Dirty-South Blues Harp Forum: For blues harmonica players, students, and fans

Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > playing harmonica for a living?

playing harmonica for a living?

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thechangingcolors
1 post
Feb 11, 2011
6:45 PM

I was never really into blues music before i decided to start learning to play the harmonica. i already played the guitar a little and i liked mainly rock music. anyway i started learning the harmonica because it sounds cool and its neat how they fit all these notes on a little rectangle thingy in a little five inch long line. um so i have been playing for a few months, maybe five now..i can play simple melodies pretty easy like oh susana is easy, single notes are pretty easy, although jumping around and accuratly hitting the other note is not always easy, sometimes i miss..i can play some simple chord and rythm type things but really my sense of rythm isnt even that great. I have gotten better since starting to learn to play music but i had a terrible sense of rythm to begin with. but i will practice with a metronome alot. i can also bend notes, half step bends like the four and one are easy, i can usually bend the three hole about a half step if i want and i can easily bend it all the way down, hitting the whole step is harder. i can improvise a little bit with the 2nd position minor pentatonic/blues scale, and several other scales, i can play warbles and few different triplets pretty fast. i know a little bit about music theory, and i know what the notes are on the harmonica and about most of the commonly used scales and what not. my sense of pitch is not really terrific but i have been taking singing lessons as well, although only a few so far i am making alot of progress with all of that. matching notes with a piano etc. its actually alot of fun. anyway im not sure why i even typed all that the main thing is i really love playing the harmonica and i want to practice all the time and be as good at it as possible and also i was wondering how it would be to try being a musician for a living, or atleast to earn some money. what would a person have to do? and do you have any advice at all on getting better at the harmonica?

kudzurunner
2318 posts
Feb 11, 2011
6:53 PM

The best advice I can give you is to table the issue of making money with the harp until you've devoted yourself to the instrument for at least a year. Pay a few dues in the woodshed first. Learn your craft. If it turns out that you've got any talent, there will be lots of time later on to make money with it. Right now, you should be delving deeply into your music and not forcing it to bear the burden of any money-making thoughts.

Advice about getting better: listen to as many great harp players as you can, live and recorded. Do your best to imitate their licks. At the same time, listen deeply to other good musicians whose music you like, and try to copy a lick or two from them. Take a couple of lessons with a really good player. Go to a jam session and play in front of people, no matter how badly.

Most importantly: learn songs. Don't just learn how to "jam on a blues." Learn songs. Make a list of the songs you know. Learn melodies. Start with Christmas carols, folk songs, insipid commercial melodies and TV sitcom theme songs. Train your ears and your reflexes. Learn songs.

Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2011 6:56 PM

jawbone
396 posts
Feb 11, 2011
6:59 PM

aw shoot - does that mean I have to give all the money back??!!!???

Hey colours - Just kidding - the above is very good advice.

Oh yeah - WELCOME!!!
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!

Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2011 6:59 PM

ronmcmillan
17 posts
Feb 11, 2011
7:15 PM

For years I played with some of the world's best blues musicians, many of them long dead and all of them on my CD player. Practice, practice, practice is the mantra, and by picking some of the best tunes in your music collection you will learn licks and runs and sequences from the masters.

If you want to play blues, there is the relatively simple 12-bar sequence to become totally comfortable with so that, no matter what key you are in, you KNOW where you should be next. Without lessons, the only way to acquire that certainty is to play along with the CDs thousands of times.

I'm no professional, but I have the most fun of my life participating in jams in blues bars, and wouldn't trade that fun for anything, least of all a few bucks. So if I were you I'd concentrate first on learning, but also on continuing to have fun, fun, fun.

thechangingcolors
2 posts
Feb 11, 2011
7:19 PM

oh yeah i dont know anything about where there are blues jams, i live in kind of a small town, i guess i could look it up on the internet. Im actually kind of trying to get a psychedelic rock band together, i know a dude who plays the bass guitar, so it wil probably be fun to play with him..

i can play a few songs, i cant remember all of em, buti can do oh susana, the first part of starwars, i can do the sinshine of your love riff as you taught in one of your lessons and some other simple rock riffs like smoke on the water iron man etc. etc. but that is good advice to learn lots of songs, i have neglected it somewhat. like i learned the first part of joy to the world but i was to lazy to learn the last part lol. and i didnt really mean i was trying to make money off of it right now, but i think, hypothetically, i might be able start trying to make some money in less then a year. because really the thing is i dont even have a life at all right now, i have so much time to practice you dont even understand, im gonna get better at this at a pretty quick rate. i have watched alot of your videos on youtube and i like the kinda stuff you do (i love your one man band version of sunshine of your love, cream was a really awesome band too), and i have watched alot of jason riccis videos too, hes a really awesome harmonica player too. the two of you are probably my main inspiration as well as the people who taught me most of the stuff i know, and your videos are very entertaining too. from jason i learned how to do some fancy scale excersizes and such, buld up some speed and learn to move around scales, im glad i learned about that. soon i will be learning the rest of the scales its possible to do on the harmonica without overblows (that can wait for a minute..)and spending all of my time tirelessely practicing all of them, practicing scale excersizes, emprovising with the scales, etc...

and also just to clarify, im not in this for the money (its just that im in highschool and were supposed to be thinking about what we want to do for a career) i really love playing the harmonica. singing and playing the guitar are fun too, and im usually not even in a happy mood unless im getting to make music, cuz im kind of depressive person. but yeah anyway i play the harmonica because its so much fun, even if i knew for a fact that i could never make a penny off of it i would still practice tirelessly at it trying to get perfect technique...and of course effectivly express emotion through music..

thechangingcolors
3 posts
Feb 11, 2011
7:26 PM

yep ron, yer right practice is the mantra.its the mantra with everything else as well, not just harmonica. practice is what is required, and practicing the harmonica is probably the single most enjoyable activity i have available to me.

Greg Heumann
1044 posts
Feb 11, 2011
10:24 PM

I don't want to be a wet blanket - but Adam's advice is sage, and perhaps overly polite. Nobody wants to shatter your dreams. But making money as a harp player?

Yes, you can - but it will have to be your life's obsession and it will take YEARS of operating at a loss. NO WAY it is going to happen this year, or next. Decide now to do it for the enjoyment of it and ensure you have another means of support. If you're really dedicated, talented, musical and smart, you'll know after several years whether you stand a chance.

I personally know many of the best harp players in the world. I've been fortunate through my business, and SPAH, to get to know them. This is a fact: There are very, very few players who actually make a living playing harmonica. There are hundreds or thousands of incredibly good harp players around. The very best players, the cream of the crop, known internationally, touring all the time, getting booked in the best venues, who have been playing, paying dues, making contacts and publishing albums for 30 and 40 years - like Musselwhite, Piazza, Wilson, Estrin - make livings - but they are in no way living lives of rock star luxury. Newer guys with fresh ideas, just dripping with talent, like Jason Ricci - traveled with their band doing 300 gigs a year for several years, won awards, got record contracts - and STILL can't make a living at it.

That is the cold hard truth.

----------
/Greg

BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes

ronmcmillan
18 posts
Feb 11, 2011
11:11 PM

Greg is of course dead right. I saw Rick Estrin and Charley Batey in a tiny jazz bar in Hongkong where they were probably getting air tickets and a few hundred bucks for a week's work. These guys don't make great sums of money.

So it is near impossible to make good money at it, but that shouldn't put you off chasing your dream. Even if you have to amend the dream a little until you are content perhaps with some semi-pro gigs along with the infinite pleasure of jamming in public jam sessions in bars and clubs, you'll still be chasing dreams. I, for one, can't put anyone down for that. Good luck.

ron

captainbliss
443 posts
Feb 12, 2011
1:26 AM

@thechangingcolors:

1. Congratulations on your excellent taste in instrument!

2. /being a musician for a living, or atleast to earn some money. what would a person have to do?/

(a) Get good at / enjoy teaching. I can make more in a few days' teaching than I can in a month with gigs every night.

(b) Get "good enough" at singing harmonies, playing percussion, possibly guitar, bass, keys (sounds like you've got a head start here?) as well. There's a lot more work for a musician whose main instrument is harmonica but who can be backing (even lead) singer / percussionist / all-round band member + musical contributor.

(c) Get good at / enjoy performing and entertaining. Most people don't care about in the slightest about the harmonica (sad but true!) but pretty much everyone likes a good show.

3. /practice all the time/ You got it! As kudzurunner says, learn whole songs, whole songs and more whole songs.

EDIT: /That is the cold hard truth./ Greg Heumann isn't trying to discourage you. Really, it's like that.

xxx

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 1:31 AM

MN
51 posts
Feb 12, 2011
1:56 AM

If you're going to "make a living" as a harp player, it'd be a good idea to first buy a tent and sleeping bag, then get out of the habit of eating, then get extremely healthy (unless your dad owns a health insurance company).

Kingley
1442 posts
Feb 12, 2011
2:58 AM

Making a living playing music is really tough. For a harmonica player it's even tougher. For a blues harmonica player it's probably about ten times tougher than that.

We all dream of not "working" for a living but the reality is that if you want to be a full time harmonica player then you're going to work 12-18 hour days, 7 days a week, have no holidays and still be more than dirt poor. Even most great players struggle to make ends meet and more often than not spend most of the time in heavy debt.

The most sensible way to approach music is to learn your craft, then once your chops are honed look for gigs on a part-time basis. For your main income it's far better to learn a practical trade/go to college and then apply yourself to that.

colman
23 posts
Feb 12, 2011
5:49 AM

you heard the story for money.now if you want to learn blues,look at it as a language,learn to speak it than sing it.the harp trinity to learn from is
Sonny Terry,Sonny boy 2, little walter...have them as the basis you can`t go wrong.you can always learn from any one else,but those three define blues harp
language. do it to it... also,hook up with a guitar player and do a two thing ,best chance to make money soon.

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 5:52 AM

waltertore
1053 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:07 AM

All of these stories are true but I say do what is in you. Take from here what inspires you and ignore the rest. I made a living off my harp for 20 years. If one has the passion it will happen. It was a struggle but the drive to play and travel the world doing it was stronger than any material concerns. Most people are unwilling to forgo the worldly things. Unless one is driven blindly with passion, they will not get it. I remember countless things I did that would bend most peoples comfort zone real quick. Most people want to keep one foot in worldly security and one in their passions. Some people call this wisdom. I pray I never get wise and will continue to follow my dreams blindly. Walter
----------
walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

thechangingcolors
4 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:09 AM

i would get a job at mcdonalds on the side, but i dont even have to worry about that right now as im in highschool and my parents dont even want me to have a job so long as im passing from school. so i dont even have to worry about doing anything for a living for atleast a few more months but yeah at some point i will have to get a 'real' job, but im still going to spend all my free time practicing harmonica and trying to find people to play with. and i would also play other instruments. im actually pretty decent at the guitar and im getting a little better at playing the recorder too. im learning to sing and i will probably try to learn to play percussion and then do a lot of that while playing the harmonica.

If i find a way to make money as a musician then i will just work a part time job at mcdonalds =). and if i dont ill probaly work full time or do side jobs or whatever. maybe i should live in a tent anyway, homefulness promotes belief in capitalism and materialism and such and im not sure im really even all for that stuff..but aw well i guess.

when i start learning some good songs ill probably post a youtube video of them or something. i was on harp tabs yesterday and i took a glance at the tabs for the vocal melody of people are strange by the doors. i went outside and sat down and figured out how to play it pretty much from remembering the song. i think it actually sounds really cool and i might try to fancy it up a little and then try to do a rendition of the solo by ear. and just thinking about doing all of this is alot of fun..

Jim Rumbaugh
405 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:20 AM

Another old quote:
The best way to make a million dollars as a musician is to start with two million.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001

kudzurunner
2319 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:31 AM

Actually, without hijacking this thread, it might be worth responding in a different way, by asking a question on which each of us might weigh in: How many months or years had you been playing--and I'm addressing the assembled crowd here--before you first made money with the harp?

I had my first legitimate gig, NOT for money, at the Congers (NY) Community Center in June 1975, 8 months after purchasing my first harp. It was an amplified duo gig: me and Lloyd Fricker.

I'm pretty sure that my first gig for money was in the fall of my freshman year at college, in my first band. I'd been playing harp and guitar for about a year at that point.

I wasn't very good, but the point was, I was making money at it. I was the least experienced member of the band.

About the money that professionals make: I'm quite sure that Kim Wilson ends up with thousands of dollars in his pocket when he gets home.

When I was touring with Satan and Adam between 1991 and 1998, I wasn't a full-timer, but we averaged (as a duo) $500 + rooms for club gigs and $1000-1500 for festival gigs. Of course agency and management took 25% of that, and we were paying gas and some meals. But when we went on the road for a week, I'd come home with $1000-1500 in my wallet. I never made a full-time living at it, though.

I'd heartily endorse Greg's comment: you may make a little extra spending money here and there, and you may do that within a year, as I did, although it will take both talent and hard, regular practice to do that. But if you're talking about actually making a life at it, be prepared for years of operating at a loss. Be prepared either to be poor, or to subsidize your musicking with some other employment.

Please weigh in, guys. How long had you been playing the harp before you had your first paying gig--club, street, or otherwise?

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 6:34 AM

thechangingcolors
5 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:32 AM

i dont need to make a million dollars i need to make enough to feed myself and have a couple different keys of harmonicas and maybe a tamborine and a recorder.ill borrow other peoples guitar. and anyway recorders are a really cheap intrument,so i could have one no matter how poor i was, like a good quality one costs five or six dollars, and lasts for years and years. and i hope to eventually be pretty good recorder player too, although of course my main focus will always be the harmonica but there is something really cool about the simplicity of a recorder as it is just a whistle attatched to a tube with holes in it, but if you know how to do all the notes you can play the chromatic scale across two octaves with it..

also the thing is im not just into blues. i want to do alot of blues harmonica but thats not all i will be doing, im just as eager to play rock, folk, classical music, and i would like to play jazz too but that might be kindof hard without overblows but thats where the recorder comes in for now. =). im kind of new to all these other kinds of music though. i always use to listen to just rock, and some classical music. only just recently have i been trying to listen to as many genres of music as possible.

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 6:35 AM

Jaybird
221 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:49 AM

I make money every day with my harmonica.

I play for tips at a truck stop. I "work" 1 to 3 hours a day. Most of the time I am just practicing riffs or playing the same song over and over.

I make from $15 to $30 per hour. I have no other income.

IMHO this is the best way to make money with the harp. I don't have to search for gigs. I have no band members to split the money with.

Last Edited by on Feb 28, 2011 7:47 AM

thechangingcolors
6 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:55 AM

there you go jaybird thats good advice right there too, that sounds really cool. but also the thing is i think i am actually going to contribute something valuable to the music world, first as an awesome harmonrica player but also im going to bring back the music that i love most, bluesy psychedelic rock from the sixties, like cream, the yardbirds, the thirteenth floor elevators etc. im trying to form a band right now im calling it 'psychedelic apple sauce'. the bass player dude is practically on board already and he says he knows a dude who plays the drums.

PaulM
117 posts
Feb 12, 2011
7:06 AM

I started playing two years ago and quickly learned to play very simple accompaniment to soft / classic rock songs. After I'd been playing for about a month, a friend called and invited me to play with his band at a local biker bar. I was scared to death, but went anyway. I din't play well, but I don't think any of the bikers noticed. That inspired me to buy better harps and to begin practicing regularly. A few months after that initial experience, the band's harp player received orders to CA, so the band invited me, and my wife on keyboards, to join them for all gigs. As for pay, well our personal goal is to play music throughout the area, have lots of fun doing it and earn enough money to sustain the band's equipment habit. We've managed to do that over the last two years and it's been fun. Our most regular, and best paying gig feeds the band whatever we want off of the restauraunt menu, provides a free bar and at least $200. If we have a big night he gives us more. We've played some privat outdoor parties that paid a little more, but $200/5 doesn't pay the rent, but it does keep the band fairly well equipped. This is the perfect situation for us and I feel incredibly lucky to have had the opportunity to participate in this experience.

We have discussed trying to go more professional and to travel around the region playing, but three of us are on AD in the military and the 4th lives up in Charleston. It's just very difficult to practice enough to achieve a fully professional level of performance, so we're probably going to maintain our amateur status and enjoy the ride while it lasts.

Although I haven't asked, my analysis of the local live music scene leads me to believe that bands are struggling covering their operating costs. The only possible exception that I see are the guys doing the solo variety acts in the restaurant / small clubs.

jawbone
397 posts
Feb 12, 2011
7:40 AM

Hey Paul - you mention that your wife plays keyboard - that sounds like the perfect duo setup to me. If one or both sing you have everything you need.
If you don't sing - start!! You can!!!
My 2 cents - stay as a money making hobby - much more relaxed.
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!

Miles Dewar
721 posts
Feb 12, 2011
7:46 AM

I have been playing over a few years now and never had a money paying club gig. Some jam sessions put up a tip jar and the jammers get to split it. Busking definately isn't as good as a steady job.......will you Busk ALL your life everyday? Will you busk enough not just to "Float" by week to week? Are you able to make enough money to set money aside into SAVINGS. I don't know anyone that can busk 10 hors a day.

It's a hard world without SAVINGS. If your job doesn't allow for it, LOOK ELSWHERE. Schooling or training is a start.
----------------------------------------------------

Me and my guitar buddy have this discussion ALL the time.

He says he wants to just travel and be able to live off his music.

I just tell Jim that's what Hobos are.
-----------------
Listening to a lot of the BIG harmonica players out there talking about money has pretty much made me scratch that idea.

If you are going to make a SOLID living on it, you MUST be on a level above or compareable to Jason Ricci, Rick Estrin, Kim Wilson, Rod Piazza, Charlie Musselwhite.

Is that Possible for you? I say that 95% of us on this forum will NEVER achieve that kind of "Success".
--------------
I'm not sure if Muddy Waters even made much money. I think a lot of them got ripped off by Phil and Leonard Chess.

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 7:48 AM

PaulM
119 posts
Feb 12, 2011
7:46 AM

My wife does some accompaniment, but couldn't carry the band on her voice. I would give a small body part if I could sing. I have a deep monotonic voice. People LOL when I sing. Our lead singer is very talented and pretty accommodating, but there are a few songs I want us to play, but he doesn't want to sing them.

kudzurunner
2320 posts
Feb 12, 2011
8:03 AM

Jaybird: I'm impressed. You've called our collective bluff, in a sense. You're making steady money with the harp, out on the raw edge beyond the "organized music world" of clubs, managers, agents, festivals, cover charges, music schools, etc. And you're doing it solo. That takes guts.

But it's a tough row to hoe. If you get the flu, there's not a lot to fall back on. Hand to mouth works up to a point, but there's nothing romantic about it, as I bet you'd agree. Most buskers have a CD for sale; something working for them.

Still, what you're doing is a variation on what the Delta blues guys did--guys like Honeyboy Edwards, who did a lot of busking.

Have you thought about using YouTube to advertise yourself AS a busker? Get somebody to film and upload you in a way that puts you in the best light as a player and performer, then let people know in the video description and/or title where they can find you? I'm not saying you'll draw destination tourists, but hey: if the members of this forum knew where to look for you, you might actually get some company, and a few more big tips.....

jawbone
398 posts
Feb 12, 2011
8:07 AM

Hey Paul - I'm not talking "Band" - just the two of you - it's easier to book duo's than bands. Less money for the venue but more for you.
Don't give up on your singing - my inspiration comes from Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Chris Christofferson, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash and more - you can't say they have "the voice" but they got something.
My wife cringed when I told her I was going to start singing now she tells me she likes my voice ahead of some professionals (see above list)
(she does not give out empty compliments, well, to me)
It's blues, for heavens sake, just belt it out and sing with confidence.
OK - I'm done being a motivational speaker - back to your regular programming!!! ;-)
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!

PaulM
120 posts
Feb 12, 2011
8:22 AM

Jaybird. I like your independent spirit/approach.

jawbone, She sings background vocals and occasionally does lead on on Angels from Montgomery.

I slightly misrepresented myself, I do sing "Love Stinks" in that song, but I'm sure it's out of key. Maybe I'll follow your advice and start singing in the wood shed. Thanks.

Jaybird
222 posts
Feb 12, 2011
8:29 AM

Adam: I should mention that I have no family to support. I have been living in the desert in an RV for the last 15 years. That's two steps above a tent and sleeping bag. (living in a car, being the intermediate step)

I don't consider this as "hand to mouth" living. In case of emergency, I also have some savings from my previous career.

I don't care to advertise myself as a busker. If forum members were to accompany me, as you suggest, I'd only have to split the tips with them. Sorry guys.

I bought my first harmonica about 5 1/2 years ago.

Watch Jaybird play harp!

Michael Rubin
88 posts
Feb 12, 2011
8:40 AM

I give harmonica lessons, they include career counseling. For $45 per hour, I will teach you how I make a living at harmonica.

Only partially kidding.

For most of my adult life I have made 50% to 100% of my living off of the harmonica. Here are some thoughts off of the top of my head, they are no way complete.

You know the old adage if you can make a living doing anything but harmonica, do that instead? Basically, making a living at harp is so difficult that unless your soul cries out in pain when doing any other kind of work, as mine does, do something else.

I have made a living in multiple ways:

One or two bands busting behind gigging all over the region while selling CD's and doing session work on the sly. Every time I tried to tour outside the region I lost money. I think it can be done, but it is HARD.

Getting picked up by a big time situation to play harp but be at their beck and call when it comes to places to live and your time.

Teaching harp while gigging a couple of times a week and recording sessions a couple of times a month, the latter two for rent money.

I would recommend door number three. It is what I have been doing for the last 5 years or so and it is so much more conducive to a happy healthy lifestyle.

It seems to me there are two types of harp players making money at harp. Those who get picked up by a group with popular appeal that people want to spend money on and those who are great business people. Most of the time they are one and the same.

I am not really a singer. I love singing and Adam tells me he likes my sense of timing, (thanks Adam) but I would likely never be able to earn a living as a frontman. So I am a sideguy. I have spent years in clubs looking for frontmen that have that "thing" and then convincing them they need me and then busting behind trying to turn our band into a success.

Getting them to hire me and then doing what I can to "manage" the band, sometimes without them noticing it, are all business skills. Often I have doubled as the booking agent.

Although I have been a member of countless headlining bands, some of whom you might have heard of, I have only really gotten paid by one situation. I was in the orchestra of a Broadway show and before we did Broadway, we did Houston and New Haven. I do not know how they found me in Austin, TX, as I was not in the union. But I had around 5 people tell me they were the ones who referred me to them. That's called networking. They told me they would only need me for Houston and there would be no way I was going to New York. I quit my job, (part time at Sheraton's 800 number), put all my stuff in storage and schmoozed the decision makers, not constantly, just at the right times, when everyone was celebrating. The quitting of my job is called buying in. I decided they would hire me and I paved the way for the universe to allow it to happen. My Mom happened to be in town the day they hired me for Broadway. That was a great moment.

Nowadays I advertise in the local version of the Village Voice for lessons and I have a website and Youtube lessons. I always carry a business card. I have written a book and produced a sampler CD of the many bands I am in for extra money. I listen carefully to sentences like "I've always wanted to learn to play harmonica" and present the card.

When I was in bands trying to make it I sometimes had part time day jobs, sometimes not. But the reality was living as a single person in their twenties and early thirties is much less expensive than my current situation, 41 years old, married, kid, mortgage. Back then, I could squeak on $1500 a month. Now I could squeak on $3500 month but things are a whole lot cooler if I make a couple of thousand more.

My attitude has always been you can do anything you want if you try. Kim Wilson, Estrin, Oskar, Mickey Raphael and the hundreds of other people who've made a living through harmonica are just people, like you. But be prepared to work VERY hard both at becoming a pro level player and at the business side.
Michael Rubin
Michaelrubinharmonica.com

jawbone
399 posts
Feb 12, 2011
9:16 AM

Getting back to Adam's question "How long"
I think I was at about the 8 - 9 month.
I had played with a bunch of guys at a Coffee Shop, then at the end I got $20 - I didn't think I was going to get anything, so I was happy.
Then a few months later a blues band hired me to play with them at a gig (I probably wasn't ready, as evidenced by the $20 they gave me) but...
I'm thinking "I've made money playing a harmonica!!!!"
how cool is that!!!!
In a little shadow box that I built I have...
My Grandfather's Echo Harmonica,
My first BluesBand Harmonica,
My first BluesBand Harmonica that I played
with Curley Bridges the first time, (Little Red Rooster)
And those two $20 bills.

I guess I'm a romantic...

edit - all this was about 9 years ago
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If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 9:19 AM

Buzadero
727 posts
Feb 12, 2011
9:48 AM

Don't get a job at McDonald's. The best job that a struggling musician or artist can have is a job at Starbucks. Many do it. Starbucks can give you hours that allow you to stay out late at night and come in to work later in the day. More importantly, they have a policy that you only need to carry 20 hours and the full benefit package kicks in.

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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot

kudzurunner
2321 posts
Feb 12, 2011
10:17 AM

Several years ago, Jason distributed a remarkable document that is completely relevant to the present conversation. I'm republishing it here. Please pay attention. What he's sharing is hard-won wisdom from the trenches of the working harp-guy's life
____________________________________________________

“ STAY IN COLLEGE”

(A brief guide to proactive, mid level, success in the music business for most bands)
By Jason Ricci

I informed harmonica legend Mark Hummel 15 years ago that I was intending on quitting college and trying to be a professional harmonica player. After I told him the news I asked him rather pretentiously as only a pot smoking, long haired, eighteen year old can: “How do I get where your at?” I wasn’t asking about his harp playing, I was asking about the business. He looked down at me and in a sort of concerned, sympathetic maybe even sad way said: “Stay in College.” It wasn’t the answer I wanted at all but it was the right one. Because in short, if you’re going to do this, you’re going to do it... If not you won’t. It’s very simple really, people like to complicate it (especially me) and that’s what this whole article is about sort of. So When Mark said to me: “Stay in College” he really just gave me the best, safest and shortest answer for me to later ignore if I should choose to do so and I did. This is my answer to that same question. Please keep in mind that through out this written lengthy, complex formula for musical success, all I’m really saying is: “STAY IN COLLEGE!”

I know a lot of players more musically talented than myself who have failed or are failing at making a living playing music while I enjoy the fruits of some form of success. Likewise everyone knows all the pop stars “they love to hate” that don’t deserve their sudden commercial success and wonder how they could do so well while so much raw talent goes unnoticed! Everywhere you go you hear stories about the guy in town who plays JUST like Eric Clapton, or the woman who is a combination of Janis and Bonnie Raitt. Usually they’re between 30 to 50 years old. Often and more lately it’s the “prodigy/virtuoso nine year old who’s better than S.R.V.. All of these characters haunt every city our band travels too and all of these enigmas for whatever reason never got that “Big Break” that they so deserve! Some of our audience members talk about these people or bands as if they have already died with this sad reverence and tragic mystique. The musician/band in question is almost never there were told because their so fed up with the business that they stay home most the time and never come out to see other bands but when they do...WATCH OUT! Because they’ll blow you off the stage! “There ARE actually those who never get their due” for no good reason, some times it has to do with their art/music being too ahead of their time or their audience too small but more often it has to do with drugs, booze, a problematic personality, a romantically involved woman or a man, or most often a general and genuine problem with laziness/complacency. Contrary to popular belief this business is NOT “Money for nothing and chicks for free” It’s a lot of hard work. Most of those musicians who don’t totally suck and some who do will actually succeed on some level in the music business for some time if they really want it and are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to achieve that success. The truth is most are not willing to give up the comforts of home, the comforts of being able to pay for a home, many will not give up their drugs and booze for their music they simply love the drugs more whether they admit this to themselves or not. Many will not end a marriage that challenges or threatens their dream, many will enter into relationships that do just that while they are just starting to achieve success. Those who really want to make it will not need to read this but will read it any way but they will succeed with or without this or any other tutorial! Those who will fail in this business will read this and still fail at a career in music, then they and their friends will place blame all over the musical map for this. Jealousy, anger, doubt and fear will infect their lives and the lives of those around them. Unless they truly are that one rare “Misunderstood genius” or are truly mentally or physically ill or taking care of some one who is or all of the above no one should have any one to blame other than themselves.

Sadly sometime in the early eighties or sooner the big record label’s formula of the built in booking agency, manager, publicist, and artist development team became less than profitable and started adapting to the times. Bastards. Gone are the days of the record company dispatched talent scout who traverses the small coffee shops and bars of America in search of the eccentric, but poignant heroin addicted, unknown, lyricist/whatever, who with some grooming, ear training, management, methadone, the right band and most importantly money, maybe, might possibly, perhaps, could turn a profit for the label after a few albums aimed at the right demographic, while in the mean time and for the sake of art of course they perform “real music” at a profit loss for the record label. Can we blame them? The Music business is a business, just like a roofing company or a golf course. Would you hire a person like the guy described above to work for you? There are some very fucked up things about the music business that I can’t change but I can change how I approach them because that is all I can do. This piece of writing is an attempt of mine to share with you all, especially the musicians amongst you, what I have learned along the way...I’m as you probably know NOT a big star, or a millionaire...but I do own my own home, van, tour all over the world, have a record deal, a booking agency, some P.R. people and pay my three band members a weekly salary that hopefully soon will increase. In short I make my living playing music (harmonica no less) while simultaneously advancing my “name/career” hopefully ensuring a somewhat stable future. Am I lucky? Yes! Did I ever meet a talent scout? No? No one ever handed me anything, not even a single gig, I had to work to get every harmonica lick, lyric, band member, gig, booking agent, manager, publicist, record label, the band and I ever had or didn’t! I’ve been at/after this business full time for fifteen years now mostly very seriously. I have been playing for twenty years. My buddy Dan Gage says: ”It’ not years it’s hours,” that’s true for everything! I have made a lot of mistakes and have coveted some piss poor u7attitudes and belief systems based in fear and jealousy along the way. I’m here to tell you how I did it, I don’t have all the answers and much of this business REALLY is “Who you know” and being in the “Right place at the right time!” I hate to burst the bong bubbles of all you local guitar/harmonica champs sitting at home on Saturday watching Stevie Ray or Kim Wilson on Austin City Limits but unfortunately and fortunately (depending on your outlook) most of this music biz is just plain hard WORK!

Before we go much further I should make a list of things you SHOULD NOT DO if you want to be taken seriously by the industry for the length of a John Popper harp riff this in some cases will include a very important and intimidating word SACRIFICE.

1.) Don’t become addicted to or do any hard drugs or maybe if your the band leader ANY drugs! Nobody, not a booking agent, not a club, not a record company wants the liability of you not showing up, not being able to perform, being difficult, or much more dying on their hands! The 60’s and 70’s are gone, very rarely does any one in our industry knowingly invest in addicts or alcoholics any more! It’s not wise for them no matter how good you play/sing/write. Those days are gone. If Janis Joplin, or Jimi Hendrix were just breaking the scene here in 2007 they probably wouldn’t get signed just based on their substance abuse. This goes obviously much further than just your potential investors. You will not be capable (I know first hand!) of expending the necessary time, energy and sober thought into your career if you are inebriated, trying to score all the time, going to jail, dope sick, hung over, etc. Most rock stars these days and some of ole’, that die of addiction related causes developed their addictions after they had won/earned their place already. If you think this might be your problem get help. I did.... I ended up doing a year in jail over all that stuff. Music is the least of your problems if you’re hooked on anything serious. I’m now Nine years clean and sober and my life is great.
2.) Don’t be an asshole! Don’t tell clubs, festivals, labels, managers or anyone your better than their favorite or best selling acts or even that you don’t like them. This is all about you not them! Don’t threaten people or give ultimatums, don’t lie about how many people you can put in the club if you can’t. Don’t tell booking agents your better than anyone or everyone on their roster...They don’t care and your probably not. It’s not ALL about music a lot of it has to do with how effectively you can sell/bring your music to people! Don’t be competitive with other bands. Don’t pester people; however, do be persistent. Don’t name drop too much especially if you don’t really know that person all that well or at all! Just be honest and be nice. You catch more bees with honey.
3.) Do not marry young or marry someone who does not want you to play music for a living! If you do and you want a music career more than a husband or wife get a divorce so you don’t hate them forever and blame them for your failures/lost dreams. Leaving home a lot is a big part of this job especially the first 5 years maybe rest of your life! Not making much money is to be expected in most cases, operating at a loss is par for the course as well. Do you have some one in your life that will support your dreams of becoming a star on some level while you are away 319 days a year and making very little sometimes losing money? I do... his name is Brady.... I’m lucky, but if Brady weren’t here I would have done it alone because I want this no matter what. I Thank God and him here for his support along the way! Music as a career hasn’t been easy for Brady and I or almost any couple we know! Many fulltime musicians rack up past marriages like booking agencies and ex-drummers. It’s a constant game of give and take.... Sacrifice music for love, sacrifice love for music...It helps if the one you love/marry has their own dream to keep them occupied while your gone which naturally comes with experiences of their own so they can empathize with your plight and motives. Also don’t have kids if you can’t afford them on a musician’s salary. If you already have them, love them, stay home more and consider waiting till their grown for your career in music.
4.) Don’t expect your friends that have “Made it” to help you to the top! It’s impossible for them on more levels than they probably have time to tell you about! Once you take your own steps out the door you’ll start to understand why. If I write this clearly enough by the time your done reading this you’ll realize a little more as well. It is good to know people and have famous friends but it is hardly a ticket to the top of any genre of music. I can put in all the good words in the world to my record company for my friends but if their not touring, selling records, and generally being proactive in their own careers it will mean NOTHING and could even HURT ME!

Below are some additional excuses the band and I hear frequently from musicians and their friends and family. If you continue reading I will later dismiss these excuses or solve most of these. Some of these may be valid but again fall under the heading of “sacrifice” and/or how bad you want this.

1.) My band members all have regular jobs and won’t leave town. (Solution later)
2.) My Wife/Husband/Boy/Girlfriend won’t let me. (Solved earlier)
2.) The clubs won’t pay me enough to leave town. I can make more at home. (Solution Later)
3.) I just need a decent recording first. (You might not unless you really suck. Musicians are often perfectionists who will split hairs over a recording or a tune for years or more until it’s entirely outdated and antiquated.)
4.) Gas prices are too high. (They can be. Tough it out till it does not matter.)
5.) I need to move to the RIGHT city, where do I move? (I hear this one a lot. This is mostly a myth. It just helps if you don’t live in some state where you have to drive through the same towns every time you leave in order to get anywhere such as any peninsula like Florida or Maine. The Northwest can be tough as well. The more directions you can go when leaving town the more easy and profitable your future touring will be because you wont have to skip over markets that just booked you last week or last month and can’t have you back just so soon. It can be a plus to live some where like L.A., New York or any big city as there are often more players to choose from but it’s not necessary. There are amazing players everywhere. You may be one! In Big cities local gigs are harder to get and pay less. If you plan your tours right you can have four or more players in your band from all over the country! There is no city with a self-supporting GREAT blues scene, or a GREAT punk scene, what have you. Make it happen on the road. That’s what the labels want and what you’ll probably have to do at some time to make a name for yourself or the possibility of any steadily growing amount of money.)
6.) There’s not enough clubs. (So far there is for most of us driven enough to drive. Get creative look at those touring guides! Steal gigs and tour ideas off of other people’s websites. Call and ask around. Stop complaining, just get on the road after a few trips you’ll get some new gigs and some private parties as well! If your going to be off a night any way open for another band, play somewhere that’s never had a band before for less money than usual or for the “Door”. Sad but true in my experience this is what it takes the first year or more out. It’s hard and it may break you, your band and your bank account a few or more times before success. Eventually you will have to stop selling yourself short you will know when this time is upon you because you will be able to get the prices and clubs you want in many cases without asking.)
7.) I’m too old. (This may apply in the pop world but most other genres, rock included, don’t weigh as heavily on an artists age or image as you may think, I could name a few but lets not. It helps in any genre of music to look good. Make the most of what you have to separate yourself from your audience. You don’t have to be fancy, punk, slick, or sexy but it helps to be memorable and have a presence. Do it your own way. Get jiggy wit it.)
8.) I don’t have a van. (This is a legit but temporary problem, you will have to find a way to get one or at least a Good S.U.V. with a trailer.)
9.) I don’t have a booking agency/agent. (You don’t need one and probably won’t get one till you’ve proven your profitability, reliability and rockability first on your own! Read on, much more coming on this.)
10.) I need a record deal first. (Record deals these days even on a major label can mean nothing. They don’t generally do whatever you’re thinking they do for you.... from fame and fortune to just simply gigs a lot/most all this shit is up to you. Of course a deal can help tons it has and will for us, but have you done all you can while your waiting for your contract to be faxed?) See below!
11.) The side man complaint: No one will hire me to go on tour. (Here’s your game plan: Go to jams, make business cards, keep practicing, try to sit in with well known bands without being too pushy, check the papers, the net, email bands, get a demo CD together, stay in touch with the industry: who’s quitting? who got fired? etc. Call, mail, and email: labels, booking agencies and management companies and let them know your available if a band needs some one...Learn to sing and front a band and start your own band if your tired of waiting to get a job.)
12.) I have a mental illness or a physical disability. (This is a legitimate reason I know of for blaming your musical failure on! This IS truly tragic and often very, very sad and painful to watch. For the actual person it must be unbearable. Ironically many of these folks have great attitudes and find something else fulfilling to do with their lives for pleasure and money while still playing out on weekends and actually really do BLOW AWAY MANY OF THE NATIONAL ACTS. I have met a few beautiful musicians incapacitated and unable to tour because of mental or physical illness and my heart goes out to them!
13.) I have kids. Another valid and legit reason to put your music career on the back burner for a while or at least get advice outside this forum. If you don’t have a double income household with one parent that can spend time with the kid/ kids just wait! Perfect your craft in the mean time and pursue something more stable than a music career. One of the most intelligent and talented performers and people I know is doing just this now. Her name is Gina Fox and she’s not only smart and talented but wise and loving enough to care for her child and accept with dignity, responsibility and grace her former decision to have him. She would probably be a star now had it turned out different but I have no doubt she’ll be rocking in two years when he turns eighteen. The kid’s cool too cause his Mom knows what’s up. Go Mike!

“NOBODY WANTS YOU UNTIL YOU DON”T NEED THEM”

This was the single most important/miserable/frustrating/empowering thing I have ever learned about most of this business. Here is a list of people who for the most part don’t want you until you don’t really need them:

1.) Record labels
2.) Booking Agents
3.) Managers
4.) Festivals/clubs

- RECORD LABELS
Let me explain: Again this is a business... What business wants to invest their time and money into a product that has little or no proven monetary return? What label wants to spend thousands or millions of dollars on an artist that no one has heard of that hasn’t sold any records on their own, that has no track record of real touring yet? Well you may be thinking of a few that have, do, or will...They do exist but only for one in a million artists. You may offer me now the classic Brittany Spears equation or whatever and you would be RIGHT to do so however this is not trying to solve your problem. If you want to be the next Brittany forget everything I have said and stop reading cause you’ll probably just have to meet the right person at the right time, but if you want to be the next Jason Ricci or even better the next Stevie Ray or Dave Mathews listen up I have some ideas you should consider!
We all know much of today’s music has little sincerity, little substance, little originality and in some cases very few actually played not programmed musical instruments...True. Get over it... People say, “We’re going to SEE a band tonight not HEAR one”. Most people think/thought Brittney looked good...Most pop stars look good. It’s just a fact. Giant Record companies today can literally place almost any good looking person/people in the spotlight and with the right amount of money and timing market this person overnight as a hit until within weeks they often are. It is not the record company’s fault. True they usually dispose of the said star in a year or two in favor of some newer model who’s voice and/or look resembles that of whatever rival artist’s single is trend setting the #1 slot on the Billboard charts, but it is done in a simple supply and demand fashion every day. The pop charts are usually just a conveyer belt of virtual prefabricated market proven cliché’s disguised as melody’s, lyrics and beats that the average person can listen to while talking on their cell phone and following their G.P.S. navigation system to work. What music is cool... is whatever they tell us is cool and if we buy it we tell them back: “You were right!” So lets stop blaming them and get proactive in our own lives for a minute. Speaking of “proactive” in the truly eloquent words of P. Diddy from the Proactive Acne Cream commercial let us: “ Moisturize our situation.” Get out there and sell some records, be sure you keep track and can prove how many you sold too! Even small numbers (Thousands) will impress small and some larger Record companies out there, they want to make money, if you can prove to them that good music will make money all the better but most of the time that burden lies on you. Dave Mathews, Phish, and Blues Traveler had thousands of fans, gigs and sold records under their belts before they ever had a solid deal in a lawyer’s office. Don’t expect God or Sony to answer your Major Label prayers overnight based on the fact that you’ve been doing this fifty years, or that your only 19 years old and play better than Stevie Ray, or that everyone at the local open mic in Kalamazoo, Michigan tells you your so much better than whatever person they heard on the radio! “Faith without works is dead” and you’ll need both where your going. Excuses are usually just excuses, you will need gigs though...here’s how to get them.

-Clubs/festivals

Remember: “NOBODY WANTS YOU UNTIL YOU DON”T NEED THEM”

You’re going to have to make some sacrifices. You will not get the money the big bands at those clubs get your 1st, 5th or sometimes 20th time in the door if you don’t get people out. In the biz we call it “Asses in Seats.” You will have to make the best CD you can with whatever budget you have, put it in a folder with an 8/10” photo and any press/awards you have managed to get so far and mail them to all the clubs in your target tour area. Then you will have to call the club on the right day.... KNOW THE CLUB OWNERS NAME! Their are various magazines/books/websites out their that have radio/TV/club/festival/press info in them for every state in the U.S., some even tell you the capacity of the club, type of music usually booked, and time to call. Get those! Once you get the Club owner on the phone...don’t be insulted if he has never heard of you or has not listened to your music! You may have to call at the right time every Tuesday for 6 months or more and send multiple press kits before they ever even listen to your CD! Their not arrogant (most aren’t), just busy and there are thousands of you compared to hundreds, if that, of them. Be patient, persistent, polite etc. You may have to find another venue in the same town who will book you, then approach the better club later after you have built an audience. Again, name-dropping will get you know where. What good is it to the club if you are best buds with Walter Trout if no one has ever heard of you? If you really ARE best buds with a band that does well at the club call them up and ask them to put in a good word for you. I have a few friends I help out this way all the time because they help themselves. You’re not asking for the world or even the gig just for your friend to say: “That dude can play!” Still your money will be low at first. You will have to take this money and like it for a while until your better known. As you do better be sure you up your money appropriately so you don’t get stuck at that price or deter actual booking agencies from becoming interested in you! Remember this excuse from earlier: “My band members all have regular jobs and won’t leave town”. Book the gigs first then find the players. This way you have money to offer them instead of far-fetched plans and dreams. Why should any one hop in a van with you and leave their Husband, Wife, job, cat, dog or ferret behind without some kind of pay agreement? If the club asks you “Is the same band you have on the CD you sent?” You lie and say yes and explain after the gig or you can say “mostly” if you can match even one guy. I don’t usually condone dishonesty ever but we don’t ask club owners what waitresses they’ve hired or if they have the same bartender as last time do we? Find the best players you can. Reliable nice guys are often better than talented difficult ones. Some day if you’re blessed you may find talented, nice, reliable guys! If you got the gigs the players will come...Generally the better the money your making the better your band. You may have to find some kids with not a whole lot going on to back you up as your buddy Joe who plays bass like George Porter isn’t likely to give up his dentist gig to go make 350.00 a week with you the first year till you guys hit it big (500.00 a week). You hire whom you can until the right players fall in place and if someone leaves you keep going. There’s an amazing amount of bands looking for great players out there that are actually working and vice versa. Be one! It helps to book the bigger money gigs, whatever those may be, FIRST then the smaller ones. We call the big dates (festivals, private parties, high paying clubs on weekends etc.) “Anchor dates” get those first then do your best to fill in the weekdays or empty slots. You may have to stay with friends/fans, drive overnight or sleep in shitty hotels along the way some of your band members will quit because of this eventually, don’t give up, there’s more guys out there, but do your best to “Keep Your Boys Happy”. On some tours or in the beginning of your bands formation, it is not uncommon and should be expected that after gas, hotels, and van repairs that your sidemen will actually make MORE money than you the band leader! Your pay off is your name on the marquee, in the papers on the record cover, in the ads etc. Eventually you will earn more if not much more than them. You are building a reputation and making your name nationally this is more important than money in the long run as it actually translates to money. Additionally this is really just job security as you can quit playing for five years then come back and many folks will remember you. This is not as easy a task for a sidemen. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE BOSS WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY! Tell your boys what you will pay them ahead of time, so you won’t argue later, if there is extra and you can afford it give them more or buy them dinner etc do it. Do not let your biz be a democracy! Everything else can be, but not the money! So pick up the phone.... Keep track of who you called, how many times and when. Don’t get discouraged, be patient and persistent let the clubs know how much you love them and how cool they are. You need them more than they need you. Expect to put in eight hours or more a day on the phone and computer. It’s smart when you start planning to put your band on the road to sock a way a bunch of money. Booking, managing, and promoting your band in the beginning and later is a full time job. If you already have a day gig, save money then quit it. Treat your new job (Booking, managing, and promoting your band) like your old one (get up early etc.) and go to work. It may take you three to six months to book a year worth of tours and you’ll still be filling in the gaps along the way while driving from gig to gig! Starting to understand that word “sacrifice” yet? Most of your favorite working bands went through some form if not this exact formula long before they ever had a booking agent handling them full time. Some people have trust funds, or money coming from somewhere, or their Dad or Mom was or is a famous musician or record label employee/A&R person and they bypass this road. Good for them, I want to know I earned my place.

-Booking Agents

Don’t forget: “NOBODY WANTS YOU UNTIL YOU DON”T NEED THEM”

After you get your band on the road and making money all by yourself, all the (well, a few) booking agents you sent your package to and bugged to help book you will suddenly and magically start calling, and emailing out of the wood work! Why? Because you don’t need them now! Because now you are competing with them for money! The agents are trying to book their bands in the clubs and finding out you already have the date! After an agency/agent has called a few clubs a few times and found out you are playing there over and over you will gain their attention a little. You will really get their attention a lot when they find out you are making as much or more money than some, most or all their artists! So why would you even hire these guys? Two words: Mental Health! The guys will lighten your load hopefully! If they are talented they will book you in more places than you have been able to do yourself for more money. Ultimately if this is the case you will work less for more money, enjoy better travel routing, no longer have to send posters and contracts yourself, and be able to focus more on your music and life outside; which is how all this shit started any way right?

-Managers

“NOBODY WANTS YOU UNTIL YOU DON”T NEED THEM”

So now you got the band on the road, maybe you got an agent or two working for you...You find yourself playing the same old clubs over and over to the same crowds maybe a little bigger here or there, maybe a little more money here or there but basically, your tired and feel your spinning your wheels. Your friends at home are saying “Hey I make more than you playing weekends and doing acoustic shit during the week, subbing out for so and so and giving lessons” and they’re right! What happened to that “Making a name” part of this equation? Well first it takes time, second you WILL plateau here and they’re and third here’s the “who you know part”: The manager. The Manager knows the labels, the P.R. people and the booking agents. They will help you now to work smarter instead of harder since you have proven you can do the latter. The manager wants you because you are a tested worthwhile artistic and more importantly financial investment, so why don’t you need them? You don’t need them because you already have everything in place that matters to attract the investor’s (record label, agency etc.) interest, you want not NEED them because it saves you time (NOT MONEY) in getting your foot in the door! Believe it or not many record labels are actually pretty out of touch/clueless to who is doing well, making money, selling records, touring etc. You have already written them a million times politely explaining this but the manager’s name and word comes with some clout and experience. Managers can be great and they can be terrible! Obviously some kind of pro bono agreement is the best road here; the second best would be a small percentage, say 5% to 10% of the bands total earnings (Yours ultimately, not the sidemen). After you get the manager they can be a wonderful and effective liaison between you the label, the agency, between your band and you or the world at large. They can also help guide the record company, agent and you to make much smarter decisions concerning your music, money, time and travel. If you do not have a label or a booking agency, lots of gigs or a band yet, you really have no need at all for a manager at all as they have nothing to manage for you. We currently have no management. Many successful bands do not! It all comes down to how well you know your business, how much time you have and how good are your people skills.
So to wrap things up I hope you have learned: “NOBODY WANTS YOU UNTIL YOU DON”T NEED THEM!” I hope you have seen how this can be a wonderful and empowering thing as well! When you take control no one can ever say no to your career which most people will until you do. The “next time someone says: “I don’t like your CD.” You can ask them:” Do you like money?” They may still not want you but someone else will. ART IS SUBJECTIVE TO PEOPLE, MONEY ISN’T! Don’t let them tell you what to play! What is cool! What sells! Play your own music, whatever that is! If your band rocks than learn to rock at selling it so you don’t have to wait for that “Golden Opportunity”, “The Brass Ring”, or that “Right Place at the Right Time crap!” Make it happen at least in the mean time until you meet that one dude willing to put enough money into you to guarantee your undeserved, overnight, commercial success. Keep your integrity, learn the business, it’s mostly logic and common sense with a vague sense of reality. There are a lot of thieves and sharks out there too! Don’t get excited by big sounding offers, this is so hard! Do read carefully or have a lawyer friend explain things to you so you know just exactly how you are getting fucked.
In closing I would like to say SUCCESS IS AS SUBJECTIVE AS ART IS! What do you want from this business? If you want to play heavy metal style amplified nose flute with a polka band and crossover to the pop charts so you can do a duet with 50 cent on the tonight show, you might have to wait until the pop charts cater to heavy metal style amplified nose flute with polka bands. If you just want to play heavy metal style amplified nose flute with a polka band and make a buck here and there you can probably do so using the formula I gave you in this article. It is sad that sincere, soulful and intelligent music rarely makes lots of money and that is a fact. But most sincere, soulful and intelligent musicians realize this somewhere a long the yellow brick road and come to terms with the fact that they would rather play great music than make great money. I believe there will always be an audience for sincere, soulful intelligent music and thus there will always be some money...just often not enough of it. This is why we end up holding benefits for great players with long careers and influences that stretch decades or centuries beyond their lives, just to raise money for their medical bills or funerals. I have known a few players like that and I can tell you they wouldn’t have done it any other way. The reward that comes with doing what you want with your life, the way you want to do it, far surpass the rewards that money and commercial success can offer however nice. I believe you can take those rewards to the NEXT life with you unlike the money however nice. For me my first real success was when my hero’s told me they liked my music and playing, and I knew they meant it. I really succeeded the day I woke up and didn’t care if they liked it or not!

Honorable mention goes to the bands I know off the top of my head that currently could have written this article and more:
*Mark Hummel
*Nick Moss and the Flip Tops
*Motor City Josh and the Big Three
*Shawn Kellerman Band
*Jimmy Lloyd Rea and the Switch Masters
*Deguello

nacoran
3802 posts
Feb 12, 2011
11:04 AM

When you get ready to start playing for money, know how to market yourself. It's worth learning to make good quality recordings you can sell. Put stuff up on YouTube and join their Adsense program so people can sell ads on you videos. If your band starts getting regular gigs and the crowd is in to you, start selling T-Shirts (there are some sites that let people order T-Shirts and give you a cut. Give lessons. The more revenue streams you have the more likely you will be to make money. Find out about the local busking laws. You'll have to balance playing what you want versus playing what the crowd wants versus when the rent is due.

I don't try to make money playing music, but I listen to people who do... when they bring me my latte. :)

I have finally reached the barter stage. I'm bartering harmonica lessons for drum lessons, and if I could figure out how to sell songs I'd like to try my hand at that. I'm much better at writing lyrics than playing harmonica. :)

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Joe_L
1059 posts
Feb 12, 2011
11:18 AM

One thing people have neglected to mention. What happens when you are older?

Does Pinetop Perkins tour and gig well into his 90's, because he loves it or does he do it out of necessity?

Were guys like Sunnyland Slim, Louis Myers and the true innovators of their generation relaxing during their golden years in retirement? No. There were hustling gigs until the day they died. Some of those gigs paid $25 bucks a night.

When Muddy Waters died, he was living in a small house in suburban Chicago. He wasnt living in a wealthy neighborhood. He was living in a modest neighborhood that wasn't very well to do.

I'm not trying to shit on anyone's dreams. I suggest that you do research on the lifestyle of people who have walked in those shoes before you. That's the life you're likely to be living.

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The Blues Photo Gallery

waltertore
1054 posts
Feb 12, 2011
12:58 PM

I was playing harp for about 6 months and then got a paying gig. I was playing on a street corner by myself and a woman came up to me and said she would give me a couple hundred dollars and any liquor off the top shelf in her bar if I got a band behind me. I immediately did so. She was NJ mob connected and soon I was playing all over thinking it was blues but it was really kind of punk rock.......... My enthusiasm level always seemed to put me in higher levels of players/clubs than my ability. Skill wise I was primative but my heart was shining bright! Passion is a powerful thing I realize now in retrospect. There are a zillion great players out there but not so many that let it all hang out. Walter

PS: I realized I played 10-15 hours a day for at least 5 years when I started out. This was all I did. I ate what I could find, slept wherever I could, and had no other real interest in life.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 1:26 PM

waltertore
1055 posts
Feb 12, 2011
1:04 PM

Joe_L: You are right. I remember clifton chenier coming to play antones in austin. He was doing dialysis in his van (both legs amputated). I helped carry him in and out. The van stunk, he felt terrible, and when I asked him why he was playing he said he was broke. I also played with Lightning hopkins in NYC just before he died. He was suffering so bad from cancer he didn't even drink and couldn't finish the night. He too played because he was broke. The last time I saw sonny rhodes he was in bad health and he just kept saying "dam, walter tore a teacher. I should have gotten a career".

I feel blessed that I found special education as a passion when my full time music days were wanning. In just 6 years I will be able to retire with a decent pension. Most of my friends that are still in it full time are struggling to survive. We all choose our life. I try not to judge anyones but my own. Each of has our own truth with any given field and I avoid telling anyone going into music the bad stuff unless they ask. I try to support thier dream. Follow your dreams because yours can never be mine and mine never yours! Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 1:09 PM

Jim Rumbaugh
406 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:11 PM

In 1970 I was graduated high school, then saw Grand Funk Railroad. I bought a used bass guitar. In September I had my first paying gig. In 1974 I tried to play full time. It lasted about 6 months. Since then. it's been local weekend gigs.

I am SO glad I had those 6 months. I would encourage ANYONE to try it, but try it with an EXIT PLAN. A few years ago I had a gig with "Fletch" Fletcher, the drummer for Billy Ray Cyrus. He told great stories about their hey-day and tours. Today he's making pizzas.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001

waltertore
1058 posts
Feb 12, 2011
6:25 PM

Jim: I have run into lots of guys over the years that said they are giving it x amount of time and if it doesn't work, they will get out and do such and such. My experience was there was no entry or exit plan. The drive came to play music and I followed it blindly. When the drive fizzled to do it full time another door opened for me. The few things that I did conciously - get my tubes tied in my early 20's, tell my wife on our first meeting that music was my #1, and never bought a house. Kids, houses, and wives that want nice things, will kill a full time music dream quick :-) Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2011 6:30 PM

thechangingcolors
7 posts
Feb 12, 2011
11:16 PM

"My experience was there was no entry or exit plan. The drive came to play music and I followed it blindly. When the drive fizzled to do it full time another door opened for me."

i believe nature tries to help those of us that try to live in the moment and appreciate the aesthetics of the world around us. and i know that the universe wants me to play the harmonica because i will create something new and beautiful with it, or atleast discover a part of reality previously unheard..

thechangingcolors
8 posts
Feb 12, 2011
11:18 PM

thanks for all the comments BTW, i have enjoyed reading all of them-mostly good advice.

boris_plotnikov
444 posts
Feb 13, 2011
6:32 AM

I'm trying to live playing harmonica, but actually I'm not far from being completely poor. Thanks god my parents give me my flat and my car. I still have to teach environmental science twice a week and teach harmonica.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.

HarpNinja
1103 posts
Feb 13, 2011
7:38 AM

I've never seriously entertained playing harmonica for a living ever. I like my day-job too much, there are too many benefits to staying there, and it makes harmonica playing 100% fun.

I doubt most people who make a living playing harmonica actually don't play much harmonica relative to the amount of work in staying employed as a musician as it appears to be a 24/7/365 job.
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Mike
Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas
Updated 2/1/11

waltertore
1059 posts
Feb 13, 2011
7:59 AM

HarpNinja:

"I doubt most people who make a living playing harmonica actually don't play much harmonica relative to the amount of work in staying employed as a musician as it appears to be a 24/7/365 job."

this is definetely true for all musicians except the 1% club and in the blues you can probably count this club of players on your 10 fingers and maybe a few toes. That is what eventually soured playing full time for me. The clubs scene started dying in the late 80's and it has continued to die more rapidly in the past 10 years. For a guy like me, I lived from gig to gig. I occasionally had an album/t shirt to sell off the stage, but most of my energy went into contacting clubs around the world. When the club scene started wanning I lost my inspiration. Today one has to do so much to stay a draw that I can not even begin to comprehend how much a full time player in the 99% club has to do to stay in gigs. Lessons, seminars, running your own festivals, and all the technology one has to do on their own to make these things profitable makes me thankful I am where I am at in life. Adam is a great example of an old school guy that hustles on these new frontiers. That goes to show if one is inspired they can still make things happen! Walter

PS: In a cool way I feel like I am in that 1% club. I don't hustle gigs, or activety promote my music in hopes of getting anywhere. I share it for free, play when I want, own my own studio, and control the entire production process from being a 1 man band, to recording, video, and making cds. This is really as good as it gets. If someday my approach to music gets popular, I am ready on my terms. Otherwise I am enjoying life. Follow your heart and it will lead you to everything you need!

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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2011 8:04 AM

Miles Dewar
723 posts
Feb 13, 2011
8:00 AM

Walter,

" get my tubes tied in my early 20's, tell my wife on our first meeting that music was my #1, and never bought a house. Kids, houses, and wives that want nice things, will kill a full time music dream quick."

Thats my philosophy. Having kids of my own just doesn't seem to create some "Magical" joy that I would not get otherwise. Try having Mexican relatives that constantly say, "Marriage, kids, family is what life is all about"

I've been thinking that since highschool. When people even then were talking about marriage...... Just seemed silly. Marriage, kids at 20?

NOT for me. Skydiving, Skateboarding, and Blues give me much more joy than I believe any woman or child could bring. I just like being single and FREE. And "Girlfriends" are always so much prettier than Wives. :)

waltertore
1060 posts
Feb 13, 2011
8:08 AM

Miles: It sounds like you are living your dream! I have been around the Mexican culture 25 years. Being a special education teacher in Ca and Tx(13 years as a teacher) most of my students were illegals from Mexico. My wife and I took in a homeless 11 year old girl- undocumeted Mexican gang banger. I know what you are saying about the having kids. I have to say that when you find the right woman it is better than girlfriends. Judy and I are going on 31 wonderful years together.
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2011 8:10 AM

chromaticblues
582 posts
Feb 13, 2011
8:38 AM

Answering Adam's question:
I made $50 about 8 months after buying my first harmonica. I played 4 to 8 hours everyday! Then continued to do so for 16 years. In the early and mid ninties I made pretty good money at playing the harp, but it was always an inconsistant income. I've played five gigs in a weekend and made $1000 myself. I played in a dou in Nashville and was payed $1000 (for both of us) for playing a 45 minute set! Most of the time I was making $50 to $100 a gig. Now as some people mentioned I was making enough money to support myself, but I've been married for 22 years, have two kids, a morgage and a beegle. I don't even know how many jobs I've had. Reality!
What alot of people that are giving thier heart felt advice maybe over looking is; sometimes it has nothing to do with anything less than being resilant! If you play everyday, spend sometime doing the stuff that adam said, practice scales, hitting all the bends with good consistant tone. and get out of your house and just play infront of people how ever you can. The more you play infront of people and talk to people about being a harmonica player the more your chances increase to finding the right person or people! You have to create your own luck! Luck doesn't just happen. You have to give luck a kick in the ass to let it know your ready.
Now after saying that. Your dellusional!

Miles Dewar
725 posts
Feb 13, 2011
11:38 AM

Walter,

Wow! 31 years! She must be a great woman. She's supportive of your kicking and stomping I'm sure. I'm sure it's very nice to have someone to share your stories with. I get that itch a lot and not much people I'm close to care about the music enough to listen to me ramble. Good for ya'.
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---Go Chicago Bears!!!---

isaacullah
1386 posts
Feb 13, 2011
12:54 PM

I made my first street change after about 3.5 years of playing. It was the first time I put out a tip bucket. I played for a couple of hours at a local street/art fair. I made somewhere around $20. That was last Fall.

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== I S A A C ==

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waltertore
1061 posts
Feb 13, 2011
1:01 PM

Miles: I met Judy when she came up and danced all night at one my gigs. Afterwards she came up to talk and we have been together ever since. She is supportive of all my endeavors and nutty ways. She puts up with me recording 30-50 hours a week, moving all over the world when the urge hits, the ups and downs with my mental stabilty/therapies/medications, my crazy hours (I am up at all hours playing), and in general is the greatest partner I could ever dream of. Heck she agreed to leave the beatiful wine country of Sonoma county Ca to move to central Ohio so I could build my own studio and we could live life easier finacially. I came home one friday night after we were together about a year and said we got to sell everything at the flea market tomorrow because a Norway big wig is bringing me over for a tour. We sold everything, loaded up our old caddy with a trailer on the back, left California, got married in Vegas, drove to NJ parked the car/camper in my parents driveway, jumped a plane to Norway. When we got there nobody greeted us and we ended up eventually finding the guy only to find the tour was canceled. We snuck on the train until we were kicked off in Brussels. That became our home for 2.5 years and turned out to be great time of playing great clubs and festivals all over europe and scandinavia. I could go on for days with stories like this. When things get stagnent I eject. Putting oneself in motion creates change and change is necessary when stagnation starts to set in. I am like a ball in a pinball machine. Judy is a true adventurer. I need a woman like this in my life or would go without em. Walter"mixing this mornings session as I type" Tore
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller

2,600+ of my songs

continuous streaming - 200 most current songs

my videos

Last Edited by on Feb 13, 2011 1:10 PM

Miles Dewar
726 posts
Feb 13, 2011
2:06 PM

Fantastic story Walter! That's a ride right there my man.......

".......we were kicked off in Brussels. That became our home for 2.5 years and turned out to be great time ......"

Fantastic!

robbert
28 posts
Feb 13, 2011
2:15 PM

An amazing thread. A great question, and incredible response.

I have come to believe over the years, that we create our own reality, largely unconsciously(not our fault)and in some cases, or for some aspects of our lives, consciously.

I decided to scratch this almost lifelong irritating itch of wishing to be a music player long after starting a family.

The question of earning anything but an incidental income from the exercise never really entered the picture for me.

But I believe everyone creates their own reality or path. I think you can customize your reality exactly if you know how.

I have not found this to be all that easy to do.

I have, however, tailored my musical life to co-exist with a family life and an income stream(day job).

These are all elements that I wish for in my life(well...except maybe the day job, but it's an okay day job) and have. Furthermore, they are interwoven to a large degree.

The only part that I don't seek change in really, is the family life. It's great... but I always work to become a better musician, and I'm always looking to improve the income stream!

For me music, harmonica playing, and performing in bands in my local community, has so improved the quality of my life(and it was fine to begin with) that I hardly care about making money from it. It's more about how good can the music get?

Yes, there are rounding up local bookings,keeping the groups that I'm in active, but we are not talking any real serious time and consequently, real money here.

We have day jobs.

Are we hobbyists? Maybe. We don't seem to care. We just want to make music. But professionally enough to put on a show for the public to enjoy and in most cases, pay for. And every musician I play with wants to 'perfect' his music, or evolve, learn more, get better, etc. but none of us seek to make it our livelihood...exclusively.

Personally, I'm thrilled to be playing music, and working on it, and getting a little notoriety in my local community, and playing with good people, good musicians,and equally thrilled to not be a slave to a music career.

Am I a killer player? No. Am I working on it? Yes. Am I playing with good people and creating mini musical cathedrals that small groups of the paying, or tipping public seem to totally enjoy? Yes. Am I satisfied with how it's going so far, after ten years of this harmonica quest? Yes.

It's a pretty good life.

...and a great thread. Thanks.

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