Hi all! In the "Do you feel Bombarded" thread, I mentioned that I had just shelled out some dough for an incredibly good deal on a Marine Band Deluxe in Low F from Amazon ($36). Well, she just came in the mail! So I thought I would share my first impressions of the harp OOTBP (Out Of The Blister Pack). I have not taken it apart yet or modified it in any way (but I will do soon).
Here's the short of it: It's a good OOTBP harp. It could be better.
Here's the specifics:
Things I liked were: 1)It's in decent tune 2)It has great tone (that same Marine Band tone!) 3)It plays like a marine band 4)I could get the 6 OB right away 5)I won't have to drill and tap it for screws 6)I won't (shouldn't) have to seal it 7)The coverplates are already opened in the back 8)It's very shiny!
Things I thought could have been better were: 1)Gapping is really inconsistent up and down the harp 2)"Rounded holes" is a facetious claim. They are SLIGHTLY chamfered. A little bit. They are HARDLY different from standard marine band "square" holes. 3)The edges of the reedplates are still sharp enough to cut! 4)The edges of the reedplates are still sharp enough to cut!! 5)The edges of the reedplates are still sharp enough to cut!!! 6)The edges of the reedplates are still sharp enough to cut!!!! 7)I couldn't get the 7OD or the 5OB OOTBP (minor complaints)
Things I will do to this harp 1)Sanding the edges and especially the corners of the reedplates so that they are no longer razor sharp 2)Gapping. Straight away, that's necessary. 3)Flat sanding. This is something I do to all my harps. 4)Maybe embossing, maybe not.
All in all, I think $36 is a good deal for this harp. I think $40 is a fair price for this harp. I think that $48-$58 (standard price) is WAY to high for this harp. By the way, I just checked, and Amazon has lowered the price of the Low F (just the low F) to $30.49 (and qualified for free shipping), so if I were you, I might take this chance! Heck if Amazon sees that, once they drop their prices, they are suddenly selling a lot of MBD's in even in odd keys like Low F, then who knows, they might drop their prices on ALL their MBD's!
So, I will leave you with a video I just made where I am playing a shuffle jam with my new MBD Low F (and duet-ing on the looper with a normal F Marine band,so that's what you hear first in the vid).
Stop! I'm trying to save money. I managed to click away yesterday when you first posted about the deal on Amazon. They have that deal, and a deal on the Yeti Microphone for under $100. Must... resist... willpower... failing... (And my Low F is in pieces right now!)
I have one Sp20 low F, which I regapped and embossed to be able to play it well. Embossing really made a difference (although I did it pretty quickly without moving the reeds). So I suggest you'll try a slight embossing to that MB too..
Seal it. Otherwise it WILL swell. The only mass-produced wooden combs that don't swell are Seydel 1847/solist pro and suzuki firebreath. And crossover. ---------- www.truechromatic.com
Isaac jim's right about that. If you don't seal it now. you'll wish you did latter. Soak it in the mineral oil that you mentioned before. I got that idea from you and it works GREAT. Mineral oil doesn't seal the pores of the wood. The absorbes it. I have fully sealed harps and mineral oil soaked combs and they do sound different! I also file the reedplates down to the comb. Then sand the edges. Alot MBD's I get have sharp edges. I always sand the reedplates on all Marine Bands! Ofcourse I had to cut myself a couple times before I figured it out.
@Nate: I hear something. Do you hear it too? it sounds like "Buy me.... Buuuyyyyy meeeeee.... BUY ME!"
@Ant: Oooooooo! Bocote wood comb! Man, that just sounds dead sexy! Let us know how it plays, and post some pics so we can all drool!
@apskarp: Good to know! When I have time to devote to indepth harp fiddling, I will certainly give embossing a go on this guy. Thanks!
@jim and chromaticblues: Ahhh yes, the infamous "partially sealed" combs of the MBD! I haven't taken it apart yet, so I was reserving judgment of that issue until I had "seen it with my own eyes". But it is good to know that the claim of "sealed" is as facetious as the claim for "rounded" holes. I will definitely soak the thing in mineral oil then. Thanks! ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
Isaac thanks for the heads up on the Amazon deal! Couldn't resist when I saw that Low F at $30 with free shipping...ugh stupid GAS. But this'll be my first MBD so looking forward to seeing how it sounds. Will surely gap and fully seal it, but for less than a reg MB what a steal. My only low harp is a SP20 so I'll see how it compares.
oohhhh! I think we found a loophole! I wonder if they show up on full body scans? I suppose that one could always hide one under one's "junk". ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
Yowza! That's a glitch in my plan! Plus, I'm not sure how eager I'd be to play that harp after an 8-hour flight in "economy" class! ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
I have a Marine Band (not a Marine Band Deluxe) that Hohner gave me at SPAH with a FULLY sealed comb, as well as a Blues Harp with a fully sealed comb - both are prototypes I suppose. Apparently there are some pretty exciting changes and improvements on the way from Hohner in the near future. I was also told that they will soon discontinue assembling the Marine Band classic with nails, and use screws instead, both for the reed plates and cover plates.
@Todd --- That is something MB players have asked for them to do for decades was to get rid of the nails. Hohner never wanted to seal combs for decades because of production line costs and plus they didn't have a way to do it on a production line basis. They came out with the MB Deluxe with a partially sealed comb held together with screws because of the success of the Hering 1923 Vintage Harp when it was introduced in 2003, and it cut pretty deeply into MB sales. They used the African wood doussie on the MS combs because they didn't want to seal the combs at all and I've heard tons of excuses prior to those about them not sealing combs directly from Hohner. I personally don't care for the doussie combs because they're too hard and brittle and actually can crack easier than pearwood if one overtightens the screws on the reedplates of the MS harps using them. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Yes Jim, very true. And likewise, it took just as long or longer before Seydel became a viable competitor (at least in the USA). I wish I could have had Seydel harps available 15-20 years ago. I use their high tunings quite often in studio sessions.
Bob, I think there are some pretty cool changes on the way, but I personally don't care for MS harps, even if they are sealed. I think the Golden Melody is the next harp that needs a serious overhaul.
Hey wow Todd. That's really great news. I wonder, however about the pricing. I (like many others) grumbled when Hohner upped the price of Marine Band classics, Spec 20's, MS, and Golden Melodies to around the $30 mark, but I wasn't going to riot. Nor would I riot if they stated offering the "screwed" marine band at a small increase (say up to the $35 mark). What WOULD bother me is if they decided to up it to the >$40 mark. Considering the other options out there today in the $40 and under category, that would be a bad decision in Hohner's part. I definitely think that that is why MBD and Crossover (Which are $50 to $60 harps) aren't catching on as quickly as the Manji, the 1923, or Soloist Pro, which I consider to be all in the same quality category. These other harps are selling right around the $40 mark, but Hohner currently does not have a $40 harp. They have the $30 handmades and MS, which compete with Suzuki harpmaster/bluesmaster, Lee Oskars, Bushman, and Seydel Soloist and Standard, and then they have the MBD and Xover just floating up in the stratosphere, priced well over their ostensible competitors. Anyway, I'm rambling now. The main point I wanted to make is that I heartily welcome a fully sealed, screwed marine band, and just hope that Hohner prices it correctly.
@ToddParrott --- I've never been a fan of the MS series in their stock form since day one, and even when I was one of the first to try their prototype of the MS Marine Band (which was only issued in Europe) and nearly everybody I knew who tried it also hated it with a passion.
The only MS harp setup I liked was something I put together using BR cover plates, Cross Harp reedplates, and fully sealed maple comb from Mark Lavoie, but in their stock form, not a fan even now.
Your now seeing more changes from Hohner because they haven't had this much REAL competition since prior to WWII. Despite short comings of Hohners and all other manufacturers (EVERY manufacturer has shortcomings in some way, like it or not, so with OOTB harps, there's nothing TRULY perfect for everyone), there are FAR more choices of good OOTB harps than ever before.
From prior to WWII until the 80's, in the USA, it was essentially Hohner and who else?? Just about no one, as their market share in the US at the time was closse to 98%, and now even tho their market share is still 80-85%, which is still HUGE today, theirs has been shrinking ever since Huang introduced their line in 1982 as the first competition for them in the USA since before WWII.
Heck, back in the early 90's, they introduced the Silver Shadow 64 chromatic, which was essentially a 280 with parts half made in Germany, half in China, priced substantially lower to compete with the Hering chromatics that were less espensive. Unfortunately, that model has been discontinued for well over a decade. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Since you mentioned Huang, do you know if Chamber and Frank Huang designed the Golden Melody as Wikipedia states? I've heard conflicting stories.
As for the MS Marine Band, I have one of those but it's a Spanish Tuning. And you're right about every manufacturer having shortcomings. But I think most would have to agree that if it weren't for Hohner, most of us wouldn't be playing the harmonica today, especially those of us who have been playing for 20 years or more. Where has all the competiton been? Even with all of the recent harps from Hering, Seydel, Suzuki, etc., Hohner said at SPAH that their main competitor is still Lee Oskar. So what good is it to be the oldest manufacturer of harmonicas, or the most innovative, if your product isn't available in stores? (I would be ashamed to admit that I'd been in business for more than a 150 years and only now, in recent years, am I able to be a viable competitor.) Only on rare occasions do you see the other brands in the big music store chains like Guitar Center and Sam Ash. So... love them or hate them, there's something to be said for Hohner's success.
Todd, I'm really starting to enjoy playing GM's (Good Tone, playability, comfort and styling) and would be interested to know the areas where you would like to see some improvements made.
@ Todd You make some very good points. I'd like to point out a couple of things I find puzzling. Many people on this forum are quick to state (in thier opinion) Hohner harmonicas are inferior, but most of there favorite harp players use hohners! Some pro harp players have switched to different harps recently, but many of these people were sought out by other manufacturers and given endoresment deals. I'm personally glad there are so many companies making harps now. If it wasn't for the competion Hohner wouldn't have had a reason to make the MBD and now the Crossover. The Crossover is proof Hohner is serious about keeping the competion at bay. That's good for everybody. If Hohner is going to make better harps then the other company's are going to have improve just to cut into Hohners share. As harmonica players we all win! One thing that Hohner seems to have let slip by is the Golden Melody! Marine Bands and SP 20's have had major improvements, But the Golden Melody is not a very good harp at all. If they made a bamboo comb similiar to the croosover for the GM. I believe most people would welcome the change with open arms! It would be a major improvement. The MS series doesn't bother me because they are for the mother buying a christmas toy for her 10 year old. If Hohner didn't have a $25 harp on the market then that lady would spend her $25 on someone elses harp. Thats just smart business! The problem with the MS sereis is the people that can play the harp and think they are going to save $10 and buy one of those. That would fall under you get what you pay for. Thats not Hohners fault!
The GM has always been my favorite model because of it's shape and unique tone. I do more recording than anything else, and a nice condenser mic captures every nuance of the tone. About 20 years ago, when I first heard the playback of some recordings I did with a Golden Melody, I was hooked.
I think if Hohner were to make a GM Deluxe, something as simple as improving the comb material would be nice. I personally like non-wooden combs, but if it were offered with the option of a wooden or plastic comb, or some other material, this would be great. Harmonica players like options.
It would also be nice to open the covers and accent certain features, and maybe include side vents. Years ago, they offered the GM with chrome plated reed plates, which to me makes a harmonica look very professional. Not sure how this would affect the ability to customize it. And maybe even shiny black covers on a black comb would be nice too (similar to the Hammond).
I wouldn't say that the GM is a bad harp, but as with any OOTB harp, they need setting up. I think Hohner is on their way to making some significant improvements.
Until recently, all my main harps were GM's. I then started getting more custom harps and started working on MB's. It is cost and sorta time efficient for me to work on a MB or Manji than GM.
I love the shape of GM's and their acoustic tone. I don't like the combs anymore. I don't like the fact they aren't vented as 90% of my playing is with a band. They just don't have the presence of the MB. The Manji is sort of a tone compromise between the two.
My general preference is for ET harps as well. Regarding OBs, the GM's set up well.
Todd's covers are awesome (he has some SWEET harps), but with a wealth of MB combs from Buddha and my current tool supply/knowledge, it is cheaper to work with MB's.
Plus, most my GMs are getting old and have been experiemented on to learn to customize.
IMO, the SP 20 is my least favorite of the big three by a mile.
If I had an easy way to open the back and cent the GM coverplates, I'd be willing to stick with GM's and buy custom combs.
@harpninja: "IMO, the SP 20 is my least favorite of the big three by a mile."
I've never played a GM, so I can't comment on that, but what I CAN comment on is that I have recently noticed a significant difference in the tuning between the Spec 20 and the Marine Band. I have Spec 20's in Low D, Low E, A, D, and E, and Marine Bands in G, Ab, Bb, D, and F plus the new Deluxe in Low F I reviewed in this thread. What I've noticed is that the interplay of the 4 and 5 draw when you do a double stop is MUCH harsher on all my Spec 20's than it is on my marine bands. That tells me that the 4 and 5 draw are tuned closer to equal on a Spec 20 than they are on a Marine Band, even though I thought they were supposed to be tuned to the SAME compromised tuning (Bob, can you correct me on this?)! There also seems to be a similar, but less intense difference between the two harp types on the 3 and 4 draw double stop. This is very interesting to me, as those two double stops really are mainstays for Blues playing, so I wonder if Spec 20 is being marketed as more of a "Rock" harp, and the Marine Band is really the only one meant for Blues players? That would leave the Golden Melody for the Jazz cats, which does make sense...
Other than that, even though I replaced the stock plastic comb on my A Spec 20 with a nice wooden one and regapped every reed, I still am not a huge fan of the way it plays compared to my Marine Bands. The MBD Low F also plays way better then my Low Spec 20's, especially now that I went through and corrected the gapping. Spec 20's have been the most widely available Hohner's in Low tunings for reasonable prices online (which is why I have two of them), and I only have the A and E because the local Guitar Center was having a sale, but they only had Spec 20's in stock in those two keys (which were the keys I needed at the time). My D Spec 20 was my first "real" harp I bought 8 years ago, and has been replaced by a D Marine Band in my line up. ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2010 1:30 PM
@Todd When I said the Golden Melody wasn't a good harp at all. I was talking about the comb and the coverplates. The comb is terrible! You did a nice job on your coverplates, but that is also a major part of the GM that needs work. I have seen reedplates that didn't have the middle hole drilled for bolts. You play these harps. Try to put one together without that bolt. It doesn't work very well! I have seen crazy bad stuff with GM's more than the other two. Thats what I meant by "It isn't a good harp at all". I guess I should have said it needs more work to be a great harp than the other two. There I think that is more acurate. It looks like your harp had a hardwood comb. What kind of comb is that todd? Is it Walnut? If you don't mind saying. Where did you get it? @Isaa and Harp ninja I don't like stock SP 20's either, but when tuned to JI and MB coverplates are installed. These harps are MUCH better!
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2010 6:56 PM
@ chromaticblues I don't build or customize harps at all. That one was a gift to me from Randy Sandoval at Genesis Harmonicas. The comb is blodwood. I prefer his Corian combs though. And no offense taken - I know the GM needs an overhaul. :)
@Todd Parrott --- I don't know for certain who actually designed the GM, but I know for a fact that Cham-Ber Huang at the time was head of design and engineering for Hohner at the time until he left in 1981 to form Huang Harmonicas (and his brother, Frank, a top harp tech for Hohner for years, joined him 3 years later), but I would bet money that he was the designer, and it's even more obvious when you look at the top diatonic harp in the Huang line since day one is the Star Performer model, which is nearly identitical in nearly every way, except that wheras the GM is ET tuned, the Star Performer at the time was 19LJI tuned.
@Issaccullah --- The MB/Sp20's are both tuned to the same comprimise tuning, but the big problem with nearly all comprimise tunings except the one Seydel uses is that there is gonna be a huge variance from harp to harp because wheras in ET tuning, you tune to both the individual notes as well as the octaves, or with JI, in addition to that, you also tune each note with the other two notes in the chord to hear where it totally stops beating, the big problem is that with comprimise tunings is that you don't get the luxury of hearing how a comprimise tuned chord truly sounds in terms of its correctness without beating as you do with JI and so you have to do it as close as possible with octaves and pray. The Seydel comprimise tuning is essentially 19LJI, and the comprimised part of the tuning is 5 & 9 draw, and in 19LJI, those notes are tuned 1.5 cents sharp, wheras the Seydel comprimise tunes those two notes 2 cents flat.
Personally, as far as OOTB low tunings go, I've found the Seydel 1847's to be far superior playing wise OOTB than anything else other than a custom harp.
During Hohners awful years 1981-1995, they were once at a point where they were almost going into bankruptcy because of the last surviving Hohner in the company, Frank Hohner, was living too high off the hog and drained the company financially, plus at the time, their biggest selling and most profitable instrument (yes, do also make keyboards, accordions, guitars, basses, and amplifiers, some pretty good for short money) was NOT harmonicas, but a keyboard instrument called the Clavinet, made famous during the 70's, ironically by a great chromatic harp player named Stevie Wonder, who featured it prominently on two of hia big hits: Superstition, and Higher Ground. The part about Hohner concentrating more on the Clavinet I suspected was the truth, which Rick Epping confirmed to me in a phone call I had with him in 1995. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Bob, thanks for that info! Fascinating to know how the history of a company has affected it's products over the years! ---------- -------------------------------------- View my videos on YouTube!"
