Should "Karma" be considered a religious belief and be banned from the forum?
I'm Christian. I get razzed a lot about believing in a person that holds a magical force that will bring punishment to bad people and blessings to good people. One that can't be proven to exist.
What I'm saying is that I don't understand why people can openly talk about a magical force that brings punishment to bad people and good things to good people. But yet these unproven "Beliefs" are accepted.
What makes my belief different than Karma?
I believe God holds the power, and Karma says the Power just exists.
I believe talks of "Karma" should be banned from this site. Like religious talks.
you don't even know what karma is. Stop stirring the pot.
Karma is a law which maintains that every act done, no matter how insignificant, will eventually return to the doer with equal impact. Good will be returned with good; evil with evil. Karma is sometimes referred to as a "moral law of cause and effect." Karma is both an encouragement to do good and to avoid evil, as well as an explanation for whatever good or evil befalls a person.
I am the only true Christian on this site and can claim so without repercussion as it is my birth name.
You Miles, should be banned simply for bringing up the word when it's clear you shouldn't.
---------- "Music in the soul can be heard by the universe." - Lao Tzu
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 10:11 AM
Before this thread gets banned, your understanding of karma is incorrect.
Karma is about habit energy. It isn't good or bad. The things you do create karma. It is sorta like you are what you eat.
If you do "bad" things and it becomes a habit to act "badly", than you shouldn't be surprised when the effect of your "bad" actions have a negative reaction from others. It isn't about luck or anything.
To get this back on topic to harp...
If you always play a bend flat, it becomes a habit. You shouldn't be shocked that the note then sounds flat and others may react towards that note with some negativity.
All karma is is the law of cause and effect. If you don't believe that actions have an effect, which I am pretty sure is a scientific given (see: Newton), than I'd say you were wrong.
Plus, Buddhism isn't technically a religion to begin with...it is a philosophy. That being said, I think even the pop-culture interpretation of karma holds at least as much logic as many other religious beliefs.
If a word like karma can't be used here, than the word Christmas can't either.
/I think we should stop looking for things to be offended with./
Wise words. Reminds me of Epictetus: "people are not disturbed by things, but by the view they take of them."
@HarpNinja:
/Buddhism isn't technically a religion to begin with...it is a philosophy./
The little I've read suggests (a) that karma isn't a concept unique to Buddhism (b) that a distinction can be drawn between Buddhism-the-religion (as practised, say, in Tibet) and Buddhism-the-philosophy.
I like your point about bad practice bringing about bad outcomes. Nicely put, and something, I think, that most of us would do well to remember...
xxx
EDITED to satisfy my grammar needs
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 10:20 AM
How is a law religious? Law is often used to refer to science (the law of gravity), or a legal statute.
You are also right about it not being unique to Buddhism...I wrestle with the religion/philosophy part, however, because it is, again, all up to interpretation. I guess we would need to first define religion. Often religion is associated with the actual worship of some diety or god, which doesn't happen in either of the major historical schools of Buddhism, although ritual would in the case you mention. There there are the newer branches that really blur the lines... ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 10:23 AM
one time I gave this tranny my seat on the bus, two days later, I won 10$ playing the lottery. I used it to purchase a dinner (taboola, steak & cheese, gingerale)
Karma, my friends.
PS. There shouldn't be any censorship, I don' think there are any children on this forum. Let's just try to be accepting of each others' views and always know, always remember; this here is thee internet. ---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
What I'm saying is that Karma does NOT exist. And cannot be provent to exist.
"Karma is a law which maintains that every act done, no matter how insignificant, will eventually return to the doer with equal impact. Good will be returned with good; evil with evil. Karma is sometimes referred to as a "moral law of cause and effect." Karma is both an encouragement to do good and to avoid evil, as well as an explanation for whatever good or evil befalls a person."
This is exactly what I have Been taught as a Christian. So why is it ok for you to state the exact same thing but I cannot say:
God is a Person which maintains that every act done, no matter how insignificant, will eventually return to the doer with equal impact. Good will be returned with good; evil with evil.
It is the exact same thing only karma believes that the world posseses the power and I believe that a person posesses it.
So tell me how Karma is not the same as religious talks.
Why is it Right for you to talk about these magic powers when you refer to it as Karma, when I cannot when I refer to it as God?
Its not right.
I still maintain that talks of Karma strongly be urged to be banned from this forum.
@Miles: "What I'm saying is that I don't understand why people can openly talk about a magical force that brings punishment to bad people and good things to good people. But yet these unproven "Beliefs" are accepted."
I believe in god, but I couldn't help not LOL'ing at that statement. The same can be said about your god, no?
EDIT: "What I'm saying is that Karma does NOT exist. And cannot be provent to exist."
double lol. ---------- I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
OdaHUMANITY!
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 10:26 AM
The word karma needs to be taken in context has it has multiple meanings. Some of these are sorta maybe religious, but the pop-culture definition is not.
/I guess we can't talk about the law of fluid dynamics and how they pertain to reed response then./
I think I'd need a refresher course in early-years science first. Probably maths too. See you in class sometime in 2012?
@HarpNinja:
/How is a law religious?/
When it makes claims about the world that are unsupported by or presented as irrelevant to empirical data. Maintaining that the law is true will, therefore, require some act of faith. Systematising this act faith seems to me to be a bit, er, religious?
"But please refrain from flaming, insulting, or otherwise impugning the intelligence or good intentions of your fellow board members, or from starting threads that seek to encourage that sort of behavior. Religion is one topic where we have, unfortunately, proven our inability to remain civil or respect each other's differences. Accordingly, threads containing the word "religion" or variants on that word, and/or threads devoted explicitly to discussions of religion are BANNED FROM THIS FORUM until further notice."
/religious beliefs are "Unprovable beliefs about the nature of the world"./
Yes. But all unprovable beliefs about the world are not religious beliefs. A bit like "all Marine Band harmonicas are made by Hohner" not being the same as "all Hohner harmonicas are Marine Bands."
So, gravity is technically a theory. Does this make is a religious belief, considering a theory is not a fact? One day an apple may just not fall from the tree.
I found about a dozen threads referencing the word karma, which almost had nothing to do with religion at any time. However, the initial use of karma in this thread sure did.
I don't think a handful of threads using the word karma in the context it has been used is continual use of the word since there have been probably thousands of posts here. In fact, almost every use I saw in a search was using karma as a synonym for good luck.
Which, reminds me, we would have to ban the word luck too.
I am not going to check, but I bet the word mojo and references to Christmas are much more frequent. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
That we have a system of law is not proof of the existence of karma.
It is to be expected that people doing actions which either negatively or positively impact others will receive re-actions from these people based on how they like/dislike it. For example, someone tells me to f* off and I won't help them out. Someone steals, we have a system to arrest him. We pollute, our environment becomes poorer and we suffer from it. Action -reaction.
If karma existed, Hitler would have gotten it much worse, and Martin Luther King would not have been assassinated. /edit: and who's to say karma would be on our side. After all, morals are based on our upbringing and peer influence (society). By looking at the latter facts, maybe Karma is nazi../
You can't prove karma exists or that it doesn't exist. But it's hard to disprove a negative - just look at Russell's Teapot
Should karma be kept off the forum? Well, why not. It's not really fundamental to the discussion.
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 10:57 AM
"The fact that we have laws against crimes is proof karma exists"
No. We have these laws because we know that the world won't take care of the punishments itself.
How many people kill, steal, rape and do not get punished?
So karma worked in OJ's case huh? It's real? Where was Karma at when america dropped a bombs? Are we going to get A bombed for it? No not likely. Thus Karma does not exist.
Karma is a philosophy,as are astrology and religion. Whereas I am never offended if someone believes different than I do, it's just poor taste to trounce another's beliefs because they don't line up with yours. Who knows the absolute truth and answers? Despite any faith of ours in our individual beliefs-none of us do. Let's just be nice to others and press on. ----------
Me saying that "God will punish you for what you have done" is the exact same thing as saying "Karma.................".
So why can people talk about karma and I cannot talk about God.
And of course no other thread has connected karma with religion! Duh. That's THE ONLY REASON I POSTED THIS. TO MAKE THE CONNECTION THAT KARMA IS A RELOGIOUS BELIEF!!!!!!!!!!
Also tell me exactly what forum creed I have broken. I brought up religion to put to light a problem I have been seeing, a loophole for people to talk about religious beliefs. Karma is a religious belief.
Philipee and Miles, you are still misinterpreting what karma is. It is cause and effect.
Karma did work. He was found guilty in a civil trial and his life went to crap - very publically - and he went from a hero to villian.
Can you prove there hasn't been? There was for sure a reaction to that impacted at least perception towards the US. One could argue that the world would be a very different place had that not happened.
Why does a consequence have to be an eye-for-an-eye? Oops, we should probably ban that phrase too. Karma doesn't judge good or bad.
Miles,
You appear to have a bit of a hidden agenda here and I have no clue why, but karma is in the works right now in that there has been a reaction to your post and depending on whether someone agrees with you or disagrees with you effects are taking place.
You are burning bridges with some, fueling negativity, and creating stress for both sides. Those who agree with you are probably also wound up and agitated now towards the other side. You are creating an issue in which one is put in position to take a side and intellectually, at the very least, have a fight.
Adam and the admins will now have to deal with the karma of your actions too, which, in the very least, will have this thread locked and maybe even draw suspensions or bannings. ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
"But please refrain from flaming, insulting, or otherwise impugning the intelligence or good intentions of your fellow board members, or from starting threads that seek to encourage that sort of behavior."
Check.
"Religion is one topic where we have, unfortunately, proven our inability to remain civil or respect each other's differences. Accordingly, threads containing the word "religion" or variants on that word, and/or threads devoted explicitly to discussions of religion are BANNED FROM THIS FORUM until further notice."
Check.
*Edit* You said right in your OP that you knew religious posts are banned, yet you stared one anyways. At least a few of us have stretched enough to included harmonica in the conversation! ---------- Mike VHT Special 6 Amp for Harp Blog
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 11:09 AM
"Karma is a philosophy,as are astrology and religion. Whereas I am never offended if someone believes different than I do, it's just poor taste to trounce another's beliefs because they don't line up with yours. Who knows the absolute truth and answers? Despite any faith of ours in our individual beliefs-none of us do. Let's just be nice to others and press on."
read all of what I have written. I never "Trounced" on anyones beliefs. I just don't understand why we can talk of "Karma" (A magical force that makes sure I get punished for my actions. But I cannot talk about "God" (a magical force that makes sure I get punished for my actions).
What makes Karma different from God? That is what I'm saying.
Karma and talks of it should be considered religious beliefs and banned from this forum.
I am not trying to make trouble in any way. I see a way that people are being inequalized and want this corrected.
Miles, I didn't say you in particular trounced on anything-mine was a general statement: We all have different beliefs, and that should be accepted and left at that without passing judgement.
Develop thicker skin. It's easy to be offended if you allow yourself to be.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2010 11:18 AM
