Last night I was jamming with a guitarist who suggested that we play together some more. The thing is, he seems to play almost exclusively in minor keys. I was taking big risks in playing in 3rd and 5th positions, not something I have really done before, but it seemed to go down quite well with the small audience. If I were to get a couple of minor keyed harps, should I get natural or harmonic? I have no idea what the difference is or which he would be playing in.
---------- "Come on Brackett let's get changed"
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2011 2:08 PM
The natural minor scale has a flat third, flat sixth and flat seventh. The harmonic minor scale has a flat third, flat sixth and MAJOR seventh. For most popular music, natural minor is used much more often than harmonic minor.
But use third position for DORIAN minor. The Dorian minor scale has a flat third, MAJOR sixth and flat seventh which is the scale you get in third position. If in doubt, when the guitar player calls a minor key, just ask him if it's Dorian minor or natural minor. If he doesn't know, ask him if the scale has a flat sixth or a major sixth (major sixth=Dorian). If he's not sure, ask him if he's playing the IV chord major or minor--if major, it's Dorian, so use third position.
Playing in minor keys is fun. It sounds cool and it's really not very difficult--just different.
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2011 2:12 PM
Yes, play 2nd, 3rd and 5th positions over minors. I do it all the time. I don't own any minor harps. I think hvyj has said the same in the past, too.
Edit:I've also done 4th a time or two on some Spanish-sounding tunes, and it worked well. ---------- Todd Eudora and Deep Soul
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2011 2:16 PM
You can get Marine Bands in minor tunings, which would probably be in the same price range. Seydel's come in all sorts of tunings, but I think all the minor harps start at about the same price.
Playing second position for minors is tricky--you've got to be able to hit the 3D* dead on accurate every time even in passing and avoid B7. Personally, I only use second to play minor on "Miss You."
For Spanish sounding stuff, i think fifth position is a better choice than fourtth because it puts you in Phrygian mode (flat 2nd, flat 3rd, flat 6th, flat 7th) and it's the flat 2nd that provides the exotic Spanish sound. You avoid the flat 2nd (D5 and D9) if using fifth position to play natural minor. You can bend (D2* B9*) to get major 2nd in fifth position if you need that note.
Fourth position is easy for minor key playing. No bends at all to play natural minor except 3D** to get root in the lower register, BUT you can get a lot of mileage out of fourth position even if you never play root in the lower register. Very easy position to get around in if you know where the notes of the natural minor scale are.
The trick to playing minor in fourth and fifth position is DON'T BEND indiscriminately because if you do, you will take yourself out of minor tonality and it will sound bad. This formula is oversimplified, but in fifth only use D3* and D3** and in fourth only use D3** (and for blues B8*) and don't bend any other notes. Of course, there are other bends you can use if you know what you are doing, but if you don't, just stick with ONLY these and you won't take yourself out of minor tonality as you play.
Btw, you can play harmonic minor in fourth position by bending (D3*** and D6*) for major seventh. But I don't find myself needing to play in harmonic minor hardly at all and I regularly play with musicians that play minor key material quite often.
A lot of harp players just use third position for all minor keys, but I find that very limiting and I only use third for Dorian minors. I like fifth position so much i will occasionally even use it for Dorian minors--i bend (D4*) to get major 6th when i play Dorian in fifth position. But third position is probably the all around better choice for playing Dorian minor.
IMHO, the only advantage to minor tuned harps is you can get more usable chords. But, I've never actually owned any minor harps.
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2011 3:03 PM
@harmonicanick: It took me FOREVER to learn to handle minor keys competently on a Richter tuned harmonica. The stuff I've laid out above literally took me YEARS to figure out. You won't find it in any instructional materials.
Btw, i agree with you that the minor keys you have listed are the most commonly called--except I find that G natural minor is called often enough that I wouldn't leave it at home even for non jazz gigs (if I carried minor harps, that is). And, of course, "The Thrill is Gone" is in B minor.
Last Edited by on Feb 16, 2011 3:26 PM
"For most popular music, natural minor is used much more often than harmonic minor."
I was taught the opposite - if it's not specified, you play the harmonic minor scale. Even when just playing the natural minor scale, it doesn't sound "right" like the harmonic (with the sharp 7) scale.
@arzajac: You may be right. I have no formal music training. But i do understand the significance of the leading tone. I'm just going by what I wind up playing when I play out--and I play quite a bit.
There are quite a few minor tunes that have a major V chord even though the I and IV chords are minor. Would you call those tunes harmonic minor?
you can't play blues, rock ,or western music very well. hmmm... maybe the good the bad and the ugly theme, but mostly polkas, prokofiev, and songs by the russian army chorus. ----------
MP doctor of semiotics and reed replacement.
"making the world a better place, one harmonica at a time"
LO natural minors also give you the (their)relative major scale from 3D. Great for tunes that go between the two.. It's all there on his website, if you have a look around. @ hvyj - I really appreciate your posts and would gladly pay a dollar a page, should ever write a book of your well assembled, hard-won harmonica/music thoughts. Seriously :) ---------- KiwiRick
Well, if you like LO's already, that's probably the model for you. I bet there is an untapped market for really cheap minor harps. I wouldn't want a Blues Band for an everyday harp, but it would be a cool way to check out alternate tunings.
Hey, big harp makers, how about it? Give us a set of Piedmont's or whatever cheap harp you sell in seven packs with 7 different tunings instead of 7 different keys. Let's see- spiral, Spanish, Paddy, harmonic minor, natural minor, power tuning, country?
Besides the natural and harmonic minor harmonicas, there are other minor tunings:
ricter logic: 1) "seven" - draw minor, blow major 2) "reggae" or "easy third" - 2 & 3 draw lowered by 2 semitones, played in 3rd pos.
spiral logic: 1) circular - plays in parallel minor, many chord combinations 2) truechromatic - several minor positions, many chord combinations 3) spiral harmonic minor - 100% notes are in the harm. minor scale
solo logic: 1) solo tuning - parallel minor 2) solo harmonic minor
