I’m drawing a line in the sand to defend us from where we may be heading in the Blues harmonica world.
In another thread I stated I was becoming saddened by the overwhelming emphasis on positions, intervals, theory and all of the music science so many seem preoccupied with. After awhile it gets very mechanical. !st, no 5th, it’s a major third, nooooo it’s a minor, mine’s bigger, no mine’s bigger. Geezz.
What happened to just marveling at the sweet sounds and textures that can come out of a harp? I read nothing about the creative rhythms or the uplifting syncopations you can generate on a harp. The wonderment of the “How” is dying, now it’s “How many” or “give me the tabs”. It’s all getting to be mechanical, robotic and taken for granted. It makes me want to get in a room with a bunch of Nerf balls and go to battle. There’s no shortcut, no magic pill and no secret ingredient in all of the Theory discussions.
To those that will argue that theory makes the player, then to you I say, “Theory is important, but you offer no inspiration with a purely Music Theory Approach to playing or developing insight.” You offer no reason to play and no motivation to learn one of the most difficult and demanding instruments available. There’s no emotion in a mathematical approach to Blues harp. Playing by numbers is akin to painting by numbers – it’s flat and lifeless. Where’s the passion and where does the nuance and texture come from if not from emotion? I’m not a Theory basher. I just don’t think it’s the magic elixir. I'm not attacking anybody - just trying to protect a long tradition.
To those who have that wide-eyed enthusiasm listening to Dennis pound the low notes or Filisko doing one of his rhythms, or Jason rippin’ it up, or PT’s seemingly effortless glides, or Howard’s jazzy moves - then I’m with you all the way, because I still get those same feelings of excitement and awe as when I started this journey 40 years ago.
How do they do it? I still ask myself that same question. We need those challenges to keep moving forward. If knowing theory is all it took to be a very good player, then there would be no challenge beyond the "mechanics of playing," and this journey (at least for me) would have been a pointless exercise and a dead end.
You are going to have to decide which side of the line you stand on.
As for myself: Enough equations, I’m just gonna play.
I'm a newbie to the harp but I've played blues guitar for nearly 40 years. I'm sure theory and science, etc, has it's place in music but for me personally it has always bogged me down when it comes to playing the blues. I'm not in any way bashing those that take that route but I've always found my blues playing is at it's best when fueled by feeling and emotion rather than technical theory. I just like to keep it simple and don't want to "think" a lot while I'm playing. I know everyone's different and what works for one may not work for another. Just my two cents worth.
Well, people will geek out on stuff.... Personally, as a life long guitar player and singer who took up harp 6 months ago, I just love exploring the instrument. It's a such a fascinating and expressive thing that i can't ever seem to practice and play it enough. I've always been an ear player anyway, i understand enough theory to get the job done but after that, I don't give damn. My girl is also getting into playing and one night I noticed she was playing in E minor on a G harp {I was playing guitar at the time and she just noodled {no referential pun intended} an E minor melody. I found that interesting and have no idea what position it is called, this playing a minor key a step and a half down from the harp key. Whatever it is I do it all the time now since I find it often works well with the other chords commonly used in reference to the minor chord a step and a half down from the key of the harp. So Noodles, while i do use some theory to do stuff, a lot of my practicing and playing is purely PLAYING, having fun exploring the instrument, musically and tonally. I get info from these forums about stuff, technique and such, but in the long run I just mess with the thing endlessly. I can sound pretty decent sometimes... Not to thread Hijack, but my thing is really not Blues, I'm playing {working on it} a lot of other stuff, vocal lines from songs, horn solos from Luis Armstrong tunes, keyboard parts from music so utterly non-blues {like The Cure}, old movie songs, all kinds of stuff. Hey I LOVE roots music like Blues and country, I play that too, I just haven't been working on that on the harp much at all. Perhaps some would say I'm missing the point? I don't know, it's an instrument that can play all kinds of stuff and sound great doing it and there sure isn't any shortage of people blowing blues. I'll get to it sooner or later. Anyway, I'm not a theory addict, and am really into making nice sounds so at least one harp playing {+guitar, bass, vocals} person is not all about the math as I call it.
Cheers
Zellecaster
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 2:21 PM
I've been playing the harominca for 54 years and don't know one stitch of theory. I play strictly by ear. I play the music I like and the style I like. I don't know what position I'm playing or what hole I'm blowing or drawing on. If I hear something that I want to play on harmonica, I pick the damn thing up and start playing till I get it or give up on it. ---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
@ Sarge - It's one thing to not know a lick of theory, but to not know what hole your playing?! That's pretty much instrumental illiteracy. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but If I told you I play the trumpet, but I Don't even know which buttons I'm pressing, you would probably look at me like I'm a fool. That has nothing to do with theory, but with learning the instrument, plain and simple. ----------
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 2:35 PM
I don't get this "draw the line" business at all. The harmonica itself is designed based on principles found....guess where? Yes, sorry to lay it on you but, principles found in the study of western music theory. You can't get away from it. ---------- Sun, sun, sun Burn, burn, burn Soon, soon, soon Moon, moon, moon
I don't get the whole 'Draw the line' business either. I don't understand why learning theory is a bad thing. If you want to learn it, learn it. If you don't, that's fine too. What I don't understand is the mentality that learning theory is going to harm your playing in some way. If it confuses you and you don't want to learn it, just filter it out. ----------
In response to some of the thoughts in the original post:
Theory is very good for undestanding how music fits together. I think the best way to approach it is to practice theory like you would any other part of your playing, then forget about it when you are actually playing. Scale exercises are a wonderful way to work on theory, and they help you to develop new musical ideas. Jason Ricci has a really good video on this topic. ----------
I am probably one of the worst when it comes to literally presenting equations here. However, I agree with the main ideas in your post. Even though I enjoy the math and have a driving desire to understand how things work (the curse of being an engineer), a well-played piece of music can inspire me, bring me to tears or elicit other strong emotions. This is not in the equations.
Many years ago my music theory teacher told us that the masters did not use the theory. Music theory was created after the fact by studying what great music had in common. If you learn the rules of theory and stick to them your music will not be bad, but neither will it be great (like your paint by numbers analogy). Great music will require that you break the rules in a way that makes it great, and the theory cannot guide you in how to do that. The deeper insights that come from thoughtful study of theory MAY help you find a path, but theory itself will not get you there.
I also like something my differential equations instructor told us. Every time you take a step you must solve a system of differential equations correctly to determine when and where to place your foot. If you get any of them wrong, you fall on your face. The fact that we do not often fall on our faces shows that anyone can solve differential equations. This is funny but not entirely a joke. It speaks to the tension between the analytical and the practical. It also says that what we learn from experience is every bit as valid as the theory (I would say in most cases, experience is more valid than theory).
I have learned more from listening to others and playing myself, but I still find the theory interesting and useful.
I hear what you' are saying about playing with feeling and all that but the thread you are referring to has the topic "which harp, which position?" and it was thusely a "theory question" which the folks here tried to weigh in into and answer it by the best of their knowledge. If you want a thread called "playing with feeling and syncopation" you should start one and stay away from the ones you don't like if they sadden you. The MBH forum has more than enough room for both kinds of threads, why make it into a controversy?
If I like to think about theory I check out a hvyj or Michael Rubin thread and if I want some soul and feeling I go to Walter tore or frank. Alterning between the two make me see more of the whole picture (I hope).
Have a great day, you and everyone! ---------- Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
@ noodles - It seems to be implied by the title of the post. I was also speaking generally, as I've seen that idea come up time and again in various threads. ----------
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 3:04 PM
JInx wrote: I don't get this "draw the line" business at all. The harmonica itself is designed based on principles found....guess where? Yes, sorry to lay it on you but, principles found in the study of western music theory. You can't get away from it. -- No one is trying to get away from anything here. I certainly don’t deny where the harmonica came from.
Sammy, you can see which button you are pressing on a trumpet. I can't see which hole I'm playing and I don't care as long as it sounds right. So, yes I guess I'm instrumentally illiterate.
---------- Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
@sammyharp The line I’m drawing is inside of myself. I have decided (for myself) that what is most important is the emotion that goes into it – not the theory. I have also said that theory is important, it’s just not “everything.” That’s it. It’s not ME vs YOU.
@Pistolcat wrote: thread you are referring to has the topic "which harp, which position?"
No, it’s not what I'm referring to. I admit, I may have eluded to this in that thread, but it's not that thread that inspired me on this. I’ve been thinking about this for awhile.
@Pistolcat also wrote::If you want a thread called "playing with feeling and syncopation" you should start one and stay away from the ones you don't like if they sadden you.
That’s the spirit.
@Pistolcat also wrote: If I like to think about theory I check out a hvyj or Michael Rubin
I’m not familiar with hvyj’ work. I have a lot of respect for Michael Rubin. I’ve watched just about all of his videos on YouTube and yes, I have learned from him. --
I attacked no person, only a trend I sense. An attitude.
I don't believe theory is largely what you state it is. Knowledge of theory is great! It can easily cut down time and frustration of saying "how," and trying over and over until you get it. Is there something wrong with hearing a passage and being able to figure it out much quicker (because you had more tools)?
I guarantee you there are more great artists -in any field- who had been taught knowledge of their craft as opposed to artists who had just figured everything out themselves. It is hard for me to even understand that type of suggestion. How does someone simply learn everything on their own?
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 4:35 PM
There has got to be a healthy balance in all things as a general rule IMO. Sure, most of the great blues man of the past couldn't even spell theory, let alone understand it. It was a "trial and error" and mostly evolved through "feeling".
Music theory is no different than any other type of theory or academia. In my profession, there were colleagues who had amazing knowledge, but practically were horrible clinicians. Conversely the opposite was noted, some colleagues who struggled through the "theory", but were outstanding clinicians. Theory is just a tool. Playing by "feel" and "heart" is a skill. Having one or the other will make you a good player, but having BOTH may make you a GREAT player. Just my two cents
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 5:17 PM
Coming from a jazz background I appreciate harmonic complexity. I like knowing what I'm singing/playing and how it fits it in with the overall structure of the tune. But if I had to come down hard on either side I would say that feel is more important. I've just listened to too many players and singers who are amazing technicians but don't really have any soul (soul here meaning feeling, heart, emotion), so their playing leaves me cold.
Miles Dewar wrote: I don't believe theory is largely what you state it is -- I don’t recall nor can I cite anywhere where I stated in any manner what I believe theory is. I have said “it’s not everything.” I use theory all the time. What I don’t do is make it the Rubicon to be crossed for Blues harp. I don’t speak ill of anyone who applies theory or doesn’t. For me, I know what it is and what it is not.
I don’t mind a tussle or two in an active debate, (I enjoy the mental jousting), but this is not the first time my position is being misstated.
I respect all of your thoughts and opinions. If someone wants to challenge what I have said, then please, be accurate. That’s all I ask. Don’t question my motivations or put a slant on it. I assure everyone that my heart’s in the right place on this.
I have not levied any personal attacks or misquoted anyone, nor has anyone suggested that I have.
---------- Noodles
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 5:45 PM
@Noodles, I apologize, as I did misrepresent your statements. Reviewing both our posts has assured me of this. I should have paid more attention, because there was a clear statement where you addressed your position.
Again, I apologize for the misrepresentation. I assure you that it wasn't deliberate. Simply a moment of lazy-reading.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 7:20 PM
the main component to getting good is spending time with it. Most players here are hobbyists. They have other priorities in their lives that make the harp a fun thing but not something they will devote their lives to. I think, from what I have observed on these forums is the technical talk is satifying to many of these types. Why? Maybe it takes less time to figure out a technical thing than to develop a musical sound that is pleasing, flowing, mindless. I say whatever floats your boat.
I don't awe at any musician anymore. I simply see them as doing what they do and what they do is their thing and what I do is my thing. Nobody can own all the things. Find your inspiration and go with it. Personally I am all about musicality. I still don't know a scale or what notes I play in the sense that I can say I am playing a 4 draw right now and such but I know every inch of the harp musically. By this I mean I know how it sounds and what I want to get out of it I do mindlessly. This has come about from countless hours of playing without thought and being driven to make music my main focus in life. My job, wife, friends, where I live, all are built around having the freedom to my music without presures/interuptions/outside control/concerns with what others think of it. I play for me and have no desire to turn my instruments into math equations. To my ears I make nice sounding music. That is all that matters. Do I say my way is right? I sure do. I say it is right for me. You need to figure out what is right for you. Making statements like one has to this and that or will never get to musical greatness is BS. It basically shows how incompetent an artist the person making them is. They are preaching a cut and paste approach to art. Art in the pure sense is not at all about rules but simply what turns you on and off. Most players aim to please others and that in turn makes them feel good. I have been there and done that. I am thankful I have come back to the very first moment I had with an instrument-pure personal pleasuer with no concerns of what others think. Follow your path and be thankful if you have one to follow! Walter
Noodles: I think it is great you have drawn a line in the sand so to speak. If we all follow our hearts it will lead us to the right place. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
My ear is good enough that if you give me the key I can usually figure something out, but not good enough that I can just pick out the key without picking up a few harps to give it a listen. Having enough theory to know what key I need to be in when the band is in C makes it easier for me to get on with making happy noises. There are lots of other little things like that for me in theory.
There was a study done, I think it was on some group in Africa. They didn't have a word for the color pink. The anthropologists showed them a series of colored cards. Then they showed them another series of cards and asked them which cards were repeats. Because they didn't have a word for pink they didn't differentiate between pink and red, so they could remember that they'd seen some shade of red, but they couldn't remember which shade. (If you showed them both the red and the pink together they could still see one was lighter than the other, but without a word it didn't stick in their memory.) You may have the same experience if someone asks you whether you prefer eggshell or cream colored paint- you can tell they are different on the paint card, but learning the names makes them stand out.
Music theory can give us some of those words for music. It's also great for communicating with other musicians. It can also be very frustrating to learn. I took some theory classes years ago in college and didn't do very well in them. It wasn't until years later, when I got back into music, that they sank in. I think they can be overwhelming. When I'm playing, I'm still thinking of the note in my ear that I want to play most of the time. Some basic theory so you can count the beat and know when the chord changes are coming is really important too, especially if you are doing different progressions in your set.
Well said Nacoran! FYI, there are as many cultural variations in what constitutes a "color" as for what constitutes a "note". "Music Theory" is simply the language we have developed to talk about our conception of "notes" in Western culture. If one is versed in this theory, one may still be "theory illiterate" when trying to understand the music of a different culture. I'm finding this to be the case as I currently explore the music of West Africa and the southern fringes of the Sahara... ---------- ====== I S A A C ======
It may surprise you guys to know I am on the feeling and tone side of the line. I've been playing harp close to 30 years. Although a little theory trickled in along the way,enough to play in bar gigs, it was not until I was 30 (I'm 42 now) that I decided to solidify my understanding of theory.
One day, 5 minutes before a theatre show started the conductor explained a singer was sick and his understudy had a different range. We would be playing the song in the key of A tonite.
"What key are we in now?" I asked. You could have heard a pin drop.
I decided to get off my butt and learn to communicate with professional musicians. I asked every musician I knew question after question. I asked the same question of many musicians to insure the answer was always the same.
It may also surprise you that jazz theory is intense for me. I understand a lot, but actually take jazz lessons now because I am sick of pretending when I do jazz gigs (which I have been playing since I was 17).
What I have a good solid handle on is Meat and Potatoes theory. By that I mean I can listen to a pop song (defined as anything but jazz or classical)figure out the key, figure out if it falls into the category of major, minor and blues and know how to play it in any position on the harp, although I almost always choose 1st, second or third position, because in my opinion, it sounds better most of the time!
To be continued, my message is actually too long to go through.
My understanding of theory has led me to understand other musicians' understanding. The level I understand is the level of a bare bones beginner on ANY other instrument! At least a beginner who gigs. I do notice that party jammers do not know the key or the chords. I notice singer songwriters are often the same.
I went to many harp seminars. The teacher often would talk in theory jargon, "So when you go to the flat third..blah,blah"
The students hand would raise up. "What's a flat third?"
"Oh,that's theory. You don't need theory." Said the teacher and then went on, "So when you go to the flat third.."
It occurred to me that to the teacher, he didn't even notice he was speaking in theory. He didn't even consider it theory because he UNDERSTANDS it. He didn't go to school for it. The teacher was lucky enough to have an aptitude for harp and music in general. He was gigging after a year of playing. Soon, he found himself in clubs where the other musicians would say, "Shuffle in G! Come in on the five!" and by experimenting and using his ear, he figured out what it meant. He did it without a lot of thought because he was gigging constantly and was immersed in the language. Therefore, to him, it is not theory. Theory is stuff you learned in music school.
Since it wasn't theory, all of the students must understand it instinctually as well, right? So he continues to teach, talking about theory and never explaining it to the lost student who blanks out for the rest of the lesson.
I didn't want to be that guy. So I began to teach theory to my students and found I could explain it in a way that made sense to most of my students. Even students who started off with difficulty but stuck with it were speaking theory within a short time.
I teach my private students techniques. We learn blues songs and other songs note for note. We work on timing. We improvise. We talk philosophy. And I teach them theory.
I stick to theory in Meat and Potatoes because imo (and I haven't watched most of Adam's videos)no one is starting at the bare bones beginning of theory and building upon it one step at a time. But lots of people are teaching how to bend. It takes me 2 hours to make one of those stupid 15 minute videos. I do not get paid for it except in students who take from me because of it or those who buy my merch. I just cannot devote more than 1 video a week. In almost 2 years, I have gotten to the place most of my private students get to after 3 months of lessons, not including techniques, improv, philosophy and checking for mastery of everything. What I am saying is Youtube is dreadfully slow. It is unlikely I will say what I want to say before I die, so I am sticking to one subject, theory.
But don't let that fool you. I am all about tone, techniques, energy, feeling, etc.
I believe the line doesn't have to be drawn. Go after both!
Thanks for the kind words, all who mentioned my stuff.
For what I’m about to write… Some will criticize, others will make jokes and some may get defensive.
I thank all of you who have taken the time to respond to this thread so far. It has ignited a bit of passion, but that’s OK. I also received a private email by a former MBH member, who apparently continues to monitor what is written here. He took the time to send me his unsolicited views and I sensed his strong passion as well. He may be on the outside, but he still cares.
When I began to write my thoughts that started this thread it just flowed from me- No clever musings, only my feelings. What I am learning by reading your words is that there is a passion in all of you. That’s a good thing. And, to a large extent (I believe) it’s that passion that moves your playing forward.
Playing harp can be so frustrating at times because you’re passionate about it. You’ve got to fight for it-every inch of the way. Whether your weapon of choice is playing by ear, using a lot of theory or doing it over and over again until you get it right--it all matters and it all works. You are all willing to do those things and put in the time it takes. You’re dedication is apparent and I applaud you for it.
As Michael Rubin stated so eloquently in his teacher story – sometimes the knowledge of theory is taken for granted, leaving others feeling overwhelmed and confused.
I’ve been a mentor my whole life and bringing along those who are new to this is what it’s all about. They are here because they want to be, not because they have to be. And the tradition continues on.
---------- Noodles
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 10:02 PM
HarpNinga wrote: I love the irony of being in awe with a list of very technically advanced players...
I fail to see the irony here. The use of the word “irony” implies that I am attempting to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning. I cited a short list of players, that yes, I am in awe of.
I am not in awe of a player merely because he is technically advanced--- Far from it. There are hundreds of technically advanced types around the world, perhaps thousands, I don’t know, but it’s a very short list of players that stop me in my tracks when they play. Maybe that’s the whole point of this thread.
---------- Noodles
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 9:59 PM
Interesting thoughts noodles. I think its interesting that the players you metioned all have incredible technique, but all play with LOTS of feeling. These players have a largely varying theory knowledge. I don't think they would be able to play with such convincing musicality if they didn't have considerable amounts of theory knowledge and technique. The more adapt you are at controlling what comes out of your instrument, the easier it is to express yourself. The hardest part though, is letting go of it all when you perform. Learn all you can in the practice room, then forget it all and just PLAY when you perform.
On the flip side, I don't think theory can replace having musical ideas you want to express. I think theres a lot of players out there that have great technique and understanding of theory, but have a lack of ideas to express. These are the players that sound too technical and non-musical.
If you have the music in you its gonna come out. I don't think theory changes that. It just helps to get the music to come out more easily.
So, I guess I come down on the theory and technique vs. feeling and emotion at 50/50. one is just as important as the other.
@ noodles - If I've offended you, that was not my intention. I'm not trying to make anything 'me vs. you'. Just trying to have a decent discussion.
I really havent read all the posts here due to my ignorance about all the tech/theory stuff confusing me, BUT...Sarge hit the nail on the head nice and simple.
Blimey there are some touchy folk on this forum, I get the feeling reading some of the responses to Noodles origonal post that folk are being deliberatly obtuse in there interpretation of his standpoint just to get into an argument,what's the point in that there is enough friction in life without creating it, the fact is he is'nt against Theory Per Se, just the focus on it above gut feeling and passion, who could argue with that? As in all of life these things require a balance, I wasted at least two years making almost no progress at all just blowing the same patterns over and over again It was theory that pulled my viewpoint back and allowed me to start to see the bigger picture of how the music works. Adam Gussow and this forum and the knowlege they have provided are the reason I have stuck with it and why I am now more in love with my Harp than ever, that's a gift for which I will be forever gratefull so lets not bicker let's give support and thanks for the fact that we all have membership of a wonderfull community, we are musicians to a greater of lesser extent and that makes us all very lucky. ENJOY!
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2012 1:33 AM
The guys who stop you in your tracks are all big into theory and the like. They don't just play by feel. They learned both the science and art of music and use that to create wonderful music.
Take the theory out of their backgrounds and they can't play most the stuff they do and get the same impact.
Heck, had your list had someone like Little Walter, it still would have been sketchy. He was also a guitar player and obviously had a better than average understanding of music than the average harp player. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Mods Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
There are different ways to know theory. Most learn it like a math equation. Another way, which I learned and continue to learn, is via ear and discovery. My mentors- Sonny Terry, Louisiana Red, Lightning Hopkins, and such- learned this way. I was drawn to them because this is my natural way of learning. I met Roy Smeck when I was a teenager. Look him up. He was the king of theory. He wanted me in his band and said he would teach me the theory. I was so excited to be around such a great musician. He said I had all the parts and the theory would round me out. At the same time I met Lousiana Red. He just played and told me to come in when I felt it. I moved in with Red. End result is I can play what I want to hear. That should be the goal I think? How you get there is a personal thing and to preach any particular way, is the only way is just plain incorrect. Walter
PS: I play guitar, bass, drums, keys, as well as harp. I learned all these via discovery and ear. So to say if one knows guitar they have a better handle on theory than just a harp player may or may not be true. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
It's just plain silly to get all bent out of shape cause some guys want to determine if a tune uses "a major third, (nooooo it’s a minor)". Major/minor tonality is so basic, being able to communicate it verbally is a blessing. ---------- Sun, sun, sun Burn, burn, burn Soon, soon, soon Moon, moon, moon
I don't think that you have to draw a line between the two. I understand your point that you use theory, but that you don't think it is the key to good performance.
You are concerned that the emotion of music is being lost in theoretical nit picking. At times I share that concern.
I think that because the forum is written conversation, it tends to foster long discussions of theory. If we were at a jam or a gig to play music, there would be brief discussion, then we would play, which is what it is all about.
When I am playing, I never think about the hole, the name of the note, or the interval. I think of what tone I want to hear. I play intuitively, by feel, without inserting note names.
I believe that this helps a lot in improvisation in most blues, rock, folk, and country music, and also in blues based jazz. It helps you copy melody lines by ear, or play harmony by ear. On the few songs I do have to study, I find what positions I like for the song, and practice. Sometimes I will switch harps for different effects. On most of the types of music noted above, I can pick up on it very quickly.
I don't consider this language-less approach to playing music as being "instrumentally illiterate". The instrument is for making music, not talking, writing, or reading. Perhaps the inability to talk notes and theory is being "notationally illiterate"?
If you want to communicate verbally or in writing with other musicians about music, theory is very useful and necessary. It is helpful to communicate verbally and in writing about positions, holes, intervals, note names, and scales. So I continue to study theory, intervals, and positions to communicate and to improve my music.
Fundamentally I believe in playing with feeling and not interrupting the joy of making music with thoughts about what note/interval/hole I am using. But theory can inform your playing and improve communication with other musicians.
I have met quite a few musicians that lament that while they have extensive theory knowledge and can sight read, they struggle to play without sheet music, and they are unable to improvise. Then there are the many highly skilled musicians who understand theory and improvise with feeling.
Theory can help you improve your music and communicate with other musicians, but theory alone is just an academic exercise.
Ultimately it is about playing the music. ----------
Marty the Zebra: Okay! You all have your side, and I'll have mine. And, if you need me, I'll be over here! On the FUN side of the island, havin' a good ol' time. A great ol' time! A GREAT ol' time. A yabba-dabba-doo ol' time! WILMA!
Alex the Lion: That's not the fun side. THIS is the fun side! This is the fun side where we're gonna have a great time surviving until we go home! Whoo! I love this side; this side's the best! That side STINKS! You're on the JERSEY side of this cesspool!
Melman the Giraffe: Well, now what do we do?
Alex the Lion: Don't worry Melman, I have a plan to get us rescued.
Music is a language, one of the few universal languages. I have listened to some people speak publicly who put me to sleep, some who inspired/influenced me deeply. I have read books that were so boring I could not finish them, others I couldn't put down.
Likewise in music. There are composers who play it and couldn't write it and composers who write it and couldn't play it. Then there are musicians/artists who can take what is written and play it in a way that speaks louder/deeper than the music they are reading. I suppose since it is a universal language each person has options on the best way for them to communicate it. In each of our native languages we learn to speak before we read. I think theory would be very difficult without being able to play by ear if only in a basic way. After that it seems that both theory & playing by ear compliment each other as easily as the spoken and written word communicate our native languages.
When Bart returns home from a Junior Campers meeting Homer asks "How was jerk practice, boy? Did they teach you how to sing to trees and build crappy furniture out of useless wooden logs?" The chair that Homer is sitting on then breaks and he declares "D'oh! Stupid poetic justice."
When I was a college freshman, Muddy Waters came to town with Jerry Portnoy (his harp player) to perform at Red Creek, a popular blues club across the street from my school. I had already been playing about five years at that time.
During his show, Muddy spotted me hiding in a dark corner of the bar as I was trying to quietly play along with his band. When they went on a break, he happened to sit next to me at the bar. "Are you the harp player I saw?" he asked. "Damn” (I thought to myself), he saw me". "Yes sir, that was me." He put his hand on my shoulder, spun around on his bar stool and yells out, "Jerry!... Jerry!...Bring'm up in the last set." We did a jam tune to close the night. I'll never forget it.
Muddy is gone now, but Jerry just keeps on going. Today, he plays and he teaches.
Here's a few of his thoughts that may be relevant to this thread. I can really relate to this.
---------- Noodles
Last Edited by on Jul 12, 2012 2:35 PM
I like what Jerry Portnoy has to say, and can relate. I'm one of the old guys who picked up a harp and tried to make it work with the music I heard from Canned Heat, Mayall, & Butterfield. After awhile I absorbed it, figured out what key harp "went with" what key song, and spent a lot of time with blues players. I had no idea whether it was 12 bars, 8 bars, or 16 bars; never heard of a I chord, IV chord, etc, but managed to get to play out quite a bit over the years, in both duos and full bands.
Now I don't play out anymore, but still love the harp and woodshed a lot. I've learned a bit of theory since, and it has helped a lot.
But I also feel like a beginner again. I'll record something and listen back, see what needs work. Guess what, it ALL needs work: tone, hitting the bends right on instead of sliding into them, and so on.
I'm likely a better player now than back in the day, because I now know more, but I'm less confident because I know how much more there is to know. Dunno where that puts me in the sand, but whatever works for each of you is all good with me.
Our stories are very similar. I recently got back to the basics. Hands, tongue-blocking, TB bends, the whole bit. If you haven't already tried it, use a tuner to dial in your bends. I downloaded a free one. I tune my harps and practice my TB bends with it. Bending with a tuner can make a player humble. ---------- Noodles
I'm drawing a line in the sand, We all play what we feel in my band, We're got our own bags, They call us the Shaggs, We're the feelingest band in the land!
I don't understand the sentiment that "theory is detrimental to emotionality." If theory says you should play draw 4 here, well, of course you don't simply just play draw 4...you play draw 4 with FEELING.
I don't understand the sentiment that "theory is detrimental to emotionality." If theory says you should play draw 4 here, well, of course you don't simply just play draw 4...you play draw 4 with FEELING.
Last Edited by on Jul 11, 2012 2:35 PM
