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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Fresh Start
Fresh Start
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2holebend
11 posts
Jul 08, 2010
8:18 PM
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There are so many extremely talented and accomplished harp players on this forum...that is very cool. Me, not so much in that category, but absolutely love everything about the harp, and the Blues for that matter. Been playin for only about 3 years, but seem to have hit a peak...or maybe a valley is better stated.
Motivation not as high as before. Would really welcome some insight from you long time players (and Heart2heart-who is phenomenal for only one year of playing) about how you learned, what motivates you to play on through the ruts, and most importantly, how you practice. Adam, your story would be good here as well. Thanks my brothers and sisters.
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nacoran
2379 posts
Jul 08, 2010
9:00 PM
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I've only been playing about as long as you. When I get low on motivation I read about new, but related, things. I've read up on everything from titanium reeds for saxophones to obscure relatives on the free reed musical instrument tree. Some studies have shown that you can actually improve some skills by taking a break from the physical practice and doing thought exercises instead.
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Nate
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isaacullah
1048 posts
Jul 08, 2010
10:19 PM
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I'm in the first quarter of my fourth year of playing. I've had my fair share of ruts. To bust a rut, I ALWAYS go back to Adam's vids. I've gone through them all at least twice, and have hit some of them perhaps 10 separate times. That's one way I bust a rut. It's pretty effective. Another way is to just surf YouTube or get on LastFM and surf through random songs until something grabs me. I'm not talking about just harp songs, I'm talking about EVERYTHING. I always find something that grabs me, although sometimes it takes awhile. Then I listen to it a bunch of times and I either try to play it, or I get inspired by it and it makes me want to play something else. When I hit a REALLY sticky rut, I just put my harps aside. I don't play them at all. I don't look at lessons. Sometimes I don't even come to this forum (rarely!). Eventually, i get the urge to play again, and I'm back on the road.
What keeps me playing are making my own songs. When I've made a new one, and I'm really pleased by it (I just did one today that's got me all fired up!). That's the feeling that keeps me playing and trying to bust through ruts.
My practice is very loose. I practice tone. I practice rythm. I practice groove. I practice melody. But I only do so playing things that I like. I used to do scales all the time, an I still will do them occasionally, especially in positions I don't use much. I use them more as a warm up these days. Some days, I'll play grooves for an hour or two. Other days, I'll only do a riff or two, and only for 15 minutes or half an hour. I play at least 30 minutes a day (except for during those serious rut busting times when I don't play at all), and I do so in the morning. Then, if I get home before my wife (about three days a week), I'll play for an additional hour or couple of hours. Those are the times when I work on new songs. I play them over and over, trying new riffs and new grooves, and different harps, and stuff.
I also spend about an hour or two a week on harp maintenance/customizing. That's where I keep them clean, gap or regap, and I slowly work on all my harps building them into a fully customized set.
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View my videos on YouTube!"
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apskarp
245 posts
Jul 08, 2010
10:54 PM
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I've been playing harp seriously about 2 years - haven't reached a valley yet with this instrument, but I have experiences on other instruments too. For me learning new kind of music and instruments is the thing that keeps me moving on. But I suppose that sometimes it might be good to switch the focus entirely to something else - e.g. painting, writing, sports, meditation etc. Whatever keeps your natural creativity moving on..
That's my 2 cents anyway...
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Youtube
Hoodoo Sauna
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Last Edited by on Jul 08, 2010 11:00 PM
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tookatooka
1509 posts
Jul 09, 2010
4:04 AM
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2holebend. If you haven't already, take a look at Adams jam tracks. You can download them very cheaply and one comes with an hour long video of how to approach jamming along with it.
I recently got them and find them to be just great for putting the sparkle back into your playing when you get stuck.
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Ant138
485 posts
Jul 09, 2010
5:22 AM
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Ditto almost everything Isaac has said. I always go back to Adams/Jasons lessons and find something new to get excited over. Or i trawl through Youtube looking for riffs, or parts of cool solos i can learn.
Yesterday for example, i wanted to play but just could'nt find the groove(i've been like this for a few days now) so put on Carlos Del Junco's Steady Movin C.D. and thought i would have a go at Movin down the river Rhine, a cover of Sonny Boy Williamson track. Its really helped me with my tongue blocking which up to now has really frustrated me, not the octaves but just regular blocking with slaps and pulls. Today i cant wait to get home to practice. Buying a new harp can sometimes help aswell :)
The main thing is to relax and keep practicing, eventually you come out the other side.
Feel free to to go to my channel(fiendant) on youtube and rip what you can from my video's, i've not long put my response to Heart2Harps comping challenge up which was good fun and a great way to practice your comping.
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Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2010 5:25 AM
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2holebend
13 posts
Jul 09, 2010
5:43 AM
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Great advice Isaac...these are the things I'm looking to hear and learn from...new ways to practice, new thoughts and ideas, new approaches...maybe old ones too...
When I was making my best progress I was playing abut every night for a couple of hours, but have strayed from that. Sometimes breaking out the amp helps too. I am enjoying hearing all of your stories and believe it will help my motivation. Thanks.
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toddlgreene
1519 posts
Jul 09, 2010
5:55 AM
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Listen to music other than what you normally emulate-whether it has harp or not. You'll discover new sounds/scales/textures for you to try. That's what I do to keep things fresh and pique my interest. Try listening to some hot saxophone and trumpet players, maybe even clarinet. Do what they are doing. Some will work for you, some won't, but it will add to your versatility on the harp and your bag of tricks.
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Crescent City Harmonica Club
Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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Buzadero
467 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:44 AM
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If you are plateau'ed, bored, "stuck in a rut" etc, you are the one that needs to break yourself out of it. Knee-jerking straightaway to "lessons" or relying on input from someone else only serves to keep you limited in your expressiveness.
Part of your learning process down the musical yellow-brick road is to draw from inside and develop the discipline to expand your mind, which in turn expands your playing.
You'll get many opinions and suggestions on ways to address the symptom. "Try to play different scales", "Work out a favorite song", "Mimic another instrument". All are very sound suggestions. Each may work for you. But, if you intend to express yourself through what you have chosen (the harp), you need to stretch your own limits.
Clearly, lessons, new tricks and techniques obtained from mimicry and outside sources like recorded music and mentoring from instructors add to your toolkit. But, the use of these techniques and tricks are what YOU make of them. There are 10 holes, 20 reeds, a myriad of warbles, gliss', flutters, OB's, bends etc. If you start running out the sequences and combinations available alone, you can't possibly have run out already.
Yes. Nothing is new. Everything has been done by somebody.
But, you haven't yet.
Carry on......
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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isaacullah
1050 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:45 AM
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Ant138 said: "Buying a new harp can sometimes help aswell :)" He's totally right! I forgot about this phenomenon. Getting a harp in a new key or a new tuning can really help you. It gives you a totally new sound and range of tonal variety. On one of my earliest and deepest ruts, I bought three harps off of e-bay for very cheap: a LO Harmonic Minor, a LO Natural Minor, and a Spec20 in Low E. All uncommon, and thus I got good deals (about $20 each). And to this day, I still go back to these harps when I get sick of playing normal keys on richter-tuned harps. Sometimes, I find I just need to play something totally different, and that's how I found them. Actually, funnily enough, what prompted me to buy those harps was my YouTube trawling (I was in a rut, you see!), and I came across Ant's "Low harp shuffle" and Igor Flach (rest in peace) playing "Yalla Majnoon" on a harmonic minor. I got those harps and I struggled to learn to play those songs. I got a version of Ant's shuffle down (even made a vidoe response to his original post, I think). I'm STILL struggleing to wrap my head around certain parts of Yalla Majnoon, although I've got a few of it's main parts down.
And as for the Natural Minor harp, well, I just made a song with it yesterday, so it's all still paying off!
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Honkin On Bobo
343 posts
Jul 09, 2010
9:37 AM
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2hole,
I totally feel your pain. I've been playing for about six years, but as someone said, it's not how many years you have been playing, but the "hours-in' you have that counts. On that score, I'm dreadful, I probably have the time-in of someone who has been solidly playing 1-2 years, and some of the time-in has probably been relatively ineffective.
In short, I LOVE to play...I HATE to practice. Which is of course a problem, because I don't see improvement in my playing for that very reason. A while back I started a similar thread to the one you have started here, with similar results. All sorts of great suggestions. In the end, you've got to find out what works for you...you sort of have to find yourself.... if that makes any sense. Somewhere somebody wrote that learning to be a musician is all about self-exploration..or self understanding...I believe that's very true. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting better.
Anyway, with respect to practice, fellow board member,
MAL, posted a great article on how to practice music. I thought it was brilliant, particularly the parts about "learning like a child" and "silencing the inner critic". They helped me a lot, maybe it will help you. Here's the link:
http://www.singingwood.com/Frustration.html
Hang in there... and good luck.
Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2010 9:45 AM
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2holebend
14 posts
Jul 09, 2010
3:23 PM
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Thanks Honkin on Bobo, Isaac, Buz, Todd, Ant and all. Keep it coming, because I plan to digest all and will certainly have some really good takeaways! Love this forum....this is what I had hoped it would be.
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wolfkristiansen
16 posts
Jul 09, 2010
3:32 PM
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Hi 2holebend-- my playing ability went up by leaps and bounds when I joined a band. If you can't do that, find an empathic guitarist who likes your kind of music-- blues. The harp sounds so much better, to my mind, with some bluesy chords behind it. I'm pretty sure your motivation, and ability, will progress in that kind of setting.
Don't overlook the public jams at your nearest watering hole, if they have them. They're for amateurs too, not just pros and semi-pros.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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MP
633 posts
Jul 09, 2010
3:53 PM
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i find inspiration in anyone who can out play and out sing me no matter what the style or instrument.
i'm competitive by nature. i think,"i wanna do that"!!
went to see AL GREEN a few months back. the dude is a walking,talking, singing, living, inspiration!! i'm still inspired and that was months ago.
don't get too mired in the technical but don't ignore it either. five minutes of good practice can go a long way. the kind where you go,AHA!
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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joeleebush
31 posts
Jul 09, 2010
4:21 PM
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I have said it a zillion times in 50 years of trying to help people with this crazy instrument. I will get challenged and jeered at again here..I know it's coming.
I am too old to worry about that but I am one helluva teacher for those who will do what I tell them to do. I can turn them into a stone cold terror with that harp if they do what I say with pure blind faith for 90 days.
If they're bound and determined to "do it their way" I tell them not to waste my time or theirs.... (especially mine).
If you are "in a rut".....I would bet money it is because your vocabulary is limited and you have run out of new things to say with your instrument.
There is a cure...and I already know what the "experts" will say. "thats just doing whats already been done" "I am my own creator" "I just feel the music and go from there".
BULL!
"feeling" "soul" "heart" will only carry you so far...then whether you like it or not you WILL hit that plateau. I've heard too many of the greats agree with me on this idea. Rick Estrin and I call it "copping that lick".
You're going to have to sit down and go through the hardheaded process of learning some new tunes almost note for note. Once these patterns and passages have become a part of your vocabulary, THEN YOU CAN START USING THEM HERE AND THERE IN YOUR OWN STYLE OF PLAY.
A young fellow just posted a very good piece of work here on Bill Clarke's "Blowing the Family Jewels". Yea, yea, yea, he missed some things here and there..big deal and so what? On my own recording of Roller Coaster, I forgot to put some passages in there that I know like the back of my hand..but its still recognized as Roller Coaster and I wasn't about to waste studio time money for any retakes on what was really a "mail it in" for me anyway.
The young man who posted "Family Jewels" here was cooking and his tone is excellent...most anyone with some mileage recognizes it as Bill's tune. He did a superb job with it.
You must do the same. You must MEMORIZE...MEMORIZE.
Just memorize and add the harp breaks from a few songs that you're not doing now, throw in an instrumental or two and you will start coming out of that "rut" faster than you will believe.
Learn the following tunes at least 80% note for note (assuming you're not already playing them) and watch what happens to your act.
Little Walter's "Thunderbird"
Rod Piazza's "The Bounce"
Rod Piazza's "Harpburn"
Little Walter's "Backtrack".
Jerry Portnoy's version of "Misty"
then go wild and learn "Family Jewels"
Those should keep you busy for 3-4 months.
Start throwing these licks into your act here and there and watch the heads turn. Knowledgeable players will smile and say "that was a darn clever use of that line out of..etc etc etc"
Go thou now and burn the heads of all shortstop blowers!
So let it be written, so let it be done!
Regards, enjoy, stay happy, and all that stuff.
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2holebend
15 posts
Jul 09, 2010
6:11 PM
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joeleebush....eeeeeexxxcellllent!!!
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2holebend
16 posts
Jul 09, 2010
6:51 PM
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Adam, you did not have Gussow YouTubes or video tutorials from Nat (although I am sure Nat taught you bunches the old fashioned way, which is obviously the purest of lessons)...but I'm guessin' you had a rut or 2...how did you muddle through it? C'mon King, chime in!
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waltertore
751 posts
Jul 09, 2010
7:35 PM
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i am on about my 40th year with the harp. I never have practiced. I play. Since day one I was fascinated with the sounds coming out of the harp. I just kept letting the sounds out via playing often 10-15 hours a day for at least 10 years and music was my sole thing for about 20 years. This was all I did and cared about. I slept where I could, had no real life other than the harp. I moved where my heart called. I still live my life this way. I have hit ruts but they have been more with my frustrations in dealing with the ultra conservative music business. Unfotunately, I let them sometimes affect my playing, but not for long because letting music out is what makes me feel good. I play music to feel good and for no other reason.
My songs come through me. I start with a blank slate everytime I pick up my instruments. this keeps it fresh. To think of doing the same songs over and over, learning others licks, catering to what people want to hear, trying to fit in, trying to sound like the happening artists, an basically putting in hours trying to figure out all this stuff, would put me in an instant rut.
I know the way I approach music is different, but it has kept the music fresh all these years. I feel like I will make it big on my terms anyday. I have been feeling this way for 40 years too. I hasn't happened yet, and if it does or doesn't really isn't the point. the point is I feel this way. It makes for an adventure everytime I engage with music. I have learned to let go of what the world considers right and wrong. I have watched countless musicians trying to compete with the thousands of guys doing pretty much the same thing. That sounds like an eternal rut to me as well. I am much like an autistic person with my music. I can play the same things over and over and feel great. whether anyone else likes it or not is not my goal. Feeling good is my goal. All the notes have been played, and all that is left is to let you out. When you can do this, music never gets stale. Let your heart guide you and follow it blindly. That is making real music! Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2010 7:42 PM
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2holebend
17 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:21 PM
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Walter...great stuff...from the heart. I love your attitude...embracing music as you do. I imagine in year one and not year 40 with the harp that you must have emulated someone? Who did/do you like? Anyone stand out for you that kept you rut-free?
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2holebend
18 posts
Jul 09, 2010
8:50 PM
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Todd..your advice about listening to new music is very simple yet great advice.
Case in point.. I love BB King's Bluesville (XM Radio 74). Hear a lot of good stuff there...stuff I may have never heard elsewhere...i.e. Alabama Mike (Day to Day CD), Legendary Shack Shakers (out there, but some cool cats), Old Bobby Bland stuff (all still timeless), but my most recent find, and I-Tunes purchase....Memhis Blues (Cyndi Lauper). Yep, I said it, Cyndi Lauper...pretty good stuff...with the likes of BB King, Charlie Mussellwhite, and Johnny Lang on most cuts, how could you go wrong? And her voice has always been uniquely inviting. I continue to seek the knowledge of the forum rut busters, so please keep on track, and off of the easy to attack Girls just wanna have fun.....TKS.
Actually, the more I listen to the Lauper stuff, could be good stuff playing harp to many of the songs that Charlie is not already peeing on that tree....
Last Edited by on Jul 09, 2010 8:51 PM
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jbone
358 posts
Jul 09, 2010
9:21 PM
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true, there is always more to learn. i'm an excellent example of this at 38 years of messing with harps. still a LONG way to go.
but along with that i have to say, there have been many times when i saturated myself for too long at a stretch with practice and attempts at learning new things, and i would come to a point where i'd just throw my hands up and put the harps away for a while. go fishing. go to a show here and there. veg in front of the tv. let my mind wander.
the subconscious is an incredible feature of the psyche. it is always sorting and collating below the surface. after many a break from daily harp boot camp, i have gotten the harps out and hit a jam, and had major a-HA moments.
another aspect that has done me well has been to do what little walter used to do. he'd go out and leave the harps home, watch the brass sections or piano guys, and try to emulate them. it's where a lot of his style evolved from.
i remember an interview i saw with mickey rafael, who's been with willie nelson for decades now. in it, he said he'd get up every day, grab a record out of the stack- an extensive collection btw- and whatever his hand picked up, he'd put it on the player and try to play along with it. classical, reggae, greek music, african drum songs, whatever.
in short, sometimes we not only think out of the box, we get completely out of the box and just do something else for a while.
the subconscious is a wonderful thing.
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waltertore
752 posts
Jul 10, 2010
4:27 AM
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2holebend: I love and still love SBWII, Jimmy Reed, Slim Harpo, Buster Brown, Sonny Terry, Model T Slim. Little Walter grabbed me for an instant but the amplified approach doesn't hold my interest. I tried it as well, but it fizzled real quick. I do remember hitting tones or riffs and saying "man, that sounds like one of those above mentioned guys" but I never tried to capture their sound like I read about people doing. These came to me by accident from just the sheer hours I put in.
I have learned to record my music the same way. I turn dials and listen. I have no idea of what the frequencies on the dials mean. Most people study those numbers and apply them to certain tones on voices and instruments. I just turn and listen and when it sounds right it is right. The rooms I record in are not in anyway acoustically treated. this is another area of study that doesn't interest me. I can make a decent sounding recording in any room. My current room is 12'x12' and I am so cramped with the 1 man band, desk, guitar amp, piano, monitors, computer, preamps, that I can hardly move. In theory it is set up as wrong as it comes, but I find I can make decent sounding recordings in it, one take, with all instruments going at once and no overdubs. I do no more than a few minutes of eq'ng each song. I see no need to spend weeks on a single song mix.
When I have to actually study something in the traditional way to learn, it doesn't hold my interest. I had to do that to get my undergraduate and masters degrees. they were exercises in duration memorization vs. the way I like to learn which is let my heart teach me. Life is full of these necessities to reach a level of financial independence and reach career goals. I accept that, but when it comes to my music and painting, I don't want anything to do with a schooled approach. I am in it for me with no concerns about financial gains and acceptance.
Via this method I have created my own sound as a player and my own sound on my recordings. Most guys that play and record aim for industry standards. If I hit on them fine, but I really don't care if I do or don't. I am off to play my weekly gig at the farmers market. There I have total freedom. I love this gig. Walter
PS: I always have loved the guitar and I usually hear my harp as one - for acents, chords, and leads. Trumpet, on the slow ones, is a close second in what I hear my harp playing.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2010 4:40 AM
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MIKE C.
23 posts
Jul 10, 2010
7:50 AM
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Get out and play live as much as possible. Play at jams and sit in with as many people as you can. Years ago I played college baseball for a famous coach who felt that no amount of pracice could top performing in a game situation. Every day that we didn't have a game scheduled we had an intra-squad game. I have found this true as a musician also. Please note that before each intra-squad game we practiced many fundamentals also. So please don't think you should not "woodshed" also. I just mean that the playing to a crowd and the inter-action with other musicians is a great help to get inspired and learn. Best of luck in the future.
Last Edited by on Jul 10, 2010 7:52 AM
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mlefree
4 posts
Jul 13, 2010
11:06 PM
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This one gets me going for a good many months - go to SPAH, Hill Country Harmonica, Buckeye, Garden State or any other harpfest. You'll meet a bunch of cool folks who are all fanatic about harmonicas. You'll meet players of all ages and abilities, all of whom offer great sources of inspiration and motivation.
The great players always make me wanna head straight for the woodshed, both to try to get to a higher level in my own playing, plus to practice the new techniques you'll cop from them. The raw begineers give my a shot in the arm just for their unbounded enthusiasm. Every harp player I've met at a harpfest has had something I could learn from them. That's one of the great things about a gathering of harpers. They are all willing to share their knowledge and experience. They're all a kick to hang with, too.
Do it! After all SPAH is coming up...
Michelle
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Elwood
478 posts
Jul 14, 2010
6:20 AM
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When I'm stuck in a rut - this happens a lot - I try a new position. I'm equally bad at all of them, but it keeps things interesting.
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Heart2Harp
109 posts
Jul 14, 2010
1:55 PM
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Hi 2holebend,
thanks for the compliment about my playing. To be honest, I can partition my progress so far into two important variables: Obsession and Exposure.
By obsession I mean that when I started playing the harp I automatically became obsessed with it. I can play for 2 to 3 hours straight without care for what else is going on around me (this is not necessarily a good thing). Also, most of the time, if I'm not playing, I'm humming licks and riffs and 12 bar chord patterns.
By exposure, I mean how much you listen to other blues harp players. When I first started about a year ago I downloaded about 80 youtube files of Little walter, Big walter, sonny terry, Sonny Boy Willimason, James Cotton, etc. And I listened (and still do) to them day in and day out. I think by doing so, I absorbed some of what they were doing unconsciously and it trnslates in my playing.
To me, the best thing to do when I'm stuck in a rut is to learn a new song or a new riff and to just wear it out. You can also try to come up with as many variations as possible on the riffs you know...This adds variety to your repertoire
Anyway, just my 2 cents.
Mathieu
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Heart2Harp
Heart2Harp
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2010 1:57 PM
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2holebend
19 posts
Jul 14, 2010
10:05 PM
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Mathieu...great to see that you finally posted. Your insight is refreshing to hear. Like you, I start a song, a riff, a lick and wear it out...helps a bunch. But really, your progress in such a short time frame has been inspiring to me. Love your singing ( which is probably better than your playing...but they are real close...that was meant as a compliment).
Anyway, I enjoy the insight from you and others. THanks to my "Fresh Start" post and the fact that is still alive, has given me the motivation I have been seeking.
joeleebush. THanks. I am totally engaged in Little Walter's "Thunderbird" and thanks to you now know the pleasures of a chromatic harp. THe Hohner 270 Chromonica to be exact....I luv it! That song is very cool, and has lots of potential to mix it up with my own stuff.
Maybe I will post a vid after I feel confident enough to share my results of the challenge you presented.
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CaptJonHawaii
17 posts
Jul 15, 2010
1:22 AM
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Wow!! I learned a lot from this post. Thanks 2holebend and everyone else....all very very helpful.
Don't be shy 2holebend, post it up on the chopping block. Mine got no comments, which is not good. Just means
I need to work/practice/have fun even harder...
Jon
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2holebend
21 posts
Jul 18, 2010
8:34 PM
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Capt...I will post a vid soon. I have no shame!!! I figure if I improve dramatically, one day I will look back on my older vids and say look at me then, and look at me now; maybe could be like one of those slimfast commercials....Before/After gigs....I already have a couple on You Tube that are only for fun and the others at Adam's encouragement.
I wanna learn more about playing this little dynamo, and if I struggle along the way, who cares? Certainly not me. Love the Forum.
Joeleebush...you gonna send me those songs to my home email? I ask with the utmost amount of humility, respect, and with great appreciation....
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Buddha
2263 posts
Jul 18, 2010
8:41 PM
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if you get in a rut. Stop playing. It means your mind is overloaded. Go do something you enjoy, learn a new instrument, find a new hobby whatever.... the point is, you need to unclutter your mind.
Think of it like eating and eating and eating.... you get too full, feel sick... but you're ready to do it again after you "make room"
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"All is bliss"
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boris_plotnikov
161 posts
Jul 19, 2010
1:12 AM
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When I get in a rut I prefer goes from music to technique and vice versa.
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