walterharp
1212 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:18 PM
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Lets say you stumble on to $1200... but with the caveat that you can only spend it on either a half dozen high quality custom harps or a nice tube amp.. which do you pick?
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rbeetsme
1417 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:19 PM
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Yes
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walterharp
1213 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:40 PM
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"or" rick :-)
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mattfolk327
39 posts
Nov 12, 2013
7:56 PM
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I would spend it on the harps and then buy a cheap fender champ amp with money from work.
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nacoran
7326 posts
Nov 12, 2013
8:07 PM
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Depends entirely on what you already have!
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Nate
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easyreeder
437 posts
Nov 12, 2013
8:15 PM
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Amp. If you buy the harps you'll still wish you had the amp, but once the amp is out of the way you can save up for the custom harps one at a time. After the first one you'll know if you think they're worth the money, and you might change your mind.
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dougharps
472 posts
Nov 12, 2013
8:55 PM
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Unless you need custom overblow quality harps to play your music you can do fine playing out of the box XOs, MBDs, Manjis, or Seydels Steels, or even Sp20s. The quality now is much better than when custom harps originated. You can use the leftover cash for a decent amp.
If you have harps adequate for your style and need an amp to play gigs in large rooms over loud guitar amps, then spend it all on an amp... if you really need that much amp.
If you aren't already needing a new amp so you can hear yourself and be heard when you gig, but you are trying to develop your playing in styles for which the harps you have are really holding you back, then buy custom harps, but try one before you spend that much on several. You have to be playing at a certain level for a custom harp to be worth the investment.
In my opinion most of us don't need boutique and/or large amps, or need custom harps, but both are great if you have the cash. I have a few custom harps, and several good vintage tube amps, and I greatly enjoy them all. They came from money earned from paying gigs over years, and were acquired over a number of years, one at a time.
It really comes down to how well you play, in what style, and in what settings as to which you should get with your money, or if you should even get any of them at all at this time.
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Doug S.
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2chops
190 posts
Nov 13, 2013
6:54 AM
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Amp. I'm not good enough and don't gig enough to warrent a set of custom harps. A Custom C would be nice. But, $1200 to spend on one or the other? Amp for sure.
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I'm workin on it. I'm workin on it.
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HarpNinja
3588 posts
Nov 13, 2013
6:57 AM
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Harps.
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Mantra Customized Harmonicas
My Website
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Frank
3261 posts
Nov 13, 2013
7:09 AM
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People still get confused about the what came first - the chicken or egg dilemma...But if you can figure that riddle out - you will have your answer :)
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HawkeyeKane
2155 posts
Nov 13, 2013
7:20 AM
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Can't I do both? I'd find a good, ballsy amp that only took up about 2/3 to 3/4 of the $1200, and then use the surplus to fix my inoperative OOTB harps, cause I'm no custom player.
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Hawkeye Kane
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Rick Davis
2677 posts
Nov 13, 2013
7:34 AM
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Spend about $900 on a Mission Delta Sonic amp and the rest on a couple of HarpNinja customs.
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-Little Rick Davis
The Blues Harp Amps Blog
The Mile High Blues Society
Last Edited by Rick Davis on Nov 13, 2013 7:43 AM
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harpwrench
718 posts
Nov 13, 2013
8:07 AM
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Hee hee buy 6 Stage I Spiers SP20s and pick up a tweed DeVille on craigslist.
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Barley Nectar
177 posts
Nov 13, 2013
10:24 AM
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Well Walt, you gota be a pretty fine player to justify the cost of custom harps. But even a, run of the mill, player need a good amp. The amp will extend the life of the harps and is a must, IMO, if you are going to gig out. (make money)...BN
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smwoerner
228 posts
Nov 13, 2013
10:30 AM
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90% on whisky and women.
10% on a harp and a cheap amp so you can tell stories about the women who've left when you run out of whisky and money.
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Purveyor of Optimized New and Refurbished Harmonicas.
scott@scottwoerner.com
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arzajac
1198 posts
Nov 13, 2013
11:22 AM
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Custom harps are not just about playing overblows. Anyone, at any level, can appreciate a well-playing harp. It will impact the music you make.
It no different than any other instrument, any good teacher will recommend you get the best instrument you can afford.
It's much easier to expand your abilities by practicing on a custom harp than to do so on an out-of-the-box harp. There's lots of stuff you can't even play on an average out-of-the-box harp - and I'm not even talking about overblows and overdraws.
Fortunately, one really good custom won't put too much of a dent in $1200. I would start there and blow the rest on the amp.
Leave it to the future whether you but more customs afterwards... It may be that it takes just one custom harp to open doors for you.
You can always sell the amp - maybe you'll even make a buck and buy more custom harps. Lol!
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Nov 13, 2013 11:23 AM
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chromaticblues
1510 posts
Nov 13, 2013
11:34 AM
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Well you need to be able to play the harp very well before playing through an amp even sounds good.
So I'm with Frank!
Get the chicken, feed it and it will produce eggs!
Or something like that?
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MP
2982 posts
Nov 13, 2013
11:50 AM
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smwoerner reminded me of a joke.
I spent most of the money on whiskey and women. The rest i just wasted. :-)
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i still have a little Hohner stock for reed replacement in three common keys.
when these are gone i'm out of the biz.
click MP for my e-mail address and more info.
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MP
2983 posts
Nov 13, 2013
12:01 PM
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Heh, Heh, Good one!
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i still have a little Hohner stock for reed replacement in three common keys.
when these are gone i'm out of the biz.
click MP for my e-mail address and more info.
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dougharps
473 posts
Nov 13, 2013
12:46 PM
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@arzajac
I didn't mean to imply that custom harps are only for overblow players. I agree that a reasonably competent player can benefit from a good instrument. I love my custom harps for all kinds of playing! However, a good out of the box harp is adequate for most non overblow playing, and they play far better than past retail harps.
You mentioned other musical instruments and how teachers recommend learning on a good instrument. If you buy a better flute as a beginner you don't risk ruining it by poor technique. I believe that with harmonica, unless you have developed your technique to the point of having good breath control and thus not ruining reeds all the time through abuse, you are wasting your money on customs.
Starting with one custom as you suggest (NOT "half dozen high quality custom harps" per the original post) is not a bad idea if you have developed enough control to not be wrecking reeds on an ongoing basis.
In my post above I even suggested getting one custom to try before buying a bunch.
As to buying the amp, I love a nice tube amp with a good mic, but I have seen a tendency for people to buy more amp than they can use in the venues they play. Before you spend $1200 on an amp you should consider whether you will get $1200 worth of use out of it.
If you want to develop good amp technique and play out with tube amplifier distortion, then a good amp and mic are tools to have.
If you want to build good playing technique and overblows, a custom harp can help if you are ready for one.
Basic competency at playing doesn't require either custom harps or an amp, just practice...
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Doug S.
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LSC
531 posts
Nov 13, 2013
1:19 PM
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I'm thinking some of y'all didn't recognize walterharp. He's a fine player and been around a long time. At least I think it's the same guy I'm thinking of with that handle.
In any event my two cents worth, depending on how much amp is required for the type of gig walter is doing and the budget, I think I'd go for either a 2nd hand RI Bassman or a tweed Gibson GA-6 Lancer. Both can be had for around the $700 mark.
The GA-6 is surprisingly loud for it's size and can handle most bar gigs with a guitar player who's not brain dead and deaf. Do get it up off the floor though. It has the advantage of being likely to increase in value over time not to mention bonus points for cool factor.
A RI Bassman gives more grunt if required and if bought at the right price may not increase in value but is unlikely to go down either, unlike any amp bought new. I rarely buy new for just that reason. It's a Fender and a proven amp used by a high percentage of pros so reliability is not an issue. Yeah, some tube and speaker swaps are useful but tubes are not expensive and speaker swaps can be done when and if you think it's necessary or a good thing.
The balance of the money could be spent on "custom" harps but I see people paying crazy prices which frankly is beyond my understanding. 16:23 Custom Harmonicas can do a really nice set up and half valve for not a lot of money.
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LSC
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LSC
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walterharp
1214 posts
Nov 13, 2013
1:33 PM
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hey lsc,
been on the board for a while, but just an average player.. you may be thinking of walter tore, who was around here for a while.. he would spend on recording gear.. I know what I would do, my question was more to get an idea of if people thought ease of playability ranked higher than gear
I know guys who play a 5-35K guitars through a $600 amp, just wondering where you all put your balance...
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arzajac
1199 posts
Nov 13, 2013
1:58 PM
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Doug: A custom harp should last longer than a stock harp - and will usually have a more robust warranty than an out-of-the-box harp.
I believe a lot of people have the misconception that custom harps are fragile and set up to be tightly adjusted for use with light breath only. This is false.
A custom harp is customized to your breath force as well as other parameters to best suit your playing style. It is airtight but not meant to be stiff.
Often reeds blow out because people compensate for an unresponsive harp with extra breath force. This takes its toll on the harp and also builds up bad habits. In fact, I would recommend a raw beginner start on a custom harp. By doing that, they would learn proper technique quicker. ("Is it me or is it the harp?")
But if you happen to blow out a reed on a custom, most customizers offer free repairs within the warranty period. So you will not ruin a custom harp the first time you play it.
And sure stock harps are much better than they were a few years ago. But can you play the 3-hole draw bands with accuracy on most stock harps? How about both the 10-hole blow bends? For example, the fist octave of the major scale in first and third position? Or the upper octave major scale in first? Legato?
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Custom overblow harps. Harmonica service and repair.
Last Edited by arzajac on Nov 13, 2013 2:29 PM
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LSC
532 posts
Nov 13, 2013
6:43 PM
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@walterharp - Yeah you're right. Wrong guy. Thought it was an odd question for the other Walter to be asking.
As to the question in the context of playability. In that context I'd start with the instrument. But customization can cover many areas depending on what it is you require and are trying to accomplish.
I'm a pretty straight forward player. Never been into overblows and such, though one must admire and respect those who can do that sort of thing. I started on MB. Later went to Special 20s and dabbled in Herring and Lee Oskars. All out of the box. Was never really satisfied with any of them for one reason or another. Then a few years ago I discovered the Seydel 1847. My first thought was, "Now this is a proper musical instrument." Yes, they are relatively expensive but so far replacements have been few and far between so I think in the long run they are cheaper in terms of operating cost. And of course, a better instrument inspires better playing. You're not fighting the faults of the instrument.
A couple of years ago I decided to try "customization". Really it was more like taking a guitar for a proper set up then real customizing. Again, just like a proper guitar set up, the instrument was more in tune and easier to play. So now I have any new instrument set up by Greg at 16:23 and I recently sent him a few to set up again, just like one would do with a guitar. With heavy use they will get a out of spec or a reed will choke and they do need a proper cleaning. Greg also talked me into trying out half valving, which was another revelation.
But for me it all starts because the 1847 is a proper instrument not a throw away. So I think that's where I would start. I'd take one or two of my favorite keys of whatever brand to one of the many custom guys around and have it set up with particular attention to your particular playing style. See what you think and then decide what you want from there.
As to amps, it's somewhat the same. As soon as you go electric the mic and amp become parts of your instrument. I good amp set up right is more responsive, less prone to feedback, and produces a baseline good sound. Again, you're not fighting the instrument.
Jackie Stewart, race car driving legend, talked often about setting up his cars. He insisted that they be as easy to drive as possible. He didn't want to expend focus and energy fighting the car, especially as his style of driving was very smooth and efficient with minimal stress on the equipment.
I'm really really lucky. After decades of playing, with a good chunk of that making my living, and a lot of wheeling and dealing in gear I now have about as perfect a setup as one could ever want. Seydel 1847s set up by 16:23, down a Greg Heumann mic with a CR black label element, into either a GA-6 Lancer with a Kinder AFB in front or straight into a SJ Avenger. I occasionally use a LW Delay.
Just this week during sound check my drummer said to me, and not for the first time, "You've always got such good tone." And there in is a lesson I learned from my recording mentor. If you have a good sound to start with then even if you're not playing up to scratch on a given night bottom line it will always sound good. After that it's up to you to work the jelly.
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LSC
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BluesJacketman
46 posts
Nov 13, 2013
6:54 PM
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Its all about the mic and this is the best one out there:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181255564560?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649
sounds just like a black label for a cheap price!
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y'all don't got nothing on me!
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Frank
3268 posts
Nov 13, 2013
6:54 PM
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I predict that Walter will also purchase 6 chromatic harmonicas 4- 364's, a solo tuned and 3 thunderbirds within in the next 5 to 20 years :)
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Kingley
3272 posts
Nov 13, 2013
9:25 PM
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It would all depend on the circumstances of the situation. If I was gigging and had a decent set of harps I'd buy a decent amp. If I was just playing at home and going to the odd jam, then I'd buy some Marine Band Deluxe and then get a small used amp. If I could already play well, had a decent amp and decent harps then I'd invest all the cash in another motorcycle.
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SuperBee
1527 posts
Nov 14, 2013
2:35 AM
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hmm i suspect thats your old mic BJM.
Frank, I predict you'll make some more predictions before you tire of your current predilection
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walterharp
1215 posts
Nov 14, 2013
7:07 AM
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you are right Frank, I am further down that path than many assumed when I asked the question.. 6 more custom harps or another sweet amp is probably a more accurate portrayal of my situation
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