timeistight
1590 posts
Jun 23, 2014
10:43 AM
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eebadeeb wrote: "I think 'tongue blocking' should only refer to U-blocking. Tongue to one side blocking should be tongue-puckering and tongue center blocking should be tongue-pucker splitting."
Last Edited by timeistight on Jun 23, 2014 2:50 PM
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mr_so&so
840 posts
Jun 23, 2014
10:44 AM
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Since harpdude61 asks, I TB 100%, but don't tilt (at least not that I am aware of). I've tried tilting, but don't agree with Dave Barrett that it makes much difference, at least not to me, at this point in my development.
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Diggsblues
1388 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:04 AM
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This thread has me dizzy.This a clear example of
talking about music and hearing it.
Some sound examples might be helpful.
I use tongue block and purse or spit or whatever.
I have no idea what lip block is.
In purse your lips block the holes so what is different in lip block?
I don't tell people to tilt the harmonica.
I think the airflow would be different for
each plate when you do that and I think it's embouchure
that changes inside the mouth that should do the
work.
In the end it's the art you create that counts.
Emile
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tmf714
2602 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:30 AM
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@eebadeeb -and timeistight
No-tongue blocking is tongue blocking as reffered to for decades-I am NOT halfing anything-my cheek is blocking the remaining holes on the harmonica-not my lip or mouth.
No one uses a "pucker" method when tongue blocking-it's contradictory to the meaning of "tongue blocking".
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 11:40 AM
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shadoe42
303 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:33 AM
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Side note for clarity - U blocking is the technique Norton Buffalo used correct? that being shaping the tongue into a U shape to play single notes?
I have always heard it described that way where as Tongue Blocking is using the FLAT of the tongue to block one or MORE holes at once.
I think this conversation has not done much other than to muddy up the waters a bit (pun unintentional)...
In the end if it sounds good...keep doing it :)
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Dr. Rev. Mr. Cheeks Miller
My Electronic Music World
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tmf714
2603 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:36 AM
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You can use the flat or underside of the tongue-I was taught by a master to use the tip-as shown in my diagram.
And yes-Norton used U blocking among other techniques as well.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 11:36 AM
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CarlA
534 posts
Jun 23, 2014
11:50 AM
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The orbicularis oris muscle is responsible for puckering, or pursing the lips.
In terms of functionality, whether you TB, lip purse(block), or U-block, you are utilizing the orbicularis oris muscle. The only difference is degrees in which the muscle contracts, or "purses".
I think it's silly to argue over lip pursing -vs- blocking, but here on MBH we all love to swallow the camels and strain out the gnats.
Just my 1 cent.
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STME58
937 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:30 PM
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Reminds me of Gullivers Travels where the Little Endians and the Big Endians are at war with one another over which end an egg should be cracked open on!
I think is is because both ways work that there is such lively discussion about which is better. I have noticed in engineering that we frequently spend the most time discussing the things that matter least. There are things to be learned in these detailed discussions, even if it may not matter that much to the end result, as long as they don't descend into sectarian violence!
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eebadeeb
58 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:31 PM
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@tmf714
the right side of the mouth in the diagram you posted is doing exactly what the right side of a lip pursing mouth would be doing. The lip is pursed around the right side of the note.
I understand what is traditional tongue block but the name is not completely accurate whether you use the tip or the top or the bottom you still only block half of what needs blocked to play a single not. Of course we know TBers are not puckering one side of their mouth, but the OP is making a point that lip blockers are not puckering either and a clear descriptive term should be used to communicate the difference.
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OzarkRich
522 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:40 PM
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After reading the previous posts I will concur that it is the lower inner lip that is blocking the holes on either side. To play double stops I simply tense up one side of my mouth slightly and both sides for chords.
While it is obvious that some would prefer more generalized terminology of simply tongue or lip, I prefer more precise terminology and have enjoyed this thread as I've learned about the details of how I play and what more I can incorporate into my playing.
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Ozark Rich
__________
##########
Ozark Rich's YouTube
Ozark Rich's Facebook
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tmf714
2607 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:43 PM
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Are you speaking of the tongue block diagram?
If so-the mouth is around 4 holes-I block the left three with my tongue,allowing the open hole-4-to sound.
Lips are not involved in the process. The corner of the mouth maybe,bot not the lips.
If you are "pursing" ,you are looking to sound a note by blocking the others out with your lips-or directing the airflow through a small opening in you mouth.
If you want a free Skype lesson,let me know.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 12:44 PM
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Frank
4633 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:44 PM
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Cheek blocking can be incorporated :)
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tmf714
2608 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:45 PM
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Indeed -as I stated in my post-and it works very well for me.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 12:47 PM
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STME58
940 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:49 PM
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The last lesson I had on how to get a good seal on a mike incorporated cheek blocking and thumb blocking to seal the holes that are not in your mouth.
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Frank
4634 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:54 PM
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Yes, finger blocking is legitimate too :)
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eebadeeb
59 posts
Jun 23, 2014
12:56 PM
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@tmf714
I believe cheeks are outside of the lips. The edge of your mouth opening is a lip. Your cheek can block some holes beyond your mouth but whether you call it a mouth corner or a lip, the edge of your mouth opening is preventing breath from reaching the harp holes, the same as lip purse.
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tmf714
2609 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:01 PM
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Nope-I can do it with the harp on the egde of my lips as well,where no holes are blocked by anything other than my tongue-Skype me if you want-seriously.
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timeistight
1591 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:02 PM
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@tmf714: I wasn't agreeing with eebadeeb; I think his redefinition is silly.
I'm with Alice on the word meaning issue, not with Humpty-Dumpty!
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tmf714
2610 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:09 PM
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Sorry time-I just saw the post at the top of the page-but I agree with you-it is absurd.
Maybe this will help-especially the tongue block trainer-
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eebadeeb
60 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:11 PM
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You're saying you can play a single note near the middle of the harp with no lips touching the harp? The only thing touching the harp is your tongue?
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tmf714
2611 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:15 PM
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That's correct-the harp is resting in my mouth. Of course its between the upper nad lower lip,but the lips are not involved in tongue blocking other than that.
Last Edited by tmf714 on Jun 23, 2014 1:17 PM
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eebadeeb
61 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:27 PM
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I've watched many tongue block vids and I tongue block just fine with ease. I also lip block. Of course the descriptive terms I mentioned are silly. But the point that traditional tongue blocking is actually the same on one side of the mouth as lip blocking is a valid point.
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tmf714
2613 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:38 PM
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Not really-but if you want to think that-its ok.
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eebadeeb
62 posts
Jun 23, 2014
1:41 PM
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Would I be correct to say then, that the sides of the mouth are not lips?
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CarlA
535 posts
Jun 23, 2014
2:20 PM
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This guy is an amazing harp player. His tone is rich and full! He is a 100% tongue blocker, Chicago blues style!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-7N_Ko9e3pQ
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1847
1886 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:10 PM
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can we please end this silliness, and go back to
picking on jason?
after all, the cowboys are going to trounce the saints
in dallas this year, with their new offensive tackle,
zack martin, unquestionably, the best cheek blocker
that has ever graced the gridiron.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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kudzurunner
4751 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:30 PM
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I've read through most of the thread and I don't believe anybody has explained what it is that lip blocking actually adds to the mix, apart from the fact that it's....different.
TB and LP each enable a somewhat different set of proficiencies. LP won't allow one to play splits, for example. You need the tongue on the harp--TB--to do that. Nor will LP allow you to do the sort of split-based counter-rhythms that TB enables (as Glenn Weiser demonstrates.) (And please note: I specified "split-based" counterrhythms. There are other sorts of counterrhythms that LP enables quite well; I do some of them.)
By the same token, TB doesn't lend itself easily or naturally to trumpet techniques (double- and triple-tonguing, Magic Dick style. Very fast dih-dih-dit, dih-dih-dits). Nor is does it enable overblowing, easily, in the way that LP does, which is why the great majority of overblowers, as far as I know, tend to LP.
Please note: I'm describing general tendencies here. There are exceptions to pretty much every rule.
So what does lip blocking (LB, I guess) add to the mix? What does it enable you to do, technically, that would attract a LP or TB player away from one or both of those basic orientations?
Or is it just...different?
Tone alone won't seal the deal. Both LP and TB enable excellent tone, if the player knows what he's doing.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 23, 2014 4:33 PM
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isaacullah
2829 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:57 PM
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Adam, did you have a look at my videos? I think they explain pretty well how the lip block can add chordal slaps. I maintain that most people can't keep a true "pucker" while doing that. I bet you don't either, especially considering that I learned the technique from one of your videos! Plus, lip blocking allows you to keep your mouth open wider than a pucker. Try it and see. And in think the ONE thing no one argues about is that the wider the oral cavity, the bigger the tone you get.
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 23, 2014 7:06 PM
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harpdude61
2029 posts
Jun 23, 2014
4:58 PM
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Kudzu...personally, I think it enables the player to move easier between singles notes lip blocked and tongue blocked splits. The fact that the lips and front of the mouth are relaxed lends to this. This is me. Does anyone change the angle of tilt to go between singe pursed notes and TB splits?
I'll stay away from tone. You have great tone when you single note purse.
I do feel that it is easier to control bends, blow and draw because you are relaxed a bit more, but mainly because you have a larger mass of air at your disposal.
After watching Christelle and Jason, I honestly believe that the overbend world is much bigger for a lip blocker. Again, more air available because of a larger resonator and relaxation. I know I'm not in your league by a long shot. I do, however pride myself in where this embouchure has taken my overbends. Bending overblows, adding vibrato, even double stops with overblows are there. I use the 7 overdraw most any song I play 2nd position in the upper register. Bending up 1/2 step and wailing away is there from a low F to a high G. Hitting on pitch is there. Just another bendable note to me that is muscle memory like the 2 draw bend.
One topic that has not been discussed much is the diameter of the "hose" or "tunnel" that supplies air for blowing and draw. You can have a big open diaphragm and throat with any embouchure, but do you reduce the air flow volume in the mouth. With lip blocking and tilted harp, open relaxed mouth with tongue down out of the way constricts the air much less. Less work from the bottom to actually make a note sound.
Again, I'm not saying this is best. MANY great players purse with a level harp. I'm curious again. DO full time 100% TBers mostly tilt?
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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harpdude61
2030 posts
Jun 23, 2014
5:21 PM
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One addition..with the harp tilted as a lip blocker, it seems like a laser line between the center of the hole on the harp and the center of the throat opening. More ergonomic and efficient.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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nacoran
7826 posts
Jun 23, 2014
5:24 PM
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Drat, it ate my post!!!
I think LB causing less friction. I've tried to describe how I do warbles, and it's definitely LB. I've even describe having a pocket of air/gap between my top lip and the harp, not to let extra air in or out, but so the top lip doesn't get ripped up.
For tone, I'd use LB for legato stuff, LP for bending (because I'm a lousy TB bender) and TB for all the splits and slaps. I would, generally speaking, not use a tight cup for the stuff I'd LP for. It would be cappuccino playing- pinkies up off the harp. The only song I can think of I play that way is Annie Lennox's 'Love Song for a Vampire'.
I was talking with Christelle once, back when I was still talking with Christelle about why we shove harps so far back into our mouths, and she agreed with my theory- for whatever reason, the farther into your mouth you stick your harp the easier it is to control those tiny little pulses you get when your breath support is a little off. You can get good tone LP (and playing quietly) but you have to be ultra-vigilant about your air flow. That said, for a pure, sweet note, I'd go LP (as long as I didn't have to switch to another note quick.)
My other post was so much better. This is a tribute to my other post.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
First Post- May 8, 2009
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jnorem
312 posts
Jun 23, 2014
5:33 PM
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Here are a couple of photos illustrating my lip purse/pucker embouchure.
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Call me J
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STME58
941 posts
Jun 23, 2014
5:38 PM
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I think Adam sums up the differences quite well. I can't think of anything he did not list than can only be done with one embouchure or the other. I come at the harp from trombone so I gravitated to LB so I could continue to use brass tonguing effects. I learned to TB order to achieve splits, slaps and pulls. Because I started out LP and have more experience with it, bends are easier for me LP. I am working on improving TB bends just for the sake of versatility .
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harpdude61
2031 posts
Jun 23, 2014
6:44 PM
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STME58...Did you notice mine and Isaacullah's post in response to Adam?
It's not always about "can you do both"...but can this or that be done more effectively with one or the other.
If you can draw bend more effectively with lip pursing than you can lip blocking then you were doing it a completely different way than I do. To me, two draw bend actually takes less effort than two draw unbent using lip block. For reasons I can't explain the deep vibrato comes easier lip blocking on bent notes. Very easy to change the speed of vibrato as well. Again..the volume of air and the fact that I throat bend my be a part of it.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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STME58
943 posts
Jun 23, 2014
8:14 PM
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As Iceman said, "There are many paths up the mountain".
It would not surprise me at all if my technique for bending is different from harpdude61's. I do something with an LP embouchure that I don't do when I TB. Right now my TB bending is about where my LP bending was a year into learning to play. It is improving fast as I focus on it.
If I understand the physics of bending correctly, one of the main factors is the volume of the oral cavity. There are many ways to change this volume. The way I think I am doing it is probably not really the way I am doing it. Bending is biofeedback. When I do something that works I hear it so I learn to do that. What I think I am doing, opening my throat, raising the back of my tongue etc, may may nothing to with what is actually happening. The part of my brain that controls muscles and the part that hear are working together and experimenting to get the bend, and they know immediately when something works. Whatever theory I have in my conscious mind at the time the rest of my brain stumbles on something that works is what I think is happening.
If the above understanding is correct, it is not surprising that some people find tongue blocking to be vastly easier and "better" and other feel the same about LP.
Last Edited by STME58 on Jun 23, 2014 8:17 PM
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SuperBee
2086 posts
Jun 23, 2014
9:46 PM
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Someone remind me what the question is please.
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isaacullah
2830 posts
Jun 24, 2014
6:58 AM
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A video is worth 10,000 words. Here's how I do it:
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
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Frank
4645 posts
Jun 24, 2014
12:45 PM
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Good instruction vid Isaac...I see you're gettin outta town soon -and I know you are very busy man too , but stop bye the centipede saloon if your schedule can do it...would like to see your Dan K. tricks up close, if you can't make it - keep up those vids, they really are worth 10,000 words :)
Hey J. good photos too, very helpful!
Last Edited by Frank on Jun 24, 2014 1:08 PM
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jnorem
315 posts
Jun 24, 2014
1:25 PM
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@Frank: :Hey J. good photos too, very helpful!"
Thanks, Frank, and contrary to what I wrote earlier, that is definitely not the way I'd kiss my Grandpa.
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Call me J
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dougharps
660 posts
Jun 24, 2014
1:54 PM
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EDIT:
I HAVE LEFT THE CONTENT FOR THE SAKE OF THE THREAD. I DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF "LIP BLOCKING" WHEN I WROTE THIS, SO APPLY AS MANY GRAINS OF SALT AS ARE NEEDED.
Sometimes the hairsplitting involved in defining a technique is productive, as it helps teach others.
Sometimes it leads to contention, and doesn't contribute productively to conversations on techniques.
If "lipping" covers all the pucker/purse/lip block techniques, and tongue blocking covers all the tongue-on-harp techniques (left & right blocking, tongue switching, splits, slaps, etc.) and I do some of both approaches, I guess I should say that I am a harmonica "mouth player".
I don't do nose (or any other orifice)!
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 25, 2014 10:08 PM
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kudzurunner
4754 posts
Jun 25, 2014
6:53 AM
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Isaac, I've just looked at your two videos on the previous page. Both of them revolve around two techniques: puckering (lip pursing) and tongue blocking. As you know (because you mentioned it), I've been teaching both techniques for years, especially the way of getting a TB sound using lip pursing with those added notes on either side.
What you don't do in your two videos, at all, is demonstrate the lip blocking technique that harpdude is talking about--with the heavy tilt and with the upper lip covering the upper coverplate. Perhaps you do that in the video you post just above. I'm going to check it out now.
PS: In the first video, you do, however, mistakenly call your version of lip pursing "lip blocking."
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 25, 2014 6:55 AM
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kudzurunner
4755 posts
Jun 25, 2014
6:56 AM
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The embouchure that you're using in the video just above is classic lip pursing--the way that I, and JP Allen, and Jon Gindick, and jnorem do it.
Gindick can call it lip block. I call it lip pursing. My mouth shape is precisely the same as his. I don't tilt the harp up, but my mouth shape is precisely the same as his. I, too, stress a dropped jaw and big fat lips, with the harp pushed far into the jaws and contacting the inner part of the pucker.
So from my perspective, this is a non-issue. There are still, to my mind, only two good embouchures: one that involves placing the tongue against the comb, the other that doesn't.
Unless, of course, harpdude is doing something very different from Isaac, Gindick, and me.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on Jun 25, 2014 7:05 AM
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harpdude61
2032 posts
Jun 25, 2014
8:26 AM
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@kudzurunner. Go back to page one of this thread and look at the side shot Frank posted of David Barrett. Please reread the post because what Frank posted was written by David Barrett. The tongue pix as well are true for me. He talks about the "yawn" as where to start, not the shape Gindick describes in the youtube harp video, which was the first I ever saw on the subject.
Like I have said, I imagine being so relaxed that the mouth just falls open. Like it does when you dose off in your recliner. My harp is tilted as dramatic as the pic. It is deep in my mouth. My upper lip actually hangs over the edge of the top cover plate just a bit. This is where I play. I don't use the muscles that are required to pucker or purse because I don't need to.
All styles are great! I guess early on I read so many post by BBQ Bob about relaxation that it became a big focus for me. I try to make the only muscles I use the throat and diaphragm. And of course the minimal effort required to go to a TB split.
Isaac is using muscles that I do not. If your verdict is "lip blockers are the same as lip pursers" then I'll respect that.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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dougharps
661 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:14 AM
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EDIT:
I HAVE LEFT THE CONTENT FOR THE SAKE OF THE THREAD. I DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF "LIP BLOCKING" WHEN I WROTE THIS, SO APPLY AS MANY GRAINS OF SALT AS ARE NEEDED.
Adam, I didn't bring the lip blocking topic up, but I think understand why it was brought up. When you talk to a non-harp player about puckering or pursing lips they demonstrate fish-lipped protruded lips that is promotes thin tone and is prone to tiring easily. To avoid this confusion is why I started using the "lip block" label when I first heard it.
If a beginner has a teacher the teacher can say, "No, don't stick your lips way out, just relax, like this, and put the harp in your mouth deeper." If a beginner doesn't have a teacher and (s)he reads, “pucker” or “pursed lips,” (s)he is likely to protrude the lips in a non-productive way. Eventually, even without a teacher, most will move away from the fish-lipped pucker (or just quit).
I think that the "lip block" label is useful to differentiate from fish lipped pucker and is accurately descriptive of what you do to play a single note in the embouchure that is more relaxed.
I looked at jnorem's pictures above and I do not see what a NON-HARP PLAYER would call a pucker or pursed lips. His lips do not stick way out. His embouchure seems pretty close to the "lip block" embouchure, with maybe a little more protrusion in the shot without the harp, but with harp in mouth it looks pretty close to "lip blocking" to me. David Barrett's picture of tilted blocking is clearly using the lip to block, though the angle seems unnecessarily exaggerated to me. I doubt that he continuously maintains this much tilt when actively playing. What really matters is what the player does when playing, not what you call it, and I think we all move the harp around dynamically when playing.
I once saw a post by Jason that mentioned seasoned chromatic players referring to it as "lipping." Maybe we should call these two popular embouchures “lipping” and “tonguing”? I would include the “U-block” as a subset of “tonguing.”
I thought Larry's "single note embouchure" was a fine name, too, except there is Frank's question about what you call it when you relax and play 2 (or more) notes. (What happens to your fist, when you open your hand?) Whatever you call it, this non-tongue embouchure uses the lips to select a hole or holes and block other holes, as opposed to tongue blocking that uses the tongue and lips to select a hole or holes.
At this point in this thread rather than adding clarity to the embouchure, the use of “lip blocking” is contributing to confusion and argument which is contrary to the purpose of a new label.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 25, 2014 10:09 PM
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CarlA
536 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:22 AM
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@harpdude
"I don't use the muscles that are required to pucker or purse because I don't need to."
Not trying to be argumentative, but I think it's physiologically impossible to make this claim. You may not be making an exaggerated pucker, but your are still technically using your orbicularis oris muscle to some extent just to form a proper "seal" on the harp with your lips, and thus, indeed are puckering(albeit to a minor degree)
Don't believe me?! Botox your lip muscles(ie:orbicularis oris m.) and report back on the findings.
Last Edited by CarlA on Jun 25, 2014 9:26 AM
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chromaticblues
1582 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:28 AM
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Has the whole world gone mad?
Oh no just forum loving harmonica players!
This is a perfect example of taking something that is VERY simplistic and making it complicated!
If your tongue is on the harmonica covering up holes you are tongue blocking. If you are not doing that then you are puckering like a sucky fish.
Everything after that is part of the learning and development process.
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dougharps
662 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:31 AM
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EDIT:
I HAVE LEFT THE CONTENT FOR THE SAKE OF THE THREAD. I DID NOT HAVE A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING OF "LIP BLOCKING" WHEN I WROTE THIS, SO APPLY AS MANY GRAINS OF SALT AS ARE NEEDED.
At this point in this thread rather than adding clarity to the embouchure, the use of “lip blocking” is contributing to confusion and argument which is contrary to the purpose of a new label.
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Doug S.
Last Edited by dougharps on Jun 25, 2014 10:10 PM
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The Iceman
1773 posts
Jun 25, 2014
9:52 AM
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dougharps ' "I thought Larry's "single note embouchure" was a fine name, too, except there is Frank's question about what you call it when you relax and play 2 (or more) notes."
We were talking about playing a single note...
When you relax and play 2 notes, that is "double note embouchure".
Have beginning student take a drink of water from a glass. Tell him to notice that he doesn't stop the glass an inch away from his mouth and reach for it with his lips. Now he will have no trouble bringing the harmonica to his relaxed lips and tipping up if he relates to the above mentioned motion.
Drinking movements are natural, relaxed and usually as efficient as can be.
"As you take a drink of water, so shall you approach the harmonica" is my mantra.
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The Iceman
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isaacullah
2832 posts
Jun 25, 2014
10:14 AM
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Okay folks (inc. Adam), let me try to clarify. As an archaeologist, I am overly familiar with typologies that are too complex to be meaningful. Some folks are "lumpers" and some are "splitters", and while that's okay, but I've argued in print that typological divisions need to be based on a functionally meaningful set of measurable differences. That is what we are doing here.
Without going too far into semantics, lets play a little thought exercise. AS you read the next couple of sentences, take a moment and think honestly about the first image of a mouth you see:
"Pucker up, baby!"
"She pursed her lips pensively, as she tried to decide what to do."
Are the images of mouths you are seeing ANYTHING like what I'm showing in my video? I think not.
Language is a funny thing; words are imbued with meanings that cannot easily be disentangled from them. In Anthropological theory, we call this characteristic "agency". Words do indeed have agency, which is why it is vitally important to pick the best ones, especially when constructing terminology for a phenomena that must be learned. I maintain that we are doing a HUGE disservice to novice players by insisting on using the words "pucker" and "purse". This is especially important because it is indeed possible to sound a single note using a true "pucker". Because of that, many beginning players find success with a "true" pucker, and as a result, they are never able to get the big wide open tones that the Lip Block allows (and does Tongue Blocking). This leads to umpteen million threads on various internet forums about how Tongue-based embouchure's have better tone than Lip-based ones, or that Lip-based embouchure's are inherently inferior - both of which are patently untrue.
I do agree, however, that there is a hierarchical classification system at play. The primary division is between "Tongue" and "No Tongue", and each of those have probably several subdivisions (left side TB, right side TB, octave split TB, U-block. And narrow pucker, wide pucker, and Lip Block). We are talking about that secondary set of divisions for the Lip-based embouchure group, and I think it's quite important that we use the proper terminology for what we are doing. I think the "tilt" is a key identifying feature of the "Lip Block". If you are not tilting that harp, then you are still using BOTH lips to seal around the hole, and you are indeed simply doing a "wide pucker". That may work just fine for many things, but evidence leads me to believe that the Lip Block works better for several key techniques I want to have in my arsenal (including the Chord Slap). Continuing to talk solely about a "pucker" for Lip Based embouchures is not only incorrect, it's downright obfuscatory, and harms beginning players.
Finally, I wasn't aware that Gindick uses the term "Lip Block" (I haven't looked at his stuff for several years now), but that's not where I got the term. As far as I'm aware, Harpdude, I, and some others came up with that term right here on MBH in one of the 50 billion "TB vs LP" threads. I believe it was about two years ago, or so.
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Last Edited by isaacullah on Jun 25, 2014 12:10 PM
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isaacullah
2833 posts
Jun 25, 2014
11:11 AM
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Frank! Thanks for the invite, brother, but I'm not at all sure if I can pull it off! I regret not having enough time this year to come hang out in the centipede saloon with ya! Would have been fun... But man, does the life of a young academic struggling to get a tenure track job just eat your free time up!!!
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