someone else s knowledge without their permission.
Brian stated that he was not "entirely thrilled" with it. Understandably so.
This thread is reminding me of a story my late brother used to enjoy telling. It went like this..
"They were sitting around the campfire. Someone said, "Tell us a story John." John began, "They were sitting around the campfire. Someone said, "Tell us a story John." John began... and so it went. And so it goes.
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2010 2:29 PM
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MP
1115 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:35 PM
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MJ,
so how does the story end? you got me hooked and i'm dying to know.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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6SN7
118 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:45 PM
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@ wheel
A schematic is not someone's else knowledge, rather it is the creation of that person's knowledge. To my knowledge, schematics are not patent protected but I would imagine if there is was a way award exclusivity to the designer, we would not these things on the web.
@ kingley
Yes, I was wrong on how it started, but correct on the rest of it. Two out of three ain't bad. 8>)
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MP
1117 posts
Dec 12, 2010
2:58 PM
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AHA! i thought it was Col. Mustard.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Stickman
564 posts
Dec 12, 2010
4:15 PM
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But Zack, In your analogy, you own the camera not the car or the house!
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ZackPomerleau
1342 posts
Dec 12, 2010
4:38 PM
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Yes, but my camera has mega zoom so I can in the house perfectly. I'm not on their property so it must be okay. I actually want to see why my house doesn't stay up, so this is my way of studying.
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Kyzer Sosa
896 posts
Dec 12, 2010
4:43 PM
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Things tangible, well, you can patent the manner in which you create it, but youre just shit out of luck if you think, especially if its popular, that someone wont break it down to its core and dissect and define every little thing. Thats just GOING to happen. example
2007, the iPhone comes out. With it comes 230+ patents on its inner workings and technology. Since then, how many clones of the iPhone have you seen? You only have to look at a Droid or HTC to figure that out. They built their entire brand SOLELY off the success of Apple's design. (imagine what it takes to deliver such a similar product and NOT ripoff 230+ patents)
Harpgear is a premium name, most certainly because of the small niche Brian dipped into with making them. If he says hes not entirely thrilled about it, that just tells me he has pride in his own work, but not that he's going to contact a lawyer to request a cease and desist letter.
someone said 1% of the people who see it will take something from it. my hunch is, that's why no one directly involved is really upset. its not like im going to attempt a KyzerGear amp based on Mr. Purdy's schematics anytime soon. and anyone who owns one could look for themselves anyway.
The bottom line, as i understand from the Original Post, is that the owner has issues with the amp. Instead of pasting pictures of the insides in an attempt to have someone indifferent comment on a possible fix....um, duh, just call Brian?
anything else seems like wiping your butt BEFORE you take a poop.
edit: no, jim was just doing it to show the insides... hmm, what purpose does that serve?
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2010 4:45 PM
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KeithE
135 posts
Dec 12, 2010
5:22 PM
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Zack - are you o.k. with the following:
Why?
Is it because you think this amp sucks?
Is it because you don't know the designers of this amp?
Is it because you like Lone Wolf?
Maybe you think that the intent of Leonid/Jim is to clone the amp amd cost the company business, but the intent of Lonewolf is to improve the amp and thus generate more sales?
As I said earlier - this isn't right because it "can" be done. It's because it's completely socially and legally acceptable. It's done all the time and published in the mainstream press. Except I guess it's unacceptable in this small circle. Experts in the electronics field seem to agree on this as being acceptable. Product teardowns really do tear a product down - the chips are x-rayed or worse. Costs are estimated.
There are things that can be done to prevent it. Ask the customers nicely not to do this at the time of sale and put it in the documentation. Is this done, or is it an unwritten/unspoken code? Or prevent the customers from doing this via a legal contract.
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ZackPomerleau
1343 posts
Dec 12, 2010
5:56 PM
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Keith, I respect those builders so I don't do that. I think it's disrespectful to dissect something like that. Now, before you throw the Epi Valve thing at me, I truly believe that is different.
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MrVerylongusername
1403 posts
Dec 12, 2010
6:28 PM
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@Jim
Since you took the time to create a thread on this very busy forum, why didn't you post the pictures here instead of directing people to sign up to your very quiet forum?
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HarpNinja
826 posts
Dec 12, 2010
6:57 PM
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@Mr...
I caught that too, lol. All press is good press, I suppose. At any rate, I hope the fb issue gets resolved as I just can't say enough about the HG amps in general...double true if you aren't a straight blues cat.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
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kudzurunner
2124 posts
Dec 12, 2010
7:03 PM
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I'm carrying my HG2 on the plane to Amsterdam tomorrow. It's a fantastic amp. Or at least mine is. I'm sure every new amp is slightly different.
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jim
527 posts
Dec 13, 2010
12:19 AM
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It actually depends more on you than me if my forum is quiet or not.
And besides - it takes much more movements to add a photo to this forum than to mine.
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www.truechromatic.com
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2010 12:20 AM
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wheel
26 posts
Dec 13, 2010
1:26 AM
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MJ,6SN7, There is a simple analogy if you hack someone's program and share source code in the Web... is this a good act? :)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
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jim
532 posts
Dec 13, 2010
1:28 AM
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you can't possibly revert a program to the source code.
hacking apps is legal. Read the latest US law changes (the apple and jailbreaking case).
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www.truechromatic.com
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wheel
27 posts
Dec 13, 2010
1:48 AM
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jim this is technical details that I didn't write for simplicity. You understand what I mean :)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
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jim
533 posts
Dec 13, 2010
2:17 AM
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not really. You can hack and app and distribute it for free. You can't do that to an amp.
You can take pics of the insides and post it with schematics. You can't do that to an app. Source code can't be obtained from a compiled build.
To put it simple: in an app build, you see the result. Say, "11". This could be "square root of 121", "13-2", or anything. You just can't reverse engineer this.
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www.truechromatic.com
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wheel
28 posts
Dec 13, 2010
3:04 AM
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Jim, I'm a programer also. I know what you mean, but I write this for common people. Imagine that you have the source code of this program in any other way (for example reverse engineering) and you share it through Internet. :) But lets end up this dialog it become silly and offtop.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/wheelharp
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phogi
464 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:27 AM
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For some reason I feel compelled to chime in.
I've been customizing my harmonicas for 2 years. I started half a year after I started playing. Yet, I know that none of them are as good as the B-rad I got to play one time. Eventually I will buy a custom harp, probably a Buddah harp. This is because I've been exposed to the process of customizing harps, and I see that he has dedicated more time to customizing than I could ever invest.
Yet, the only place I heard of customizing was from how to videos. Specifically, Chris's embossing video.
Same thing with an amp. When I buy a nice harp amp (if I ever do) it will prob be a harp gear. Why? First, Adam's endorsement. Second, I've heard a HG50 played in a live situation, it ROCKS! Third, it's good enough the people want to see it's guts. This thread has mostly served to remind me that I should e putting money away for an eventual HG purchase.
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LIP RIPPER
350 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:39 AM
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AG, what will be the team mate to the HG? Kay or Premier?
I hope it's warmer when you land. Looking forward to the details of the trip.
Let's see if we can avoid a lock down while you're outta town.
LR
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kudzurunner
2125 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:50 AM
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I'm bringing the Kay in my big suitcase. I'm insane. Most harp guys, except for the major acts, don't bring their own amps. I just know how good a sound I'll get this way and I'm willing to pay an extra $50 for my 69 pound suitcase. ($50 premium between 50 and 70 pounds.)
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jim
534 posts
Dec 13, 2010
5:23 AM
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phogi,
drop me an email - I have something for you.
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www.truechromatic.com
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Pluto
118 posts
Dec 13, 2010
6:17 AM
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it sounds to my like a discussion on whether or not intellectual property should be protected, nothing more. I think you might want to ask yourself what would happen if intellectual property wasn't protected. No body wants to work for free.
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MJ
236 posts
Dec 13, 2010
8:19 AM
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Wheel...I don't believe I ever stated an opinion one way or the other on this matter, but no it is not good to hack someones program and share the code. However if you buy that program from someone, the question arises if you have the right to do with it as you wish if there is no statement or agreement at time of sale stating otherwise.
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toddg
1 post
Dec 13, 2010
11:16 AM
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Hi phogi , ETC
If you are looking for the deal of your life on a Harpgear HG 50 I have a almost brand new one for $ 1,150 . plus shipping !!
Email me !!
Todd
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HarpNinja
836 posts
Dec 13, 2010
12:55 PM
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At risk of knowingly stirring the pot, where was this discussion when the B-Rad came out and someone from the forum posted several pics of of the insides including zoomed shots of the reeds?
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
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HarpGear
6 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:02 PM
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I really don't know what to say to much of this, to be honest. I will say people are free to give away what I have worked hard to develop. In the end if it becomes mass produced or someone else takes the intellectual property and makes a competing product, I may not be able to afford to stay in business. I work hard to continually innovate for our community and make better products.
If the product information from people like Scooter, Gary or myself is freely given away and we can no longer make it profitable to continue to work on new ideas and designs we all will suffer as a community.
The amount of time and money spent modifying circuits, trying speakers, transformers etc is more then most will ever understand if you haven't done it. To then see people freely decide it is right to give that information we worked hard on and paid to develop on the net for free is simply disheartening.
I continue to smile and be on call 24/7 for this community because I love it. Anyone who has dealt with me will tell you that even if they are calling me about an amp that isn't mine I try to help them. Whether it be on technique or tubes. I ask nothing in return for this ever. It is sad to think this is the way it is repaid.
Regarding the volume before feedback, 6 on the HG50 is very loud. Jason Ricci who has been accused of being very loud plays at 4. There will always be constraints to what we can do in a circuit and trade offs that must be made. I play out with an HG50 often and I get into loud situations with the amp and if the band you are playing with is drowning out the HG50 at 6 then you may need to mic it.
As I said before, I am always available to answer questions about this if you decide to write me regarding this.
Thank you,
Brian
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HarpGear
7 posts
Dec 13, 2010
4:12 PM
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@Jim, if I purchase all of Adam's tabs, should I be free to put them on my site for free? Would that be morally ok in your book? Will you do things like this on your site where you promise all info to be open? I am just curious if there are limits in your mind on this. No offense is intended, just honest inquisitiveness. :)
Brian
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jim
535 posts
Dec 13, 2010
5:13 PM
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@brian
I host, admin and moderate a website and a forum. This may be funny, but NONE of the people who began arguing here actually SAW those photos. Attachments are visible to registered users only, and AFIAK none of those who started to attack Leonid and me took their time to register.
To put it another way: it could have been an empty thread, but still people would argue. This means that the whole point was just to tell how much they didn't like Leonid and me.
About the tabs: I think the whole idea of selling tabs is strange. I don't know, I think no one would buy them (my IMHO, I have no idea if it brings money)... There'll always be people who will pay IN ANY CASE, and those who will not pay no matter how low the price is. To put it frank: I will not care if you put Adam's tabs or not. I have never used them, and don't view it as some piece of art. Maybe Adam would care. Maybe not, I don't know. Would I put them on my website? Nope, there are much better things to put on the website. Info on Rharley's mics for example. Or Slava's awesome combs. Tabs are not worth to be put on ANY site... They belong to the forum. Again, my IMHO.
I make software, and our apps get pirated BIG TIME. What do I think of this? I think it just adds popularity to the software. They would never buy it anyway.
I will give away all knowledge I have about harmonicas, as I promised. Will I lose profit? No. I can make one good instrument per 2-3 weeks (if we're talking of OB setup...). I already have more requests than I can ever fulfill. My experience will teach people and generate new ideas in their turn. Community wins. And many players have no time/no skill to work on harmonicas. They will always need someone to do it.
And I do lots of stuff pro bona too. Ask Dennis Moriarty (bigd), I've made 13 harmonicas for him for free.
Back to the amps: you can't download an amp. You can't even make one if you don't know how. It can max. cause a mod which can't be bad. Or a clone. Clones are usually lower in quality. By the way, where are cheap chinese Twin Reverbs? Bassmans? Don't see any...
I think we'll all be fine. The community will grow and learn. A bigger and more educated community needs more sophisticated instruments and gear. In other words, you and me will only gain.
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www.truechromatic.com
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2010 5:24 PM
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Learning Harp
24 posts
Dec 13, 2010
5:24 PM
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I don't know. I build amps and all sorts of audio electronics. I put a great deal of time into the layouts and wiring. I also use top quality components. If someone posted photos of my work I would be quite happy showing it off. My $.02.
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jim
536 posts
Dec 13, 2010
5:31 PM
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Learning Harp,
drop me an email.. I may have a good offer for you about effect pedals.
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www.truechromatic.com
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Ryan
395 posts
Dec 13, 2010
5:48 PM
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"it could have been an empty thread, but still people would argue. This means that the whole point was just to tell how much they didn't like Leonid and me."
Are you serious? That's some seriously absurd logic. You made a post saying you had these pictures posted, people believed you, but you require people to register to your forum to see them. But the fact is most people aren't interested in seeing those pics, not enough to sign up for your forum. The people who argued with you have a problem with the idea of people posting that type of stuff. Just because they didn't go register your site to see whether or not you were lying and making the whole thing up, it doesn't mean that they had some alterior motive for posting their arguments, nor does it make their arguments any less valid. Do you honestly think anyone cares about you enough to sit around thinking "I really dislike leonid and jim, I can't wait until I have some excuse to trash them and make them look bad"? I think you're giving yourself to much credit.
If I posted a message bragging about how I stole all of Howard Levy's harmonicas, and people started posting messages condeming my actions, would it be rational for me to say "You guys never bothered to check to see if I was telling the truth(all you had to do was call howard), but you people still argue. This means that the whole point was just to tell how much you all don't like me". That would be pretty absurd.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2010 5:51 PM
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jim
537 posts
Dec 13, 2010
6:02 PM
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I should have just print-screen'ed the comments that Chris deleted ;)
This would prove not only what I said, but many other things.
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www.truechromatic.com
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MrVerylongusername
1407 posts
Dec 13, 2010
6:26 PM
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Jim, quite frankly your motive is transparent. You are not Robin Hood, your actions on this forum have been about generating income by directing traffic to your site. You presumably get a pay-per-hit commission from Seydel, no?
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secl_HbswyJ9mM/?ObjectID=713788
*DISCLAIMER* I'm not implicating Seydel in this affair. I'm sure they'd be uncomfortable with the ethics of this too.
This thread began life as the kind of sensationalist spam that gets directed to my junk-mail folder everyday "Naked pics of Anne Widdecombe - click here!".
Your actions have threatened the livelihood of one individual so you can make a few grubby cents.
I don't know Brian, but the fact he's STILL offering to help Leonid makes him a saint in my book.
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Leonid
110 posts
Dec 13, 2010
6:36 PM
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Stealing Howard's harmonica and buying them and posting pictures afterwards are two different things.
Anyway, I am quite upset by the fact thet every single thread on this forum turns into some nasty argument.
Why some farly respected players feel the need to compensate for their own failures in life by pooring dirt over everything they find even remotely threatening.
@Bryan
Nobody will be able to copy your amp schematics the pictures are not detailed enough, you cannot read markings on most of the elements and that was never my intention. Several people contacted me regarding the matter but I will never do that. I have huge amount of respect for you and these people can basically flip themselfs.
@EVERYONE
I have no commercial or any other interest in Jim's business but what he is doing is truly facinating. You will see, it is going to be huge. And you you want to learn anything I suggest you register there. Alternatively, you can endlessly argue about what makes a true bluesman or who stole what from afro-american community or any other nonsence. This is not going to make you a better player.
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Leonid
111 posts
Dec 13, 2010
6:47 PM
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Jim doesn't get anything from Seydel. He is a computer programmer. Jim is endorsed by Seydel in the same way as Jimi Lee, Mark Hummel and James Cotton and that is the reason why the logo is there.
Seriously guys, Jason is a harmonica god and here is far from being rich.
The only people who make money out harmonicas are the ones who charge for quickly tweaked "custom" instruments $300 a pop.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2010 6:47 PM
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harpwrench
378 posts
Dec 13, 2010
7:24 PM
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"The only people who make money out harmonicas are the ones who charge for quickly tweaked "custom" instruments $300 a pop." - Leonid 6:47 PM 12-13-10
Why don't you be more specific about this Leonid? I'm tempted to be offended by what you say, since I'm one of perhaps only 5 people in the world that I'm aware of who can actually sell a diatonic for that amount of money. I'll let you attempt to explain yourself intelligently, instead of jumping to conclusions about your intent.
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chromaticblues
394 posts
Dec 13, 2010
8:02 PM
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It seems quit obvious that people should just stop getting envolved with these two.
Nacoran where are youuuuu!
Do the forum a favor!
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HarpNinja
838 posts
Dec 13, 2010
8:18 PM
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I have a harp from harpwrench that is worth $300. It is an amazing harmonica to say the least and a total joy. No way it was quickly tweaked, lol. Even just setting gaps is a long process. Having followed harpwrench here and on Harp-l, then trying and seeing his work, there is nothing quick about perfection.
Having worked one on one with Buddha, the same time and attention to detail goes into his harps.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
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Kyzer Sosa
899 posts
Dec 13, 2010
8:22 PM
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a man sells a quickly tweaked harmonica for $300 and never sells another...
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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Ryan
396 posts
Dec 13, 2010
9:24 PM
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Leonid, It's pretty clear that you didn't understand my post....at all. No where did I claim that stealing someones harmonicas and the posting of your pictures are somehow equivalent. Nor did I make any claims on the ethics of posting the pictures. My post and the example I gave, were simply pointing out the absurdity of jim's logic (ie. claiming that the fact that people didn't register to his site, to see if he was telling the truth about the pictures, is somehow proof that the only reason they're arguing is that they don't like you and him).
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