I'm having an interesting interchange on YouTube with Yuri Lane, one of the innovators of Harpboxing, and a YouTube poster extraordinaire. I wanted to get the discussion rolling over here about him, and about the idea of harpboxing in general. It's my opinion that dudes like Yuri are coming from the beatboxing side, and dudes like Brandon Bailey are coming from the harp playing side, but no one has achieve the "perfect marriage" of the two yet. I also happen to think that if/when that "perfect marriage" happens, that shit is going to be off the hook!
Here's Yuri's signature piece recorded in 2007:
Here's some newer stuff showing off his improvements in his harp playing:
Just for reference, here's Brandon Bailey dong some harpboxing:
And here is LD Miller, Brendan Power, Jay Gaunt, and Christelle doing their "ultimate harp jam" at the last SPAH:
So, what do you guy's think about this? FYI, I've invited Yuri to come check out this forum and this thread... Let's hope he does so...
You know who's amazing? Greg Pattillo. He doesn't play harp, but he's a great flute player and he's a great beatboxer. Talk about a "perfect marriage" of the two skills. The way he combines them is absolutely amazing, and Yuri Lane's stuff with the harp isn't even in the same league. You all should go check him out, he has a number of things on youtube. I'd embed one of his videos here but I can't seem to pick a favorite.
Thanks Ryan, I def will check out Greg. That sound very cool. Yes, I agree that Yuri NEEDS to improve his harp skills in order to get to that next level, just the same that those of us who are going down the same path NEED to improve our beatboxing skills.
I think Yuri's tone and style would be improved by some dirty amped sounds. His harp is too clean, and thus sounds all jangly and countrified. This is accentuated by the fact that he is mostly playing in first position with the major or pentatonic scale. He rarely hits any blue notes, his note inflections are stiff (ie. he does not bend into and out of notes), and he relies a lot on that in-out-in-out breathing pattern for both chordal playing and his single note runs. All of this makes the playing sound very old fashioned, which is a bit jarring when juxtaposed against the beatboxing (which is a very modern sound). Amping it up and making it dirty will help this a bit, I should think. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2010 11:41 AM
My post got swallowed! Oh well, I love this stuff. My dream setup would be a mixing board, a multi-effect pedal, a stomp box, a loop pedal, a talking box and a box of harps.
I'm all for it. I found Yuri on YouTube a couple of years ago and thought he was great,i think he was some sort of pioneer with it cos i didn't see many others doing it at the time). Now i've improved on the Harp i definatly think Yuri needs to get his harp chops up but he's a good Beatboxer and he does what he does very well. To the average non harp playing person im sure they dont even notice the imperfections on the harp and why should they. I say fair play to the guy, he's obviously having a blast so why not?
I wish i could Beatbox like him.
As for the video with L.D miller, Brendon Power etc that blows my mind every time i watch it(i think Jonsparrow has put that up here a couple of times). I would love to know what Beatbox/rhythm L.D is playing through that video, amazing!!! ----------
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2010 12:13 PM
I think you're exactly right, Isaac. I think Yuri's video touched on something in the public that yearns for the combination you're talking about. His video had several hundred thousand hits, or maybe way more than that. I think he won a YouTubey, or whatever the YouTube equivalent of a Grammy is. A People's choice award.
And I think Brandon is finding his way towards his own mix of these elements.
Adam: SWEET! Actually, with your signature percussive coughs, we ought to actually include you as one of the ORIGINAL innovators of the harpboxing style. What influence, if any did the 1980's B-Boy culture of New York city influence you? I mean, you must have cross paths with this kind of stuff when you were playing down in Harlem, right? ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
jon, nope. I'm sure it's a D. LD is using a key of D natural minor harp (playing in 2 pos A minor). Some of the other players are definitely also using a normal D harp in 2nd pos. You can hear someone saying in the background "Here's a D harp". It is possible that one or more of t hem is also using a G harp in 3rd or a F in 5th. Maybe even a an E in 12th (the overblow playing of Jay Gaunt throws me when I try to identify position). Either way, I'm positive the tune is in A. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Here's a quote from LD himself from the comments on that vid: "Hey its Ld Miller. Thanks for posting this this was at like 330am. i busted out the beatbox im playing Seydel? Harmonicas ( THE BEST HARMONICAS IN THE WORLD) But the key im in is Dbm a natural minor. its a seydel, There amazing. "
Db natural minor is a strange key to have on hand, though, isn't it? A D natral minor is much more popular, and fits in with more standard keys... I'll have to do a head to head, my harp against the sound of his harp. ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Had to stop the first two vids, too much daft posturing and abrasive tone, and direction-less playing (to my ears, anyway).
Brandon's I thought was fantastic, an effortlessly stylish piece.
Enjoyed the vid you put up too isaac, and the SPAH one of course!
Perhaps the key to it is that the percussive stuff has to come naturally and be in keeping with the piece. If you just arbitrarily set out to make a beatbox/harp thing it is unlikely to work I'd say.
Junior Wells used a lot of percussive beatbox type outbreaths in his funky stuff back in the 60's, Sonny Terry has his hooting, and in the old train songs and foxchases there were a lot of rhythmic noises made with the mouth besides playing harp, so in a way harp boxing isn't all together new.
I think it is most cool when it accentuates a groove on the harp as opposed to when the harp is merely accentuating a beat. ---------- http://www.youtube.com/1shanester
@nacoran: T He problem is, I don't know if his reference to Dbm is the harp key or the 2nd pos key. You know they sometimes label those natural minor harps by their 2nd pos key... If it's the 1st pos key that is Dbm, then it makes the 2nd pos key Abm/F#m, right? The relative minor to A? Ahhhh... I give up! ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
isaacullah!, great post and video you do that very well. Maybe I'll give it a shot starting this weekend. I also like Brandon's performance & the ultimate harp jam with LD Miller.
I might have to go with jon on yuri's stuff though. He sure can beatbox but not liking the harp playing. Though it would be cool to get more tips on this technique.
I think it's a fun fancy thing but I'm not sure I'd do harpboxing on any stage kinda like nakah-tukah train riffs. Doesn't sound too musical to me. It's the other stuff that Brandon & the ultimate harp jam gang do around that beatbox chord that makes it enjoyable, in my opinion.
---------- ~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
I always thought this one was fun. Harp is at 2:30
So I suppose beatboxing.....errr....HARPboxing is just taking the Sonny Terry thing to the next level. The problem I hear, Is that it is just too much. Too much beatbox and too much harp. I imagine if used for short fills, it would be more interesting. I think that is why it worked with the LD miller vid. The beatboxig laid down a rhythm that the others could play over. Looping works for Son of Dave and Brandon but I think it looses something in the translation. Anyway it is going to be really cool to watch this evolve. ---------- The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2010 4:15 PM
Jon, I had another think through, and if LD is mainly playing the -1234 draw chord and the song is in Dbm, then it makes total sense that a B harp would work because he'd be playing in 3rd position, and Db is the 3rd pos. key on a B harp. I changed my post above to reflect this.... ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
the room to move live solo by mayall predates all this by a good bit. he goes from an actual song, but ends up doing beat box in the middle bit. start around 2:20, he does more of it in some versions. mayall is also a good example of how far tone and technique have come
Good post Ryan. Shows you can beatbox and play a melody. But if you think about it it is all blow notes. I suppose it is much harder to play draw notes and beatbox. Maybe that is why Yuri Lane plays mainly blow notes and in and Out rhythms rather than using lots of draw and or blues notes. ---------- The Art Teacher Formally Known As scstrickland
Isaac- Yeah, I know, it can be a pain. The Oskars list the 1st position on the front and the cross harp on the end. If I was stamping my own covers I'd have the circle of fifths stamped on the top, but have it rotated so that the appropriate key would be on top, and probably in a bigger font.
One of the things I keep running into in harp is that there don't seem to be well know common words for things it would be useful to have common words for. Someone was commenting the other day in a thread that when he asked his guitar player for the key the guitar player would sometimes give him the cross key instead of the straight key. We run into the same problem when we talk about tongue positions in the mouth. I'm sure there is a word for them, probably in phonics studies, but they haven't made it over into the harp world. I get the same problem when describing cover shapes for harps too. MB's have a sandwich design, but what do you call the cover shape for a GM or a Seydel Blues Favorite?
It would be easy for a beatboxer to pick up the harmonica and start "harpboxing" all you gotta do is trills and bends and people will be like OH YAH BLUES.
I do give Yuri credit, when I came across his vids I don't recall seeing anyone do what he was doing. He found a road not too well traveled and then he grabbed on and refused to let go. I like that.
Ant: That beardyman vid was super cool! Covering michael jackson.... damn....
Ryan: That beatbox flute was quite interesting... If only he was playing a cooler instrument than the flute! LOL! :)
Stickman:"I suppose it is much harder to play draw notes and beatbox." Actually, I find that it is just the opposite, for me anyway. My beatboxing is mainly out breaths, so it's easier to just play draw on the harp while breathing in in between the beats. Good beatboxers can make the same sounds while breathing in as they can while breathing out, so they have less problem with air capacity issues (very similar to harp playing). Actually, this ability to make beats on an in or an out breath makes it VERY compatible with playing harp. I might make another little vid to show my meager attempt at playing single notes and bends in between beats... It'll have to be later though, cause I'm at work right now.... ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Well, the whole beat box thing isn't so crazy, as hiphop artist Public Enemy has already sampled parts from two Muddy Waters albums: After the Rain and Electric Mud. There was someone else (who's name I can't recall at the moment) sampled the opening instrumental chorus of BB King's The Thrill Is Gone about 8 years ago. To work with the beat box thing, you gotta remember is that hiphop 95% of the time NEVER uses a band, but almost all sampling, and to work with that, you just can't play lines that don't groove because if it doesn't, it sounds like crap. A player of limited skill who plays their stuff with a perfect underlying sense of groove happening 24/7/365 is gonna more easily come across than just someone throwing licks and technqiue together that flat out doesn't groove and that's a big thing about hiphop vocals, and that HAS to groove. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Well, here is a guy who has been around for along time--and he has an excellent instructional video out on playing music that reminds me a lot of the current beatbox and harpbox stuff. His video would at least be a great way to get started on this genre:
I`d also like to hear harp on one of the very newest of Latin music genres and that`s reggaeton, which in a very over simplified description is sort of like latino hiphop. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Hi Bro's i just don't know i give the Bro's Props for being able to play the harmonica thats the ones that can play it,,Madcat can play for sure all those Bluegrass chicka ta chicka ta rythms sonny terry whoops but the rest to me made a mockery of the harmonica i truly think this is the worst mockery of my loved instrument,,the Spah vid cool the guy can play but playing the Harmonica in this style is limiting but with the great backing groove with every one playing around it has its place,,his biggest challeng is to incorporate it in his songs get it to flow into the next tune or stop do a full on beat box break then flow back into the Harmonica rythm,,Yuri well another insult to my beloved instrument does nothing for me he should do one or the other,,well no he should just learn to beatbox leave the Harmonica alone,,Ok all that said Ive done the right thing i been youtubeing there is some amazing things going on in the world of beatboxing,,after watching real beatboxers the Harmonica Beatboys got nothing on the real deal yet..Just makeing a mockery of my Beloved insrument takeing it back to the days when you bought them at the local Paper shop as toys,,i know i need to embrace all musical styles but im being a snob and wont except it for now as being of any musical talent.PS these are my opinions and opinions from my Heart..
Last Edited by on Feb 05, 2010 3:56 PM
@bob "To work with the beat box thing, you gotta remember is that hiphop 95% of the time NEVER uses a band, but almost all sampling, and to work with that, you just can't play lines that don't groove because if it doesn't, it sounds like crap. "
Yes! For hip hop, GROOVE is the most important thing. It's very rhythmic, and a lot of the best tracks take a drum breakdown (like the breakdown in "funky drummer" from James Brown's drummer) and loop that, emphasizing aspects of the beat with scratching and then making melody with samples. Any harp that's going to work over that has to have TIGHT groove. This is where a dude like Adam has an advantage. He has been laying down some of the funkyiest, groove-oriented, harp lines that have ever been recorded.
And for guys like me who are home players that never played with a band, I think this whole deal is especially attractive since it seems like something you could actually pull off very well as a solo deal, especially given the state of technology of samplers and loopers these days.
And YES, harp in Reggaetone would be AWESOME!
I would also draw inspiration from the "one chord" grooves of guys like Robert Belfour and RL Burnside. I actually think RL was heading down this melding of Hip Hop Blues and Punk before anyone else was.... ---------- ------------------ The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Nastyolddog, some of your opinions, in all due respect, reminds me of how many of the old time chromatic players thought about diatonic harmonicas and the people who played them, and many of those old schol chromatic guys came from the era of the all harmonica bands like Borrah Minevitch's Harmonica Rascals, Johnny Puleo, Jerry Murad's Harmonicats, etc., all of whom I have the utmost respect for and then some, but those players (actually not tpros playing them, but more like the fan/hobbyists) put up a snob wall and eventually, they never adapted the instrument particularly well to anything else and I've heard a few of those guys diss a jazz virtuoso like Toots Thielemans for things like he plays too fast and damned near everything else in between, and a part of the attitude stems from the fact that music may no longer reflect their past or the days of their youth and this happens within every generation and many people are unwilling to admit and/or deal with it.
What those guys wound up doing is turning the chromatic into almost too much of a niche instrument and in the last 50 years, diatonic playing has made strides into areas where it was once thought as clearly the domain of the chromatic.
I may be a tradtional blues musician by trade, by harmonica is by NO means a blues ONLY instrument and thinking that way is completely wrong. Early in the 20th century, Larry Adler was the first guy playing classical music on the harmonica and no one back then thought that was possible at all, so why not see the instrument in other areas.
Snobbiness HURTS the instrument and as long as that happens, in doing that, it dooms the instrument for future generations. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Yo BBQB reading between the lines Bro i pulled on some heart strings,,no sir i don't yearn for the past this is not blinding me..i've re edited my comment please re read focus on 2 simple words YET NOW this inicates im willing to excepte all musical styles ok it's in it youth true and a ruff cut dimonde,,Do i think one of todays Pro's could pick this up and blast us away Yes and in a very short time Hint Hint just waiting for the next Gusso YT-clip..Ok i saw Yuri Lane in his first clips on Youtube to me he hasn't advanced very far over the years and i would like to see him do a full beatbox session then play a Harmonica 12 bar or Solo or something to show us he has masterd both instruments,,The guy in the spah vid demonstrates this Props to him Bro like i say there needs to be work done with Harmonica Beatboxing so the rythme dose not break keep that Groove happening it's going to be hard doing it Solo but Im sure it will happen,,I'm with Issac this technic in the right hands with a massive effects loop board and other wizz bang pedeals could get some crazy shit happening,,when i was a youge bloke going to my first Blues concert when i walked in the Door Bang Pow smack i was Blown away i walked away saying Man i got to do that i love it,,i want Harmonica Beatboxing to do this i know i must wait it will happen,,Ps i think Sonny Terry is todays Best Harmonica Beatboxer..Find me some one like ST Today Blow me away,,Do i yearn for the past No way man!!!! well anyway I'm going to listen to some real music Frank Frost & some Pappa Lightfoot..Ps BBQB Bro i have taken no offence to your reply to my comments it's all cool..
Hey Isaac, thanks for the video. It looks like you got that beat down, i cant wait to try it out. I'm gona order a minor harp today. Unfortunantly my lung has decided to punture itself again, so im under strict orders to rest it for a while but i cant wait to give it ago. Thanks again. ----------
