CarlA
230 posts
Jan 11, 2013
4:25 AM
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My Seydel Steel Session was laid to rest yesterday evening 9:30 pm after sustaining a fractured (approximately 1mm distal to rivet) of the #9 blow reed. Every attempt was made to resuscitate the Seydel in the car right before the blues jam, but efforts were in vain and time of death was pronounced at 9:46 pm. Final resting place is in the back dumpster of the venue.
I played the Seydel for probably 45 minutes of use total, so I guess the whole "stainless reeds last much longer" jargon unfortunately didn't apply to my poor baby. She will be missed!
-Carl
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Bart Leczycki
78 posts
Jan 11, 2013
5:22 AM
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Hi CarlA, I play on Seydels for 5 years (120gigs and 30 masterclasses per each year). I didn't have situation like this. I'm sure you can send this reedplate to Seydel and they send you back totally new one.
BTW please check your breath control, maybe this is a point.
I'm sure I can break titanium knife if I don't know how to use it :o)
==============================
www.bleczycki.com
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2013 5:23 AM
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arzajac
948 posts
Jan 11, 2013
5:39 AM
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Senseless waste!
The reed could have been replaced. You could have gotten back a harp that was better than new.
MP charges $10 (US only). I live in Canada and charge $15 for complete service which includes a reed replacement.
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Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2013 5:42 AM
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MN
234 posts
Jan 11, 2013
5:34 AM
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Shame on you, CarlA, for scaring the hell out of me with your "R.I.P Seydel Steel Session" thread title! ;-)
I thought you meant they were discontinuing them. I LOVE mine.
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rbeetsme
1043 posts
Jan 11, 2013
5:43 AM
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I would have pitched it too. Most guys blow out the #4, you must live high on the harp. Wait, put a little duct tape on 9 +10 and stay on thew low notes. You could call it your Kentuckyharp.
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2013 5:44 AM
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Willspear
265 posts
Jan 11, 2013
6:26 AM
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Or you could have had it repaired for free with little hassle by seydel.
I had a seydel freak reed break with little use. It was returned to me within a week total time from the date I dropped it in the mail. I was not hassled for a reciept or given any sort of trouble. It was literally no questions asked.
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STME58
352 posts
Jan 11, 2013
6:29 AM
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When my session steel goes out I replace the reed, or if I don't have a donor reed from an old reed plate, I buy new reed plates. Its much cheaper than a new harp.
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clyde
296 posts
Jan 11, 2013
6:41 AM
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Arzajac,
MP?
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HawkeyeKane
1383 posts
Jan 11, 2013
6:42 AM
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MP only works on Hohners, arzajac. He'd have to send it to you, or someone like Greg Jones or Mike Fugazzi to replace the reed. Rockin Ron also sells Session Steel reedplates.
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Hawkeye Kane
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arzajac
949 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:05 AM
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Clyde: MP is a forum member.
HawkeyeKane: I could have sworn he did....
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Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2013 7:32 AM
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barbequebob
2164 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:07 AM
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There isn't a single reed material type ever made that will never succumb to death because of someone using way too much breath force, although stainless steel is probably the toughest and holds its pitch longer than any other, but poor breath control will ALWAYS kill anything. The factory warranty for Seydel, especially the stainless steel reeds is 2 years, and if you've blown one out in less than that time, it's obvious that you're playing them way too hard, and on top of that, most likely constantly bending past the floor of the bend, which is often the case with people who play too hard all the time, and that makes things a helluva lot worse.
In the note bending technique with diatonic harmonicas, you have to remember that the reeds work together as a pair in each hole. In holes 1-6, where the bends are on the draw notes, it's actually the blow reeds that are doing the bending, and from holes 6-10, where the bends are the blow notes, the exact opposite happens. To most people's ears, the draw bends appear to be louder than the blow bends is because, as I stated the blow reeds do the real bending in holes 1-6, and so the ears hear them split seconds SOONER than the blow bends, which are being done on the draw reeds. LO's tool kit mentions this phenomenon and if you don't believe this, remove both cover plates, and then hit 4 draw, then bend the note and then place a finger on 4 blow and the first thing you'll notice that the bend completely stops.
Now do the same thing, but this time on 9 blow, and then bend the note and then place a finger on 9 draw and you'll notice the bend stops completely.
The most commonly blown out notes tend to be 4 draw, 5 draw, 9 blow, 10 blow, and on harps from the key of D and higher, 4 blow.
With stainless steel reeds or on LO's, if you've blown one out in less than a year, you're CLEARLY guilty of playing them way too hard.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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HawkeyeKane
1384 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:19 AM
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@azarjac
Okay, just found out he also does Lee Oskars now.
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Hawkeye Kane
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CarlA
231 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:35 AM
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@Bart
I used to play with pretty strong force, but in the past few months I realized the folly of it and have become a Barbeque Bob convert and disciple.
I am bummed too because it was the harp that I got my first overblows on a couple weeks ago :(
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CarlA
232 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:42 AM
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P.s
I have a few hohner blues harps in my car that I have been TRYING to blow-out reeds on and I have still not managed it. Harps are still in tune and play pretty well overall, so I am still not convinced its my technique,etc that caused the seydels untimely death!
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2013 7:43 AM
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HawkeyeKane
1385 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:38 AM
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@CarlA
Why in the name of Larry Adler are you intentionally trying to blow out reeds on ANY harp?
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Hawkeye Kane
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STME58
353 posts
Jan 11, 2013
8:22 AM
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I like CarlA’s skepticism and experimentation. There are a lot of uncontrolled variables in “trying to blow reeds out” though. In an earlier thread I presented calculations showing that at a constant 0.6PSI pressure, a brass A 440Hz reed would fail in about 6 hours. I am not sure how long you can play tunes until you have accumulated 6 hours on a particular reed. Is anyone aware of any experiments where reeds are subjected to steady air pressure until the fail to see how big of an effect higher pressure has?
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isaacullah
2234 posts
Jan 11, 2013
8:44 AM
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While we are (sort of) on the topic of reed material and reed breakage, I've always wondered why no one has experimented with making harmonica reeds out of Kevlar or some such material. They make saxaphone reeds out of it (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/woodwinds/fibracell-synthetic-alto-saxophone-reed), and people seem to love them. It seems to me that it might even be easier to make harmonica reeds out of this type of material (easier to mold/machine)...
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Check out my songs on Soundcloud!
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GMaj7
172 posts
Jan 11, 2013
8:56 AM
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There have been some instances where the stainless reeds on the higher end appear to be prematurely breaking. First and foremost, if you have a brand of harp that you consistently break and one that you don't, play the one that lasts....
However, if you are having problems with Seydel reed breakage, contact me for low cost quick repair. I'm doing some experiments with reed polishing. Eugene (Jim) encouraged me to try it and I am kind of curious to see if polished reeds last a bit longer.
Lastly, if you buy a harp or a set of reed plates from me, I'll fix your broken reed for no charge.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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dougharps
319 posts
Jan 11, 2013
10:36 AM
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About 2 years ago I had a 9 blow on an "A" Seydel Silver die on me after blow bending the 9. I may have been abusing it by blowing too hard, holding the bend too long. I have improved in playing more gently, though at times I still get excited while sitting in with a loud band with poor monitoring, as it was when it failed. It didn't break off, just went irretrievably flat.
However, I had never had any other 9 blow reed fail on any harp in 40 years of diatonic playing, some of the time during which I was admittedly playing far too hard. I think that with tighter tolerances and with the short reeds, steel may not have much advantage in durability. And when it goes flat, it can't usually be retuned.
Dave Payne was doing repair then, and he replaced it for me.
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Doug S.
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HawkeyeKane
1387 posts
Jan 11, 2013
10:47 AM
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@dougharps
I can relate to that. The blowbend on the 9 of the A harp is something I use fairly extensively. Usually, what kills that hole for me isn't the reed going flat. But its that the reed will either jam completely, or only respond to normal playing airflow and choke out on the blowbend. Sometimes I can unjam it with a plink test or a lateral adjustment. But it's only every once in awhile that I can recover that particular reed in any way shape or form. The A 9-blow reeds that seem to last the longest for me are, believe it or not, Hohner MS reeds.
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Hawkeye Kane
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nacoran
6378 posts
Jan 11, 2013
11:16 AM
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Isaac, there is also a guy who makes titanium sax reeds out there. I'd be interested in seeing some of the memory metals used. Alternately, I'd like to see some liquid metal (glass metal) used. It's supposed to be much springier than regular metals, and I've kind of wondered if it would work as a built in amplifier or reverb. :)
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Nate
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CarlA
233 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:59 PM
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HawkeyeKane
1385 posts
Jan 11, 2013
7:38 AM @CarlA
Why in the name of Larry Adler are you intentionally trying to blow out reeds on ANY harp?
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Because I am trying to keep up pace playing acoustically in the car(parked) with the volume pinned on the cd player. It's the equivalent of playing amped at a blues jam, trying to keep pace with the wild guitarists-lol
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boris_plotnikov
818 posts
Jan 12, 2013
5:12 AM
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It's not a big problem to replace reeds, Seydel offers spare reeds and set of tools to replace them.
BTW I mostly kill high reeds. I have 9 blow on my 1847 in C replaced, 9 blow on session steel replaced and 10 blow on low F replaced and also 6 draw on G. It's for 2 years of playing Seydel only. About 50 gigs a year, about 1-2 hours per day for practice and rehearsals. And as I get full set of spare reeds I gived up being nervous about not playing too hard (for a four years or so I was very soft and quiet player, but now I like to play really loud!)
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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MP
2648 posts
Jan 12, 2013
12:06 PM
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Hello,
i only do Hohners and Lee Oskars because those are the parts i have in spades.
i have tuned up 1847s and adjusted their reeds but don't care to. stainless steel is very dense material. i worry about my files and rotary tool.
i don't know if my worries are warranted, but those reeds are TOUGH.
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MP
affordable reed replacement and repairs.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
click user name [MP] for info-
repair videos on YouTube.
you can reach me via Facebook. Mark Prados
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A440
53 posts
Jan 13, 2013
1:20 PM
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On a slightly different note, sometimes people report that they buy a model of harp which is highly rated, only to find it sounds terrible, plays terrible, or breaks immediately. I am wondering to what extent counterfeiting has invaded the harp industry. On a global basis, it is rampant in most other industries. So maybe those occasional Crossovers and Manjis (and is this case stainless steel Syedels) that perform nothing like their reputation, are in fact, counterfeits. I saw a documentary that compared a counterfeit Rolex to a real Rolex - you could not tell the difference, except the fake one broke after a few weeks. Does anyone have any information or insight on counterfeiting within the global harp industry?
Last Edited by on Jan 13, 2013 1:23 PM
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GMaj7
173 posts
Jan 13, 2013
2:01 PM
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I think I can say with certainty that any instance of a counterfeit name brand harmonica is very very rare.
25 years of experience in enforcement side of counterfeit business.. I've never seen one and don't expect I will.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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