In the whole of the interwebs, there is not one harmonicaplayer reviewing the MB 75 bij TBone. It is supposed to be (as I can work out from drummers/guitarists) a SM75 for only 30 Euro's (that's a third of the price of a Shure). Here's a thomann link: http://www.thomann.de/nl/the_tbone_mb75.htm?sid=8dda74a07dd81e2dc89bcf7d6f7ea83f
As I am not s(h)ure whether I want to play a bullit or a vocal mic (I'm gearing up to getting my first gear - and isn't it a joy!), I was thinking of getting a Vox DA-5 with both this mic (+impedence converter - the impedence on this thing is 600 Ohm btw, which seems strange to me: can anyone explane that? Do you even need a impedenceconverter with 600 Ohm? Wouldn't that be neat to pug directly in a PA btw?) and the Electrolux D112/C to see what I like best. Thought I could always use it as a vocal mic (Da-5 has 2 mic-ins) if it 'draws' as being a harp-mic.
I would really appreciate some input on this matter. Am I just burning money? Or did I point to a cheap alternative that will get all bullit-huggers to give the other way a cheap try? Hope so!
Cheers! PS: I'm a very poor student, hence the relentless search for cheap alternatives!
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2011 3:50 AM
My search for my ultimate mic has cost far more than it would have if I'd just bought the best to start with; (a high impedance bullet with sure controlled magnetic and/or a shure sm 57). As is often the case you end up eventually spending more when you try to find cheap alternatives.
That said though, I bought a cheap chinese copy of a sm 57 element in Thailand for about five bucks, put it in a wooden shell (salt shaker made from coconut wood also cheap in Thailand) and really, you'd be hard pressed to notice much difference between it and my SM57.
As to the 600 ohm impedance, that makes it medium impedance; I have found 500 to 600 ohms works well with my amp, and wouldn't be surprised if it was OK through a PA, though I haven't tried it.
I have also found that several mics that disappointed early on in my search now sound fine that my cupping and general technique have improved. Its fun to play with gear, but not necessary to obsess over it. Have fun! ---------- Lucky Lester
If by chance you're leaning toward a stick mic as opposed to a bullet, I do have another alternative to an SM57 or 545 Unidyne. On ebay, you can usually find an Akai DM13 or two ranging in price from 10 to 50 bucks on average. Basically, they were made to be tape recorder/CB radio mics in the 70's and 80's. I was recommended them by a friend on facebook, and I had my doubts about it when I managed to get one for 15 bucks. But it really is a gem for harp! Good distorted ballsy tone. They're very gainy, so watch the feedback. But they really do sound good. I'm at work, so I can't get to youtube. But go and search Akai DM13 on there. You'll find some review footage and see what I mean. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
Thanks for the imput so far. @HawkeyeKane: I found a review of that Akai on Youtube. Sounded nice, but isn't an alternative for a sm57 to me, because it sounds very distorted. I would like to get both mics to try both shape and sound. I Will watch ebay for it though - perhaps I can pick one up cheap and experiment a bit. Fine looking thing.
I found a chart somewhere stating that the Tbone has more treble and less bass than a SM 57. Would really LOVE to hear some experiences with those rip-offs.
didjcripey made me think that perhaps I should just buy the SM 57 for now, and not both. If I ever will be wanting a stick, this is the one right? Perhaps it will save money in the long run.
Ah. I gotcha. Yeah, if you're looking for clean tone, a 57 or 545 would be best. Greg can ultimatize or bulletize one for you too. Volume controls are a godsend on those. As for the Akai, one other perk I forgot to mention...it weighs less than half of what an SM57 weighs. Like playing on a feather. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
If you want to buy something specifically because it is cheap, then knock yourself out...it might sound great, it might not, but either way, you will have got what you set out to get - something that is cheap.
When considering musical instruments (when you go amplified the mic & amp are now part of your instrument) it is more typical to aim for something that sounds good, either by auditioning it yourself, or by trusting the testimony of those with experience.
So if you asked, "What is a good, versatile mic?" People might say, "try the SM57". They're not expensive, if you don't want a new one you could try "kissing a few frogs" on e-bay (maybe some older, less well known PA mics might work well too, e.g. I have a couple of AKGs that are pretty cool sounding - D190 & D19). The knock off SM57's I have heard at a pal's studio were awful...no use to man nor beast...hence there is probably a good reason why there is little testimony in their favour.
An SM57 with an IMT will be distorted into an amp if you play it that way...I have hi-z bullets that are cleaner than my lo-z PA mics with IMTs. It's hard to judge from a YT clip, you need to try it yourself.
If you are looking for clean sounds, then you want as big an amp as you can afford, unless it is just for apartment practic.
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2011 12:39 PM
If it turns out I am a stick player and I have some paying gigs that halfway justify it, I would definitely order an ultimized mic. Have been looking at those mouth-watering for some time :) And they bring the Sm57 closer to the Akai weight-wise don't they?
One thought about these Ultimized versions though: I really like to hold a mic with two hands while not playing. It's nice to put your hands somewhere when being silent. I'm 2 meters tall and sometimes really don't know where to keep my hands when people are looking :)
Some much for dream-equipment: For now I would like to find out how to try that sound as cheap as possible though :D
Possibly. I've never played one of Greg's 57s so I dont know the weight, but I've played one that had a jacked in volume control on the butt end. The Akai presents a little bit of a problem when trying to fit it with a volume control. The connection is built in, and it can get dicey trying to fit the volume pot in the narrow end of it if you don't know what you're doing. I'm still trying to figure out if I actually want one on mine, and if so, which route to go with it. ---------- Hawkeye Kane
You point out that my last post is a contradiction: I cannot get the Sm57 sound cheaply, because it's not a cheap sound (if that summarizes it correctly). That makes sense to me.
I wasn't planning on going to ebay for the Sm because I want a good one so I can really give it a fair chance. And I would like to have it distort. I am not particularly looking for a clean sound. I thought that sticks were an acceptable way to get a distorted sound - a different one from a bullit-distortion. Is that incorrect?
Perhaps I should try a good bullit and a good stick. But that isn't possible budgetwise. That's how I came up with my ripp off/Superlux 112 scheme. I'm now starting to lean towards an Sm 57, because that is the cheapest good solution. And then if I have money, I'll try a good bullit also?
@ Freewilly: I'm a poor student too, and i've been down the same path as you. I made quite a few mistakes trying to get that unknown "cheaper" alternative to the expensive gear, and I've learned my lessons. It's not impossible, but just that there are a lot of wrong ways to go. I can try to help you navigate the mine field a bit, however.
Although I have not tried it myself (still waiting for someone to get it for me for christmas or something!) I've heard really good things about the Behringer XM8500 mic as an SM57 replacement. Beatboxers swear by it, and our own J-Sin uses it in his peformances and recordings (and vouches for it). Not sure what it costs in Europe, but in the States it goes for around $25.
I don't own one, but have also heard really good things about the DA-5. It's on my list of little amps to try/buy. IMO, an XM8500 and a DA-5 will be a really great start rig.
My inexpensive rig is a Epi Valve Jr. that I modified according to the Lone Wolf instructions, and a couple of mics I made myself (I've got a detailed instructable documenting how to do and several YouTube vids as well). That's my winning combo, and b/c I bought everything used or made it myself, I probably only dropped about $100 on it (or maybe even less). It sounds great, and it's very versitile. I've increased it's versitilty even more by adding a Digitech RP155 mulitfx unit in front of it. This added another $85 to the total cost, but gave me every effect I could ever want, a looper, a digital audio interface for my computer (USB), and tons of amp models to change the flavor of my overdriven sound. I'm very satisfied with this rig. Of course, your DA-5 will give you a lot of the DSP FX stuff, so you may have found an even cheaper good solution!
I just checked out that Behringer. It's only 18 euro's at Thomann, including clamp. So that would be cheap. Check out this chart though: http://www.behringer.com/assets/XM8500%20(OEM)_P0120_S_EN.pdf Seems to have a lot of high frequencies. The table looks exactly like the one I saw on that Tbone. The SM 57 apparently has - relatively speaking - more mid and low response to white noise..
But for that price.. And you get a clamp. Man. Anyone have any experience with this mic?
Another cheap knockoff getting good reviews is the GLS Audio ES-57 (they also make an ES-58 which, you guessed it, is their version of a Shure SM58). I haven't tried these -- YMMV.
I sent a mexican 545 to greg neuman to be ultimized. it is now a fabulous controllable monster when i play ( I am only intermediate, no ball of fire ) the people I play with are gobsmacked by the tone it produces do yourself a favour talk to greg
I can't access ebay at work either. But I believe you. If it was made that way stock, then it'd be the first one I've seen done so. But like I said, putting a volume knob in is doable, just better be sure you know what youre doing, and when it comes to me...heh...I like to sned my stuff to a rodder. lol ---------- Hawkeye Kane
I was in your shoes not long ago, I'm not a student but I have a familly to take care of. I knew the sound I wanted, I like the dirty amp sound. I didn't know if I wanted to play a stick or a bullet, here's what I did. I found a glass the size of a bullet and a tube the size of a stick and played the glass and the tube to see what I liked best. Second the amp I wasn't going to use it for a band and I'm not ready for jams, I live in an appartment. I finaly bought a little Danelectro Honeytone and a SUKM Rharley silver bullet. For less than 200$ I have a really good custom mic, a nice little amp and I'm having lots of fun. ---------- Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov
J-Sin can confirm this, but I believe he is using an XM8500 in the following video:
A quick archive search brought me to this thread where he first told me about that mic: http://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/board/board_topic/5560960/766946.htm
btw, reviews I read of the XM8500 indicate that it has slightly more output than SM57, and actually has slightly better bottom end than the 57. These are the reasons Beatboxers LOVE this mic. Yes, it will have more highs than a bullet (CR/CM), but ANY dynamic stick mic will have more highs (including SM57/58). That is what sets the two types of mics apart... ---------- == I S A A C ==
Hey Blues 13, you sure didn't compromise on a mic! And you can practice with headphones. Cool!
Isaac: I was wrong yesterday about that bottom end. I had another look and the Behringer comes up earlier than the SM57. The Shure has a dip in the middle and less high-end, which makes it more balanced overall. The big question is though: will the Behringer break up as nicely as the Shure? In internetfora, people contradict one another about it's 'proximity effect'- witch is what we want isn't it? I saw the video you embedded yesterday, but couldn't really notice a cupping-break. I did hear the nice pooof on the beatboxing (not my thing to be honest, but sounded good for what it is).
I am more interested in the Behringer right now than in SM ripp-offs. The Behringer would at least be really cheap and could be a voice-mic once I get the real deal, isn't it?
Btw. Angelfire said something about unscrewing the ball on an SM58. Is that a good idea? It would improve the proximity effect perhaps?
Yeah, I'm not sure if the XM8500 will have as much of a proximity effect as SM57. I do, however, have a feeling that it will be a bit cleaner, as that's what beatboxers like. I think it WILL break up, though. The question is "How much?". Taking the ball off will let you get closer to the element, and will let you more efficiently seal your cup (less leaks), thus allowing for a greater break up. Some folks also "dent" in the top of the ball mic for a similar effect (get closer to the element), but ball mics are notoriously hard to get really good seals on, because there is air coming in through the whole mesh area of the ball. That is one reason why harp players prefer the SM57 over the SM58, even though the 57 is more akward to get your hands around because there is no "rim" to cup. That's also why Greg's "Bulletizers" and "Ultimized" mics are so cool for 57 users.
And yes, the XM5800 will make a very good vocal mic later on if you find you don't like it for harp.
