ReedSqueal
157 posts
Jun 26, 2011
11:05 PM
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Not to -intentionally- stir up any shit... BUT...
Saw this on Harrison Harmonicas Facebook post.
Harrison putting up B-Rads on ebay from canceled orders. (Custom engraved is the caveat, at least for this one particular ebay post)
A direct quote from their facebook post: "Our first of a few cancelled [sic] orders that were already built and engraved are being sold on Ebay."
Really? REALLY? {{Shrug}}
...are you thinking the same thing I am thinking? i.e. should the people who have outstanding *paid* orders have right of first refusal BEFORE HH puts them on FleaBay?
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
Last Edited by on Jun 26, 2011 11:07 PM
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LIP RIPPER
453 posts
Jun 27, 2011
4:24 AM
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"What a bunch of shit" to qoute my wife!
http://cgi.ebay.com/B-RADICAL-HARMONICA-KEY-Bb-NEW-/150624902018?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2311f19b82
Is this the guy complaining about HH not refunding his money? Double dippin?
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 4:27 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1708 posts
Jun 27, 2011
4:29 AM
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Jeez - why not just put a new bottom coverplate on (surely one of the cheaper components) and send it out to someone who is waiting?
Shambolic
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 4:30 AM
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jbone
554 posts
Jun 27, 2011
4:49 AM
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that's a good question- and my wife would have the same comment. in fact she's mentioned a refund and cancel at least once but i'm going to wait this out. once in my life, a total quality item. it's been a bit over a year wait so far. last i heard i was going to get mine this month. 3 1/2 days left...
i'm still very taken with the concept and the dedication to an idea mr. harrison has. i just wish he could find a better way to accommodate the massive orders for the b rad without sacrificing quality.
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timeistight
79 posts
Jun 27, 2011
9:20 AM
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I'd like to hear the story behind this. Is Mike Newell a member here?
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MrVerylongusername
1711 posts
Jun 27, 2011
9:33 AM
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It does seem a little vindictive/unethical releasing the name of an unhappy customer in this way. I too can't help feeling there's a bit more to this story.
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toddlgreene
3070 posts
Jun 27, 2011
9:33 AM
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For 200 bucks, YOU can be Mike Newell!
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Todd L. Greene
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Swezey8
89 posts
Jun 27, 2011
9:47 AM
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I always stay away from the Harrison Harmonica/B-Rad posts and rants as they always seem to run the same course. HOWEVER, I am stunned at this. Like mentioned earlier- they couldn't put a bottom coverplate on and ship this out to the next person on the (epically long) waiting list?
And is the ebay post supposed to be humorous- "You can always say you named your harmonica Mike Newell!"
Haha- bet the people waiting on a Bb B-rad are laughing at the wit.
I've always been pretty neutral on this whole topic (probably because I didn't shell out any money for one and do admire the whole idea at its core) but this puts a bad taste in my mouth. Hope HH get their act together, but sure doesn't seem like a well run company at this point.
@todd- what a bargain lol...I wanna be like Mike!
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nacoran
4250 posts
Jun 27, 2011
10:03 AM
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Yeah, the best spin I can put on this is tone deaf customer service, and that's being awfully generous. It looks more like he's taunting Mike Newell saying, see, you waited and waited and waited and if you had only waited some more you'd have a harmonica now.
I know they said that their hold up for a while was coverplates, maybe they actually have enough harps completed so that they can keep new orders moving out as quickly as they get the plates. Still, it's not a good PR move.
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Nate
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toxic_tone
208 posts
Jun 27, 2011
10:18 AM
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well thats the last straw for me. ive never paid or bought one but after alllll the talk on HH i will never ever ever buy or even care to hold one in my hand. i get crazy just waiting for a sp 20 to get here let alone 1 YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS FING INSANE!!! IF HE COULDNT RUN A BUISNESS THEN HE SHOULD OF NEVER STARTED IT TO BEGIN WITH. AND IF SOMEONE WANTS A REFUND THEY SHOULD GET IT WITHIN 1 WEEK. SOUNDS LIKE TO ME THEY ARE USING THE MONEY TO MAKE THE BUISNESS BETTER. THEY ARE USING THE MONEY AS CAPTIOL. WHICH THEY SHOULD OF HAD TO BEGIN WITH. WOW. I FEEL SO BAD FOR YOU WHO HAVE BEEN WAITING SO LONG..
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OzarkRich
457 posts
Jun 27, 2011
11:52 AM
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@jbone: "it's been a bit over a year wait so far. last i heard i was going to get mine this month. 3 1/2 days left..."
I placed my order 18 months ago so if yours is coming this month then I should have received mine 6 months ago. Still waiting...:)
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Ozark Rich
__________
##########
Ozark Rich's YouTube
Ozark Rich's Facebook
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KingoBad
781 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:06 PM
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Dear lord, someone shoot this thread like Old Yeller, please.
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Danny
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ReedSqueal
158 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:26 PM
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@KingoBad well, at least this thread had a different twist to the usual bitch-and-moan HH discussions.
But, yeah I figured this would end up getting locked... like the rest.
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Go ahead and play the blues if it'll make you happy.
-Dan Castellaneta
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LIP RIPPER
454 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:37 PM
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Hey Kingo, I here ya man. But, the story needs to be told and is. I was thinking this morning that HH may soon be added to the banned topic list. Question number one. If the harp was complete and ready to ship why did it not get shipped? Question two. Will the real Mike Newell please stand up? Is he fictitous? I'm wondering. Question three. Are the people waiting on their Bb's gonna get a posse together and head for Chi-town? What a buncha effin BS!
LR
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MP
1736 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:43 PM
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well, i tried a B-rad in C but it didn't have anyones name on it. i compared it to a pre-war i had tweaked and it aquitted itself well.
but, i saw on the for sale pagee that chro and wrench had MBDs in C for sale for less money than B-rads. i'm sure they are better harps and don't say michael on them. i'm sure there is no wait. i'm sure their customer service is great.
as groyster says, 'i don't understand'.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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Honkin On Bobo
664 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:47 PM
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B-Rad Blues:
"I feel thread lock a comin'
it's comin' round the bend
Ain't seen no B-Rad harps in I,
I don't know when
Well I......."
I'll leave it to you lyricists to finish..
(with apologies to the late great Johnny Cash)
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MrVerylongusername
1714 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:52 PM
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The last thread only got locked because it turned personal. 2 moderators have contributed to the thread and no warnings have been made. If you're bored of the topic, feel free to let it pass by.
</metadiscussion>
Isn't the starting bid of $200 well over the retail? that's cynical in itself.
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 12:55 PM
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toddlgreene
3073 posts
Jun 27, 2011
12:59 PM
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I was trying to find an adequate image file of a 'crash and burn' but felt the metaphor would be lost in translation.
Nothing to lock here, yet.
If this fleabay listing was from anyone other than the builder, it would be a non-event, but from the very same party who has countless folks awaiting their harps to sell one that could simply have the cover plates changed and fulfill another order?
Something's rotten in Denmark.
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Todd L. Greene
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jonlaing
269 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:00 PM
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@MVLUN haha, I wish I could put closing XML tags in life like that: </girlfriendcomplaints> or </moneyproblems>
But back on topic, yeah that's pretty shitty. I figure the conversation went down like this:
"Oh, this guy cancelled his order, but we already engraved the coverplates"
"Eh, put it on eBay."
"But won't that piss people off?"
"They're already pissed off..."
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 1:01 PM
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MP
1739 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:01 PM
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a b-rad w/ michael on it is $20 extra. everybody knows that.
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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KingBiscuit
61 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:13 PM
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I have not ordered a B Rad and after seeing this, I never will. I agree, WTF?
A friend of mine has been waiting for 1.5 years for a D harp that his wife bought him for his birthday. Harrison keeps putting him off with bullshit about the D harps are still under development. The other day a guy posts that he just got his D harp from Harrison and my buddy is still waiting. Now this. If they were really interested in customer service, they would, as someone already said, put a different cover plate on those and send them to a prepaid customer, not put them on EBAY.
No matter how you look at it, this is bullshit...plain and simple.
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Honkin On Bobo
665 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:28 PM
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"If you're bored of the topic, feel free to let it pass by."
Bored???
I'm downright fascinated!!!!
By: (A) the fact that, the business plan was apparently so poorly contructed that they have customers waiting over a year, some over two years for an item they're selling for less than $500, and from whom they've accepted payment; and that (B) said customers have not organized and formed a mass revolt, can anyone say class action? (particularly in light of the fact that many of said customers communicate with and among each other via this and other forums).
Bored of this topic is the last thing I am.
Oh and by the way the last thread was sailing along just like this one went it went bad (in a hurry), and mods posted on that one too.
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MrVerylongusername
1715 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:32 PM
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It's OK honkin' - My post followed yours, but wasn't aimed at you
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KingoBad
782 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:55 PM
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I do agree its a load of crap that there isn't a cover plate swap. Perhaps they have run out of that style of cover, I seem to have heard that they are now flat black?
My groan was not for a moderator to end this. I don't mind things going on for a while... It is the topic of the discussion. We now have folks who have no dog in this fight bitching about it.
This is a business deal. Do your business and be done with it. If you can't stand the wait - cancel your order. I'd personally be on the phone with Brad every week if I really wanted it sooner.
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Danny
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Mojokane
415 posts
Jun 27, 2011
1:57 PM
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kinggobad..my interest is purely as an observer, tracker, of what to expect, when I finally can afford one. I don't want to be 80 yrs old when I finally get it.
here's the obvious,,,from where I'm sittin..
Harrison Harmonica's, unfortunately...unable to sustain the powerful inertia of supply and demand, and customer service. They are losing the campaign.
And casualties are mounting.
They are poorly managed. A very important part of marketing a great product..they need to go back to the drawing board, or sell the company to someone who will do it right. And this latest debacle, will not fare well for their asking price..
Hohner B-rads?..hmmm
Atleast people will get them on time...however long THAT takes...
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 2:03 PM
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toddlgreene
3079 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:10 PM
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My emotions on this whole B-Rad soap opera are a combination of fascination and sadness. Such a great and innovative idea these harps are, only to be dragged down by delivery promises that couldn't be met. I really want to see them succeed as a company, but starting this far in the red, can they recover?
Sincerely, Mike Newell.
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Todd L. Greene
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 2:10 PM
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jim
878 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:20 PM
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@ Brad and other HH guys:
just ship OOTB harps, don't tweak them.
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MrVerylongusername
1716 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:22 PM
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Put two new style coverplates on. Simple. Surely he's got 2 coverplates lying around?
Is this an underhand way of publicly getting back at someone who cancelled a big order? cynically exploiting the desperation of people wanting to get their hands on your product. Terrible way to treat customers, turn complaints into a joke on ebay.
Unbelievably short sighted or unbelievably cynical - you decide
Frankly this is a hot topic in the harmonica community. It doesn't matter one bit whether I have done business with this company or not - I and any other harmonica player have every right to discuss it.
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kudzurunner
2556 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:26 PM
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I pity anybody who dares to try and achieve something on behalf of the seething snakepit that is the subculture of blues harmonica players.
Get it 90% right and you'll be told what you did wrong.
Get it less right than that and you'll be eviscerated.
Unless you truly don't have anything more important to do, it might be a good idea to cultivate a little less fury towards Brad Harrison. There are plenty of things in the world that merit huge outrage. The pace at which Bad Mommy--ah, I mean Brad--is failing to deliver expensive metal pacifiers isn't one of them. Melanie Klein was right.
For those who actually might be willing to listen to reason, here's some bedtime reading:
http://www.amazon.com/Q-Alternative-Outrage/dp/B000QWMERE
Here's a link for the whole audiobook:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QZSQNC/ref=dm_sp_alb
Pema Chodron is a nice, scrunchy older lady, an ordained Tibetan Buddhist. She'll put a smile on your face, and not by sitting in your lap.
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 2:29 PM
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jonlaing
270 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:29 PM
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@jim At this point, I'm inclined to agree. I can gap the damn thing myself. Just tune it and send it out. It would probably make the harps a shit ton cheaper too.
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nacoran
4255 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:34 PM
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Lip Ripper, careful, let's stick to the facts at hand.
If we knew more about the number of orders and supply issues this could actually be a pretty good teaching moment for someone trying to get a business off the ground. I know when your supply falls way behind demand there are several tried and true methods to deal with it, but they all come with their own risks and rewards.
-You can spend a ton of capital to catch up, but if demand tanks before you pay off the outlays you end up destroying your business.
-You can stop taking orders. That's what Harrison has chosen. If you are paying the bills it's a safe strategy although you may lose sales opportunities.
-You can raise the price. That gets you more capital and puts a damper on new orders. Of course, it can backfire. Sometimes the high price of something actually turns it into a status symbol and increases demand.
If it was in my price range I'd still buy a Harrison if they ever actually become what they set out to become- really high end harps you can buy that ship right away. That would mean getting through their entire log of back orders and maybe even getting ahead a bit. If they get there, cool. If not, well, I hope they at least figure out how to tell people just how long a waiting list they are on, because that seems to be whats driving people nuts.
Well, that, and putting harps on eBay. I don't think it's fair to put something on eBay when you already have deposits from people. Actually, considering they claim to be a production harp I'm not sure I like the deposit thing anyway. Maybe they could have asked for a deposit when they actually got to the engraving stage, but before that I think it just amplifies how upset people get when they are sitting on a waiting list.
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Nate
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harmonicanick
1237 posts
Jun 27, 2011
2:42 PM
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Or, you can smile, and thank your luck stars you did not spend a lot of money to see Beyoncee at the Glastonbury Festival along with 180,000 other festival goers.
What a bore!!
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Jehosaphat
65 posts
Jun 27, 2011
3:34 PM
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Yeah i know they are two different animals but look at Brendans idea for a 'new' harp .Gets an idea promotes it to get a feel for demand and then manufactures it by proxy ,whammo you can buy one today!
Now he has the contacts will he get them to produce a 'super' harp?Maybe he should
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orphan
30 posts
Jun 27, 2011
3:34 PM
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@KingoBad "This is a business deal. Do your business and be done with it. If you can't stand the wait - cancel your order. I'd personally be on the phone with Brad every week if I really wanted it sooner."
I have emailed to get update on my order. Each time they have extended the delivery date. The order, by their most recent estimate is twice as long as the original date. When I called to cancel the order I was told only Brad could make the decision to refund money. I paid in full when I ordered. I am still waiting for Brad to call.
@Kudzurunner
I am not mad, but rather disappointed. Can't get a harp, can't get my money back, and can't talk to anybody at Harrison Harmonica that can resolve this. I don't want a metal pacifier. I just want to get my money and stop waiting on a company to keep their end of the deal on any of the dates they have given me.
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 3:36 PM
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KingoBad
783 posts
Jun 27, 2011
3:43 PM
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My point exacty. Email is no way to approach urgent business. It is a load of crap that only Brad can cancel your order, either hold until Brad comes on the line or call you credit card company and dispute the charges. Done.
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Danny
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pistolero
151 posts
Jun 27, 2011
3:44 PM
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"If we knew more about the number of orders and supply issues this could actually be a pretty good teaching moment for someone trying to get a business off the ground."
??? I know enough about their numbers of orders just from looking at the threads on this site to know that if they are putting harps up on ebay that's just MESSED UP, PERIOD. Any spare time those jokers have to be even thinking about putting ebay ads should be spent filling orders from paid customers, don't you think?
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It's MUSIC, not just complicated noise.
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MrVerylongusername
1717 posts
Jun 27, 2011
3:58 PM
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Lee Oskar strikes me as the shining example.
Set out your specifications, get the harmonicas built to those exact specs. Contract the manufacturing out to an established manufacturer who can meet any demand. Aim for the middle of the market and price accordingly. Understand and value your customers (Lee often deals with enquiries personally).
So far Brendan's on the right course
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timeistight
80 posts
Jun 27, 2011
4:17 PM
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"I pity anybody who dares to try and achieve something on behalf of the seething snakepit that is the subculture of blues harmonica players."
Really, Adam? Not me. I pity the people who've paid up front and waited for months and months only to see the thing they're waiting for being sold off to the highest bidder.
Last Edited by on Jun 27, 2011 4:18 PM
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nacoran
4256 posts
Jun 27, 2011
4:20 PM
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Pistol, yeah, I agree they should be focused entirely on getting caught up. I said as much in my post. I probably should have had a larger line break between my first and second paragraph. The first part was with my mod hat on and had nothing to do with the second part, which was just a bit of pondering.
I remember there used to be threads complaining about the wait time for this customizer or that customizer, but that was people getting cranky over a three month wait. Like I said, if I had the money I wouldn't buy a Harrison until they got their turn around time issues in order, but I think the interesting thing is how powerful the dream of owning one seems to be; people are still sitting on their place in line after all this time even with all the delays. I don't know what is going on inside Harrison. I don't know how much is unexpected issues with producing the harps, how much is tinkering with designs, how much is problems with suppliers or even how much is just getting overwhelmed with the volume of orders. The other relatively new harp company, Bends, didn't make it. There is part of me that's fascinated with the process of a company being born. I guess it's a little easier to be dispassionate about the whole thing without any of my money sitting out there as a deposit. I hope Brad can get things straightened out, for his sake and for the sake of everyone sitting on his lists.
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Nate
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groyster1
1163 posts
Jun 27, 2011
5:43 PM
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if you fellas are not pissed off to the max,you should be BTW rockin reads these posts and I bet hohner and suzuki does also they want to know what YOU want give the consumer what they want with customer service that cant be excelled I have not ordered a B rad but Im pulling for all of you,especially you buzadero 2.5 years holy mackerel!
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eharp
1342 posts
Jun 27, 2011
6:15 PM
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what key, buzadero?
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Mojokane
416 posts
Jun 27, 2011
6:21 PM
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wow...amazing reading all the takes on this thread. I have learned how to see this topic from several different angles. Very cool responses from all of us, for sure. The Ebay thing...hmmmm, weird...I'm glad I'm not on the waiting list. What a shakey position to be in, now.
Just find a decent well tuned harp, and learn to play it really well.
I don't recall Kim Wilson, Charlie Musselwhite, or ANY legendary players of my generation, certainly not before,...spending this kind of money, or giving a harmonica this much attention.
I could use a metal pacifier...
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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jasonL
52 posts
Jun 27, 2011
8:28 PM
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just wondering....
are we sure this is Brad and not a peeved someone posing as HHinc? (or is that just a naive and paranoid question?)
I thought the idea is that they tweak the harps to fit your style of playing so wouldn't that mean that it is more than just the plates that are customized?
It seems like a great harmonica from all standpoints and I think it would be a shame for us harp folks if this company sinks.
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Mojokane
417 posts
Jun 28, 2011
2:56 AM
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yeah...they should bail, then sell what's left of their rep to a huge outfit like Hohner..who can afford to make a standardized line of custom harps, quickly and more affordable. There are only so many ways to play...it's ultimately where it's heading, eh?
We can thank these guys for pioneering the craft to perfection. Too bad their unorthodox business ethics never caught on...
Genius doesn't always mean good business...
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Why is it that we all just can't get along?<
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Andrew
1350 posts
Jun 28, 2011
3:23 AM
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Of all the HH threads, this one is the interesting one.
In the past if I have disagreed with Adam, I have always accepted his pov. This is the first time I don't accept his pov.
It's possible that BH used to have a hobby and now he thinks he has a paying hobby. If that's the case, I think he is sadly mistaken.
I think selling to a huge outfit would destroy what's good about the concept - that big outfit would not be able to resist cutting corners and costs and quality, and they would produce an impersonal product. afaik, a personal product (as far as that's possible) is one of the things BH offers. I suppose, though, the idea is that BH could spec everything that's unique about his harps, and some kind of contract with a huge outfit would guarantee the specs' survival. Would BH be enough of a tecchie for that?
What I'd expect is that the huge outfit wouldn't bother - they'd have to invest a lot in new plant or subcontract, and if BH had half-fulfilled the initial demand, the remaining potential revenue wouldn't realise any profit.
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Andrew.
-----------------------------------------
Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2011 3:29 AM
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sammyharp
118 posts
Jun 28, 2011
5:09 AM
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to be honest, its very nice of harrison to let people cancel orders at all without having financial repercussions. When ordering any customized product, you are making a contract with a company which involves them creating parts and doing work which costs money. normally, when a company does custom engraving for you and you want to cancel the order, you would get either only a portion of your money back, or would get a no from them. i don't think those cover plates are cheap, and obviously brad wants to reduce unnesecarry cost, that's why it's on ebay and not being sent to another customer.
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6SN7
169 posts
Jun 28, 2011
5:39 AM
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Interesting thread. I have been rooting for this business, HH, all along. A USA harp company, very cool. But have they lost therir way? Do they build the world's best OOTB harp or are they tweaking them as they finish them? There is a big difference between those two. Sammyharp's post made me wondfer, if these guys are a custom house, a customizer that tweaks each harp, well, then HH is a customizer and not an OOTB compnay. That's okay, but I don't think you can do both. This would be a very interesting business case study, not because it is harmonicas, but to understand what the business strategy is and whether the owners have stayed true to that.
I am concerned that after over a year and closer to two years, this company can't produce OOTB harps w/o tweaking them.
Sadly, there are people out there that I can order a brand new harp from, fully customized with all the bells and whistle for 200$ and yes, less and get it in 6 months. That's a custom product. A HH was suppose to be order and receive.
Last Edited by on Jun 28, 2011 5:41 AM
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Andrew
1351 posts
Jun 28, 2011
6:24 AM
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Damn, I guess the high Ab I ordered is going to take another week or two.
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Andrew.
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Those who are tardy do not get fruit cup.
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harpwrench
480 posts
Jun 28, 2011
6:53 AM
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They aren't "tweaked".... unless you specified overblow playing, then they're gapped tighter at final inspection as necessary. The ones I've set up all overblow well. I spent 35 minutes each- that's including checking/correcting plate flatness, centering reeds, profiling, gapping and tuning. I haven't done them for a few months, had to back away to stay on schedule with my own harp business. Having national news coverage instantly swamped HH with orders. Many from people buying a harmonica for the first time, which was one of Brad's goals- creating a modern/cool looking harmonica that would attract new players. Brad slept on the floor of the shop, worked late and rose early for a long time. I understand being upset with him...but want to say it's not been fun and games on his end either. He's put everything on the line to try to make this happen, and doing everything he can. If I lived in Chicago I'd be right there beside him covering his back.
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harpdude61
879 posts
Jun 28, 2011
6:55 AM
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sammyharp....as best I remember discussions from posts awhile back, B-Rads are not custom harps and having an engraved nameplate does not make it so.
When I had customs made, the customizer listened to me play, asked about the direction I want to take my playing, which harps and holes do I plan to use overbends on/..etc..etc..
I don't care if they are $5k each...if they are made alike they are stock harps....I know Todd P had his B-rad customized
I resisted the temptation to order a B-rad when they first started, but I totlly understand why anyone would be upset. The thing that gets me is they don't fill orders in the order they were received.
Wanting a fair shake is NOT being whiney. I think all you "waiters" should pour it on. Maybe try snail mail or your cedit card company.
Changing promise dates over and over is terrible business as well.
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