I guess Washington, Jefferson, Adams and Lincoln probably met this definition.
The problem is that every time you put everything under a microscope and you analyze it until you sucked the life force out of it, you get this sort of thing.
There should be another mental illness called the Sheep People. Those who have no independent thought, they just follow the heard mentality even if it leads them off a cliff.
Oh, and I forgot all the great artists, philosophers and scientists who easily meet this definition but are too numerous to list.
"Hey Columbus, the earth is not round you're insane!"
Last Edited by on Oct 15, 2010 6:09 AM
Yeah, the DSM is pretty scarey. They get a panel of psych doctors together and discuss what they think should go in there. Those doctors can say anything they want is an illness as long as they agree with each other. "Good morning, George Orwell! The earth says 'Hello!"
ODD...glad there's a name for what my youngest son seems to have. He's only 6, and I hope he grows out of throwing himself on the floor and pouting whenever he doesn't get his way. ----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
I recommend that you have your son committed for ODD and then you'll have more time for music. ---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
The guy in the video is not the real performer. It was written and performed by Philly song writer Jerry Samuels. He was also a pioneer in multitrack recording using several tape recorders and bounding the tracks. I met him about ten years ago. I think they reissued a bunch of his stuff on Rhino Records. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
exercise & music you like is good for your mental health whether it's listening to it or learning how to play it. tablets & drugs will just make ya worse it doesn't matter which market they come from . I like crazy people I don't trust people that are too straight laced & rigid who get paid to come up with this stuff
No, Zack-stick around :-D. According to these so-called researchers with their list of 300+ 'mental illnesses', there's a 99% chance(Bob, please check my statistics ;-))that ALL of us would fit into one of the 'ill' groups. I'm afraid to look at the entire list and self-diagnose. That reaction alone might be classified as yeat another new 'illness'.
Hmmm...can we apply for disability if we have a few of these? ----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Oct 15, 2010 1:29 PM
So I guess if you're creative or contrarian by nature, you're mentally ill or nuts???? OK, so now let me quack like the Aflac duck!!! LOL ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I remember ODD used to be called 'being naughty' and the 'medication' was a smack on the bum (this is as a child of course). There are definitely a few 'odd' people on this forum though...I mean this in a good way
i know it's fun to joke about stuff like this, but there are people with very real problems, this being one of them. my wife is an instructional aid who works with special needs kids, and i know of at least one that this diagnosis could apply to. it's not a behavioral issue; he can't help but to act out against pretty much anything he's told, even when it's to his own detriment or makes no sense.
like many aspects of personality, some things that might be merely quirky, or even desirable, in "normal" degrees can become incapacitating when they get out of control. characterizing these things is a tool for trying to help those afflicted, not for an Evil Government to enslave them. they have plenty of easier ways to do that.
i'm a harmonica slave. the US and former Soviet governments are innocent. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
Without wading through a peer reviewed article as a reference for this "research" -and not a 3rd party interpretation- then this isn't credible enough to take very seriously. It looks more like a chain letter.
Zach, your suggestion to do some research was a good point. Running off at the mouth without knowing much about the topic usually makes someone look ignorant. My skepticism was focused on the article posted here and its slippery slope implication that creative thinking will eventually get you thrown into an institution. Please, watch another episode of Lost. Before people fall into conspiracy theories because it's somehow fun to get excited about such things maybe they should do some research. I KNOW about issues related to diagnosis and treating mental illness, particularly kids. I have a graduate degree in teaching science and have taught for 20 years. Im in the blue flame of these issues everyday and I participate regularly in the process of diagosing mental "illness" in kids. The irony (Zach) is that my primary goal as a science teacher is to help people understand that it's really useful to think before you run your mouth. This, hopefully, leads to skills like cogent reasoning and analysis of evidence (research). Again, as I suggested in my first post, look carefully at the information, its source and how it rephrases the cited quotes to set up the words creativity and free thinking. I question the credibility. Perhaps some research is order?
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2010 4:39 AM
Whereas, as far as I can remember, alcoholism used to be regarded as a disease, but now it's regarded as a personality trait?
I can picture a person who doesn't accept any transmitted truth at all and has a contrary opinion on every subject. This would be one reason for all the conspiracy theories around. The next step is for that person to live in a fantasy world, so yes, I think it is sensible to consider it as an illness. Clearly there is a link with paranoia and schizophrenia. The trick is not to confuse it with a healthy person who accepts half of the knowledge that is transmitted and questions the other half.
Classification is one thing, but misdiagnosis is the real problem. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2010 11:54 AM
.....Studying how someone reacts to being forced to attend years of unnatural, propagandistic, mandatory schooling produces a biased view of his mental health. The mandatory schooling elicits the various behaviors.
Littoral, you bet! I looked it up soon after, and it's like anything, some doctors will diagnose any kid or person with it to shut them up, and some kids who have it will not. It's interesting nonetheless.
.....Um, hvyj, if something is not a real illness, one shouldn't be (forcibly?) "cured" of it and insurance should not cover it! The homosexuality example proves this point; the DSM is a dangerous, trendy tool. At the very least, an illness should be able to be blindly diagnosed in a clinical situation. No one should be forcibly "cured". The idea that the DSM's best purpose is as an insurance accounting aid is highly shocking! ----------
Adam, I normally stay out of these things but I was wondernig if you would consider locking this thread. I am not confortable at all with this subject as it pokes fun at very serious problems some people have (including some on this forum). OCD, ODD, etc. can impair someone's life greatly and be very a heavy burden for their loved ones as well.
I don't think I'm alone in this demand as other forumites have asked that we don't poke fun at mental disorders. It's ok to make a bit of fun but if this was about cancer or aids rather than mental disorders, this thread would have been gone a long time ago.
.....Every rational person's opinion is valuable to me, hvyj. However, like Dr. Thomas Szasz, I consider "mental illness" as a dangerous metaphor, meant to sound like medical science but really merely vexing behavior or difficulty living, not a "disease". ----------
Last Edited by on Oct 16, 2010 11:39 AM
hmmm," mental illness as a dangerous metaphor"???? schizophrenia is very real. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
I'm not saying it's not real I'M saying it's just not described right allowing it to be diagnosed easily. Schizophrenia, OCD, etc, are VERY real and anyone who says they aren't do not have a clue about mental illness.
I try to only poke fun at mental illnesses I suffer from, OCD, Social Anxiety Disorder, Acrophobia and Depression (in remission most of the time!)
I think the thing to remember with science of diagnosises is that as part of understanding something is classifying things. It turns out, for instance, that classifying certain disorders as anxiety disorders can actually help in treatment. I take medication for my OCD. OCD is an anxiety disorder. The same medication also helps with my other anxiety related issues. It's a coping mechanism.
The rule of thumb for diagnosis is usually something to the effect of, 'Does it prevent you from normal life activities?' The answer for me was an unequivocal yes. (My depression had gotten so bad I was homeless.) Sometimes the descriptions can sound silly, but you've got to remember that these are minimum diagnostic standards. Many cases will be much more severe. Unless you are causing serious (read dangerous) problems for other people it becomes an issue of personal choice. Is your mental health issue keeping you from living the life you want to live? If it is, you balance the trade-offs for treatment with problems of the disorder. Talk therapy has pretty low side-effects, so that's a good first step. Medication is more difficult choice. The case with children being diagnosed is more complicated, since their parents get to decide whether the child gets treatment, but that's the same with any medical issue.
Based on some of the incredibly strong reactions to the subject I think some of you guys may need to check out the parameters for paranoia. Kids that have a bona fide ODD diagnosis don't even have a chance of getting an education without treatment. We're not talking about their freedom of thought and speech. We're talking about kids that end up assaulting a teacher or parent.Kids with untreated ODD are likely to be the adults with antisocial personality disorder...what we used to call sociopaths. The next off topic discussion should be about the rise in juvenile crime. What do you want to do with those free thinkers and nonconformists? A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
.....(Zack said) "Schizophrenia, OCD, etc, are VERY real and anyone who says they aren't do not have a clue about mental illness."
'"Mental illness" is an expression, a metaphor that describes an offending, disturbing, shocking, or vexing conduct, action, or pattern of behavior, such as schizophrenia, as an "illness" or "disease".' Dr. Thomas Szasz at Wikipedia
Without having read the complete thread I think there's fundamental misconception in our society of what a sickness is.
Most of us have a good variety of 'sicknesses' in us. Most of us have a little ocd, a little depression, some have ego-mania, some nervous tick,.. all very common and a little schizophrenia on top (as it covers such a big field of mental illnesses, it's always a good diagnosis). When we come to physical illnesses there's much more. We all suffer from a LOT of 'sicknesses',... It's just part of being human.
However, with most people all the trillions of ways that we can alter from the 'norm' isn't severe and it's ignored or accepted by society and the person itself. However as we all are different some people have a affinity to show/to develop one of these 'sickness'/traits (no matter if they are defined as a sickness or not) a little more than others. At a certain point (mostly when declared by a doctor), these 'sicknesses'/traits may be declared as a 'sickness' and then the person is sick.
At the end of it all we're all sick. And if you're convinced your not, well you're suffering of a quite dangerous delusion of wholesomeness. I would suggest electroshock therapy as was done with homosexuals back when it was defined as a 'sickness'.
The only time I "get sick" is when I get hit on by a young honey (knowing I can't do anything about it anymore)or lose my stashed bottle of Crown Royal or get a letter from the IRS. Oops, also add to that being forced to hear "FreeBird" or "Brown Eyed Girl" or "Stormy Monday" for the 40 thousandth time. As old Chuck Berry said wayyyy back there....."too much monkey business for me to be involved in".
I Think some one in the highest executive office has alot of those traits that are in the discription in the first post on this thread. oops my fingers slipped.
Last Edited by on Oct 17, 2010 6:51 PM
And if you don't argue then you're just a well medicated Mentally Ill person. LOL. In the end I think we're all Mentally Ill, especially my personally stalker, N.O.D. Cheers Mate ;)
Having worked in a field where it isn't uncommon to see people formally diagnosed and treating with ODD, I can see the media spin on this one. The title is very catchy, but ODD isn't about general nonconformity and freethinking as we'd probably generalize it.
"Defined as an “ongoing pattern of disobedient, hostile and defiant behavior,” symptoms include questioning authority, negativity, defiance, argumentativeness, and being easily annoyed."
The symptoms listed above aren't all that abnormal to encounter from people and I don't think the definition stresses the hostile part enough. Nor does it describe the context.
ODD isn't really about freethinking, it is more about defiance even when the decision is obviously the wrong choice.
An example off the top of my head would be a rocking boat. Someone with ODD my insist on standing or that their movement isn't going to tip the boat, which is being defiant to be defiant with no concern for the outcome - which could be capsizing.
Another would be wrecking someone else's possession knowing that it is a hurtful and disrespectful act.
Sadly, as he seems to enjoy the label (even if in jest), Buddha probably isn't ODD. He has too much self-control and common sense - even if he is harsh online.
Just because I dislike Just Beiber and the majority of the music listening world doesn't (and I would easily succumb to all the behaviors listed), that doesn't make me ODD.
