A little while back, GreyOwlPhotoArt posted a video where he describe a technique he discovered for himself where he does a kind of slap technique with a pucker embouchure. Well, myself and a few others chimed in that we also did this (and in fact, I learned it from Adam's vids). I promised Grey that I'd post a video of how I do it, but I got busy and sidetracked and never got around to it. Until now!
Let the discussion recommence!
PS, sorry for the crappy audio. the sound card on my computer sucks, and introduces a crackly noise when I use the computer's built in mic.
The crackle, combined with the black and white video actually gives it kind of a vintage feel. Too bad you weren't wearing on old timey blues video. Good video. :)
Thanks for posting Isaac. Your explanation of how you execute the technique was very clear and concise and further demonstrates a useful workaround for lip pursers who would prefer to stick to the style of playing they've become accustomed to and spent a lot of time developing.
I'm personally viewing this technique as very much work in progress, in fattening the tone further and becoming faster. It's a fun learning curve and it would be nice to hear if anyone else is working on this at present.
I too am happy to do splits and octaves with the tongue as it doesn't hamper my usuual playing style and to be honest I can't think of another way of acheiving this LP'd either. No doubt there will be someone out there, (collagen assisted maybe) who will say 'What's the problem it's easy?'
I like the sound your getting with lip slapping. Through a mic I bet you couldn't tell the difference, I'd think. I've spent time learning to play tongue blocked so I do the tongue slaps. Like, when you do the boogie woogie thingy that I also do I would do that with tongue slaps myself but it pretty much sounds the same. Nice video.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Since the lip slapping thread a month or so ago I've been playing with this technique and finding where it works.
I'm finding it useful in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd position. Great for folk songs like You Are My Sunshine and Wildwood Flower....great vamping tool in 2nd among other things....and some pretty cool stuff you can do in 3rd position on holes 4,5,6, and 8,9,10.
Like Isaac, I don't have any problem with tongue block splits, I'm just not very good at TB to the side.
At first I was just doing the primary hole and the hole on each side to chord...but with practice you can go to one side or the other and catch one or even two holes with practice.
Great topic because it teaches players more options available to them. Some will find this is easier than TB and some will not.
Thanks guys, I'm glad you've found it understandable and useful! Yeah, I fully believe that the only "best" way is that way that gives you the sound *you* like, and which does so the way that is most comfortable to you. It's really good to have a lot of options, and the lip slap/lip pull technique is a really cool option that I think a lot of people could benefit from knowing about. Like harpdude61 says, some will find this easier, and some will prefer to TB. It's all about figuring out what works for YOU! :)
A clear explanation, and which has explained to me what I am doing! I TB octaves and LP the rest but I have never analysed what I am doing over many years, thanks Isaacullah
@harmonicanick: That's pretty funny that you've been doing this technique for years, but never realized it! I'd be willing to bet that there are a lot more folks out there like you who do this technique, but aren't fully aware of it. It's a great technique.
I'm also curious to hear if any MBH'ers who were NOT doing this technique have now tried to do it for the first time? What do these folks think about it?
Personally, I chose to incorporate this into my playing style after hearing MAL do a slow-blues right after he started TB'ing. The fatness of those chord blasts in between the single notes really made all the difference. In contrast, my all single note style sounded dull and lifeless compared to that (for that style of playing). I needed the dynamics that the slaps give, but I was unable to do it very well in the TB style, so I naturally began to incorporate it into my pucker style with this lip slap technique. It's made a huge difference to my sound, and I'm glad I did it!
I think Isaac's video is great. He obviously has what it takes to be a teacher in his chosen field.
I had a few minutes last night so I made a one-take youtube in response to Isaac's thread.
It could be a little cleaner but it does give a pretty good idea of some stuff you can play without your tongue touching the harp.
I'm a big fan of some of the TB stuff you guys have posted and what the pros like Kim Wilson do, but for me I'm going to practice the lip slapping method for a while to see what happens. I'll still tongue block on splits...for some reason they come easy for me compared to blocking to one side.
Wow! I'd really like to thank harpdude61 for posting this great video with so many cool examples of the lip slap/lip pull technique in it. Harpdude's video highlights some important strengths of the Lip Slap technique as combined with typical lip pucker playing. First off, it makes it MUCH easier to go from a slap right into an overblow. He demonstrated this several times in his playing. Second, I find it much easier to get clean single notes Lip Blocking, so I (and harpdude) can get a really cool fast progression between lip slapped/pulled chords and really clean single note runs. I know that really good TB'ers can also do this, but I've found it much much more difficult to do it TB'ing than with the lip slap. Harpdude also really nicely demonstrates the ability to do great sounding chordal vamps and chord patterns, alternating with single notes. This is what I love to do the most using the lip slap/pull technique. It just sounds really really cool!
Let's hear more samples from you Lip Slappers out there! ---------- == I S A A C ==
From Jerry's Harmonica Masterclass-"Although I generally play the first three holes with my lips,sometimes for tonal and percussive purposes,I still tongue block at the bottom of the harp. On occasion,I will bend with my tongue on the harp as well". Jerry lip blocks on second and third holes only as needed,tongue blocking the rest.
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2011 5:45 AM
I agree with tmf-although you can technically cover those holes with your lips, the percussive effect is much more noticeable with the tongue. I primarily lip purse, but always use my tongue for the slaps. But, Isaac's vid shows a good alternative to those hwo have trouble with the tongue method. ---------- Todd
I admit that tongue slaps are a little crisper than lip slaps.
I do agree wih Isaac's points about lips slaps...much easier to go into an overbend....easier to move around the harp quickly..and the bent single note to a chord comes very easy. At 48 seconds I alternate between 4 hole draw bent and the 3,4,5 draw chord. Can this be done TBing?
Posters have said they and others tongue block for overblows and overdraws. Thats is cool! I cannot. I hope it sounds big and in control. Even cooler if they can bend it up 1/2 step with a big strong vibrato. I would love to see that it can be done to give others and maybe myself something else to strive for.
I don't try to defend my technique because it's what I do or prefer. I think players new and old can learn from what you can and cannot do with each technique. Who knows..this thread may entice someone to experiment and come up with new techniqes or licks or combinations.
Isaac's intention with this thread is to educate.
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2011 7:04 AM
It is also about musicality-make that note or notes pop. Some musical terms like "rim shot","staccato", "crescendo" and so on are good examples. "Slap" should leave no queston in a musicians mind-it's short,sharp and staccato-short,clear cut playing of tones or chords. Think about getting slapped in the face-there is a definite sound involved-it's abrupt,sometimes shocking. Whats being shown in the video is a change of embochure-from chords to single notes. Im not hearing any percussive effect to it-again-it becomes about the music-do those notes really pop and stand out?
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2011 8:43 AM
Enjoying this thread and the good playing contributions and demonstrations by Isaac and Harpdude of the technique as well as the observations of others.
When I posted a vid recently on this subject which Isaac drew attention to at the start of this post I was really interested to learn that others were working on and using this technique and I'm sure there are more folk ready to 'out' themselves(come on there is nothing to be ashamed about!! :)
I am including this vid again here but would suggest you skip the first bit where I clumsily try to explain the technique. Isaac gives a much more 'in depth' and articulate description.
Anyway I do think you can hear some definite slaps on my demo, though some are stronger and more pronounced than others. (what do you think tmf714?)
If you come in around the 1 minute mark you will hear 12 single notes each followed by 12 lip slap notes and then a short demo of a riff demonstrating these lip slaps. You can also skip the 2nd riff because it doen't contain enough slaps.
I completely understand tmf714's take on this because tone considerations aside it is the slap that is sexy and needs to be heard as clearly as it can be if it is to adequately approximate a TB slap. That is what I am working on as I'm sure the others are.
I'm in the process of developing something to add a bit more attack to the slap. This involves having a relaxed and loose lipped embouchure, then when you narrow the embouchure rapidly to grap the single slap note I simultaneously push the inside of either top or bottom lip down onto and round the hole. ( much easier to do than describe. I will try and post something in the next couple of days.
Apart from articulating the Lip slap, the other issue is trying to do this at speed and this may take a little getting used to. It would appear to be easier at first glance to lay and move your tongue than widen an contract the lip aperture.
I totally agree with harpdudes approach on this subject. It is no way laying down a gauntlet to elevate one technique over another. More strings to your bow is never a bad thing. There are always new ways to looking at things and hurdles to overcome. I bet there was a time when T'Blockers were told 'You'll never be able to play OB/OD's TB. then a guy comes along and does it and the floodgates open.
Sincerely hoping this can happen and some dude will come along and start doing some amazing high speed 'whip cracking' Lip slaps!!!
I do hear it Grey Owl-but I would need to hear it mic'ed in a live setting. I does sound ok on the low notes,but as with all techinques posted here,I do hear some air leaking in. Check out my buddy Troy Gonyea with Kim Wilson-listen at the 1:40 mark especially,but Kim is providing excellent rhythm throughout with tongue slaps,supporting Troy in the absence of a drummer.
Great post Greyowlphotoart! What you are doing is great. Your slaps are pronounced to me. Slowing it down, as with most any technique, is the way to improve the technique. Speed will come.
I think it is cool that me, you, and Isaac are all slapping but each sounds different and unique to our own harmonica voice.
Harmonica is the coolest thing ever. It amazes me that an instrument so tiny, can be played with so many varying techniques, styles, tones, positions...etc..etc..etc
@tmf714 Yeah I'm at the point where I need to hone the technique. I'm starting again and looking at Dave Barrett's TB lessons and see if I can follow his beginners teaching but using lip slaps to emulate TB.
I think mic'ing up and cupped might help if anything as it would deaden the relative raspiness of LP and add to the percussiveness. No doubt the low notes are easier for me at present, I'm finding it more difficult to home in on the higher notes but it does seem possible. There is a plummy thud to the TB slap which is really nice, maybe because of the big chamber that is created in the mouth with the tongue laid to the side and this may be hard to re-create LP but I sure as hell am going to try!!
Nice groove on the vid btw, Ta.
@ Harpdude61 Cheers man, nice to be in good company!!
""Harmonica is the coolest thing ever. It amazes me that an instrument so tiny, can be played with so many varying techniques, styles, tones, positions...etc..etc..etc""
Wow, great comments on this thread! I've been down with the Flu, and only now had a chance to catch up. tmf brings up an interesting point re: the percussiveness of the tongue slap versus the lip slap. I think the tongue slap probably does indeed lend itself easier to a percussive sound, but I also think that you could get a more percussive sound with the lip slap if you worked on it. In fact, that's now given me a new goal with this technique! I'll work on it and see what I can come up with... ---------- == I S A A C ==
