|
Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
I got the blowin' my 4 draw reed in my Hohner pro
I got the blowin' my 4 draw reed in my Hohner pro
Page:
1
southbound_60
24 posts
Feb 21, 2010
8:43 PM
|
Why can't I keep a set of reeds more than 3 months?!I play a couple of hours a day, and more on Saturdays(band practice)But come on,These things are getting expensive!I bet I have spent as much in the last year on harps and reeds as my guitar palyer has spent in the last 2 on his guitar!! I'm gonna try a different brand, and I belive it will be Lee Oscars. Has any one tried the new marine band with the bamboo comb? I woul like to order a full set of Brad Harrison Harps when he has them all, but at $180 each? Ouch!!They better never blow a reed!!LOL!!
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2010 8:43 PM
|
Sirsucksalot
177 posts
Feb 21, 2010
8:59 PM
|
Don't blow/draw so hard.
|
Oisin
451 posts
Feb 21, 2010
9:17 PM
|
Southbound...Sirsuckalot is bang on. If your blowing out reeds you're blowing and sucking too hard. We all did the same thing when we started. I've had harps for 3-4 years and haven't blown a reed on them but when i started i was going through a harp a week.
Our friend Barbeque Bob will be here in a moment to give you some good advice on air pressure....over to you Bob.
|
jonsparrow
2344 posts
Feb 21, 2010
9:55 PM
|
ya your playing too hard. iv never blown out a reed.
----------
|
jbone
282 posts
Feb 21, 2010
10:26 PM
|
to me the answer has been for a long time, less force, more focus. also, let an amp or p.a. channel handle higher volume.
i just saw adam gussow with a 2x6 or 2x8 premier amp, get plenty of volume for most any medium room. the amp was maybe 7-10 watts.
one thing that has really forced me to learn to play more "responsibly"- besides not being able to afford to replace a lot of harps every month or 3- has been to play out live, acoustically, in public, no amps at all. street corners and farmers markets are great for this in nice weather. the surprise for me was not that i learned to keep my reeds intact over longer times but more that my perspective on who i needed to reach changed. i don't need to pierce eardrums at 50 paces, i just need to draw a few people in from 25 feet away. this causes a chain reaction and more people sometimes come over out of curiosity, and to hear better. that puts them in range of the tip jar!!
with an electric band i use a replica bassman and a hot mic. i've been asked to turn down a few times. so i do but i still have what i need sound-wise, even with 2 guitars, drums, bass, and keys or a brass piece or 3.
but first and foremost, i had to find my center in my torso, develop my air column, and begin to play with resonance. it's a skill i need work on yet but i don't blow out near as many harps as i once did. there was a time i'd kill about one harp every gig. my "record- i'm not proud of- was FOUR harps in one 4 hour gig. expensive when you get paid not much more than the price of a harp most times out!
|
oldwailer
1080 posts
Feb 21, 2010
10:37 PM
|
SB60--yeah--I think it was Teddy Roosevelt who said "Go forth and blow softly--but carry a big-assed volume knob". . .
|
MP
3 posts
Feb 21, 2010
10:52 PM
|
i have a MB crossover with the bamboo comb and it's completely awesome. best version of the marine band ever. but,if you blow a lot of reeds i doubt it will withstand your air pressure. i don't think any harp will. i used to blow out a lot of reeds. i haven't blown one in years and the above advice is on the money. i replace reeds. maybe you ought to get into reed replacement. seydel makes a great repair kit that also works on hohners, lee oscars, and various other makes. if you've saved your broken harps you're already set-up with parts. good luck.
|
Ant138
328 posts
Feb 21, 2010
11:46 PM
|
Their right, i've never blown a reed in 4 years.
In the title you mention Hohner Pro, if its the Pro Harp your refering to , get rid. I have a Hohner Pro harp In B and its the cheapest, worst harp i own.
I learnt on a Lee Oskar and found them tough as hell,(in a good way) Very durable. I now play Seydels but i dont think they would be right for you just yet, alot of people who blow out reeds do it even quicker on a Seydel although i've never blown one out.
If your playing with a band make sure your amplified, alot of people blow reeds when their trying to play as loud as the band with no amp and mike.
Someone said on the forum the other day but i forget who "if there is more than one instrument, you gotta mike up"
----------
Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2010 11:55 PM
|
nacoran
1181 posts
Feb 21, 2010
11:59 PM
|
Play softer and amp up. I've only ever blown a reed playing along with a louder instrument un-amped. Lee Oskars have a good reputation for being durable, although I understand they are harder to overblow. If you are setting up your harps, and you are still having problems, try gapping the harps a little higher. The harp will be less responsive, but you will be less likely to blow a reed, but most of all, play softer! When you get rich and famous and you can afford to blow out your harps, then blow as hard as you want. :)
|
hvyj
150 posts
Feb 22, 2010
5:22 AM
|
Create all air pressure from your diaphragm NOT your lips and mouth. RELAX your throat and jaw (actually keep your lower jaw dropped to open up the oral resonance chamber). Once upon a time, before I learned to do this, I'd blow out a harp in a weekend of playing if it was a regularly used key. It's not just a matter of not blowing/drawing as hard--it also has a lot to do with HOW you create the air stream.
I used to play Hohner pro harps. The MS Pro harps are not terrific harps, but the problem is with your breath technique, not the instrument.
Last Edited by on Feb 22, 2010 5:26 AM
|
barbequebob
523 posts
Feb 22, 2010
8:01 AM
|
Southbound 60, it's time for some tough love here. Forget the harp being your problem, because in no uncertain terms, it's YOUR PLAYING TECHNIQUE. It's blatantly obvious that you're using FAR TOO MUCH breath force in your playing all the time, and when you bend notes, your breath force is getting tremendously harder, making this situation 100 times WORSE.
Along with that, you're playing very physically uptight, which heavily constricts the air flow, and thins the tone out and kills your projection.
Breath force is a problem with 98% of newbies and 50-75% of intermediate players, and almost none of the EVER think they're playing too hard until a very experience pro hits them with the cold, hard, brutal truth.
Along with that, you're most likely also bending all the way to the floor of the bend, so that puts added UNNCECESSARY stress on the reeds, and also I'd bet money that all of your bends are very badly out of tune because using too much force sacrifices ALL control of them.
What happens from breath force being too hard all the time is that you put so much needless stress on the reed (and this is made WORSE by upping the force while bending notes), microscopic cracks form on the reeds AKA stress fractures, and once this starts, there's NO WAY that metal repairs itself, and the only thing it does is that it gets larger and larger, so the pitch gets flatter until it goes into total metal fatigue, gets blown out, and in a worst case scenerio, the reed breaks apart.
What does this mean? In a nutshell, playing with too much force DAMAGES the instrument, and in no uncertain terms, it is flat out BAD PLAYING TECHNIQUE and as long as you keep playing like that, this is gonna follow you forever and every harp will blow out quick on you REGARDLESS of the manufacturer or customizer.
What's the right amount of force? Basically playing just loud enough that you don't wake up a baby sleeping in the next room. What you're doing is the equivalent of constantly shouting all the time and everyone knows for a FACT that if you keep doing that, you will form nodes on your vocal chords and blow out your voice, and this is basically what you're doing to your harps.
Blaming the instrument is the easy way out, and nothing short of a flat out cop out. The vast majority of players who use too much breath force get quickly winded, have a thin tone, poor agility, can't bend properly in pitch, and oh yes, blow out harps at a rapid rate, and many of them all blame the instrument.
If manufacturers really took a hard line in terms of warranty, and a usual line is that they're voided if the instrument is abused, all they'd have to do is put the reeds inder a microscope and the minute they see the stress fractures, it clearly falls under the abusive category and you'd totally void the warranty.
When I was giving lessons, I had them play a bit to see where they were at, and just about every single one of them played WAY TOO HARD, and I'd tell them, "Why the hell are you yelling at me?" They'd have a puzzled look on their face, and then I explained why I said that, and so this is EXACTLY what you're doing.
You're also making the classic macho caveman mistake when playing with the band of using force to play louder, which is THE WRONG THING TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not very smart, and that makes the problem worse, and you need to let the amp do the "heavy lifting."
Better harps have tighter reed slot tolerances, and the tighter they are, the LESS breath force needed to play them, but in the hands of a poorly skilled player using too much breath force, they can VERY QUICKLY get blown out.
What does this come down to? Time to completely reexamine your playing technique and learn to play much softer ASAP or it's only gonna get worse, no ifs, ands, or buts, and no excuses, because this is the cold, hard, brutal truth.
What you've seen posted here by everybody else is all 100% the truth and its time to face it.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Feb 22, 2010 10:18 AM
|
Jaybird
118 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:26 AM
|
I wonder if Magic Dick has a problem with blown out reeds.
----------
www.Youtube.com/Jaybird33066
|
congaron
556 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:33 AM
|
playing with the absolute LEAST air that will make the reed sound can help you identify reeds that are way off the gap you need to have consistent play too. It's pretty amazing to me how little air it really takes to play. I play a lot at work with a huge machine running and often play with earplugs in just so i can hear myself play without blowing and drawing so hard. At home, it takes very little air, indeed, to play a song if the harp is gapped consistently for you playing style.
|
HarpNinja
200 posts
Feb 22, 2010
9:46 AM
|
I hardly ever blow reeds on anything less than a couple of years old...and I play out almost every week. Granted I do need to tune from time to time, but...
The advice of not playing so hard is paramount!!!! You can play loudly and aggressively while keeping it easy on your harps. It is all about, like the above have mentioned, hitting your bends in tune and with efficient air flow (and a relaxed posture).
I am not a mover and shaker when I play, but I am in a band that plays a lot of rock as well as blues. I don't use a large amp and I can usually hold my own. One thing I practiced from early on was playing in front of a mirror. This wasn't to make sure I looked fun to watch but was playing with good posture.
Head level, shoulders relaxed, breathing from the gut, and keeping my head still. I still tilt my head down sometimes, but my chin isn't in my chest. I am also not dancing all over the place.
I get why guys like Duane Allman, Derek Trucks, and a slew of jazz players play from such a still position. I think that sort of relaxed focus really keeps the tension out of play and is easier on the harps.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
barbequebob
524 posts
Feb 22, 2010
10:20 AM
|
Jaybird, the average player who tries what Masgic Dick does on the high end of Whammer Jammer are nearly always playing it too hard and bend all the way to the floor of the bend, and having met Dick a few times, he actually plays it MUCH softer than you think he does and by doing this and NOT going to the very floor of the bend, he's also able to hit the 10 blow bend with a vibrato, something that if you play too hard and bend all the way too the floor of the bend, you absolutely CAN'T do.
----------
Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
|
MP
4 posts
Feb 22, 2010
11:19 AM
|
oops, forget what i said about the seydel kit. the reed popper won't work on MS harps like the pro and the real problem is obvious. also,re-getting custom harps. if you blow too hard on a custom harp it will probably not work on the blow reeds at all. it'll choke or go into a nether world between an overblow and noise. once a player actually complained to me about his richard sleigh and filisko harps not accepting epic blasts of air. i thought his harps were great. so there you have it....
|
HarpNinja
207 posts
Feb 22, 2010
11:28 AM
|
Regarding Whammer Jammer...if you're harp is at all set up well, that blow bend can be played very, very easily and without much pressure.
----------
Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
|
MP
5 posts
Feb 22, 2010
12:56 PM
|
i used to always destroy my 9 and 10 holes on whammer j. till i refined my technique. also it helps tons to gap properly. the MS series is the worst out of box harp. but that doesn't mean they're not durable. they're OK if you tweak 'em(they get totally loud) and they can take a hell of a lot of abuse. so, the amount of air needed to blow any reed on an MS,-we're talking big wide and possibly thicker? reeds( correct me if i'm wrong)-impresses me. maybe tenor sax is a good thing to double on. that excess wind would be great for the right hand low octave. it has no place in harp playing. speaking of abuse, sorry 'bout the sax crack (60)but i couldn't resist.
|
Rick Davis
232 posts
Feb 22, 2010
1:40 PM
|
"Breath force is a problem with 98% of newbies and 50-75% of intermediate players" -- BBQ Bob
Yes, and 87.426 percent of statistics are made up on the spot!
Playing WAY TOO loud and bending too far is hard on reeds. Playing even medium volume is hard on reeds over time. As Gary Smith says, we have to destroy the harp to play the blues. Playing very softly preserves the reeds but sounds like crap. So we have a dilemma here.
Every working pro harp guy I know blows out harps on a regular basis (or has them regularly serviced by a pro tuner). That's why a Hohner endorsement is so valuable: You get new harps for half price. James Cotton uses an entire set of new harps for every show.
Some players choose to play louder than others. It's not a flaw in their technique, it is an artistic choice. If a harp occasionally must be replaced, so be it. I don't think we need to browbeat and ridicule every new player the first time he blows a reed in his Pro Harp.
----------
-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
|
Honkin On Bobo
199 posts
Feb 22, 2010
2:08 PM
|
Rick,
Thanks for that. I was beginning to feel like a harp idiot.
|
MP
10 posts
Feb 24, 2010
2:12 PM
|
you're right rick. gotta back pedal.especially about my "no place in harp playing" statement. that was stupid. apologies 60. one need look no further than james cotton. his 'the creeper creeps again' is heavy, hard, playing in the extreme, and that is only one example. 60 must think we're all a buncha wankers. i repair harps and #4 and #5 are common blow outs or in bad need of tuning.
|
sorin
144 posts
Feb 24, 2010
9:56 PM
|
Honkin , just because Rick says something that makes you feel good ,doesn't mean it is the truth.
|
nacoran
1231 posts
Feb 24, 2010
10:09 PM
|
You can always play harder when you have more money! There are different sounds on harp. Some people play hard, some people play soft and let the amp to the lifting.
If you can figure out a way to get the sound you want without blowing out harps, so much the better, so a more useful question might be what sort of tone are you looking; is there some sound in particular that you want.
Once people know what sound your going for we can argue about how to get that sound.
|
Post a Message
|
