jnorem
195 posts
May 14, 2014
4:05 PM
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There's a handful of harps I'd really like to try, great looking harps that might play better than anything I'm using now (mostly SP20s). But I'll never know how well they play or anything else about them because I can't try them out first.
I know, I know. And I can't think of a solution. And it just doesn't make sense to me to buy something for $60-$70 and then not like it.
Can you send a played harp back for a full refund? I very much doubt it, but I could be wrong. That would be the only way I'd be able to try them before I buy them.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on May 14, 2014 4:10 PM
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Frank
4247 posts
May 14, 2014
4:11 PM
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Trust me... stick with Hohner, don't be a loner - you'll most likely waste your money trying to find a better harp then they make :)
99% of the PROS use Hohner and the 1% that don't - secretly do when their promotional people aren't looking :)
Last Edited by Frank on May 14, 2014 4:16 PM
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HawkeyeKane
2511 posts
May 14, 2014
4:17 PM
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Aaaaaand let the backlash against the previous post commence....
;-)
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
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Frank
4248 posts
May 14, 2014
4:22 PM
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Just trying to save jnorem some unnecessary heartache of buying a bunch of different brand harps only to realize he wished they all were Hohners :)
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Dragonbreath
6 posts
May 14, 2014
4:42 PM
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I don't think it could be a complete waste. All harps have their own charm and sound and uses. I even have a cheap silverstar that sounds real mellow and raspy and nice. I don't play it much as I don't want it to wear out even. You can buy the harp in a key you don't have or save on your favourite harp and use the new harp for woodshedding. You could try to tune it to something like minor or something. Different harps also sound different mic'd and different mics bring out different tonal qualities. Think of how many guitars guitarplayers can have. All for different sounds. There's always room for another harp!
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bluemoose
977 posts
May 14, 2014
4:50 PM
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Hohner Crossover Marine Band. You will thank me.
MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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Littoral
1076 posts
May 14, 2014
5:01 PM
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What Bluemoose said. Crossovers are really really nice. You can know this, you can't go wrong.
Having said that, I've been trying to talk myself into a couple of 20's. It's been a seriously long time since I used them and given the fact that I really like the MS Blues Harps for their smooth/round sound (closed covers) I'm pretty sure I'll be even happier with 20's. But only for the other sounds, Crossovers are the deal.
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BluesJacketman
137 posts
May 14, 2014
5:01 PM
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@ Frank I have seen Mark Hummel, Rick Estrin, Charlie Musselwhite and James Cotton and they all use Seydel 1847s.
Personally I use Special 20s, Marine Bands, MB Deluxes and Crossover. That latter two not as much because they are as you state a bit pricey.
Last Edited by BluesJacketman on May 14, 2014 5:03 PM
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Frank
4250 posts
May 14, 2014
5:06 PM
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You are better off buying more of the the same keys of the harps you love playing...this frees you up from always using the same harp and wearing it out prematurely. In other words, having 5 C harps and 5 A's and 5 d's etc. etc. is the way to go and will save you a lot of money in the long run :)
BJMan...How in the hell did those guys get snookered into playing Seydels :)
Last Edited by Frank on May 14, 2014 5:12 PM
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jnorem
196 posts
May 14, 2014
5:35 PM
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Marine Bands, as good as they are, are out because after playing the SP20 for so many years, my lips can't take the protruding reed plates on the Marine Band-type playing surface.
The SP20 is indeed a great harmonica. I really like the Suzuki Promaster, but again there's the issue with the playing surface.
I also have a Seydel Session Steel, and at first I didn't like it much, but it started growing on me. It's just that the action is rather stiff for my taste. Maybe it's the steel reeds, anyway I think the SP20 is a better harmonica. It has twang. So I suppose I'll just play what I've been playing for so long.
I see guitar players trying out guitars, and I feel envy when I see that. I wonder if there will ever be a time when you can put a harp through its paces before you decide that you like it.
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Call me J
Last Edited by jnorem on May 14, 2014 5:38 PM
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Frank
4251 posts
May 14, 2014
5:51 PM
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Maybe a business can be started - were they loan out different brand harps for people to try for a week :)
Last Edited by Frank on May 14, 2014 5:51 PM
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sonny3
175 posts
May 14, 2014
6:22 PM
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If you find one you like stick with it.I've spent way too much money trying to find something better than marin,e band 1896s.I haven't found one to beat them yet.
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Sarge
408 posts
May 14, 2014
6:27 PM
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Attend SPAH and you'll get to try out harps
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Wisdom does not always come with old age. Sometimes old age arrives alone.
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robbert
307 posts
May 14, 2014
7:40 PM
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I have, play and gig on a regular basis with LO, Seydel Session Steel, Big River, Manji, Marine Band,Sp. 20, and Xover. For sound,responsiveness,and tweakability, I prefer Sp. 20 and Xover. I don't have any comfort issues with any of them, really.
I'm glad I have tried the various brands, though. They are all very playable, but my favorites are those two.
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jnorem
197 posts
May 14, 2014
9:54 PM
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Sarge: "Attend SPAH and you'll get to try out harps."
I'd like to do that, attend SPAH. Maybe I'll get to someday.
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Call me J
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Gnarly
1000 posts
May 14, 2014
11:00 PM
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This year SPAH is back in St. Louis, same hotel as last year--second week in August.
I'm the guy who gets to wipe off the harmonicas at the Suzuki booth.
I agree with Jay, you ought to be able to try 'em before you buy 'em--but you can't!
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JustFuya
150 posts
May 14, 2014
11:04 PM
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The Crossover is an excellent harp for blues. These days it's pretty good out of the box. I've had a hunk of solid aluminuim in my hand and liked the heft but I needed something lighter for my sound.
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Pistolcat
621 posts
May 14, 2014
11:15 PM
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You wouldn't necessarily go to spah but attending any harp event could probably get you a fix of different harp if you have your herpes under control. Maybe you could try some customs, too as there is where the big difference in cost AND playability is
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Pistolkatt - Pistolkatts youtube
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Gnarly
1001 posts
May 14, 2014
11:22 PM
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hmmm
Last Edited by Gnarly on May 14, 2014 11:23 PM
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jbone
1615 posts
May 15, 2014
4:13 AM
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I'm a confirmed Suzuki fan. Hohner let me down years ago and lost my business. I don't care what someone else plays, I care for real quality and innovation.
You DO have to buy a harp to try it but imagine this: You see a harp you are drawn to and go to the store, try it out- and suck up someone else's spit because the harp is not well cleaned after that last guy tried it.
But consider this as well: People buy and sell used harps between individuals all the time. There are some very effective cleaning methods out there including 92% alcohol and total disassembly/reassembly.
Often a slightly used harp can be had much cheaper than a new one so that initial outlay is not so big.
I wouldn't try another person's toothbrush. Too intimate! But I have bought and been given used harps, and after a cautionary cleaning I am here to report no ill effects.
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SuperBee
1980 posts
May 15, 2014
4:25 AM
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Yep I have some used ones. Ultrasonic cleaner does the job without too much bother on non-absorbent combs.
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harpwrench
839 posts
May 15, 2014
5:04 AM
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Being able to return harps would lower the odds of getting a good one unless you're the first guy in line to cherry pick them.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
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HawkeyeKane
2512 posts
May 15, 2014
7:07 AM
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"Ultrasonic cleaner does the job without too much bother on non-absorbent combs."
Agreed. I've only bought a very few used harps. But the ones I've gotten were very dirty with lots of corrosion on the reedplates and gunk in the combs. So my cleaning method is as follows...
1. Completely disassemble and place all components in a 50/50 solution of vinegar and water, run a thorough cycle in the ultrasonic.
2. Use a Crest Spinbrush to gently remove any remaining corrosion on reedplates with the same vinegar water solution.
3. Use a Water Pik tooth cleaner to jet out the spaces in the comb.
4. Put a typical food service sanitizer tablet in the ultrasonice and dissolve it in hot water. Put all components back in and run on another thorough cycle.
Gets them cleaner than a whistle.
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Hawkeye Kane - Hipbone Sam
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kudzurunner
4696 posts
May 15, 2014
7:19 AM
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The Crossovers are very good, but they're a little bright for my taste. The brightness is more obvious on the higher-key harps. I used an F Crossover on SOUTHBOUND: the lead song, "Southbound," and the Sanford and Son theme song. Fast as hell, and easy to play. But the bamboo comb and reed configuration definitely brightens it up. In some contexts, that brightness is a plus--cutting through a band, for example. For acoustic playing, regular MB and MB Deluxe are better. My amped-up duo thing, too, doesn't need so much brightness.
I visited the Seydel (pronounced "SIGH-dul" by the locals) factory in 2008 and got some of their harps. I agree with jnorem: kind of stiff. I didn't mind, because I play hard and can kind of bull on through. The upside, if you're a hard player, is that they stay in tune. They're very durable. If I were going to busk my way through Europe for a summer and could only take one harp in each key, I might seriously consider Seydels.
But basically I agree with Frank. The Marine Band harps work for me. I almost never have trouble with swelled-up, protruding combs. I like the sharp edges on the cover plates. I love the sound.
Last Edited by kudzurunner on May 15, 2014 7:20 AM
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scojo
475 posts
May 15, 2014
7:21 AM
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This Seydel endorser is baffled as to why anyone would bash another harmonica manufacturer. All the big ones (Seydel, Hohner, Suzuki, Lee Oskar, Hering) make harmonicas that are excellent in their own way. I find something to like in models from each company (and they all have great people working for them -- I'm thinking of all the crew at Seydel plus Adam Hamil at Hohner, just off the top of my head). The Seydel 1847 just suits my style the best.
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GMaj7
408 posts
May 15, 2014
7:22 AM
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Here's a novel thought..
You are in the business of selling a commodity that goes for about $100 on the higher end. Do you REALLY want to market to a group of customers that complain about a $40-$50 unit ????? For what?
For every 5 guys on a forum complaining about a $48 Marine Band.. there are 500 buying them up. 200 of them will never get played and thrown in a drawer. That turnaround keeps the cost in check.
Return policies, experimenting, etc.. Would mean that a company would have to devote 30% of its resources to keep 1% of the forum guys happy and then raise its costs for the many loyal customers who purchase consistently and are content.
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Greg Jones
16:23 Custom Harmonicas
greg@1623customharmonicas.com
1623customharmonicas.com
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groyster1
2600 posts
May 15, 2014
7:37 AM
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have to agree with kudzu...I swore off marine band 1896 a long time ago....but I have had a 360 turnaround....they are very good ootb harps...the crossover and deluxe have better construction and that partially justifies their extra cost but when you have a good mb1896 you have all you needIMHO
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Slimharp
319 posts
May 15, 2014
7:57 AM
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Been playing 47 years.I remember when you didnt have much of a choice. You bought a MB. I have tried most of the Diatonic harps. Many are good, especially if I didnt have any other choice, I would play some of them. Many harps these days are made very well. It boils down to personal choice. I choose 20's MBD, Crossover. I feel the Crossover is a bit bright. The 20, especially with easy mods ( sealing,covers opened,2 screws added to reed plate ) are the go to for the lower ( not cheap ) end harp. The MBD is the best for the higher priced harp. It seems to be a bit more durable than the Crossover and the comb does not tear me up. IMHO the Rocket is an excuse to sell a custom comb at a high price. For the money give me a 20.
One thing I have done is select one store to buy from repeatedly. I tell them I am a pro. They get to know me. I tell them if the harp is bad ( reed rattle, slow or not sounding reeds ) I will not buy it. I take it out of the box and play it in front of them. Once in a while I get a bad one and they give me another one. I buy my harps from Rockin Rons now so this is not an issue.
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kudzurunner
4697 posts
May 15, 2014
8:02 AM
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I agree, Scojo. I make a point of not bashing any professional grade harmonica manufacturer, and the companies you've listed all make the grade. Of course, those of us who've been playing for decades have our preferences, and it's entirely reasonable that we should clearly articulate them. Nothing wrong with that; in fact, it's a positive good in my book.
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harpdude61
2000 posts
May 15, 2014
8:48 AM
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MB is THE harp for a majority players it seems. Love my Golden Melodys. To me they are the unstiffest harps I have played. If you play with the harp deep in your mouth the rounded shape feels better to me..but that's me.
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www.facebook.com/catfishfryeband
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scojo
476 posts
May 15, 2014
8:55 AM
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Kudzurunner: totally agree. I was objecting to the insinuation from one poster that Hohners are right for everyone (or that someone got "snookered" into buying Seydels). Sent you an email about that commercial, BTW... thanks again for your kind words.
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Rgsccr
247 posts
May 15, 2014
8:57 AM
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What I've settled on is using Crossovers for keys like G,A and Bb and Marine Bands (either deluxe or ones I've sanded and sealed with screws instead of nails) for the rest. Seems like the added brightness makes those keys a little louder, and isn't as noticeable as in higher keys. Like all have said, for the most part, it's personal taste both in the way the harps sound and how one perceives that they play. I used to use LO and still have quite a few. Now and again I pick one up and play it and like how it sounds. Same goes for SP20s and Big Rivers. Beyond the mellow sound of Marine Bands, what I like is the ridge and the feel of the comb (now that they don't seem to swell when they are sealed). Kind of gives me a point of reference.
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1847
1784 posts
May 15, 2014
9:09 AM
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i dont buy harps, just the reed plates
silver plus
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
Last Edited by 1847 on May 15, 2014 9:09 AM
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Frank
4254 posts
May 15, 2014
9:23 AM
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Surprised no one mentioned the "Huang Silvertone Deluxe"...Heard they play like a custom harp right outta the box - is this true :)
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bluemoose
978 posts
May 15, 2014
9:30 AM
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I like Rgsccr's idea. Right tool for the job. Xovers for low keys.
I have a Turbolid on my G SP20 for a real horn sound and feel.
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MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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1847
1785 posts
May 15, 2014
9:44 AM
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Surprised no one mentioned the "Huang Silvertone Deluxe".
from what i understand, they are made at the same factory as the hohners
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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nacoran
7740 posts
May 15, 2014
9:47 AM
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"Maybe a business can be started - were they loan out different brand harps for people to try for a week :)"- Frank
Actually, I've suggested for a while that some of the special tunings really need to be played just to get an idea of what they can do, and that towards that end someone should make a set of cheap harps that include several tunings. Yeah, they wouldn't be great harps, but they would at least give you an idea of what is possible. Jim has taken that idea even farther, I think. He had/has a set of harps that he was sending around. The deal was, you clean them, and pay postage to send them to the next stop on the journey, I think.
I've played Hohners, Lee Oskars and Seydels. If cost wasn't an issue, I'd go with Seydels. Since it is, I split my purchases between L.O.s and Hohner Sp20s for the most part. I like the sound of MBs, but they shred my lips. I have one Crossover. It's alright, but I think maybe it's a dud, because it's not terribly responsive. I've gapped it a bit, and it's alright, and if I'd paid $30-$40... but one is a pretty small sample group. I do like it's feel. I just happened to get one that isn't as responsive as other Hohner's I've played.
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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
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Frank
4255 posts
May 15, 2014
10:02 AM
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From time to time - You can get some fairly great deals at the online big box music stores on Hohner Harps as well as at Amazon...Not long ago Musicians Friend was selling a set of 5 Sp20 harps case included for a bargain price - Lot of players here ate that deal up :)
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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Slimharp
321 posts
May 15, 2014
10:28 AM
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The Huang Silertone and Star Performer are decent harps for the money. Right now Guitar Center is offering a 5 pack A,C,D,E,G of Sp 20 for $150.00.
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1847
1786 posts
May 15, 2014
11:51 AM
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I have one Crossover. It's alright, but I think maybe it's a dud, because it's not terribly responsive. I've gapped it a bit, and it's alright,
i had one like that,i adjusted every reed
they all play great except one reed,
finally in frustration, i grabbed a pair of channel locks, wiggled the base of the reed a bit, and voila!
why is it, None of the manufactures will listen to what the customer wants?
they all make 10 different models
but not one of them yet is perfect.
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i get a lot of request when i play my harmonica
"but i play it anyway"
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barbequebob
2556 posts
May 15, 2014
1:00 PM
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@1847 -- The big problem is that if you have millions of customers, you easily forget that what may be great for one player is gonna suck for another and with mass production, it becomes too expensive to cover one market of players only and ignore another just doesn't work as a business model alone unless you want to go for just a small niche market.
The amount of time and labor necessary for any harp maker to make things "perfect" is often times not going to be cost effective because you're taking people off the assembly line to "prefect" it, and even with the better manufacturing standards that are in place now, you're always gonna have something that's gonna be a dud, like it or not and the only way to get "perfection" is basically quit complaining and spend the money on a custom because those guys have the time and skills to afford that and those are much more heavily labor intensive than a stock harp is, and that's a cold, hard, brutal truth.
More players bitch and moan about the cost but there's no free lunch happening anytime soon and you're never gonna get Rolls Royce quality out of a crappy old Chevy (which essentially what OOTB harps are by comparison).
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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harpwrench
840 posts
May 15, 2014
2:04 PM
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I sometimes spend an hour just making a set of reed plates ready to customize. Then at least 4 hours more work before it's where I want it, at stage 1 level. Some enjoyed making digs on the flat comb video. Well try it. Then get the reed plates just as flat, and all the reeds accurately indexed, then flatten them again when you're done because resetting rivets warps them too. Embossing one side more than the other to fill in the gap isn't the same. That's the stuff that makes a harp good, or a dud, out of the box or customized. The cost for a factory to do things to this level of detail wouldn't be as attractive.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
Last Edited by harpwrench on May 15, 2014 2:06 PM
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Frank
4259 posts
May 15, 2014
2:06 PM
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You Don't Try Harps, You Buy Harps...
If we could get them sold at HomeDepots and the like, they have excellent return policies, even when it's used :)
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harpwrench
841 posts
May 15, 2014
2:22 PM
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I guess they could have a player/worker cherry pick the good ones, and sell them for twice as much. But then you'd be guaranteed not to get a great one, ever, unless you bought the premium model. And there'd probably be concerns with getting someone else's cooties.
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www.spiersharmonicas.com
High performance harmonicas.
Last Edited by harpwrench on May 15, 2014 2:23 PM
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JustFuya
155 posts
May 15, 2014
2:24 PM
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My only problem with MBs is the nailed construction. I was shown the oddly shaped GM some years ago and I was skeptical. I went all in for two reasons: They are easily dissembled for cleaning and the plastic comb doesn't grow lip rasping teeth. (I had no inkling of tuning or gapping at the time.)
Fast forward to a few months ago. I bought my first CO (Key of C) and it sounded great OOTB. My first delight was the resonance. My fingers and ears loved the vibration. My second discovery was the bend ability. I was able to nail draws at half step and still wave them.
So I now have 2 sets of harps. My only problem with the CO is the side vent but it's probably a matter of cup adjustment. I've bought several COs and the only one I absolutely had to gap OOTB was my high G. Somewhat understandable but a disappointment nonetheless.
Hands down, tho, my favorite harp is a customized Sp20. If I could only afford a set of those.
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jnorem
198 posts
May 15, 2014
4:04 PM
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1847: "i dont buy harps, just the reed plates"
Same here, SP20 reed plates, to be exact, unless I'm having one made to my tuning.
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Call me J
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jbone
1616 posts
May 15, 2014
8:06 PM
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I don't intend to bash a maker, I recited just a bit of history I had. I do in fact have a few Hohners, a sp20 or two, an MB, a Big River. We got my wife a Deuce and a Quarter recently for a good deal on Amazon
and I like it pretty well.
I don't take it personally if I am unhappy with a particular harp or brand, I just vote with my wallet in that case.
I will take a risk- and sometimes get a harp I don't like. It's if/when a maker consistently disappoints me with their product or service that I find a different option.
I've played a lot of harps over 4+ decades. I know pretty well what I need, can afford, and like. If Hohner can convince me they have what I can use I will likely give them another try.
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nacoran
7742 posts
May 15, 2014
8:53 PM
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1847, it all comes down to pasta sauce.
Personally, I like long body covers, but I'm torn on how open the back should be; I prefer Equal Temperament, except when I want Compromise Tuning,
and my favorite harp has rounded corners and is noticeably smaller than most harps (although the reed spacing is standard). I like recessed plates, unless the plates are sanded super smooth. I also like covers that are quick to take off and the feel of plastic covers without the sound (although I like the sound of the Turbolids) although the Turbolids don't fit in my harp case.
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Nate
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Goldbrick
435 posts
May 15, 2014
9:33 PM
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Horizontal thinking?
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Lonesome Harpman
153 posts
May 16, 2014
10:20 AM
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It's all subjective and like a blind date ,or a box of chocolates, you may get lucky. For a time I was buying only custom harps, however,from certain builders they take awhile to get. Hell,I need harps faster than say a year and half or more waiting for a custom. For my style of playing,the customs don't last any longer than an Out of the Box Harp. For me a custom needs just as much maintenance. Yes they play great when you first get them but your going to need skills to maintain them. Occasionally,I get a Crossover that is as good as my customs. I just replaced my G harp with a OOB Crossover, it was the stiffest Crossover I have ever ordered. Sure,it has loosened up with playing, and I yet to take the covers off and tweak it so it's good enough. I can't customize my own harps well so I buy Crossovers. A good tip that most of you already know is to own enough harps so that your best ones stay in the case. After writing this I've decided not to play my best harps at rehearsals any longer.
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