bluemozark
53 posts
Apr 08, 2011
7:49 AM
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Opinions vary. On many topics. Maybe some of you need to get a grip on that. That's life.
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Rift
81 posts
Apr 08, 2011
7:58 AM
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so lets have it. please let us all know what you dont like about jasons harmonica playing, style, technique, etc...?
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Seven.Oh.Three.
28 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:04 AM
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the forum creed states:
"please refrain from flaming, insulting, or otherwise impugning the intelligence or good intentions of your fellow board members"
"neither is this forum a men's locker room in which casual (or intentional) ethinic or racial slurs, anti-gay rants, nationalist cant, and/or misogynist diatribes are welcome."
'nuff said......
703
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HarpNinja
1311 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:06 AM
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Unless it goes against forum creed, which we are all aware of and agree to when signing up, sharing an opinion publically if fair game for discussion.
To play devil's advocate, is that a bit of a hypocritical post? If someone's opinion doesn't agree with your opinion shouldn't one expect a little kick back? Is it only ok for some people to share some opinions when they are in agreement and not disagreement? Are some opinions not worth sharing if not in direct context with a topic? More true when the opinion has nothing to do with the focus of the thread and/or forum?
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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bluemozark
54 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:13 AM
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The point is - opinions vary. It's not up to anyone to determine or approve anyone else's reason for having a certain opinion. If you want to play PC games, whatever, but put that in your "forum creed". "Must be PC".
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1478 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:15 AM
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I dont know you BlueNark or Jason but Ive seen what B.S you wrote,and Ive seen a video of jason skateboarding,with just those 2 things,If I was to lay a bet when push come to shove,My money be on Jason and his colorful pants.
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Hobostubs
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Rift
82 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:17 AM
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You still havent said what your issue is with him. Go ahead and say it if its that important to you! Do you think he is a bad player? Do you not like him because of personal reasons?
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HarpNinja
1312 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:24 AM
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"The point is - opinions vary. It's not up to anyone to determine or approve anyone else's reason for having a certain opinion. If you want to play PC games, whatever, but put that in your "forum creed". "Must be PC"."
The forum creed is a lot more specific than "Must be PC":
"Please also note: although conversation about blues harmonica and related issues is not something that should be subject to the hectoring of the Nanny State, neither is this forum a men's locker room in which casual (or intentional) ethinic or racial slurs, anti-gay rants, nationalist cant, and/or misogynist diatribes are welcome....All of us share a love for blues harmonica, and that is what brings us here to share a space in which we can express that love."
Your post was clearly in bad taste according to the forum creed and was completely off the topic of harmonica.
Out of respect for those of us interested in keeping to the topic of harmonica or anything even marginally related comments such as yours and the need to start a new thread defending them is a waste of time for readers. I am equally guilty in posting on this thread of distracting others from topics that are actually relevant.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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bluemozark
55 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:27 AM
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Nope. It wouldn't be "PC" to state what my issues are with him. And they're not all “personal reasons“. I've never seen a forum before that was so obsessed with one particular player.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
1479 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:34 AM
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So they enjoy his work,why would that bother you?Is Little Walter next? the 1st insult was rude and out of place,but I did get a chuckle out of it,the 2nd thing you said was just wrong.
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Hobostubs
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bluemozark
56 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:34 AM
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wow, this zack guy is a psychic?
Don't make statements you don't know are true.
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HarpNinja
1314 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:42 AM
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Zack probably read the other thread where you twice made comments about his sexuality. I also don't recall you talking about him as a player but rather in regards to his sexuality.
It is one thing to say you didn't like something about his HARMONICA playing, but there was not such content, was there? I think people are worked up because you broke forum creed. Plenty of people have commented on Jason to the negative in regards to his music as it pertains to harmonica.
If you're aware of people defending the forum creed before posting that sorta makes your recent comments all the more inflamatory.
If you wanted to dis his playing you should have done that instead.
***Very mature post on the new JR thread too, btw. I think actually making an educated and informed comment rather than intentionally try to start trouble might earn you more cred and tolerance here.
I don't generally see the value in tearing people down in threads...for example saying I didn't like his tone or it was to notey, etc, but had you made a comment like that, I am fairly certain there wouldn't have been the outcry.
Saying "blah, blah" instead of I didn't like the arrangement or some other critical statement that actually stated an opinion on the music would have netted more pause for the cause.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 8:46 AM
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ZackPomerleau
1389 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:49 AM
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HarpNinja, that's what I read and commented on. He did not comment on his playing.
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bluemozark
58 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:52 AM
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(1)He overplays the hell out of every song I've ever heard him play.
(2)Uses too many effects.
And this is just for starters. I don't need to state the rest of the not "PC" reasons I don't care for him.
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Rift
84 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:53 AM
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Post a video of how he should be playing. I am sure he would appreciate it and could learn a lot from you.
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toddlgreene
2873 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:57 AM
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Bluemozark, there are many players whose playing style doesn't appeal to me either, but I don't publicly lambaste and insult them because of their sexual preferences, wardrobe, etc. If I don't have anything nice to say, I keep it to myself. Perhaps you should try this. No, we don't worship the ground Jason Ricci walks on-my issue with you is your lack of respect. Your insults could have been directed at anyone and I would respond the same way.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 8:59 AM
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Honkin On Bobo
639 posts
Apr 08, 2011
8:58 AM
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I will say that the trigger on locking a thread seems much more easily tripped these days. There was one thread a while back, which I found incredibly interesting, relating to Robert Johnson, the devil, and the crossroads. A lot of well written and thought out posts from several members, including our own esteemed Dr. Gussow. Then a single member with an axe to grind came in spewing crap. It was clearly a "him" problem, not a "thread topic" problem..yet, BOOM! the thread got locked........... no more great discussion.
It was kinda sad..like if you were in the middle of a great class or lecture and a student starts acting out. I'd expect the prof. to boot the student..not take his white board and go home.
I've only been in trouble with the forum once, for defending myself from what I thought was a cheap shot leveled at me by another member, when I was only trying to offer some meager advice to a third member. I was told it would be "my only warning, and to take my dysfunction elsewhere".
I realized at that moment none of the bullshit of trying to explain myself would be worth it. I like the forum a lot and consider it a valuable resource to advance my playing, so I bit my tongue and apologized, even though I didn't feel I was in the wrong, and told myself, make future posts regarding questions about the harp and blues music only. I post a lot less now.
I also realized the arbitrary nature of who gets booted, when threads get locked, how it's determined when a line has been crossed, and that the level of arbitraryness only increases as the sheriff's job has been delegated to several parties.
Not sure if any of the above helps ya blumozark. Just pointing out how I handled it in my own instance.
In the end, if you think there's value for you in the information the forum provides, you may have to bite the bullet on expressing yourself a bit.
just my pitiful two cents.
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bluemozark
59 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:04 AM
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>>No, we don't worship the ground Jason Ricci walks on<<
That's a joke, Right? Any casual first time reader of this forum could see that isn't true. yes, I'm sure you can't see this.
Lack of respect? Or differing opinion? I don't share the opinion of the minions here, and I'm not afraid to state it. And I don't play "PC" games.
so what? crucify me.
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 9:05 AM
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toddlgreene
2874 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:05 AM
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Ok.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
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HarpNinja
1315 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:07 AM
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We don't need to you seem to be doing alright with that yourself.
Yes, a blatant lack of respect...no differing opinion at all...just comments about someone unrelated to harp. I read no comments on anything harmonica from you regarding Jason. Don't make yourself out to be a hero for not playing PC games and being so bold as to state a different opinion. IME people who do that usually offer very little food for thought and often troll on subjects or take things in a totally worthless direction.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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toddlgreene
2875 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:08 AM
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Bluemozark is no longer a member of this forum. His wish was my command.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
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HarpNinja
1316 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:12 AM
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At risk of getting in a bit of trouble, I love the irony in booting yourself from a forum after an event like this as if it were our loss or some huge slap in the face. If anything, those frustrated by his recent posts feel like they won.
*Personally, I had no problem with him sticking around and posting if he was going to actually some harmonica insight or opinion instead of unrelated personal attacks on people.
There are many ways to share a differing opinion without going out of your way to tear others down.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
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Rift
85 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:22 AM
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Damn, I was looking forward to him posting an instructional video to show jason how to play! (sarcasm.....)
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captainbliss
521 posts
Apr 08, 2011
9:37 AM
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@Honkin On Bobo:
/I realized at that moment none of the bullshit of trying to explain myself would be worth it. I like the forum a lot and consider it a valuable resource to advance my playing [...] I also realized the arbitrary nature of who gets booted, when threads get locked, how it's determined when a line has been crossed, and that the level of arbitraryness only increases as the sheriff's job has been delegated to several parties./
That's worth a lot more than two cents!
xxx
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tomaxe
8 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:12 AM
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This bluemozark guy has been a pain in the neck on other harmonica forums for at least 10 years...I'm pretty sure it is the same guy...I rarely remember names but that one clearly sticks out. As someone who rarely posts but reads a lot —for info on harp—I could count on one hand the amount of insightful posts that guy has contributed; he often picks "fights" (for lack of a better term for someone who flames people behind a computer screen), so he really wasn't here to learn or contribute anything, despite everyone's good intentions on being patient and fair. And if you join a forum called "Modern Blues Harmonica" and are upset that Jason Ricci is a frequent topic of discussion you clearly stepped into the wrong tavern. Cheers. My two cents, I guess.
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ZackPomerleau
1390 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:19 AM
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Too many effects? Opinion, but it works for his music. Overplays? Sometimes, I agree. Otherwise, he was disrespectful.
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kudzurunner
2422 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:24 AM
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For the record, I happen to be a huge fan of Jason's harmonica playing, which is why we're bringing him to Hill Country Harmonica this year. I'm hardly alone in thinking that he's one of the living greats. And I'm glad that my opinion is shared by many here.
But it's certainly not shared by everybody here, and that's OK, too. I've often found myself in disagreement with fellow forum members about specific players. I can remember, for example, a thread or two within the past year where I criticized John Nemeth's singing on a particular song; I took a lot of heat for that. Again, that's OK. Honest disagreements are a good thing.
The characterization of this as a forum where people worship the ground JR walks on is silly. Again: many of us love what he does, but not all of us do.
All of what I've said above stands apart from the forum creed, which is forthright and as specific as experience has taught us that it needs to be.
Casual anti-gay remarks don't fly here. Period. If somebody wants to call that rule PC, fine. I really don't care what you call it, as long as you obey the rule.
Membership in the MBH forum is a privilege, not a right. It's also entirely voluntary. If you can't abide the rules, nobody is forcing you to stay.
The truth is, the great majority of us have, over time, figured out how to have fun here, express ourselves honestly and respectfully, and exchange a great deal of information without coming close to breaching the creed. We had trouble in 2010, though, with a handful of people who were ultimately unable to abide the rules. We don't want to go back there. Thanks in large part to the relaxed but attentive approach of our four moderators, this place has worked pretty darn well in 2011.
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MP
1586 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:31 AM
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BUT! BUT! BUT!....:)
and furthermore, todd and bluto said the germans bombed pearl habor......
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
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jaymcc28
326 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:32 AM
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"Thanks in large part to the relaxed but attentive approach of our four moderators, this place has worked pretty darn well in 2011. "
I was just about to post something similar when I saw this from Kudzu.
I think that the moderators handled this particular situation, along with the most previous one, expertly. Sure, one could argue that the thread was shut down prematurely, however it is pretty obvious that the, ahem, 'gentleman', in question was going to take that thread down to a place we don't want to go.
Well done moderator (Todd?)!
I don't write a lot here but it is a place I visit EVERY DAY and usually many times a day. I have met a few of the other members personally, including our esteemed host. We have a lot of good people in this community. Folks who want to contribute useful information or share their opinions. It HAS been a nicer feeling in 2011 and that can be attributed directly to those put in charge.
Thanks, guys, for doing a thankless job.
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"I say stay long enough to repay all who cause strife."-L. Staley
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Lmbrjak
30 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:39 AM
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@toddlgreene You are doing a good job as moderator. Thanks! Arrogant,angry bitter,sarcastic remarks can ruin a thread for those of us who just want to read and learn. My tongue was getting sore from biting it until you intervened.
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toddlgreene
2876 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:40 AM
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His offenses weren't just today or yesterday, but ongoing. Most of his snide, insulting remarks towards more than one member here were met with a gentle warning, and some a blind eye was turned to, as they never escalated. This is a place I enjoy coming to learn and share what little I know about harmonica. I've developed some real-life friends and many acquaintances here. I came here with 20 years of playing already under my belt, and I have learned more in the past few years from this forum and its' members than could fill another 20 years. It doesn't need to be soured by negativity and rude remarks. I'm all for a healthy debate sometimes, although I generally avoid them myself, but when the insults fly, things turn ugly quick.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 12:32 PM
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Rift
87 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:48 AM
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@MP - We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons, but that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part!
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toddg
36 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:50 AM
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Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 12:18 PM
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jaymcc28
329 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:04 AM
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@Rift: "We're just the guys to do it!"
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"I say stay long enough to repay all who cause strife."-L. Staley
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Rift
89 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:06 AM
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Yeah, I agree. Let's go get 'em.
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waltertore
1266 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:09 AM
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keep up the good work Todd. I couldn't figure the guy out. He would respond to many of my posts with stuff I didn't understand and when I asked for clarification he never responded. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,600+ of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
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toddlgreene
2877 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:13 AM
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Walter, you were another of his targets. He had some sort of wild hair for you-trust me, I saw his posts-and he wanted to strike a nerve.
'Mind if we dance with your dates?'
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 11:19 AM
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MrVerylongusername
1656 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:33 AM
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Just to follow on from an earlier point - when a previously lively, on topic thread has been disrupted by one person and the topic locked is there any possibiity of unlocking that thread again once the offender has been booted?
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Stevelegh
157 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:36 AM
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I've seen this many times before. Some people take the liberty of 'freedom of speech' and the internet being in the public domain and try to apply it to a privately owned forum and start screaming 'PC brigade'. Adam's house, Adam's rules and Bluemozark didn't give a sh!t about the houserules or the host. The guy deserved ousting purely on that basis IMHO.
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 11:37 AM
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toddlgreene
2878 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:36 AM
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Mr. VLUN, I think I can do that. Let me try it...
EDIT:Yup.
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Todd
Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 11:39 AM
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nacoran
3979 posts
Apr 08, 2011
11:57 AM
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Nate's Semi-Serious Rules to Forum Posting:
1. Always use soap. We can't smell you through your keyboard, but the technology is just over the horizon, so be ready!
2. Remember, the internet might be forever.
3. Don't hate anyone unless they are preaching hate.
4. There might be girls around so stop acting sketchy.
5. Approach conversations like there is at least an small chance the other person is right and you are wrong. Sure, you know you're right, but just leaving that wiggling room will make you come off as if you are open minded!
6. If spend every hour in an internet forum that internet forum will become your whole life and you will lose perspective.
7. If you feel the need to troll, go get a hug, then see a therapist. It may seem like you are getting attention, but it's the wrong kind. Make sure both you and the person you are going to hug follow rule number one.
8. Try to expose people to your thoughts instead of converting them to your cause.
9. If you really have to insult someone, make sure you tailor the insult down to the level where you are insulting just that person and not other forum members. So, for instance, don't say, "Over blowers and tongue blockers spread mouth herpes." Instead, "I know you borrowed someones harp and got herpes, but how did you get them in your ear?... oh, never mind, I just saw the YouTube video. That explains why you always say your harp is too loud."
10. Never bring up Voldemort.
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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Chickenthief
90 posts
Apr 08, 2011
1:39 PM
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I like Jasons pants.
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eharp
1277 posts
Apr 08, 2011
2:55 PM
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when are you folks gonna learn to let things slide by? you all act like it is your spot to rectify the way somebody thinks/posts.
leave it to the moderators.
todd was on track about the locked thread. if every one would have let "offending" post, and i use that term loosely, then that may have been the end of it.
i see this one getting locked in about an hour.
this forum gets more locked threads than any other i participate in or have been told about.
and please dont use the "more passionate" card.
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MP
1587 posts
Apr 08, 2011
3:11 PM
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@Rift,jay, and todd. gotta love pop culture!
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MP
doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2011 3:21 PM
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hvyj
1354 posts
Apr 08, 2011
4:36 PM
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FWIW, Harp-l has a hard and fast prohibition of "meta discussion" which is discussion about the discussion on the forum as opposed to discussion of a particular topic.
There is apparently no rule against meta discussion on MBH. Perhaps this is because it occurs with such regularity even though it is devoid of substantive harmonica content. Or maybe this is why it occurs with such regularity.
Nothing like a good old fashioned excommunication to generate meta gossip, I suppose.
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Miles Dewar
838 posts
Apr 08, 2011
6:42 PM
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"Nothing like a good old fashioned excommunication to generate meta gossip, I suppose."
The trend seems to be a decline in posts after those confrontations. ;)
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shadoe42
23 posts
Apr 08, 2011
7:20 PM
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a better forum software package would help. Subforums with a place for general chat. That way posts and threads could be moved or locked depending on how offending it is. There are some far better forum packages out there that are free.
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The Musical Blades
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Aussiesucker
825 posts
Apr 08, 2011
7:32 PM
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Opinions do vary so that is why some should be kept to oneself. That said I have sometimes regretted hitting the submit button.
Nothing beats a good robust discussion within the confines of the rules. This is a great forum with a wide range of differing skill levels from beginner to expert. There is a lot to be gained by being here and treating everyone with respect. It comes back in large measures.
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BronzeWailer
111 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:46 PM
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@Chickenthief. I don't mind the pants myself. I like wearing flowery pants, partly to enjoy the outrage of conservative dressers, I must admit.
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bluemoose
523 posts
Apr 08, 2011
10:47 PM
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I really dislike people who submit top ten lists but I've never seen your videos and no ,he who shall not be named, this is not my whole life and define forever.
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MBH Webbrain - a GUI guide to Adam's Youtube vids
FerretCat Webbrain - Jason Ricci's vids (by hair colour!)
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