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isaacullah
1803 posts
Feb 17, 2012
12:49 PM
The new list price for Marine Bands and Special 20's.

Ouch.

You can buy a decent Ukulele for that...


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Kingley
1809 posts
Feb 17, 2012
12:54 PM
You guys are still getting them a little cheaper than us here in the UK.
toddlgreene
3541 posts
Feb 17, 2012
12:56 PM
'decent ukelele'-isn't that an oxymoron?


Man, when I began playing in'89, Lee Oskars where 20$. I think SP20s were a couple bucks behind that. Thing is, my income in the 23 years since has at least quadrupled...so I guess I shouldn't feel the sting, but DAYUM that's pricey.
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Todd L. Greene

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Harptime
14 posts
Feb 17, 2012
12:59 PM
The actual new list price as of 3/1/12 is $54.00

The $37.99 is minimum advertised price

I remember getting 3 Marine Bands for $10.00 in NYC in the mid 70's
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Warren Bee
Marketing & Harmonica Raconteur

Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2012 1:01 PM
GEEZER1
142 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:12 PM
Wow that hurts,, No inflation, but prices keep going up, what going on with that??? Harps have gone up in price more than wages have. Huangs etc are looking better.
HawkeyeKane
721 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:27 PM
I've said this about myself relating to many different things, and this is no exception...I was born thirty years later than I shoulda been. God, how I would love to be able to buy 3 MB's for only a Hamilton.
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Hawkeye Kane
capnj
14 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:39 PM
Really glad I got 9 of my hohners fixed with reed replacements and retuned by a pro harp player,and board member MP.Mark was fast,courteous,and a pleasure to deal with,what a wonderful service.

Most were sp20s,but did have a blue midnight in A that is supposed to have the chicago tuning,and to my knowledge hohner doesn't sell that replacement plate tuned.Mark replaced a reed tuned her right,and added another screw that made 3 instead of 2 holding to the comb.I highly recommend these great restorations by MP,I love playing these babies already broke in and in tune.
RyanMortos
1268 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:48 PM
I'm still a hohner guy mainly. I like the reeds, I like that they aren't welded. But if they keep raising prices while suzuki & seydel remain generally the same I'm not sure for how much longer. I mean when special 20s cost the same as 1847s, lol. Who knows maybe with the increased rates they'll have better trained workers & we won't need to open them up day 1 to fix gapping & reed alignment.

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RyanMortos

~Ryan

Advanced Intermediate: based on Adam's What Level Are You? guide.

"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright

Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)

See My Profile for contact info, etc.


Hobostubs Ashlock
1624 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:54 PM
isaacullah said
You can buy a decent Ukulele


...Lol that aint no lie,I saw last night that guitar center has a rouge acoustic guitar with enclosed tuners for $59.99 whats the deal with harps and prices rising,guitars are better (exspecially the cheap models)built and cheaper than ever were(debatable but still you get the point;-),but harps keep going up,I think there trying to screw the harp player we alll need to go on strike;-)



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Hobostubs

Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2012 1:55 PM
MrVerylongusername
2225 posts
Feb 17, 2012
1:59 PM
More than anything it's the economic crisis in the Euro that'll be to blame
GEEZER1
144 posts
Feb 17, 2012
2:15 PM
Its a pity we don't make harmonicas in the USA. Wm Kratt made a good harmonica. with factories automated now, Why can't a decent harp at a decent price be made in America. Or Mexico. whatever.
shadoe42
126 posts
Feb 17, 2012
5:04 PM
You know that sounds like a lot. But if you stop and compare it to other instruments its not so much. even if you put the Sp20 in the middle of the pack it is still a good deal when compared with say guitars. Decent middle of the road guitar is in that 300-600 range. Yes there are playable instruments at lower prices but its really hard to get a well playing one for less than 200. So at least for me paying 60ish for a good harp ain't so bad :)


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My Electronic Music World
Me With Harp
MrVerylongusername
2229 posts
Feb 17, 2012
5:07 PM
Yeah, but I don't need a new guitar each time I change key.
Martin
27 posts
Feb 17, 2012
5:24 PM
Yeah, and most guitars also last considerably longer than an hour, which was roughly the total playing time of my last LO before two reeds crapped out.
groyster1
1761 posts
Feb 17, 2012
5:26 PM
mark has been getting a lot of business lately and it stands to reason and if you are not germaphobic,you can get great used marine band1896s on ebay-I have a Bb and E that I won that still have the nails but play so well and an A that 5 draw was dead but sent to mark across the pacific-marine bands are great harps if you only play 1st 2nd and 3rd
Stickman
732 posts
Feb 17, 2012
8:08 PM
Harptime said "I remember getting 3 Marine Bands for $10.00 in NYC in the mid 70's" Can anybody else verify that MB's cost $3.33 circa 1975? I have to wonder about that because I have heard otherwise on this forum. Personally, I have no Idea because I was 5 at the time.
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Harptime
15 posts
Feb 17, 2012
9:31 PM
It may have been a little earlier like '73 or '74. Terminal Music on 43rd Street. I wanna think that they were going for $3.50 or $3.75 each. I bought 3 at a time and they charged me the ten bucks, cash money, no sales tax and out the door. Thats when Manny's and Sam Ash and We Buy Guitars and a few others were very hot and around the corner. Terminal was a small shop in that neighborhood.

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Warren Bee
Marketing & Harmonica Raconteur

Last Edited by on Feb 17, 2012 9:32 PM
billy_shines
96 posts
Feb 17, 2012
10:12 PM
my last band played in E,A,D,G and one song in B. how many harps you need to play blues?
bluzmn
62 posts
Feb 17, 2012
11:13 PM
I started playing harp in 1966; I was a teenager, and my allowance was $5 a week, so I used to complain that Marine Bands cost $1.25!
Libertad
39 posts
Feb 18, 2012
1:44 AM
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was right.

Thank you Monty Python!
Pistolcat
160 posts
Feb 18, 2012
3:51 AM
The fact that people do fix their old harps with new reeds themselves or have a guy like MP do it probably decrease new harp sales. This leading to the manufactures upping their prices to stay in black. Stands to reason when you think about it...
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rbeetsme
645 posts
Feb 18, 2012
6:13 AM
I have over a dozen vintage NOS MB's I'll sell you for 36.99 each. Or maybe not.

Oh yeah, you could buy an ukulele for 37.99, but it wouldn't be decent.

Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2012 6:14 AM
groyster1
1764 posts
Feb 18, 2012
8:40 AM
NOS is????
isaacullah
1806 posts
Feb 18, 2012
12:22 PM
I suppose I should have said "You could almost buy a decent beginners ukulele for that".

The one I was thinking about is the Kala Makala MK-S, which goes for somewhere in the realm of $40. It's not supposed to be a top-of-the line fully professional instrument, but then again, neither are Special 20's and Marine Bands. From what I've read (i'm not a uke player, but am thinking of getting into it), that uke is basically of the minimum quality one should ever buy (and there are certainly cheaper ones of lesser quality), and can certainly be used by better players to make music. That's exactly how I would categorize the Spec 20 and Marine Band. It's just interesting to me that the price of a "minimum quality" 10 hole diatonic is rapidly approaching that of an instrument that would seem to be more expensive to produce...

Does anyone know if Suzuki's, Seydels, and Lee Oskars are going to go up again too? If not, I could certainly see Hohner loosing out to Lee Oskars in Point of Sale "impulse" purchases... Unless they are planning on putting more emphasis on the Bluesbender and the Big River...
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== I S A A C ==
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Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2012 1:24 PM
Hobostubs Ashlock
1628 posts
Feb 18, 2012
12:31 PM
yea I saw some high dollar Ukes the other day,I havent played one,but I have every other string instrument,well not really but I have a few so Im thinking about trying a uke,The Honer blue midnight is a cool harp I just tried its like a better version of the big river,its still a basic harp but I like it
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Hobostubs
Kingley
1813 posts
Feb 18, 2012
12:34 PM
"It's not supposed to be a top-of-the line fully professional instrument, but then again, neither are Special 20's and Marine Bands"

Isaac - I think a lot of pro players might disagree with you there. The Marine Band in particular has been the main choice of pro players for decades, even when Hohner had serious production issues with it.
RyanMortos
1272 posts
Feb 18, 2012
12:50 PM
As a wannabe professional harmonica player who chooses to have access to all 12 keys & at least one chromatic whenever possible so I don't look at harmonicas in terms of $37.99 a piece (which is really only $3 increase for special 20s). I look at them in terms of $38 * 12 or $450+. You can get a professional 88-weighted key keyboard for just a little more then that but that keyboard will likely outlast those harmonicas and maintain a decent resale value.

Hohner doesn't have too much to fear about impulse buyers. At least not at physical shops where more then likely the only harmonicas they sell are made by Hohner (or some garbage company no one cares about, lol). I haven't walked into a non-harmonica specific music store that carried lee oskars, suzukis, or seydels.

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RyanMortos

~Ryan

Advanced Intermediate: based on Adam's What Level Are You? guide.

"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Steven Wright

Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)

See My Profile for contact info, etc.


rbeetsme
648 posts
Feb 18, 2012
1:05 PM
I have paid more for some ukes than I ever thought I'd spend. And they were used and a pretty good bargain. But like a guitar, you can spend a little or a lot.
clyde
241 posts
Feb 18, 2012
1:19 PM
i was selling harps at the time and was getting twice that $3.33 price you were talking about. shame on me...

Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2012 1:20 PM
isaacullah
1807 posts
Feb 18, 2012
1:37 PM
@Kingley: Absolutely! I wasn't talking about a player' perspective, but rather Hohner's marketing perspective... what I meant is that Hohner likely sees those two as in their sort of minimum level "quality" range, but not in their "professional" range, which are probably the MBD, X-over, Thunderbird, etc. Hohner are less overt about this than are other companies, like Suzuki, who will tell you right on their website that the Folkmaster, Harpmaster, and Bluesmaster are "Hobbiest" level harps, Promasters and the Manji are "Professional" level harps, and that the Pure Harp and Fire Breath are "Specialty" harps, and their pricing scheme reflects that.

Most instrument manufacturers are more like Suzuki, and less like Hohner, when rating, marketing, and pricing their instruments.

Yet for all that, I still play marine bands! ;)
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== I S A A C ==
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Joe_L
1740 posts
Feb 18, 2012
3:00 PM
My first Marine Band cost me $7 in 1981.

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Honkin On Bobo
962 posts
Feb 20, 2012
4:29 AM
Just bought a special 20 yesterday, from my local music store (in USA) $32.99, price hasn't changed appreciably in 2 or 3 years. After reading this thread, thought I was going to be shelling out the higher price. I was pleasantly suprised, something that doesn't seem to happen very often these days.

Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2012 4:50 AM
SuperBee
72 posts
Feb 20, 2012
5:05 AM
hohners (MB, SP20, BH, PH) currently $55 in Australian retailers. LO about the same. My Manji was more like $90. obviously can do better online especially if you buy sets, but when you need one in a hurry you gotta shop local. i like to shop local generally, but its a big call when you know its gonna be $15 per unit more.

actually finding the nailed harps a little easier to work on these days. a lot quicker and less fiddly to get the covers on and off at least.
nicewrk
32 posts
Feb 20, 2012
5:09 AM
Sounds like gas /what the market will bear.
Just broadcasting my unhappyness about the Hohner price increases, after
trying other harps, suzuki, seydel, etc on my 40yr harp journey. I remember buying
mb's and blues harps fer 2.89 at the local record store (remember those? , made of
vinyl?)
I finally settled back to Sp20's durable good out the box, playable harps. Then
after watching the economy rip the heart out of everything else so goes the cost of
harps. What the music scene needs is real blues players. We dont need $400 CUSTOM
HARPS AND FAUX ALLIGATOR purses. We needs kids inventing instruments nailed to the
sides of junk cars.
Didley bows made from discarded sunny d bottles. Harmonicas made from fish bones
found behind the local markets. Blues is about the battle to survive in hard times.
WE sure got those. Learn to replace reeds and friends who have passed on!

The Blues is a feeling ....Play em if you gots em

Half Blind Mango
isaacullah
1811 posts
Feb 20, 2012
10:24 PM
I recently acquired my first Delta Frost, which is the same as a Suzuki Harpmaster. It is fantastic. At $33.50, it will likely be my new harp of choice. The only thing I'm not keen on is the welded reeds. I replace reeds by reusing the rivets of the doner reed. While it is not impossible to make my own rivets (I know of a couple methods of doing so), I rather not have to do that, and I'd also rather not have to try to use screws. (I don't have a real drill press, nor do I have 0-80 screws or a 0-80 tap) BUT I haven't broken a reed in a year or so, so perhaps it's not that big of a deal anyway...
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== I S A A C ==
Super Awesome!

View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!
HarpNinja
2182 posts
Feb 21, 2012
6:42 AM
I just went to Rockin' Ron's site and quickly grabbed the current prices for some of the more popular "professional" level harmonicas. All the companies save LO have cheaper options on Ron's site, but I wanted to put the cost of a MB in perspective. A MB or Sp20 isn't really all that expensive. It seems like these Hohner's cost too much money now posts come up all the time, but I never see anyone really doing their homework or hating on the price point of other companies.

Seydel Session 29.95
Suzuki Blues 33.50
Suzuki Harp 33.50
Hohner Sp20 34.50
Hohner MB 34.50
Lee Oskar 37.99
Hohner GM 38
Seydel Pro 39.95
Suzuki Pro 53
Suzuki Manji 61.50
Suzuki Hammond 62
Hohner XO 65
Suzuki Olive 65
Seydel Fav 69.95
Seydel 1847 89.95

IMO, all the companies have competitive prices. IMO, if you don't like the costs, than by all means buy cheaper, but don't complain about your $20 harp sucking compared to your $90 harp. IMO, stop breaking harps by mishandling them. IMO, learn to fix them when they break.

I don't even carry spares. I mean, I probably have spares from my most common keys, but I don't worry about having extra harps in all keys. I just fix them when they break (which, beyond tuning, is almost never). If I break a harp at a gig, I just play a different position. If that won't work, I either ask to play the song in a different key or just don't play some of those tunes.

In 8 or so years of playing harmonicas in bands - usually a gig a week up until 2011, I have had a harp go sour on me at a gig exactly two times. One was a D that went flat on 4 draw and the other a G which snapped 5 draw.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
HarpNinja
2183 posts
Feb 21, 2012
6:44 AM
I am intentionally not editing the above post, but if you look at the median price of these "pro-level" harps (and realize I left some models out like the 1847 Noble and Marine Band Deluxe...heck, lesser priced harps like the Big River work for pros too) it comes out to be $39.95. I would wager that doing a full list of pro-type harps would have the MB sitting in a similar place on the list.

The median of the bottom quartile is $34.50. The upper quartile is $62 (all of a sudden a Crossover isn't that expensive either). In otherwords, a $38 MB isn't expensive - especially since the only real technical difference is the fact it has nails other than screws. However, one could also say that welded reeds or steel reeds offer just as much of a con regarding maintenance and basic tweaking. Welded reeds can't be swung as readily for embossing and they are trickier to replace. SS reeds are hard to replace with SS unless you have donor harps or buy replacement reedplates, and they are harder to tweak than brass.

I won't fully accept the "Hohner's blow out quicker so are less value" attitude without some sort of real evidence...I mean comparing the current brass at $38 a MB to other materials on the market played at the same pressure and for the same amount of time...both from a flattening the reed and breaking the reed standpoint.



***To clarify the above, I only carry one of each key to gigs. I have some spare keys at home, but for the most part, they are standards like F and E whereas I bring LF and LE to gigs.
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...

Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2012 6:55 AM
jiceblues
77 posts
Feb 21, 2012
7:25 AM
A SP20 is 45$ in my usual shop ( FRANCE)
Tuckster
978 posts
Feb 21, 2012
7:55 AM
Circa 1972,a MB was about $3.50. But I was making $5000 a year,which was decent money back then.
LittleBubba
190 posts
Feb 21, 2012
8:25 AM
Also, if you're like me, and don't tech your own harps, you can always retrieve your bag of "unplayable" harps from the closet and get a tech to repair them for you. In most cases, the problems are simple & inexpensive to fix.
I've got a local tech who is a veteran "intermediate" player and has made it his business to attend workshops every year. It's a passion of his, and he works crazy cheap (he's a retired print reporter).
I agree with the above sentiments that if you're hard on harps, it's a good time for self-evaluation.
barbequebob
1811 posts
Feb 21, 2012
8:27 AM
I still have several mid 70's catologs and price lists and in the mid 70's, the list price of the MB was $5.95 and I still remember going to Manny's Musical Instruments to buy them whenever I was in NYC for $3.54 apiece, and that included both the New York City as well as the New York State sales taxes.

My mom, who passed away about 10 years ago at the age of 82, remembered them when she was a child in Brooklyn, NY going for 25 cents each in just about any retail store you went to back in the 1930's.

A really cheap piece of crap guitar today you might be able to get on an online site like Musician's Friend goes usually for about $100 and better guitars go for a helluva lot more and many of them well over $1,000 a pop.

Don't expect prices going down anytime soon, like it or not. Like Rod Piazza once said, harp players are either too broke or too damned cheap to get the right stuff. Harp players seemongly just love to whine!!! (lol)
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Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
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LittleBubba
191 posts
Feb 21, 2012
8:33 AM
BTW, they've learned to clone Stradivarius violins, after years of doing magnetic resonance imaging and ultrasound research on a few of the originals. You can buy one of these clones for about $250,000. (U.S.)... about a million or two under the price of the real deal. Some of the best violinists in the world say that these instruments are very serviceable for the price. Whine,whine,whine (thanks BBQB).
HarpNinja
2188 posts
Feb 21, 2012
9:17 AM
I checked three different inflation calculators...a $3.50 MB in 1972 would cost $19 today (I wish!).

That is based on the harmonica being the EXACT same...which it isn't. The brass is a different alloy, the covers are now stainless steel, and the comb is now triple lacquered. I am guessing inflation takes into consideration things like the cost of oil, shipping, etc??? This assumes that the calculators are relatively accurate too...and factor in the impact of the global economy over 40yrs, as all these harps are imports to the US.

When comparing list prices, the % of inflation is statistically identical - but that isn't a real accurate source of overhead, etc, either.

I have no idea how to add up the change in overhead from 1972 to 2012, but it would appear that it would be twice as much as in 1972???
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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
timeistight
360 posts
Feb 21, 2012
9:37 AM
I don't think Hohner and the other big manufacturer's get enough credit. Brad Harrison was unable to make money despite charging three to four times the price of a Hohner, and despite the fact that he had almost no retail costs at all -- he was selling them faster than the he could make them.

It ain't as easy as it looks.

Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2012 7:32 AM
kudzurunner
3021 posts
Feb 21, 2012
12:13 PM
Musician's Friend has MB harps for around $35.

The key thing to understand is that the prices for stock harps have risen quite a bit more than the standard of living. Using a website called "The Inflation Calculator," I plugged in the price of a MB in 1975, when I began buying them--they were 5.95 in a cardboard box--and saw what that dollar amount would equal today:

What cost $5.95 in 1975 would cost $23.84 in 2010.

That's two years ago, but still: all things being equal, we might fairly expect MBs to cost around $25 today. And that, remember, was at my local mall; $5.95 was probably closer to the undiscounted price, not the discounted price (today) of $35.

The point is simple and clear: the prices of this particular item, a stock MB, have risen much more sharply than the cost of living increase over the past 35 years.

So it's not surprising that folks here are complaining. HarpNinja may be correct about the MB's parity with other brands, but still: decent stock harps have become more expensive than the cost of inflation alone would warrant.
MrVerylongusername
2239 posts
Feb 21, 2012
12:36 PM
Simply looking at the cost in year such and such and extrapolating the inflation to the current date is flawed

Back in 1975 (taking Adam's last example) Hohner was in West Germany, which had a stable economy and was using a different currency (the Deutschmark). It was also the only significant manufacture of harmonicas with a virtually global monopoly.

Fast forward to 2012: a re-unified Germany, an unstable currency (the Euro) Germany threatened with propping up failed economies in the Eurozone in the context of a global recession - in spite of its own financial difficulties. Factor in the changes in material costs that Mike mentioned, eco-taxation and the business/manufacturing implications of sustainability (which weren't even on the radar in '75). And the cherry on the top, the increased competition from the Far East.

In that context - I'm actually surprised I can still get a good Hohner harp without remortgaging my house.
HarpNinja
2189 posts
Feb 21, 2012
12:56 PM
"Fast forward to 2012: a re-unified Germany, an unstable currency (the Euro) Germany threatened with propping up failed economies in the Eurozone in the context of a global recession - in spite of its own financial difficulties. Factor in the changes in material costs that Mike mentioned, eco-taxation and the business/manufacturing implications of sustainability (which weren't even on the radar in '75). And the cherry on the top, the increased competition from the Far East."

I knew there had to be more to inflation than the calculator would suggest - for the simple fact we are talking about an import.

My economy background is really weak, but it has to be more than the fact the market just lets them run so much more money now. If that were the case, then why offer such cheap alternatives?

What was the price of the Chinese made harps back in the day? I wonder if there is more or less actual inflation.


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Mike
VHT Special 6 Mods
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas - When it needs to come from the soul...
harpwrench
574 posts
Feb 21, 2012
1:58 PM
Don't forget Hohner was more or less bankrupt by the mid nineties. And quality was very bad due to old worn out equipment. Since being rescued, a lot of $$ has been invested, and IMO they're making the best harps they ever have. So throw a couple more factors into the math. The cost of having technology that wasn't available in the 70's, and the willingness to make the needed profit to stay in business.
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Spiers Harmonicas
isaacullah
1814 posts
Feb 21, 2012
4:29 PM
I just wanted to clarify that $37.99 will be the new minimum advertised price as of March 1st. Until then, the minimum advertised price is still somewhere around $34. As you know, MAP is NOT the lowest price you can find, as retailers are allowed to sell lower than that, but only for sales and the like (and they aren't allowed to list a price lower than that price as a normal price). It's likely that most of us will be paying somewhere around the $36 mark for mail-order, and somewhere around the $40 mark for in-store retail. So, it's not a bad idea to hit the net right now, and buy any harps you are thinking about buying before the price goes up.


And yes, for the record, I blame first Greece, then Italy, and then Spain -- in that order -- for these price hikes! ;)
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== I S A A C ==
Super Awesome!

View my videos on YouTube!
Visit my reverb nation page!

Last Edited by on Feb 21, 2012 4:34 PM
nacoran
5272 posts
Feb 21, 2012
4:49 PM
Isaac, I think the EU ought to just start printing money. They could jump start their economies and a weaker Euro would help harmonica prices! (I'll stay quiet about the macro economics of Keynesian vs. austerity measures, but who can argue with cheap harmonicas!)

There is something to be said about replacement reedplates, especially if you are going to be buying custom combs anyway.

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Nate
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