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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Difficulty "socializing" my playing...
Difficulty "socializing" my playing...
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Arcadiandj
42 posts
Feb 15, 2014
7:57 PM
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I would say I'm an intermediate player. I can "walk" briskly with the harp, skip on occasion, and even run sometimes, but I don't really dance yet. But I want to some day-if that makes any sense.
I think a part of being able to get that good, is to be able to "socialize" (as I've heard Adam say) my playing. I tried to start a group once. It took off briefly (someone else really ran with the idea-Here in Arizona Ready to Play: HARP on facebook), but it hasn't really moved in quite some time.
I went to a jam once, but couldn't even hear myself play, and don't really feel like that venue would help me develop-except to be able to play with a band. I think I need to be better first.
And I've found a less developed player to play with regularly, but this person has many other things going on and doesn't seem to be that serious. In short, we really aren't going anywhere either.
My question to more advanced forum members, is what suggestions do you have for someone who is trying to improve by playing with others? What are some good ways to make contact and play with others?
Thank you in advance.
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robbert
281 posts
Feb 15, 2014
9:18 PM
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Keep working on your own to improve your game, and attempt to play different styles of music(you may not find blues people right away, but there's some folk musicians in the neighborhood,etc). Learn how to not only solo, but how to back another instrument, or vocalist. Learn about how musicians play together. In short, make yourself into someone other people would like to play with.
Perform at open mics, post ads/requests on information boards in coffee shops, or wherever, advertise for like-minded musicians on Craig's List, talk with people, network as much as you can.
"...harmonica player looking to jam with/form or join a band or a duo...interested in blues, folk, rock, etc..."
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MindTheGap
264 posts
Feb 15, 2014
11:49 PM
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I also wanted to socialise my playing, both because my motive was to play out with others, but also because I think it's helpful for improving, as you say. Not to say that playing at home along to records isn't a valid goal in itself, if that's what you want.
Going to jams seemed like a big leap, and hit-and-miss, you can read reports of good and bad experiences on this forum. So I set up a group of my own - but not a group of pre-existing muso friends. I found a local venue - our music centre that hosts a wide variety of music activities - and advertised through them, plus walking flyers round the local shops etc. The purpose of the group is to play, not to gig, busk etc.
It might not have worked out, but it has. That was about a year ago and I'd only being playing a few months at the time. It attracted a mix of experienced and novices for a variety of reasons. The novices for the same reason as us (intimidated by jams to put it simply) and the experienced often because they were fed up with the non-music hassles associated with being in a gigging band and just want to play/practice.
It sometimes turns into a bit of an orchestra because of the numbers on the night, and my bandleading task is often to get people to play less/more quietly! But the flipside is that everyone, including me, gets the experience of playing with other musicians.
It was a bit of work to set up, but to be honest, not that much. And because we are not gigging, the maintenance is low. I'd recommend trying it.
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MTG
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MindTheGap
265 posts
Feb 15, 2014
11:56 PM
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...and another thing (and sorry to anyone for the repetition) but have you seen harmonicaboogie.com?
In a nutshell: some members create backing tracks, everyone downloads them, plays to them and records their results, then posts them back up for constructive criticism. It's not playing in a band, but I would put that squarely in the 'socialising your playing' box.
I wish I'd found this a year ago.
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MTG
Last Edited by MindTheGap on Feb 15, 2014 11:57 PM
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jbone
1501 posts
Feb 16, 2014
4:10 AM
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My experiences run the spectrum. I think to be a well rounded player you have to go out and do stuff. I spent a long time wrestling with the too-loud, extra- hassle jam scene, but i gained valuable lessons at times that I was not getting any other way. I met people who later hired me or were hired by me into bands. Getting yourself out there is a great way to challenge yourself and to reach further and higher to improve your chops, manners, and presence.
Early on I had very little confidence in my ability and rightly so. I had very little to offer. It took becoming a student but also it took stepping out into unknown territory, taking some hits for not knowing what I was doing or how to play that, whatever that was, and going back to the woodshed with better information.
I spent plenty of time in living rooms, garages, at parties, coffee shops, etc etc. This was also very valuable experience. With the pressure toned down and more of a level playing field, a meeting of the minds- and instruments- could take place at a less-frantic pace.
In short, I had to explore a lot of aspects of the same subject, and this gave me a rounded perspective and a richer experience in the long run.
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http://www.reverbnation.com/jawboneandjolene
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000386839482
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa7La7yYYeE
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Barley Nectar
303 posts
Feb 16, 2014
7:32 AM
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Find some people with a like talent level to yours. Get together and play in a basement or garage. I say like talent level because real good players will shun you and poor players may get shunned by you. It's human nature.
A HS music teacher gave me some of the best advice. Learn to break down music and listen to each instrument on its own. Hear their part in the mix. This has helped me to understand my part.
Jams my be intimidating for some but jams will teach you to interact and you will improve. You WILL be told when your screwing up. LOL. Also, you don't have to be on stage to play. Sit in a seat in the back and play along acoustically. Heck, I will still sit outside the back door and play along with a really good band. You get my drift.
The big thing is to stick with it, it will come...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 16, 2014 7:33 AM
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Mirco
102 posts
Feb 16, 2014
7:41 AM
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BarleyNectar, I had always thought that it was frowned upon to go to a jam and play along from the back (or wherever, really) without being asked. Is this what is referred to as "gussing"?
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Barley Nectar
305 posts
Feb 16, 2014
8:09 AM
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Let me explain. Sitting in the back of the room and playing acousticly during a jam session is fine. Your not going to bother anyone as nobody else will be able to hear you. It's a jam. Of corse the jams around here are free for alls!
With a giging band, I will sometime sit outside the venue, someplace I can still hear the band but no one will hear me.
Yes Mirco, you are right, don't sit inside in a venue and jam along with a band uninvited. Bad form. Never heard the word "gussing"...Thanks for prompting me to clairify...BN
Last Edited by Barley Nectar on Feb 16, 2014 8:14 AM
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Rick Davis
2965 posts
Feb 16, 2014
8:34 AM
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Arcadia, it depends on what your goals are. If you aspire to play on stage in front of people and get paid for it, then jams are the best learning tool. Can they be intimidating? Sure, but playing a gig is also intimidating. Better get used to it.
So you went to a jam once and could not hear yourself? Welcome to reality. Part of socializing your music is learning about stagecraft. I sometimes get called up on stages where I cannot hear myself but I can usually get it fixed. If not, I play anyway. Experience helps. And the only way to get experience is to get on unfamiliar stages and just do it. You'll be surprised how quickly you pick up the little things.
(At the Mile High Blues Society we present "Blues Jam 101" seminars for this exact stuff.)
As you may know, I host a big blues jam in Denver. Here is my advice: Find out who the host is and talk to him/her first. Be honest about your level of experience. Be friendly and confident.
Don't overplay. Home is the place to work on new licks. The stage is the place to play them when you have them worked out. Play simple licks you know. Leave space. Smile.
Do NOT play when the singer is singing. Do NOT play when somebody else is soloing. That comes later.
Trust me.... do this and you will be a hit at the jam.
And... all respect to Goose (Barley Nectar) but please, don't play in the back of the room. It will offend the players on stage, even if they can't really hear it. Your question was about socializing your music, and that ain't it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Feb 16, 2014 8:43 AM
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Frank
3840 posts
Feb 16, 2014
9:34 AM
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To “connect” you are most likely going to have to get out and about and get with others on a face to face personal level.
And you don't have to play if you don't want to...Just go to interact, socialize, and become a familiar face, a patron to the bar/jam.
Spend your time observing, pay attention to things - enjoy yourself while connecting with others. You can do this for as long as you feel like it... "you don't have to play" till you want to.
You can spend a year just going and socializing, having fun and supporting the jam and players...If you feel like playing, fine… if not, that is also fine...
Don’t put unnecessary pressure on yourself…
And the fact of the matter is that getting on a stage is not a panacea for curing the many flaws a developing musician brings with them.
All too often a baggage full of bad habits is brought by a player to a jam session believing that is the place where they’re going to rid themselves of them and become the “new hot kid on the block”
Truth is that many of these problems are not going to get solved on the stage in front of a crowd of people.
The stage isn’t a magic bullet for curing a player’s musical inconsistencies or lack of effort in the shed.
That hot new player you see…did the foot work behind the scenes – and uses the stage to show it off ?
So like Rick mentions…Use the Stage to practice Good Habits!
The only way you’re going to get socialization time is with showing up…
Make your goal... to connect with the folks at the jam…
And think of getting to play a little harp in public as icing on the cake.
The more you show up regularly at a music type event/atmosphere, the odds are you will come across some players you'll hit it off with and can make music with :)
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 16, 2014 10:13 AM
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Greg Heumann
2606 posts
Feb 16, 2014
10:10 AM
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Do NOT play along in the back of the room. I don't care if it is a jam. That isn't right. Among harp players it is known as "gussing" (named after Gus - the first guy to do it.)
I agree that jams are your next step. There is a lot to learn that isn't about how to play. For example, you said you tried and couldn't hear yourself. Guess what - That's a common experience for many new jammers and it is something you have to learn to deal with! You might need a different amp placement, or mic strategy, or a bigger amp. You might need to learn to hear yourself less clearly and still play well. So go to jams and solve those problems.
You may not like the randomness of how much you get to play at a jam so you might decide you want to lead some tunes. Now you have to learn how to instruct the band about what you need them to do, and how to queue the individual jammers up there with you for solos.
Etc. Go jam! Ultimately you'll find a lot of the same people attend a jam, as musicians or audience members - and it can become a wonderful social environment. I go the same jam every week, have been for years. Have lots of great friends and memories from it.
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***************************************************
/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
See my Customer Mics album on Facebook
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
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Rick Davis
2967 posts
Feb 16, 2014
10:26 AM
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Barley, no problem, man. Here is how I would handle it if you were playing in the back at my jam:
I'd go up to you and compliment your playing. "Hey, man, you sound good. Wanna get up and jam?"
If you decline then I'd gently let you know that the jammers on stage are often local pros or near-pros who take their jam sets very seriously. They might feel you are trying to show them up. There is a certain etiquette to all this. But if you get up with them they will support you like a brother, as long as you follow the rules I listed in my post above.
If you ever get to Denver, come to my jam!
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Feb 16, 2014 10:29 AM
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Rick Davis
2968 posts
Feb 16, 2014
10:41 AM
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Arcadia, this is Ginny. She is 79 years old and has been playing harp for two years.
Ginny is a regular at the jam and she is very popular with the other jammers. There is a good chance you have at least as much harp skill as Ginny. What you don't have is the jam session experience.
Go to jams. Make friends. Have fun. You'll get your music socialization moving in the right direction.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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atty1chgo
838 posts
Feb 16, 2014
11:08 AM
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Very good advice by all. Rick is correct. Jbone hit on the same thing. The only way that stage fright will go away is by playing in jams.
But the way it will naturally fall away is when you practice and practice and practice. Adam Gussow told me something very valuable a few years back. Don't go to jams as much until you have practiced a lot, and spent time in the woodshed. It is sage advice.
Because when you get better, and you KNOW that you are getting better, you will feel the confidence that you know what you are doing. I think that for most people, the reason for fear is being unsure about whatever is being done in front of people watching. When you are sure that you are at least OK enough to play decently, it will be easier to step up.
The first time for me was the first Hill Country Harmonica - final night. Total fear, even though the onlookers had all been through the same thing at one time or another, and were not critical. But it had to be done.
And when the time comes that you play with semi-pros and even accomplished pro musicians, as I and most non-professionals have had the opportunity to do, and realize that although you may not be an elite player, that you can hang in there with them, and even contribute to what is being played, your confidence will rise in a way that cannot be measured.
Last Edited by atty1chgo on Feb 16, 2014 11:12 AM
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Frank
3842 posts
Feb 16, 2014
11:30 AM
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I don't think the poster or anyone else mentioned being scared to play - he's lookin for advise were to find someone to play music with. He may be frightened, I don't know?
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 16, 2014 11:37 AM
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Rick Davis
2969 posts
Feb 16, 2014
11:54 AM
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Speaking of jams.... :-)
I'll be heading to Ziggies in Denver tonight for Doc Brown's jam. His band alternates with mine as jam hosts. Doc is a killer guitar player and his band is very good. And Doc is about the nicest guy I know.
If any of you are in the area come on down. I'll have the Memphis Mini amp; you are welcome to try it if you like.
I really like hitting the jam on my "off" night. So many friends and great players, and I don't have to manage all the chaos.
Update: Here is a photo somebody took of me at the jam tonight. You can see the MM on a chair right behind me.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Feb 16, 2014 10:10 PM
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Arcadiandj
43 posts
Feb 16, 2014
5:35 PM
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First of all, let me say, "WHOA!" Thank you for the amazing response. For me, the posts so far would make a great book chapter, and I have gotten a LOT to move forward with. The internet amazes me (and this forum-which has given me much in the relatively few amount of times I have posted) in that people who you never meet can teach you so much-and impact your life. So again, THANK YOU!
I am taking that I need to try jams again. I don't think fear of jamming is what keeps me away, only that I know I can't do much of what I hear other harp players doing at jams. But what I've read above, is that even if you don't play, there is still much learning there-AND (important for me), socializing. So while I (at my level) may not be learning about technique/what/how to play, I still have much to learn there (that I won't be able to learn on you tube/or Sonic Junction [thanks to all that pointed me in that direction]).
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isaacullah
2632 posts
Feb 16, 2014
7:39 PM
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Dan, there is a decent chance we'll be moving back to Tempe this summer for at least a year or so. If that does happen (there's a slight chance we'll be moving to Fayetteville Arkansas instead), we can make a regular time to get together and just play. I've been working on my guitar these last couple of years, so it could be fun to come up with some tunes to jam on as a duo.... I'll let you know as my plans for next year solidify...
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YouTube! Soundcloud!
Last Edited by isaacullah on Feb 16, 2014 7:42 PM
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Aussiesucker
1377 posts
Feb 16, 2014
8:13 PM
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Playing from the back of a room is definitely a no no. One sure way to never gain acceptance.
A good way to learn how to socialise with other musicians is to jam with them. A very friendly way to Jam is at Bluegrass jams however one needs to understand the etiquette & that harmonica is 'lightly' tolerated so it is slowly slowly until you are accepted. But then there are lots of opportunities to let loose on solos, play back up or just listen & learn.
In my part of Australia there is a very strong following of Bluegrass with opportunities to jam at least every week. We get ca 30+ musicians at our jams some brilliant players along with learners. The thing is a banjo or a guitar player can be hopeless but readily accepted and their poor playing excused but playing harp needs to be at least at an intermediate level along with the ability to play by ear. Being able to play some good fiddle tunes is a plus. I am usually the only harp player at our jams.
HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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BronzeWailer
1208 posts
Feb 17, 2014
1:35 AM
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Don't forget busking! I started when I was pretty raw (three years ago, now still pretty raw on the inside but singed on the outside) and have had many many great experiences on the streets (and a few uncomfortable ones). Busking is probably my second favourite thing to do.... :)
BronzeWailer's YouTube
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MindTheGap
272 posts
Feb 17, 2014
1:54 AM
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What are the features of a well-run jam?
I'm planning to try my hand at a jam this year (although I plan a lot of things...many a slip twixt cup and lip) I've read a lot of good and bad things about jams on this forum, and that's helpful: forewarned is forearmed.
It seems that if you strike gold, it could be a fantastic training ground in all kinds of ways - technical, social, stagecraft etc. But if you strike mud, it might put you off for life!
So as a rookie, how would you tell if you were at a well-run jam? Just walking through door is likely to require some nerve - think back! What would you have wanted to see? What are the features of a well-run jam?
Rick mentioned how he would handle a particular situation, and I think if I saw or experienced that I would see that as positive. Getting told to shut up, not so :-)
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MTG
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jpmcbride
25 posts
Feb 17, 2014
6:23 AM
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Arcadiandj,
Drop me an email at bottle.blues@yahoo.com
I've been living in AZ for two years now and haven't been very active musically. I played bass in a band for a few months, and hit a few jams and sat in with bands a couple times on harmonica.
When I was in Atlanta I was one of the founders and organizers of the Atlanta Harmonica Enthusiasts, a pretty active harmonica club. I've been thinking of starting something like that here in AZ. Maybe now is the time. Contact me and we'll talk.
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Jim McBride
www.bottleoblues.com
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Rick Davis
2970 posts
Feb 17, 2014
8:47 AM
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MTG, there are probably a thousand different opinions about what makes a jam good. All jams are run a little differently depending on the personality and tastes of the person organizing it. Ask around among your friends. Check out the jams the recommend. Go see what the vibe is like. For a beginner I think you are looking for a welcoming atmosphere and a sign-up list.
If you are a beginning blues player I think it is important for you to find a blues jam, not just a general open mike night. You will learn more about the craft at a blues jam.
Yes, it will be intimidating and your first stage experience may be negative, but learn from it and keep at it. In my opinion, if you can't handle the politics and uncertainty of a blues jam you probably are not cut out for gigging in clubs.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Barley Nectar
307 posts
Feb 17, 2014
9:47 AM
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You guys must be thin skinned. I have played off to the side of a jam many times, acoustically. Never once has some one approached me about this. No, I am not 6'6" and 300 lbs. I have been playing jams for 40 yrs! Do you get mad if someone sings along? How bout if someone picks up a tambourine and plays it, usually out of rhythm? I like being around relaxed people. I suppose there is a test for skill level before one is allowed to participate in these so called jams. Not my idea of a jam...See YA...Goose
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JInx
731 posts
Feb 17, 2014
10:13 AM
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at a jam a Gus is annoying, at a show...intolerable
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Sun, sun, sun
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Soon, soon, soon
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Last Edited by JInx on Feb 17, 2014 10:14 AM
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Rick Davis
2971 posts
Feb 17, 2014
10:29 AM
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Goose, I have been to jams like you describe... where there is little structure and anybody can join in at any time. It is cool that you found a jam like that to fit your style. If it is okay with them that you play from the back of the room then great! Go for it.
But.... It is frowned upon in most jams I've been to. I think we pointed that out not to criticize you but to let new jammers here on the forum know that it may be bad form. That would get them off to a really bad start as first-timers at a jam if they started gussing.
You ask an interesting question about a "test for skill level" at jams. No, there is not a test, but every jammer needs a certain level of proficiency. When you are sharing stage time with other players they will feel cheated if one player (particularly the drummer or bass player) is really poor. It is a lot easier for harp players: Just play simple riffs you know. Leave space. Be in the right key. Be in the groove. You'll do fine.
As a jam host I know the skill level of many of the jammers, so I will group the sets with that in mind. I never put several weak players together in a set... nobody wants to hear that. But I will also try not to put a weak player with a pro player. That won't work well either. I don't always succeed but I try to make sets where everybody can have fun.
But here is the bottom line: The jam host has only one job and that is to make money for the club. My job is not necessarily to accommodate the quirks and demands of all the jammers. The jam is not a social experiment or egalitarian project. It is a commercial enterprise. If it does not make money it ends.
The guys who support the jam most by playing every week, bringing friends, and spending money in the club get a lot more attention from me. Everybody gets to play, but the core jammers can ask favors. It is not a clique, it is capitalism. It may appear there is a skill test or favoritism, but it is just us trying to manage all the chaos and quirky personalities that seem to be a permanent thing whenever musicians gather. I think it works pretty well, and I mos def think it is worth it.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Frank
3852 posts
Feb 17, 2014
10:37 AM
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Being were in obama's economy - do you take food stamps at your jam Rick?
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 17, 2014 10:39 AM
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Rick Davis
2972 posts
Feb 17, 2014
10:53 AM
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Frnk, No, but being in Colorado we take bud...
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Frank
3853 posts
Feb 17, 2014
11:01 AM
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How bout 100 bucks of food stamps for 50 bucks of bud - now thats obama capitalism right there brother.....hahahahahaha :)
Last Edited by Frank on Feb 17, 2014 11:03 AM
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Aussiesucker
1378 posts
Feb 17, 2014
5:31 PM
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If at jams or concerts you sneakily play down the back then that is where you will be destined to stay. A better way is to play along at home whilst listening to a CD.
My experience with jams has involved attending and playing at Blues Jams, Country Music Jams, Folk Jams and Bluegrass Jams. I have busked plus I have done numerous walk ups at music festivals. I’m a hacker but love every opportunity to play with other musicians. The thing is, the better the people you play with then, the better you will play. This applies to music as well as other things like sport. One always plays better in a winning team.
With the Blues Jams, Country Jams & Folk Jams the formats were very similar ie house band and you put your name down for eg 3 tunes and nervously await your turn. These jams were monthly and the Country Music one was to a large audience of eg 100+ whereas the blues & Folk were really only the musicians and a few friends. All were well run with the exception of the Folk Jam which was Rafferty’s Rules’. None of these jams appealed to me on 2 fronts 1) the format & 2) the fact that they were on a Sunday afternoon in Pubs & Clubs. I’m a very active person & frankly on a hot sunny afternoon I have far more enjoyable pursuits than hanging around for hours to just play a few tunes.
I discovered Bluegrass & found that there was a big network of followers & that a fortnightly jam was held not 10 minutes from where I live & on a Tuesday evening. It was tightly run, all acoustic, and with strict adherence to the instruments allowed. Harmonica is accepted but it is really up to the player to win this acceptance. The players attending ranged from pro to beginners which is fine for Banjo and Guitar but for Harp a better than beginner knowledge is required. We play in a circle ie up to 30 musicians and if you want you can take a break in every number or pass . It is an eye signal etc that gets you in. We work around the circle with everyone (if they want to) having an opportunity to play a tune of their own choice. You then kick it off with a lead break & pass it onto other players who signal that they want a part of the action. No one plays over anothers break. The good thing is that whilst Bluegrass is adhered to at the jams it encompasses a very broad range of music genres ie if the banjos can handle it it’s bluegrass! Also if you can sing it is another plus. It is not nearly as intimidating as some other jams & play is fast moving .
Many of us from the Bluegrass community have impromptu jams throughout the week where up to 5 of us get together and play whatever style we want.
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HARPOLDIE’S YOUTUBE
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Pineapple Frenzy
1 post
Feb 17, 2014
6:18 PM
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I cut my teeth at one of the finest regular Blues Jams ever hosted in Western Canada (sadly it ended several years ago). The Bill Johnson band hosted the jam on Thursday evenings at a bar called the George and Dragon in Victoria BC, Canada. What made this jam great was not just the endless weeks of full rooms, and the phenomenal atmosphere set every night by Bill's band, but the incredible set organization by a lady named Bobby Blue, whose (now late) son himself was an incredibly talented musician and songwriter.
Bobby divided the evening into half-hour sets. As each musician arrived, they would write their name and instrument on "the sheet," from which Bobby would then build each band for the evening's entertainment. What made this work was Bobby's knowledge of all the regulars, which allowed her to fit new musicians in with more experienced but forgiving players. This made the sets entertaining for the audience while giving new musicians space to develop.
I'll never forget the first time I showed up to play. I had only been playing for a couple of months. But I practiced a lot and had played at other jams. I thought I was ready to rock out! But when I put my name on the sheet, and Bobby asked me about my playing, I made it clear that I was brand new and had a lot to learn. She put me in the next set!
Nervous, I asked her if she had any advice for me. What she said next stayed with me in every set I played for the 15 years since that evening:
"If you don't know what to play, then shut the fuck up."
She said it without malice, and so matter-of-factly that I didn't really know how to reply, other than to simply say, "oh, okay."
At first, I thought she was worried (and with good reason) that this new harp player would try and over-play everyone and simply annoy the whole room. I took her advice and didn't play much that evening. But I kept coming back, and my playing progressed rapidly. Before long I was invited to join a couple of local bands. It was an exciting time.
It was only much later on that I understood the true, deeper purpose of Bobby's priceless, "straight goods" advice. Bobby wanted me to see that to play well with others, you need to learn how to listen first. If you listen to the music, you will pay attention to subtle queues, and find the right place to contribute. If not, you won't learn how to make whatever you CAN play contribute to the music. Rather your playing will just overlap the music and sound out of place, exactly what you want to avoid. Players who just focus on playing, won't learn how to listen. And their playing won't contribute to the music. It's as simple at that.
This I feel is the essential foundation of learning how to "socialize" as a musician. You know what you can play, and you know what you cannot. Be honest with yourself, get up on stage, wait for the song to start, and listen. Listen to the song, look around at the other musicians, and eventually you'll hear that spot coming where what you can play will match up with what's happening, and you'll simply step in and contribute. If you don't hear that spot yet, keep waiting. IT WILL COME! It's that easy.
I can't count the number of songs in which I never played a note. I simply couldn't add anything to the song to make it better; and that was okay. Because on the next song, the guitarist who got to rock out on a whole 48 bars in the last song passed me 24 extra bars in the next. Good jams are like that, flexible, collaborative, and well organized.
Learn to keep silent when you don't know what to play, and you will easily spot the places where you CAN play, and play well. Over time, as your skill and experience develop, you will find yourself playing more, because you can contribute more. You will feel this happen over time. And one day, a guitar player, or the drummer, or even the bass player will yell at you from across the stage: "Keep going man! Sounds Great!" It's the best feeling in the world.
This really is the fastest way to becoming a "social" harp player.
Last Edited by Pineapple Frenzy on Feb 17, 2014 6:54 PM
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MindTheGap
275 posts
Feb 17, 2014
11:45 PM
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Pineapple Frenzy - what a great post, thank you!
The answers are here. I'll be looking out for the presence of a Bobby or a Rick running the show and keeping everything sweet.
The advice to play sparingly comes up alot - but I'm willing to bet it's hard to do first time up!
Sounds like you tuned in quickly to what was needed and had a good experience. When you were further down the line, what did you then see and think about other newcomers?
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lumpy wafflesquirt
762 posts
Feb 18, 2014
9:15 AM
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my wife went to a jam session recently, She came back with some lovely Blackberry and apple :^)
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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Ugly Bones Ryan
54 posts
Feb 18, 2014
2:20 PM
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I started a band with a few dudes from my school. I don't know if you are still studying but it's easy to find musicians who are your classmates, teachers, etc.
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Rick Davis
2978 posts
Feb 18, 2014
2:32 PM
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Pineapple: When in doubt, lay out.
Good standard advice. It is part of my jam intro remarks.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Pineapple Frenzy
2 posts
Feb 19, 2014
3:43 PM
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@MindTheGap
To answer your question,
I've seen a lot of newcomers of both varieties come and go, the ones who listen and wait, and the ones who keep their heads down and play over everything. While a few of the veteran musicians will say something to the latter type afterwards, for the most part its not really necessary since those folks rarely show up for more than a jam or two. It seems they simply have something they want to say, everyone else be damned, and once they have said it, they're gone.
For the ones that come back regularly, more polite encouragement often nips the problem at the bud; people just need a reminder sometimes. The folks who show up ready to listen and eager to learn usually make steady progress, and with few exceptions, develop into fine social musicians.
I suppose attitude and personality have as much to do with musical progress as intelligence and raw talent.
And like a lot of other activities in life, music offers a medium in which people's innate personality traits shine brightly for all to see. Think of these as gem stones. Playing with others illuminates the selfish and the gracious with the same light. The quality of the stone determines what is reflected back to those around.
This is one of the reasons I enjoy jamming so much, and believe that jams are the very best places for helping talented young musicians mature.
To me, the music isn't some ritual or ideal for which one must simply hone skill and strive to perfect. Great music is simply what happens when a group of musicians (of any skill level) communicate well, understand each another, and understand themselves while up on stage.
In a way, I think a social musician is really just a social person who is learning a new language. Some are more fluent that others. But because they are social people first, their courtesy, politeness, patience, and empathy enable fellowship with others who are more musically fluent, and opens the path for learning. Fluency in the language of music is something a musician will continue to develop throughout his lifetime. No one ever stops learning unless he stops playing. But then he isn't a musician any more, is he?
Having said that, being anti-social hasn't prevented some people from becoming very successful musicians. But are they the kind of folk with whom I would want to play? Are they social musicians? I think not.
Last Edited by Pineapple Frenzy on Feb 21, 2014 9:39 PM
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nacoran
7544 posts
Feb 19, 2014
4:38 PM
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Go to jams. Work up solo tunes for open mics (it may not be obvious at first since you aren't playing with anyone else up there, but open mics are a great way to start conversations with other musicians). Busk. Play at bus stops when you are waiting for a bus. You want to work on several skills- playing with people, playing in front of people to get confidence, and playing in front of people to learn how to work the crowd.
Attitude is important. Be gracious. Thank hosts, treat everyone well. I've seen several local musicians who were good musically who were total jerks. The audience and potential collaborators pick up on that. I saw a young rapper ask if there was anyone in the audience who could beatbox behind him. A guy nervously volunteered, but said he was rusty. The rapper invited him up, and when the performance didn't gel the rapper blamed it on the beatboxer, with a hot mic. Even although he wasn't great, lots of performers would have called the beatboxer up to play with them. The rapper was pretty much persona non grata after that though.
It's easy to think, when you are just getting your legs under you, that everyone is ahead of you on the curve, but you'll run into people newer than you. When they ask your advice, let them know you aren't an expert, but with that caveat, offer them whatever advice you have (as long as they asked!) A lot of it is just making friends with other musicians and showing them that you are trying to make the song sound good, not just tooting your own horn.
Be brave. That's often my downfall. When my band was playing open mics regularly I would usually be the only one with a late enough morning to stay for the whole show and sometimes I'd get asked by other bands to come up and play with them. They'd heard me play and wanted me to play with them, but I'd still worry that I wasn't good enough and I'd almost always bow out. My comfort zone was playing songs I'd already practiced with friends, in front of other people, not playing jams in with strangers in front of other people. Then the band stalled. Fear is the mind killer.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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Pineapple Frenzy
3 posts
Feb 19, 2014
7:14 PM
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Fear is a big one. Everyone wants to get up and have an awesome set, an awesome solo, an awesome time. But quite often the biggest barrier to reaching that goal is the anticipation of the goal, or the fear of not reaching it at all. What makes those high points so valuable is their rarity. This to me is the best reason to simply relax and not sweat a wrong note, missed stop, or a rough set, no matter how crowded the house is. For the most part, the only one who remembers a bad set is the musician himself. So if the only obstacle between me and a great set is fear, and I'm the only one who will really care if I have a bad set, then what have I been worrying about this whole time?
This doesn't always work, but it's the state of mind I visualize every time I go out to play.
Last Edited by Pineapple Frenzy on Feb 21, 2014 9:36 PM
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Oisin
1076 posts
Feb 19, 2014
7:21 PM
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Mind the Gap and others. Here is a link to some very useful advice given by the Jam-master at one of the best blues jams in london, the coach and horses in Leyton.If you every get a chance go and have a night out here...they are very harp friendly...even have their own valve amp for harp use!! Hope you find this as useful as I did.
http://www.coachandhorsesbluesjam.com/essential_fyi.shtml
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Oisin
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Rubes
805 posts
Feb 20, 2014
12:02 AM
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@ Rick....pardon my antipodean ignorance......but would that be Budweiser, or...........?
(wouldn't mind crossing the pacific one day to visit )
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Old Man Rubes at Reverbnation
Dads in Space at Reverbnation
Benny and Rubes at Reverbnation
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MindTheGap
287 posts
Feb 20, 2014
12:24 AM
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Pineapple Frenzy - Thanks, those are helpful ideas, This one in particular chimes with me...
"..music isn't some ritual or ideal for which one must simply hone skill and strive to perfect. Great music is simply what happens when a group of musicians (of any skill level) communicate well..."
If I could find a jam where that concept is in operation, I'd be happy.
nacoran - Also good stuff, alternative ways to get familiar with playing in public.
Oisin - That's a great set of guidelines. I see they say other jams are re-using them too. Sounds like a well-run evening (vera = bobby = rick?)
Between you, I think you covered all the angles. Now just got to go and do it...
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MTG
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messy ventura
125 posts
Feb 20, 2014
7:12 AM
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Pineapple Frenzy. Great contributions in your posts. Welcome to the forum .
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The Iceman
1469 posts
Feb 20, 2014
8:10 AM
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My personal history with this problem...
I remember practicing at home, memorizing a solo, driving to the jam practicing it in the car, etc, only to get up on stage and have all my preparations go right out the window in the heat of the moment.
Having fallen off this horse, I got right back on and repeated this sequence many times before I was relaxed enough on stage to pull it off.
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The Iceman
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Frank
3863 posts
Feb 20, 2014
8:36 AM
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Live in or near Chicago you got this as a helping tool :)
Blues Harmonica Performance Class with Joe Filisko · Shoji Naito
Learn how to work with a Chicago blues band
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The Centipide Saloon
Tip Your Waiter Please
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Rick Davis
2990 posts
Feb 20, 2014
12:33 PM
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Rubes, bud is slang for high quality marijuana, which is now legal in Colorado.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Memphis Mini harp amp
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
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Pineapple Frenzy
4 posts
Feb 20, 2014
6:57 PM
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@ Mind the Gap
Thanks man. Can't believe I waited so long before joining the group. I've been lurking for years.
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Jehosaphat
690 posts
Feb 20, 2014
8:56 PM
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@pineapple
I feel like someone has kidnapped my brain(such as it is)
But you have put my thoughts into a much more eloquent format than i could ever do.
Great post(s) and so true.
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AZBluesHarper
40 posts
Feb 22, 2014
11:34 AM
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Hey Arcadia...I'm a bit late to this thread but I live in the Phoenix area and I'd love to get together to "socialize" a little harp. I have an email address for you from a previous thread so I'll try contacting you there. Hope we can meet up sometime or perhaps hit a jam!
Steve
AZBluesHarper
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