Unfortunately, it locked up my computer, and I was forced to wait for it to finish loading. But by then, it was too late. Tila Tequla is in 'angel of God'-who knew? ----------
Well, I'll skirt the creed long enough to say yes, you have a point. I wouldn't let my kids watch any of that stuff knowingly. I for one wouldn't use any of the imagery in question if it were my video. I wouldn't even trot out the Teletubbies-they're scary with being a product of Satan...or aren't they??? ----------
I would dearly like to comment on this topic and more specifically the videos which have been posted. But alas, I'm unclear whether the topic itself runs afoul of the forum's creed. I therefore shall refrain from comment .....*draws blood from biting lip and tongue*
-------
"I am a great believer in logical, rational thought"
A la the Robert Johnson myth/story, right? Well, anyone who would do such a thing for fame and fortune is a buffoon. The problem nowadays is who or what to take seriously. I guess it has something to do with how I was raised, but I don't even joke about such things myself.
So, what happens the second week of November?
---------- "I am a great believer in searing steaks over an open flame for optimum flavor."
Last Edited by on Oct 25, 2010 11:37 AM
The 2nd week of Nov. is when all those vitriolic commercials end. I'm disgusted with all parties involved in this debacle. Just give me style over substance. Oh yeah!
@Buddha: Thanks for the answer. [EDIT]: Buddha originally gave an answer but later deleted it (at the expense of making me come across as being sarcastic).
@Mojokane: Considering that Halloween is this coming Sunday, the subject matter is seasonally appropriate :) ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
I deleted my post for a reason and nobody on this forum can lead the thread where I had originally intended. Please delete my original post. I don't want it up there.
Thanks.
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
Too bad, the topic seemed interesting, but there is nothing left of it... I don't believe in predictions, armageddon and stuff alike, but a discussion about Satan and music wouldn't be misplaced on this forum...
By the way, I wonder why Sterling McGhee is called "Mr Satan", did he choose the name himself or was it given to him, and why ?
Buddha: "Jason Ricci sold his soul to the devil and now he's paying for it."
That's as mean spirited a statement as I've seen on here in quite some time. Hey, maybe you've got your differences with him...but how about taking the high road....for once.
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 9:35 AM
While I think everyone is responsible for their own actions,I don't believe in kicking a man while he's down.(unless he's a lot bigger than me.) Buddha, I see your point,but I don't think we need to go there in someone's personal life.
I have NO differences with Jason, he's been a friend for a long time and I've done nothing but try to help him. He's been very open about who and what he worships. Nothing I said was mean spirited or even with a smidgen of that intent. I ony wish good things for Jason.
Selling the soul to the devil is a long time topic that has been intertwined with music forever.
Robert Johnson Niccolò Paganini Jimi Hendrix Ozzy Osbourne John Lennon and many many more.....
Kanye West
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
The specific idea that rural blues musicians "made pacts" with "the devil" for earthly good fortune is an oft-repeated misunderstanding of the crossroads ritual. Some Christian blacks of the early 20th century themselves confused the issue by calling the entity one meets in the ritual "the devil," but i have found no evidence that they ever called him "Satan" or "made pacts" with him in the medieval European sorcery tradition exemplified by the Faust legend. Furthermore, as will be seen below from several examples, the crossroads deity did not grant good fortune, wealth, or power, as the European-American Christian devil is believed to do. He was a teacher of manual dexterity and mental wisdom.
When African-Americans born in the 19th or early 20th century told interviewers that they or anyone they knew had "sold their soul to the devil at the crossroads," they did NOT intend to convey thereby that the person in question was an evil, hell-bound anti-Christian. The confusion arises in the eyes of white interpreters who don't understand that the crossroads deity is a survival from polytheistic African religions and that he has been assigned the only name he can be given in a monotheistic religion.
The traditional colours assigned to the African crossroads spirit are red and black, and the spirit himself is given offerings of alcohol and sacrificed animals, so it is easy to see why Christian slaves and their masters conflated him with "the devil" (e.g. Satan, the "Adversary" to the monotheistic god in the Jewish, Christian, and Islamic religions). However, the crossroads spirit is not Satan. Nor is he evil, harmful, deceptive, or cruel in the sense that the Judeo-Christian devil is. He is a revered spiritual entity from a polytheistic religious system. No "black arts" in the medieval European sense are needed to call upon him or gain his favour. He is a teacher and guide, the opener of the way.
taken from
http://www.luckymojo.com/crossroads.html
----------
Tin Lizzie
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 10:14 AM
@Buddha I think you read a post wrong by The Gloth. He was in agreement that a post on Satan could be on topic to the forum.
Doesn't Jason even have YouTubes explaining his thoughts about the "devil"? I remember a couple explaining his views...he was also very open about it on his Facebook page when he was active. Heck, most of the imagery from his last album wasn't very heavenly.
@Honkin on Bobo I don't think Buddha's comment, as bluntly as it was written, is really the worst thing said on here...nor is it at all mean spirited. Have you read any of the recent comments directed towards a relative newbie on this board? There are several threads worth...
Heck, what about the Hoo Doo harp thread? There were some statements on there that would be much easier to call mean spirited.
I'm not at all suggesting Adam is a satanist or anything else... just giving another example of how the topic is relevant here and how Satan (agreeing with Gloth) is clearly intertwined with music
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 10:16 AM
The arguments that Chris has presented are not about Satan as a figure (which would be on-topicish for a blues forum) but more the treatment of Satan, Crowley, Satanism and Thelema (religions!), Freemasonry, the Illuminati, The Protocols of Zion etc.. etc.. (the usual suspects) by conspiracy theorists and fundamentalists.
Challenging that would require debate that is against the forum creed. So what exactly is the point of this one-sided discussion?
This is a funny and humorous thread. :D I actually just now noticed how Adam played with the words in that book title.. Yes, I think that Adam was probably the first apprentice of Mister Satan.
This thread has returned my faith on people's goodness. :)
"The arguments that Chris has presented are not about Satan as a figure (which would be on-topicish for a blues forum) but more the treatment of Satan, Crowley, Satanism and Thelema (religions!), Freemasonry, the Illuminati, The Protocols of Zion etc.. etc.. (the usual suspects) by conspiracy theorists and fundamentalists.
Challenging that would require debate that is against the forum creed. So what exactly is the point of this one-sided discussion?"
BINGO!...and well said Mr.V, of course this might not be apparent to those viewing the thread now, as Buddha has deleted his original post as well as the videos he embedded, but you have hit the nail on the head and eloquently stated my reason for not responding to those at the time.
Not a sheep Chris, I actually read a very intelligent, balanced discussion of this in Fortean Times (to which I subscribe) I think the article is on Forteantimes.com now - google "satanism lady gaga". I would love to debate it, but Adam says no religion and we should respect that. This isn't the place.
I re-posted Buddha's original posts but deleted them since he asked nicely.
I DO believe that everyone should have the right to delete posts that were hastily written and in retrospect have regrets. But deleting all your posts simply because you don't like the direction the thread is taking is going a little to far and from this point forward I will, when I catch them, re-post those threads.
I've already proven (to Buddha) that I have the ability.
I'm sitting here in my academic office at the University of Mississippi having lunch--taking a break, in fact, from drawing up my reading list for Southern Studies 598, a seminar I'm offering next term. The seminar title is "Robert Johnson, the Devil's Music, and the Blues: An Exploration in Black Southern Culture and Mythology." And yes, I played with Mr. Satan for many years. So I'm interested in the discussion, and have a lot to say about it.
By the same token, the forum creed asks us not to speak about religion, since we (as a group) have proven our inability to talk about the topic of religion in a civil way. I wrote the forum creed. It has evolved based on painful experience.
This puts me in a double bind. I don't enjoy that.
I wish, frankly, that Buddha had never begun this thread. He can read; he knows the forum's history and the trouble that discussions of religion here has precipitated. Some people can't help themselves. Chis plainly falls into this category. Or else he CAN help himself but he's being deliberately, flagrantly provocative--testing the limits quite consciously and seeing whether I can be goaded into banning him. I have a generous spirit, and so quite naturally I assume that the former explanation is in effect rather than the latter. It's one or the other.
He has deleted his original posts. That's OK with me. I have no beef with him as a result. Thanks, CM! Nevertheless, here we are, smack in the middle of a thread that overlaps significantly with my current area of research.
There's no good way of arbitrating this particular matter. I do think that the question of the devil and the blues is a legitimate topic of discussion on a forum devoted to the blues. So, too, is the somewhat larger discussion of what it means for a musician to sell himself (or his soul) to the devil. Buddha's gambit is not, in other words, a fool's gambit. He's a smart guy and has found a wedge issue that opens up an old can of worms (the question of religion) in a way that I can shut down only at the cost of--well, I've made my intellectual and existential investment in this particular issue evident.
So my pronouncement is: let the discussion continue. Try to stay away from religion, though. No talk about God or gods. But if you want to talk about Satan, the Devil, Jumping Jack Flash, trolls, or the Foxy Mousie who lives under the Brooklyn Bridge, be my guest.
Please don't be evil.
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2010 11:28 AM
Can we talk about ghosts? Bobby Mackey's is a music venue that has probably had some sort of blues/harmonica...it is also said to be haunted...evil spirits too...maybe even Beezlebub hisself!!!
the original point was to never discuss this as a religious topic but rather one that talks about control mechanisms over a soul/person and how it exists in all genres of music.
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
So I speak at length about Lady Gaga being a puppet for a Satanic, Zionist, Illuminati conspiracy, (seriously, that's what started this thread) but I can't challenge that by discussing any, (and even now I'm biting my lip because of the creed), ALLEGED anti-semitic, homophobic, right-wing agenda of CERTAIN believers of "other deities"?
Here was Chris' original link http://misstilaomg.com/2010/06/11/truth-lady-gaga-amongst-others-turning-to-the-devil/
Here's a less sensationalist treatment of the same subject by the very respectable Fortean Times (a British publication devoted to the weird and wonderful writings of Charles Fort: neither sceptical or naively unquestioning):
Chris, I got that, too. Yes, it's a legitimate topic. What great lengths and sacrifices will one make to acheive their idea of greatness? And what leads these people to pursue these avenues? Really, do folks decide on their own, 'I wanna be THE MAN on *instrument of choice*, so I'm selling my soul to the Devil-Man or whomever? What leads someone to pursue Mr. Crowley's writings(other than that Ozzy song)and buy into them hook, line and sinker? ----------
Yeah, I think Fujita enjoyed puttin' the hurt on the Saints. Maybe he sold his soul, too. I listened to a bit of the game on the radio, then realized Transformers 2 would be better viewing-and it was. ----------
"What leads someone to pursue Mr. Crowley's writings (other than that Ozzy song)and buy into them hook, line and sinker?"
The same things that drive others in the other direction - feelings of isolation before and kinship/bretheren afterward.
Feelings of low self-esteem that are then elevated by the discovery of new belief/information. Validation, euphoria.
Since the topic of Jason was raised by others, remember that video of Jason on the Blues Cruise wearing a Crowleyesque Egyptian headdress? Was I alone in thinking that his behaviour was kind of spiralling out of control? I saw many people were laughing "Oh Jason! what will he do next?" I on the other hand was thinking he was someone on the edge - losing control. Jason's had more than his fair share of personal demons in the past. That to me was the sign that they were reemerging- personally I don't think "Do what thou wilt" was necessarily the best creed for anyone showing what looked to me like the excitation stages of bipolar behaviour - however self-validating it seemed to be, however much kinship he found in Thelema.
Did he sell his soul to the devil? I doubt it, he devoted himself to Thelema - a belief system that has clearly Satanic elements (but is not LaVey's Satanism). But to understand that properly (and I don't claim any expertise) one has to put aside preconceptions of "Satan" that are more to do with that "other faith".
I have seen the same thing in many people: friends and professionally, although usually they go the "other way"
I've come to the blues from a different perspective. The blues were born of the previous centuries spirituals which were a result of the obvious parallel with the Israelites' experience. My introduction to the blues were through Blind Willie Johnson, Rev Gary Davis, Joseph Spence, Rev Dan Smith etc.
For me, the salvation experience would not be needed without first having the blues. If the devil and the blues is a legitimate topic for discussion then so should the other side of the coin as long as it's within the same context. ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
Okay, give the man a break. Jason Ricci worked his ass off touring, promoting, and still had the energy and kind nature to answer questions of the harp nature to countless people like you and me. The rest of it is kind of like the speculation (gossip) people make when a relationship breaks up. Recognition doesn't always involve the boogie man, most times it comes down to hard graft, sooooo if you are not prepared to put that work in, shut the xxxx up. p.s. don't Bob Dylan's Satanic proclamations seem slightly out of synch with what his lips are doing?
I was not the one who made the statement "Jason Ricci sold his soul to the devil and now he's paying for it".
I was just making an observation that rather than cause (Selling his soul; Thelema) and effect (subsequent ill health), what was a more rational explanation was that both were linked to the same underlying issues. All that hard work on the road literally burnt him out.
I respect Jason's beliefs, but do not share them; I could say the same of a great many friends who believe other things - not just in faith terms.
I miss his advice and performances. I hope he is resting and exorcising his personal demons - the metaphoric ones that is.
