HawkeyeKane
530 posts
Dec 07, 2011
7:34 AM
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For all of you out there who are disappointed, steamed, disenchanted, or still holding out hope on the B-Radicals you paid for however long ago, I may soon get some updated news on what's gonna be done about it and when.
As I've said in the past, I'm a credit union teller by day. Next door to my office is the legislation office for the Illinois Credit Union League. My buddy who works there works in close coordination with Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan.
I've told him the blight that many harmonica players are suffering with the B-Rad brouhaha, and he's going to be meeting with her on Friday, SPECIFICALLY to talk to her about this.
The case was handed over to her office a few months ago, as I'm sure you've all read. If anyone will know, it'll be her. Hopefully, she'll let him in on what's being done, who's taking over the production, who's handling getting the money back to the customers, etc.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2011 2:42 PM
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nacoran
5021 posts
Dec 07, 2011
10:06 AM
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I feel like I'm in a parking garage to pick up a suitcase from someone standing in the shadow. Will the mystery finally be resolved? Will Chester ever get his memory back? I think I'm confusing my allusions.
Wait, wasn't that a Guns & Roses album?
Keep us updated Deepthroat. :)
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Nate
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HawkeyeKane
532 posts
Dec 07, 2011
10:14 AM
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Believe it or not, I'll actually take the Deepthroat bit as a compliment Nate. :-) Gotta hand it to that guy for keeping anonymous until he was dead.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LSB
110 posts
Dec 07, 2011
11:56 AM
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And yet in another thread you say "name and shame". Seems a bit incongruent.
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MrVerylongusername
2100 posts
Dec 07, 2011
12:13 PM
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I said name and shame if the customiser shows no interest in rectifying a problem. As a community we all gain from knowing who is out to rip us off.
As I said in that thread everyone should have the right to defend their business interests as long as they show integrity and put the customer's interest at heart. There are always two sides to the story.
Brad Harrison's story is out in the public domain. I don't think we do anyone any favours dragging his name further through the mud without any real news.
Whatever Brad did, however you view his failings as an entrepreneur or his business model or his actions when his dreams turned to shit, he did not set out to deliberately con people.
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nacoran
5023 posts
Dec 07, 2011
8:23 PM
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MrVLUN, I agree, but since some company is supposed to be taking over what they were doing and people out there don't even know which company that is, a thread like this is fair game, at least as long as it sticks to the facts.
Hawkeye, I have all the respect in the world for a man who helped bring down a crook, (I'd feel the same way if Nixon had been a Democrat.) I am just glad you didn't take it as a porn reference. :)
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Nate
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HawkeyeKane
537 posts
Dec 08, 2011
7:13 AM
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You know Nate, I've often thought about this....
What if Linda Lovelace had turned out to be the real Deepthroat? If it had been so and Nixon had found out, he prolly woulda taken his aggressions out on poor Checkers because he got busted by a pornstar. :-)
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Hawkeye Kane
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clyde
176 posts
Dec 08, 2011
8:12 AM
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"what's going to be done about it and when"
hawdeye i believe i already know the answer to both .... nothing and never....
i for one don't see anything that can be done.
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HawkeyeKane
538 posts
Dec 08, 2011
8:27 AM
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I'm an impartial party to this whole thing clyde. But I know there are a great number of people who are still in the dark and trying to ascertain what's gonna become of their investments. Madigan is a woman with a track record showing that she tends to get things done when they're presented to her. So since I have this resource available to me, I'm just doing what I can to help folks out.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2011 8:29 AM
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clyde
177 posts
Dec 08, 2011
8:49 AM
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i understand what you are doing and i think that's fine. i just don't think anything is going to happen. i hope folks get their money back or get harps. i don't hold out much hope of that.
i also don't share your views on lisa madigan...but i'll keep those reasons to myself
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lumpy wafflesquirt
482 posts
Dec 08, 2011
12:55 PM
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Oh, a Brad thread
I'll give it 2 days before this one gets locked
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"Come on Brackett let's get changed"
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HawkeyeKane
540 posts
Dec 08, 2011
2:46 PM
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@bharper
I should clarify. HE is going to the meeting between reps from his office and hers. He wasn't required to go to this one, but he is going as a favor to see if he can find anything out.
As to if and why she'd disclose anything, I don't know. But he seemed pretty confident that he could get some kind of info. I'm not saying he will or won't. And if he doesn't, then I agree. It'll be the waiting game for the official release.
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Hawkeye Kane
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FreeWilly
104 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:51 AM
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Damn shame that Harrison went out of business if you ask me. Luckily I didn't have the chops or the money to justify buying one.
Now that I almost have, I was wondering where production is going to be resumed, and I found the answer to this.
It's Suzuki Harmonica's obviously.
Here's how I got to that.
Both Brendan Bailey and Jason Ricci went to Suzuki shortly after Harrison went out of business. They used to both be Harrison endorsees. Now Suzuki doesn't have a good enough harp to provide for JR's needs right? And it doesn't seem like Joe Spiers is changing to Suzuki's (although there has been some talk about it, which solved the problem for JR I thought... But now Joe Spiers has new combs for the MB's, and Christelle even ordered a MB with him (or so I conclude from her saying: a strad is coming, but I will forever love Suzuki's nevertheless)). So what harp will JR play when with Suzuki?
So Suzuki it must be. I hope the prices for the B-rad are not going to be 50% higher in Europe like the Manji's are (compared tot the States that is) .....
Or am I totally out of my mind? I though perhaps it would be fun to speculate about the B-rad's in a positive and happy way! (I really don't want to start a bashing with this comment.)
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FreeWilly
105 posts
Dec 09, 2011
8:53 AM
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Ok, I know JR didn't officially endorse it, but he is on record saying that it will be the best harmonica once it comes out, so that's pretty much the same deal :)
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The Iceman
181 posts
Dec 09, 2011
9:07 AM
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Because of JR's real life situation and the freedom of information out there, it may be that he has lost his ability to be an endorser (like Tiger Woods).
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The Iceman
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HawkeyeKane
544 posts
Dec 09, 2011
9:15 AM
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@FreeWilly
2 points on JR and one on the possible continuer of production.
First, I will agree with you about his good words about Harrison during the development period. I read something similar about him saying that it would be a phenomenal harp, along with the personal endorsements from guys like Brandon Bailey and Jay Gaunt. However, not long before Jason went on this recent hiatus/sabbatical, I spoke with him on facebook about the subject, and he seemed to have very little respect for the B-Rad at that point. I didn't get his reasoning for it, but that's what he told me.
Second, JR also told me that same day that his harp of choice was Spiers and his favorite OOTB harmonica is the Manji, so there's your answer on that.
Lastly, in the beginning I also thought it was either Suzuki or Tombo that had agreed to continue production for the back orders. Mainly because an article written about Harrison when he first started up his factory said that a Japanese company had offered him X-amount of dollars for the patent on the design, and at the time he turned them down. But later on, word got out that it was an undisclosed American company that is supposedly going to pick up the slack since he closed. Personally, I hope that's true so that if production is completed, ALL B-Rads will have been made in the US of A.
Nothing is certain obviously. But as I said, if anyone is still interested in any new developments about it, keep your fingers crossed and MAYBE I'll have some news sometime next week.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2011 9:29 AM
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FreeWilly
106 posts
Dec 09, 2011
9:45 AM
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Hey HK, that's some cool info. Ok, american company, that kinda marks my guessing as.. well, wrong.
Indeed funny that JR stopped liking the Harissons. That's perhaps not as good a topic to speculate about, since it involves persons.
Ok, cool, JR likes Manji's OOTB, but what is he planning on playing? Spiers customs with Manji-covers with the vents taken out? Does Spiers do Suzuki's? Do you, mister harpwrench? :) (I don't want to talk about you as though you're not there, but I don't want to presume you read these ramblings either..) Or can you just endorse Suzuki and play Hohner-customs both at the same time?
Of course, JR's recovery is a thousand times more important than what harps he plays. But he feels our love, wherever he is, I hope. Even if we speculate about harpies.
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eharp
1602 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:26 AM
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i really dont understand why it matters if it is an american company that is going to take over production.
let's keep in mind, an american company does not necessarily mean the product will be built here.
if i was interested in the b-rad, i would be more interested in whether the company is going to have the manpower to do the testing and quality control that brad was doing. (this is why brad went under, imo.)
the way i see it- the b-rad is no more. there wont ever be any more b-rads out there. if you really want one, find it on ebay. if any company takes up brad's responsibilities, i think it will be with some of his "patents" or innovations. folks aint gonna be getting a $180 harp. they may be getting a unique, somewhat modified harp, but it aint gonna be what folks originally paid $180 for. but these people may be given the chance to get their oney back, instead.
as for the replaceable reeds that were going to be available at music stores.....NEVER! i thought that was a pipe dream from the beginning. woulda been nice, but most stores dont carry more than a couple of harps anyway. like they're gonna carry reeds? c'mon,man!
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Epworthslim
32 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:36 AM
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I watched a vid the other day in which JR said the firebreathe was a good harp and overblows out the box on dutch radio show with ben bouman. I like my manjis they play great out the box but would be better if they were a softer sound but they are supposed to be setup for rock music.
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Slim's-Custom-Harmonica-Cases-Website
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timeistight
252 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:39 AM
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I agree.
On the other hand, if it would be a Canadian company, that'd be a whole different matter.
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HawkeyeKane
545 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:48 AM
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@eharp
Main reason I would like to see it be American-made comes from an old-school love of American products. General Motors, Peavey, Craftsman, General Electric...the list goes on.
Let's face it. Harrison was the only US manufacturer of harps. I guess its a mixture of that old-school passion and patriotism on my part that makes me wanna see an American made harmonica.
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2011 11:51 AM
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HarpNinja
1977 posts
Dec 09, 2011
11:54 AM
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People are ignoring the fact that interpersonal relationships and, even more so, money are motivators for people.
There is a lot of misinformation and misconceptions in this thread....like all Harrison threads.
Bottomline, though, I have never played an OOTB harp, including the B-Rad, that compares to a top-end custom when it comes to overbends. I bet most pros would agree with that. I've played everything listed in this thread (other than a Spiers MB with SP20 covers...only regular MB covers and GMs).
Endorsement deals are a funny thing. I would be astounded if Suzuki bought the B-Rad design. FreeWilly, I am 99.999999999% you are wrong.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
VHT Special 6 Mods
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2011 11:55 AM
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HawkeyeKane
549 posts
Dec 09, 2011
1:33 PM
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@MJ
Which only strengthens my point. Harrisons were ENTIRELY American made. One of the few things still stamped "Made in USA", and I think that's one reason why Brad Harrison never wanted to sell his design or manufacturing secrets to Japan.
It kinda goes back to the brouhaha that Gibson had to deal with not long ago. "Send your labor overseas, and your problems will disappear." This from the DoJ, which is supposed to be in place to help preserve the well-being of America. And yet, they're telling Gibson to do something that's only gonna hurt the American economy and job-market a little more in these trying times.
But I'm getting political...and I shouldn't be.
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Hawkeye Kane
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eharp
1605 posts
Dec 09, 2011
1:46 PM
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hawk- what american doesnt want to see products made in america? my point was, as mj states, not much is made in america anymore. jobs made apple overseas, many of the big three cars, or their components, are made elsewhere....
there is no doubt in my mind that the new b-rads will not be made here. labor is cheaper across our borders and there aint too many company presidents, or stockholders, that wanna trade profits over being proud they did what was right for this country.
so even if it is an american company that stands in for brad, it probably wont be made here.
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rharley5652
604 posts
Dec 09, 2011
1:58 PM
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Walk through any USA auto plant an you'll see nothing but China & Japan parts box,..most parts in any of the big three come from over seas !
Brad Harrison found out the hard way ,.ya can't compete with the big boys ><
Just like Tucker car company ,.the big boys will stop ya ,run ya outta business one way or another !
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Simply Unique Kustom Mic's By Rharley
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The Iceman
182 posts
Dec 10, 2011
2:12 PM
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FWIW, my B-rad in "C" is everything that it was claimed to be. Plays like butter, OB/OD easy, including hole 10 OD, great response and tone.
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The Iceman
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rbeetsme
507 posts
Dec 10, 2011
2:53 PM
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In hindsight, I think Brad went into production too soon. He had no manufacturing experience, miscalculated the cost and delivery time. Too bad. I would have done the same thing, excited to get going, tremendous response to pre-orders.
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LSB
111 posts
Dec 10, 2011
3:11 PM
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Yeah, he could have been successful but he made just about ALL of the rookie business owner mistakes. Too bad really, because he did get a lot of things right with the design of the actual harp, IMO.
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timeistight
256 posts
Dec 10, 2011
3:20 PM
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On the other hand, if he had started production on a smaller scale before gearing up the PR and generating all those pre-orders, he might have been able to adjust his prices before he got himself in such a deep hole.
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LSB
112 posts
Dec 10, 2011
3:52 PM
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Oh yeah, I totally agree, that's one of the main things that sunk him. Should have started small scale, in his garage or a VERY low cost space, worked out the kinks with suppliers and production, and delivered a bunch of harps on time before going all PR and overhead crazy.
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LSB
113 posts
Dec 10, 2011
6:48 PM
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BTW, did HH ever actually produce any of the G or D harps? I have only ever seen or heard about the C, Bb, and A's in the wild.
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HawkeyeKane
550 posts
Dec 11, 2011
8:26 AM
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@rbeets
Very true. I understand that he wanted this thing to be ALL his own, but I'm willing to bet you anything that if he'd had another investing partner in on it, one who'd have provided extra cash for production, and one that'd had previous manufacturing business experience, Harrison would still be going today. Don't know how strongly, but he'd still be in business. He did make a number of beginner's mistakes, mainly with the excessive PR and the big facilities he tried to make use of. Hell, I saw on CBS Sunday Morning that his Rockford office actually had an old bank vault to help him keep his manufacturing secrets safe.
@LSB
I'll try asking Gaunt about the keys. He was Harrison's heavy hitting endorser. Maybe he knows.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LSB
116 posts
Dec 11, 2011
5:51 PM
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Thanks HK, both for checking into the keys and for attempting to get some info regarding the HH/B-Rad affair.
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LSB
119 posts
Dec 29, 2011
10:03 AM
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HK, what ever happened? Any info to share?
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HawkeyeKane
583 posts
Dec 29, 2011
12:31 PM
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No word from Gaunt. My other contact is out of town til after the first of the year. He did not tell me he was going, so I'm a bit miffed. But as soon as he gets back, I'll beat it outta him. ;-)
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Hawkeye Kane
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shbamac
180 posts
Dec 29, 2011
2:13 PM
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I got a D so he did produce at least one.
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MrVerylongusername
2135 posts
Dec 29, 2011
2:29 PM
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I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for answers from anyone connected to the company. It's pretty apparent that non disclosure agreements have been signed across the board.
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HawkeyeKane
584 posts
Dec 29, 2011
3:20 PM
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@MVLUN
I would agree, except that I've written Gaunt about other things in the past and he's never written back. I did say in my message that if he was prevented from talking about it for legal reasons, just to say so and I'd understand. Still nothing. I don't have any contact info for Brandon Bailey or I'd try him.
@Cristal
I'm Irish, not Italian. When we get a refusal, course of action usually consists of a shillelagh to the noggin. ;-)
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Hawkeye Kane
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2011 6:43 AM
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LSB
122 posts
Jan 10, 2012
9:41 AM
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@ HK, thanks for the update, time for the shillelagh (I'm part Irish)
@shbamac, thank you for the confirmation on the D, mind if I ask how it plays? Sounds like they had planned to make it a long slot D so I'm curious.
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shbamac
182 posts
Jan 10, 2012
4:44 PM
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It plays well enough but not like one would expect from how they promoted it. It's not louder than a SP20, but is a bit brighter. And to me doesn't play as well as a SP20. OB and OD are not there either. It feels good in the mouth but not in my hands. Don't care for the shape of it. I can get a better cup on any harp. Every custom harp I've played is much better than my B-rad.
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clyde
213 posts
Jan 12, 2012
7:16 AM
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just heard this morning that lisa madigans office had over 6000 complaints to investigate in 2011.
how's your investigation going hawkeye?
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HawkeyeKane
619 posts
Jan 12, 2012
8:34 AM
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I got an email from my contact today. He said his liaison is gathering info at present. Since it's such a massive number of individual complaints, it's taking time to determine what the general status is. AND...I found out why he was so confident that he could get info on this. HIS contact at Madigan's office owes him several favors in return for Bears and Illini football season tickets. Hey...tickets talk, just like money.
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Hawkeye Kane
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GEEZER1
134 posts
Jan 12, 2012
8:50 AM
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Is there any group easier to fool with bull sh** than Harmonica players? Please advise.
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clyde
215 posts
Jan 12, 2012
9:04 AM
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hawk, you are right about that
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LSB
123 posts
Jan 12, 2012
1:10 PM
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Shbamac, thanks for your thoughts on the D B-Rad.
HK, "Gathering info" is usually short for "This office has decided not to pursue that in any serious way". Not saying that's your contact's opinion, just most likely the AG's decision, or whoever is calling the shots on the case. I mean Harrison himself has no significant assets I would imagine, so there's nothing to recover for those of us who got shafted. Doesn't make much sense for the AG's office to spend taxpayer time and money on it unless someone there see's enough political spin they could apply to help with voters in the next election.
Ah well, 3 of Joe Spiers Stage 2 harps just arrived today, so I'm not going to lose any more sleep over not having the B-Rads or the money Harrison Harmonicas stole from me.
Last Edited by on Jan 12, 2012 1:26 PM
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HawkeyeKane
620 posts
Jan 12, 2012
1:52 PM
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@LSB
I really have no idea what the contact at the AG's office might be able to procure if anything. It could be a wild goose chase in the end. But I would tend to think if the answer was a simple "Nope. The guy's broke. Nothing we can do about it. Sorry folks", that answer would've come back through my friend before now. What I get back could simply be things we've already heard, I don't know. For my part, it's just my attempt at a last ditch effort for any info that may or may not help anyone who got hosed on this.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LSB
124 posts
Jan 12, 2012
2:40 PM
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"For my part, it's just my attempt at a last ditch effort for any info that may or may not help anyone who got hosed on this."
Understood, and much appreciated to be sure HK.
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HawkeyeKane
640 posts
Jan 18, 2012
8:00 AM
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I managed to get ahold of Brandon off-forum. Until recently, I didn't know that he was a member of MBH, though I prolly shoulda guessed it considering he's been a protégé of Adam's tutelage. Here's what he had to share:
"Harrison never actually told me specifically how many particular keys were sent out. The last that I heard however, all of the back orders were indeed being fulfilled by another company under Harrison's supervision. I am currently no longer a Harrison endorser, and have no legal bounds against telling you this information.
All in all, I do not know very much about the current status of the back orders or how many have been fulfilled.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.
- Brandon Oneal Bailey"
So there's a former endorser's confirmation that another company was indeed mopping up the backorders, and that no non-disclosure agreements were established with the endorsers.
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Hawkeye Kane
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LSB
127 posts
Jan 18, 2012
4:31 PM
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HK, Thanks for that.
HK wrote: "So there's a former endorser's confirmation that another company was indeed mopping up the backorders".....
OK, so what Brandon said was " The last that I heard however, all of the back orders were indeed being fulfilled by another company under Harrison's supervision."
Meaning, what Brandon has been TOLD is that backorders have been being fulfilled. Brad has told many people things that simply were not true. Other people have said they heard this and that. One or two have said that the back orders were being worked on, but hadn't yet shipped. So far I have yet to hear of a single person who has even heard from the new company (if there is one) regarding their back ordered harps, let alone gotten one of these harps. I have deposits paid for B-Rads, so I should have heard something, but nothing to date.
My point being only that Brandon I am sure gave you the best info he had, which again is appreciated, however unless I mistake what he said, he is just passing on what he has been told (by who?) rather than something he knows to be fact. (Open and happy to be corrected here Brandon should you see this and care to do so)
Until people who have paid for harps begin to report hearing from the new company and/or report actually receiving back ordered B-Rads, I think it's only fair to conclude that backorders are NOT being filled. I, as much as anyone, would be delighted to hear otherwise from people who have been waiting, but it just isn't happening.
I suspect I have an idea what is actually going on, but in an effort to keep this thread from deteriorating and/or getting locked, I will honor the moderators request to avoid speculating and I will keep my thoughts on the matter to myself. Hopefully some new information will come to light, eventually.
Thanks again HK for your time and efforts to get additional information on the subject for those of us left hanging. Much obliged.
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HawkeyeKane
646 posts
Jan 18, 2012
4:46 PM
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Oh wow....
I can't believe I worded that the way I did! NOT what I intended. I meant confirmation only on the lack of nondisclosure agreement. Not both. Shoulda said that he had seconded the rumor. My bad, and my apologies. Wrote the post at work today rather hurriedly. By no means was I trying to put words in Brandon's mouth.
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Hawkeye Kane
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