The Yale hotel in Vancouver that in the past was a decent blues bar is undergoing renos..here is a clip of what the owner says...
"We found that the people that really enjoy the blues are getting old, [and] we can't survive off what those people are drinking. So our target over the last year or so has been, as the night goes on, to put on a band that gets a little bit younger [audience]. We think we can survive into the future if we make some subtle changes."
I think this speaks to the point I was trying to make in the "hip hop producer" thread. I think we are at another "generational" turning point for the blues, and I'm quite curious to see how it plays out...
They just need to change their menu a bit to keep up with the times. Metamucil Sunrise could be very popular. Maalox could be served on tap. Stewed Prunes with strained peas.
Maybe put in a hair replacement shop.
Put in walkers on the stage--add handrails on the pisser. . . ----------
I spent 30 years most every night of the week in some sort of club either playing, listening, or trying to hound the manager for a gig. Last night my wife and I went to a restraunt/bar that has live music on weekends. As we werer being seated a guy with a glass of beer made a dramtatic curtsey to have us go first. Alcohol talking again.......... My soul tells me nowadays to avoid gigs with drunks and smokers. I think my club days are basically done. There is nothing more boring than being around a bunch of drunks making fools of themselves while they think they are on top of their game. I envision a future for music that is in bright, clean, sober, smoke free environments. I use to play the sleeping lady cafe in fairfax california every monday as a part of mark naftlins blue monday show. Bob wier of the grateful dead owned the cafe. It was smoke free, alcohol free, and served organic foods and beverages. This was back in the late 70's. That experience has stuck with me to this day. People grooved and made sense when you talked to them. It is like if I go to a bar I either sit by myself in silence or get loaded so as to "be at par" with the crowd. I remember going to an after hours one night in austin at a world famous musicians house. They were so coked out and thinking they were at a super level of human existance. Being straight, I saw them as not making any sense and left. Getting loaded distances people. How many times have I had grown men crying a bucket of tears about their lives and confessing they are gonna change their ways. The next night they are back and doing the same stuff..... I have been an active participant in this crazy dysfunctional culture for many years as a wasted soul. Now that I am straight I realize I have had my fill of bars. Life is too short to get loaded, distance myself from my heart, feel connected via disconnection to others that are doing the same, and all of us are just plain disconnected and isolated. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Oldwailer, or a breakfast buffet with an early show! :)
I've heard the servers at the open mic we go to talking about trying to get a younger crowd in. Of course, a lot of the younger people are broke in this economy. The bar actually got closed down last year for serving minors. They are under new ownership and are trying hard not to repeat the same mistakes, but it's a small venue.
We're a college town. There is no room to do food, and with ID checks you lose a lot of the younger crowd before you even decide what music to play. There was New York Times article on the declining night life in Albany. They said what was really killing it was the tighter bans on what legislators could take in the way of gifts. It used to be lobbyists could take them out to fancy restaurants. Then you have the constant battle over live vs. some DJ. I have a drummer friend who can't get a band. They've flat out told him he was too old. It's enough to give you the blues.
I just know what I like and hip hop it aint,there are some live blues here in tennessee and yes old folks like me dominate but there are some younger folks who are getting into blues,after all its pure american music although you europeans and aussies play it very well
I guess I'm really glad that I live where I live. Last night, I went out and saw a 'bunch of older guys' play Blues. The band kicked ass. The place was packed with people ranging from their 20's to their late 50's. There were a lot of pretty girls drinking and dancing. I played some and had a real good time.
I ran into a harp playing buddy of mine last night. It was odd to see him. He is 35. His geezer filled blues band didnt have a gig. His band hasn't had a weekend off in months. He is gigging three or four nights a week locally. He could probably work more, but staying out until 1am takes a toll on a person's body when they are working during the day. I've subbed for him in the past. I don't get rich but I end up with spending money for a few days.
The owners of this club like Blues for the crowd it brings in. The people tend to be more mellow. The owners get hassled less by the city. The cops dont have to patrol the area as much. There are less fights because the crowd isnt filled with drunken idiots. They don't have to hire as many security guards. They get to keep their liquor license. Opportunity is everywhere. You have to find it.
Overall, the band did pretty well. The bar did well. Everyone had fun.
I'm going to go to see a harp player beatboxing next weekend. I will probably spend my entire week trying to find one of those kind of shows, if they exist.
walter...I too don't drink any more, never smoked or cared to be around it, and know what you mean about being around those who have more than 2 to relax. So I don't play the club scene.
I think this is one of the draws of busking. Open/clean air.
However, having said all that, I am fortunate to live in a town with an active blues association that does a lot to promote, display and develope blues appreciation. We have lots of good blues talent in my area. Folks love it around here.
the age thing is well represented at local jams and some venues but there is a definite wall when it comes to booking gigs. we've been told- in our 50's and 60's- that we won't "hit the demographic" of a particular place. yet when we do get a gig or play a set, we get a great response.
funny thing, when i was but 4 years old, an old guy turned me on to harp and even some blues. he was in his 70's. my gramps.
this i suppose is the way of the world. economy sucks so it must be the older peoples' fault. ---------- http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
The younger crowd, 20's, early 30's. I work with 'em tho' I am "old". Did you ever see a few seconds of one of the "Jackass" movies? I think there's 3 of 'em now, they're so effing popular, on video. During breaks a bunch of the 'kids' will sit around the break room TV and laugh their asses off at that shit. I will not post any of it, I can't stand it, but force yourself to watch one minute, just one, somewhere in one of those movies and you will fully understand what the F! is wrong with our culture, and the nature of the toilet we're being flushed down.
Last Edited by on Nov 15, 2011 4:56 PM
It's the last outpost, MaDMax style, all music has been taken over by house, hip-hop, rap, techno, GaGa and all the other robotic crap that the "young" generation, that's so devoid of heart and soul that it might as well be elevator music, likes.
It's a warm climate, partly because you can't play guitar and harp with mittens on, and party because the sweat and steam and heat...that is part and parcel of the blues...the real blues....the blues that spoke for an entire disenfranchised people and was so powerful that it inspired a whole new movement caled rock and roll, has to be present as the music is created.
It's a small place, and it feels so familiar, full of geezers drinking straight liquor and beer. But the music .........ah the music....
i recall a clip from the old days about Elvis and nigger music, yes what a shock it is now to us who liked Elvis the pelvis, times are changing, hip hop, rap is crap, sooner or later something will hit harder than we imagine, harp and blues will always have a following, sometimes more sometimes less.
a lot of blues players i`ve talked too in years gone by seemed stuck in the whole trip of 50`s blues.they put down british blues bands ,jimi hendrix etc. i`ve been saying 40 yrs.what hendrix is putting down is modern blues an he was so far ahead of everyone else it still is modern,nobody has put out anything better...maby it was too good for most to play on it...
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 2:49 AM
I'm amazed how much negativity this thread contains; then again, I'm not amazed. But maybe there's an alternative to saying "The young suck" and "The good old days were great" and "Thing'll never be as good as they once were."
Maybe it's possible to find a balanced point where, as you age, you provide wisdom and balance to The Young, manifest no hatred or resentment towards them, encourage them to discover their own voices, and remain capable of being pleasantly surprised by something fresh and new that they create.
My dad was like that.
I was listening to my iPod the other day and came across Sugar Blue's cover of James Cotton's "One More Mile." Amazing update: his arrangement of the song is one powerful way of keeping the blues alive. Play it here by clicking "Play direct from Sugar Blue":
Beware of those who decry the Youth! Somebody's feeling old. I don't have time for feeling old. I'm too busy enjoying this one life I've got.
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2011 4:14 AM
"Beware of those who decry the Youth! Somebody's feeling old. I don't have time for feeling old. I'm too busy enjoying this one life I've got"
Last time I checked the thread was entitled "geezers killing the blues". Call out the geezers and they tend to get pissed off, i'd say that's as about as "youthful" a reaction as you'll see.
My two biggest pet peeves concerning the blues and communicating with contemporary blues musicians/fans:
1. When people conveniently forget that almost all the great blues musicians worshiped by the blues minions of today hit it big in their 20's and 30's...not their 60's and 70's. Robert Johnson himself died at 27!!!
2. It is ignored that the blues greats worshiped today were huge innovators for their time. Willie Dixon blew the doors off of how blues music was written, LW helped popularize the amped harp sound, etc.
FWIW, my 3rd biggest pet peeve is when people ignore how sophisticated the early blues players were in regards to using music to make money. Howlin Wolf had a formal music education...Willie Dixon tried writing hits...LW would play pop guitar to pay the bills...
The rose-colored glasses of middle-aged and middle-income white men are a double edges sword. While they pay the bills for many a blues artist, they are also the single most limiting factor in the the future success of blues music.
I've written about this before, but I don't get the reluctance of contemporary blues fans to meet the next generation of musicians/fans at least part way. Everyone would benefit from this. I see it much the same way someone like John Mayer or SRV opened the door to a younger audience finding the blues accessible and then digging further into the genre.
This isn't as harsh in the harmonica world as say, guitar. We tend to be a little kinder to those who are a little more rock than blues...at least in the harmonica circles I run in. Guitar players used to absolutely DESTROY John Mayer, Robben Ford, and Joe Bonamassa. I don't know what changed, but they are now embraced by guitar players for what they are doing.
I think the perception of old meets new is starting to turn, though. I've only been playing harp 9yrs, but have been following harmonica music for closer to 15. There was a time where even using the word Popper would have had the author flamed to a point of death threats. Now, other harp players don't really get riled up.
If you look beyond harmonica, bands like the Black Keys are really helping the cause (big picture, anyways). Hopefully someone starts doing that and including harmonica. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas VHT Special 6 Mods
Everything takes time to get accepted. When I started out in the 70's, there were still the folk music guys that poo-pooed ANYTHING amplified, much like what Bob Dylan did when he went electric. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I echo what Joe_L said about being lucky to live where he lives. I envy him every time I've heard mention of who he's gone out to see, or which band has allowed him as a sit-in. ---------- Ricky B http://bushdogblues.blogspot.com RIVER BOTTOM BLUES--a crime novel for blues fans due out 2012
I just got hammered by a local blues musician for sharing a YouTube of me doing a solo song (and sharing what I had been up to the last year while I was away from the forum)...I don't even think this person watched it...they just instantly chewed me out (virtually) for being fake and pretentious.
Yeah, you'll have that to an extent anywhere you go. Guitar player here in town told my band leader he'd come be in the band and play tasty riffs and that way he can get rid of the ridiculous harmonica stuff. Well...I'm still playing in the band that got voted best local rock band of 2011, and he's now playing Jimmy Buffett tunes in a band he formed...so... ---------- Hawkeye Kane
You can look at the pro-modern thing two ways. You can say, hey, the old guys are harping on me about not sounding like the classics. They need to get with the times. Or, you can say, well, this debate isn't a new thing. They argued with their elders the same way. The give and take is what makes music evolve. Let's face it, sometimes the reason kids listen to music is precisely because it makes 'adults' uncomfortable. I think that's one of the big reasons music styles go out of style.
If we convince all the 'old geezers' to listen to 'our' music it won't be ours anymore. (I was mortified to learn my mother liked a Guns & Roses song, even if it was a ballad.) And for every person who wants to modern there will be someone who thinks it's cool to be retro, and there will be someone else who is retro just because they want to relive something from their past. There are no wrong answers, at least as far as personal tastes.
I suspect there is more money to be made with something modern, although, sadly, playing modern doesn't mean the 'kids' will like you. You'll run into the people who don't like you just because you are old and they want to rebel against their parents generation. You can't do anything about that without plastic surgery.
Even when I say I want to be 'modern'- use loops and effects, there is still a part of me pulled back to what I grew up on. I hate to say this, because it makes me feel old, but there are retro grunge bands out there, so if I do grunge I'm not being modern. (I don't have the voice for grunge anyway!)
Ninja, that video was too funny! I don't know if you got my email the other day. I really liked those loop tracks.
I guess I qualify as a geezer by age. Geezers do often provide much of the support of blues music, and organize blues societies. Not all geezers limit their support to old school blues. Many appreciate diverse styles. Our local blues society supports a variety of local bands including Kilborn Alley (young, but very old school music with modern lyrics), The Impalas (Jump and Texas blues with original songs), and the Sugar Prophets (blues rock jams with original songs).
I like innovative harp. Little Walter was an innovator, and by use of amplification and horn lines, had great impact on blues harmonica. He did not stay with old school country blues.
Popper is a great player, though I wish he didn't tend to return to the same high speed, high end riffs so often. However, it is part of his signature style that caught people's attention and made him famous. He writes good songs and sings well, too. I never understood all the negative fuss about him on harmonica lists. If he doesn't appeal to you, don't listen.
I only use the occasional overblow (mainly the 6 overblow), but support the efforts of players who utilize the technique musically and play fluently.
Chris M. taught me to overblow at a Filisko workshop at the St. Louis SPAH in 2008, though Michael Peloquin had laid a groundwork previously by giving me some pointers when he was in town here.
I don't have ambitions of playing diatonic chromatically, but respect those who seek to take it that far. Howard Levy is amazing, I love his work with the Flecktones, but I also still like old school blues. You don't have to pick one or the other.
I will probably never loop or harp box, and aside from an occasional performance of unaccompanied harp, never be a one man band like Deak or Adam, yet I enjoy and support these approaches.
I think too much energy is expended debating traditional blues vs. modern blues. I also don't like the rigid thinking that pigeonholes styles/genres of music. I think that blues, rock, country, folk, bluegrass, and any other label for roots music should not be labeled as either/or, excluding the middle (blends of genres).
If we must categorize, I like the approach of scaling these labels, such as from 1 to 10, to what extent is a song blues/or rock/or country, etc.
Aristotelian bipolar "either/or" logic is not really useful in this context, and just leads to contention.
Anyway, I like all kinds of music to a certain extent, and if I listen to something new and give it a chance, and find that a genre doesn't suit my taste, I don't think it is my business to criticize what others may like. I certainly liked music my parents hated, though later I came to appreciate what they had liked. I will listen to all kinds of musical expression, and then support the kinds of music that appeal to my geezer taste by attending shows and buying songs.
I will play what music appeals to me. Many times that is outside the traditional boundaries of blues. I once lost a blues harmonica contest because one judge had rigid definitions as to what was blues, and he didn't like my jump blues chromatic song.
So keep on making music that inspires you, and don't take stylistic criticisms by others, young or old, to heart. ----------
My daughter(20yrs) just cant get into blues music, but i believe she would be a fan of Dylan if he was in the top charts now, she can play real basic harp in 1st pos but just cant get 2nd and dont wanna learn the basics, she plays guitar, piano, and understands the circle of 5ths which i dont, and seeing her perform at her university schedules is great, but she cant bend on a harp, which i find amusing. And she thinks my blues riffs are corny!!! go figure i say.
“I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on the youth of today.
All modern youth are reckless beyond words.
When I was young, we were taught to be respectful of elders, but youth today are the opposite: totally disrespectful.”
Hesiod (a contemporary of Homer) in 700 BC.
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“The young now love only luxury.
They have bad manners, contempt for authority, and show disrespect for their elders.
They lounge around when anyone enters the room.
They argue with their parents, interrupt everyone, scoff their food and terrorize their teachers.”
Socrates in 380 BC.
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“The world is passing through troubled times.
The young people of today think of nothing but themselves.
They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness to them.”
Peter the Hermit in 1274.
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The youth will always resist the generation which came before in the pursuit of the new and exciting and the older generation will always think they know better due to their greater experience of the world. One then becomes the other. Both positions are valuable.
I find it odd that some musicians can dismiss other forms of music as "crap" or "it's not music". As musicians we should all be interested in "music", all forms of it. It may or may not be to our own personal, subjective taste. However we should always be able to see the value in it, the creativity, the communication – and try to understand what it is, appreciate it for what it is and learn from it.
If anyone here as read the fantastic book Mindset by Carol Dewick, this conversation would be people of closed mindset versus an open mindset.
I always cringe that this ultimately gets discussed as an issue of age, but really, it is of mindset.
We can all point to many exceptions to this rule. For example, someone like Richard Hunter has a very open mindset to all things harmonica and he is probably near the average age of a lot of people on this forum (50's). Adam Gussow has an open mindset and he is in his 50's, I think. Heck, my buddy Buzz Krantz is old enough to be the best looking Santa I've ever seen and his mindset is wide open. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas VHT Special 6 Mods
I would bet most people that read my posts would place me in the old days were better camp. I listen to what catches my interest. I have no interest in fitting in with the crowd, promoting my career, and such. Those days are behind me like the days of only old fender amps and old fender and gibson guitars........ I like some punk, classical, new age, rock and roll, jazz, new wave, country, bluegrass, and any sound that makes me come to it. The old blues catches my ear more than any other music. rock and roll (classic 50's, 60-70's) is a close second, followed by classic bluegrass. The new, or as people here refer to modern blues doesn't catch my ear. Still I often hear little tibits that do and I feel them come out in my playing.
The decline of live music venues is just a plain fact. There is no talking and making believe it isn't true. Hopefully new ideas for listening to live music will appear soon that will be at least as vibrant as it was in the old days and is more healthy that back then (like no smoking and drinking at venues). By scene I mean the infastructure of small clubs for up and coming locals, larger venues for small touring acts. These 2 pieces were intrigal to keeping live music alive. They didn't serve food. Music was the reason to go there. All across the USA there were scenes like this and now one could have to travel a 1,000 miles between gigs. I hear the cd is soon to be extinct as well as retail music stores. I will have to buy up a ton of blank cds I reckon.
Times always change. Back when I was active in the clubs I literally was onstage, hanging with the bands, or hustling a gig, 7 nights a week. Today I would have no interest in that scene. It was marred with bad sound systems, ego driven managers/owners, sloppy wasted patrons, lots of travel in substandard vehicles most of the time, terrible accomodations, and very little $ to be had at the end of the day. That all worked for me then and it was a great time but today it sounds like a nightmare. I have been doing a lot of reflecting lately and I have concluded the good old days were good old days but the wouldn't work for me today.
Hopefully we all change as we age and don't purposely stay frozen in an era where our sound was a hit. I see that way too much today and back then. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
A couple of observations, Been reading about the chicago blues scene from the 40's to the 80's. They had to struggle to get gigs. The legends worked their asses of for little pay. When the young black audience went elsewhere, they had to go to Europe, eventually the young white audience turned back to them in the US. Texas and the northeast opened up for them in the 70's and 80's and it never had been before. The point, it always has been rough for most blues bands to get good paying gigs.
On a personal note, our blues bands has guys that don't really enjoy starting at 10, ending at 1 and getting only a modest pay, but that is what club owners want. Our solution, pitch our band as bringing in patrons from 8-11, at time when the bar would have sat empty anyway. Better yet, team up with a younger band and take the earlier sets, of course the take is lower that way.
This is what happens. Nothing last forever. Things always get lost in time. I believe the real problem is with people that want to play conventional blues and/or only do classic chicago blues songs. After I typed that I realize its not so much the songs you play. Its how you play them. If you play classic Chicago blues just the way it is on a record then for the most part nobody is going to care what your doing. You have to make what you do interesting with a fresh feel. Most blues harp players won't even begin to think about what that even means, let along do it. Thank God we have a forum to complain!
It may be the conviction of the players that is lacking. A lot of the geezer blues bands tend to sound (to me) like guys that are trying to play like the record of the ODBG's that is playing in their heads (playing transcribed licks, solos, etc). This is one step removed, IMO.
I've had a lot of fun playing keys/harmonica in blues bands with a contemporary conviction while still adhering to the general basics, creating improv in the moment that has some kind of spark. Vicki has noticed at times the younger people in the audience turning to watch a harmonica solo of mine and overhears them saying stuff like "Wow, look at that old guy. He sounds really good." I believe the young will still respond to something underlying the music if it is played in a fresh sense with a spark. ---------- The Iceman
I'll never be an "all things harmonica" kind of guy. Furthermore, I don't believe that I have to support other harmonica players, just because we play a common instrument.
As a kid, I listened to a lot of harmonica band recordings. Periodically, I will listen to other players that work outside Blues. I appreciate their tone, technique and proficiency on the instrument, but the music they play really isn't my musical cup of tea.
I've got a half dozen Jason Ricci CD's on my iPod. I've got three or four Carlos Del Junco CD's, too. I even have Brandon Bailey's fine recording. Does it make me "closed minded" if Rice Miller recordings get far more playing time?
The funny thing is that some of the guys that I learned from were young, when I was young. Most of us came from a rock background or an R&B background, we were being "open minded" when we listened to Blues. Most of our friends didn't really dig Blues.
It's interesting that some people come across a lot of players that "play like the old dead blues guys". I live in an area with a lot of fantastic blues players, but I don't hear a lot of players "playing like the records". I don't know too many players that can play like Robert Lockwood or Louis Myers. Drummers that play like Fred Below or SP Leary are few and far between.
Play the music you enjoy playing. Listen to what you like. Life is far too short to do anything else.
The reality is blues will never be as popular as a Gaga or a Kanye. All you can do is put the music out there and hope you grab 10% of the youth. For a lot of people music is like wallpaper. I think blues appeals to people that really like music,period,without pigeonholing it into genres. As an "old geezer" who's been in a band with guys half my age, I've made some interesting observations. I walk into a college area bar with the band. Initially ,I get apprehension. "What's this 55 y.o. guy doing here? After the first set,the attitude has totally changed. I'm not only accepted,but welcomed. Music is such a wonderful thing. It speaks across generations,it opens doors.
Again, music has a past present an future, none are better than the other, it is supposed to be art. Music recorded decades ago isn't irrelevant just because it's old just as modern music isn't good because it was recorded this morning. Exile on Main St. is 40 years old, is it no longer a great rock and roll record? The things that got me hooked on blues were the swinging behind the beat style of playing, the space that these great players left in the music, the interplay between instruments, the common human experience and emotion of the lyrics. I know a lot of young players who appreciate these same things. It has nothing to do with age. When you throw these qualities out by playing everything too loud, too fast, adding a bunch of effects that basically just conceal weather or not you can play, It's not even blues anyway. I believe that what you need to do justice to this form of music can't be taught, it has nothing to do with speed, technical ability or gadgets, it's something that you are born with (soul). And by the way I do a gig in Newport R.I. once in a while on Monday nights with a drummer friend who uses different hosts to front the band. Without fail the place is packed with people mostly under thirty who go nuts for the music and we just play straight ahead blues all night. They don't even seem to consider the fact that we are mostly old enough to be their Fathers. They appreciate honest tasteful blues. So the point I'm trying to make is that adding gadgets, speed,volume, pyrotechnics, doing away with dynamics is not really modernizing anything. Great music is fine as it is. You you don't hear any one complaining that Boston Pops need to add some wah-wah pedals to that Schubert piece. Why do they feel the need to screw with great blues?
History repeats itself. For the younger crowd, blues kinda moved over for jazz and rock n' roll in the 40's, 50's and into the late 60's. Then visible people like Clapton and Beck and Siegel-Schwall began reviving it, and the blues became popular again. At least it did to the youth who actually appreciated where jazz and rock originated from. I kinda think the same thing applies today in a lot of cases. Guys like John Mayer, Kenny Wayne Sheperd, and hell, even Cyndi Lauper of all people have delved into the blues and the youth are tuning into it again. Yes, Gaga and Kanye are wildly popular. But I can almost guarantee you that if Gaga released a blues album, it'd have a good chance outselling any of her other ones. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
I deliberately held back on posting in this thread for a while.
Some observations.
Interesting that not one person has discussed the OPs story further - I looked into it and followed a few links. The whole area is undergoing urban regeneration. The renovations in the bar include removing a false ceiling, adding dressing rooms for artists, improving the sound system and adding soundproofing. That's a pretty hefty financial commitment (not least because it means shutting for over a year) - and definitely a commitment to live music. it sounds like the kind of venue I'd be doing my utmost to support.
Read between the lines of that quote - sounds like the area gets a lot of older people in the early evening and they move on relatively early leaving a younger crowd. The venue is just reacting to maximise their profits - they're not a blues preservation charity. If the 'geezers' are unhappy about it, they need to support the venue. Buy more beer and stay later. It's nothing to do with the popularity of the music. It's to with fact that as you get older, a mug of horlicks (or whatever they drink in Canada) and an early bedtime gets more and more attractive with every birthday.
I don't know how hip hop got thrown into the pot again.
I really don't give a monkey's toss about what people choose to listen to. I probably listen to as much blues as I do hip hop - which frankly isn't much. There is a lot of crap hip hop out there; there's actually some very cerebral, peaceful, soulful, melodic hip hop too for those prepared to look. Amazing as it seems - young people do actually listen to other kinds of music too! (and I don't count myself as young - I'm approaching Geezerhood)
I predict that in 2040 - when I'll be 70 - people will still be listening to landmark artists like Nirvana, the Sex Pistols, Abba, Tupac, Public Enemy, Beyonce and Michael Jackson in the same way that there will still be people listening to Muddy, Wolf and the Sonny Boys. More than likely there'll be some new fangled kids music that the 'keep indie alive' geezers will decry as non-musical nonsense requiring no skill or talent.
I strongly doubt that the blues is dying.
I'm a biologist at heart. Mutation, hybridisation and natural selection are what drives evolution and a biological analogy seems to fit.
The shark is one of my favourite creatures. It survives to this day in a form that has relatively unchanged for nearly half a billion years. It is perfect at what it needs to be and it will go on being perfect for millions more years; evolution has merely fine-tuned it, the basic form is ancient. The blues is a shark.
Everything has a cycle in life, that includes night clubs. They close and new ones sometimes open. A lot of the touring acts they listed are dying or have passed. There are still a lot of people playing music. The graying of the audience is a pretty accurate assessment. Some clubs move their entertainment hours earlier to accomdate their patrons leaving the early bird dinner specials at Denny's. Others just close.
Fantastic post. I am being lazy, but in a recent thread someone made an excellent point about how the "greats" at their peak weren't experiencing the world we often dream of them having played in. I've said this endless times, but we look back at the early blues era, and things like 60's rock, with rose colored glasses.
@nacoran
I missed your comment about modern earlier, and totally forgot to thank you for the email!
I can really relate to being pulled. I sent you some rehearsal clips that definitely made liberal use of modern technology, but to be honest, the more solo stuff I do, the less I like using a lot of mods an filters. I literally obsess over delays and reverbs, though, lol.
When it comes down to it, I'd want to play in a band like the Allman Brothers or Butterfield Blues Band which is totally not modern.
Right now, I am trying really hard to write my own material...the music part is easy...the melody part is pretty easy...but lyrics are always a struggle. I find myself really defaulting to an Otis Taylor type sound...which has a lot of tones doing a lot of different things, but it is nowhere as hip-hop/modern as the Fat Possum R.L. Burnside stuff or 01 and 02 from Son of Dave.
If I have time this weekend, I'll post a full version of Hands on Your Stomach by Otis Taylor.
Any music can be good or bad,it`s the person listening,their choice,I like any music that has some soul coming out of the musican`s,there are good and bad musicans.so some music stinks,yes, blues too.i`ve heard enough blues bands that were more into the equipment and their clothes than really getting down and doin` it...
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2011 5:49 AM
I'll second HarpNinja's praise for Mrverylong's post. Yes: the blues is a shark. It ain't going nowhere.
I disagree slightly, though, about who will be looked back on in the year 2070. I think that some of the people currently on the blues scene will be looked back on that way--specifically, the "next" round of "last surviving bluesmen," people like Buddy Guy and Taj Mahal and--amazingly--the much younger Shemekia Copeland.
The question of succession WITHIN the blues scene is one that fascinates me. When B. B. King is gone, who takes his place at the top of the heap? The blues world has this need, manifested over many years, to have a "king" and "queen." This started back int he 1920s with Bessie Smith and W. C. Handy, who was called "the daddy of the blues" long before he wrote FATHER OF THE BLUES. B. B. King is arguably the last living bluesman to have had #1 hits for a black audience. Buddy Guy never did, nor did Taj Mahal. (Nor, for that matter, did Honeyboy Edwards or the other older-generation Delta blues guys.) I've been keeping an eye on Guy, and Keb' Mo', and both of them are clearly positioning themselves, in their publicity and the way they dress, for the succession moment when B. B. finally passes and bereaved blues fans are looking around for the next King. Although Kevin Moore is an L.A. guy through and through, his current publicity is stressing his family's Mississippi roots. He wants that crown! God bless 'im. Meanwhile, Buddy has been dressing more and more dapper--well, when he's not wearing overalls. His PR people, I assume, are grooming him. It's as though he's casting about for just the right look to take him that last 15 years as Mr. #1 Old Bluesman. I love and respect Buddy, but it's a little weird to watch him changing up his look so often. It's as though he's not quite certain who he's supposed to be at this late point in his career.
Taj doesn't do that. He's just Taj.
And Charlie Musselwhite is just Charlie. I think his stock is sure to rise slightly when B. B. is gone. He's got Mississippi roots, of course. He was born there.
The blues world cares so much about "roots" and other tokens of authenticity that there's always been a certain amount of pressure on blues performers to live up to public beliefs and hungers. This is why the annointing-moment is so important: in our time, the moment when younger white (and, increasingly, black) blues performers get onstage with elders and somehow earn their stripes with enough panache that the elders and/or journalists and/or fans say, "Hey, this guy (or gal) is the real deal!" It happened with Jonny Lang many years ago when Bob Vorel in BLUES REVUE said, "He's the real deal," and it's happened more recently with Shemekia and with Marquise Knox. I think blues cruises are where this sort of thing happens these days. Weird. Cruises used to be for rich people....Well, I guess blues cruises still are. Rich people and blues musicians.
I don't think the official annointing moment ever happened with Jason Ricci; he made it on his own--after spending time at Junior Kimbrough's juke, of course. The annointing certainly happened with Billy Branch; it happened during the HARP ATTACK sessions, when his elders ragged on him even as they shared album-time with him, and in which Bruce Iglauer cannily included the song "New Kid on the Block," dramatizing the annointing and the ritual hazing that was a part of it.
The blues world functions somewhat differently than the rock world in this way, I sense. There's that origins/authenticity need: the old folks hold down the fort until the young ones get sufficiently strong (or popular) to storm it. Actually, maybe the Stones function like this in the rock world. Hmmm. But of course they're named after a Muddy Waters song. There's the blues for ya. The blues is a shark.
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2011 6:34 AM
My list wasn't supposed to exhaustive - the point being that people will still be honouring the same blues legends as us in another 30, 40, 50, probably 100 years time. The Hiphop culture will honour its legends and so will pop and grunge fans. Legends span generations and new legends can rise at any time. The rise of new legends does not diminish the stature the old ones.
Have the Beatles, Elvis, Hendrix or Bob Marley diminished in popularity?
No doubt some current blues players should have been in my list too - but as someone who is not as deeply immersed in blues culture as others here, it would have been presumptious of me to suggest who the future legends may be. Thanks Adam for filling in the gaps!
Last Edited by on Nov 19, 2011 1:13 PM
Adam - I don't know Buddy Guy, but I suspect he is being himself. I know people that have known him and they tell me he is just being himself. I don't get the impression that he has image consultants around him.
Regarding Billy Branch, prior to his appearing on Harp Attack, he had appeared on over 75 albums including recording sessions including sessions with Willie Dixon, Johnny Winter and Lou Rawls. The talent was there. If a person can't play, they don't typically get hired for those sessions. He also introduced and taught more people to play the harmonica than probably anyone else. His Blues In The Schools program has been going on for 30+ years.
Plus, when you go to a Billy Branch show, you see two types of people that you won't see at a Charlie Musselwhite show. Young people and Black people. I'm not saying this to give Billy any special credibility, but people seem to ignore or minimize his contribution to the music. He wasnt anointed. He's earned any critical acclaim that he has received by working his ass off.
Shemekia Copeland has turned out to be a fine singer. She also has a very tight band. She has toured a lot in the past 20 years. The blues cruise patrons really like her. They see her a lot.
While I have not been on a blues cruise, I know a lot of peoplewho have been on them. They aren't all rich. In fact, most of the people I know that go on them are of modest means. One is a college professor, so you know he isnt making a ton of money. They love the music and get it 24x7 for several days straight.
Regarding Bob Vorel's statement about Johnny Lang, don't forget he was attempting to build Blues Revue magazine as a white washed alternative to Living Blues.
I think I qualify as a geezer=61 years old-but being a blues lover is at an all time high for me-it will not die for me ever
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2011 8:06 AM
