I have been dabbling with amplifying my harp in my one band set up. Playing the drums on my feet, the harp on a rack, singing, and guitar, all at once has presented some problems with this. First I tried putting one harp rack over another one and taping a shure 57 to it and butting it up to the harp in the rack closest to my mouth. It was just too heavy and the mic cord kept banging on the guitar strings.
Walterharp on the bushman/MBH forum sent me a tiny little mic he built to try out. It arrived today and I hooked it up to my princeton reverb reissue (stock except eurotubes) and had to run my guitar direct into a preamp (I got to buy a vibro champ). I took an empty toilet roll and cut it open and added some paper towels to the inside. Then I duct taped it in place, fitted it over a bushman delta frost (A and also stock) and slid the tiny mic in against the harp. This added somewhat of a hand cupping effect. So after about 10 minutes of rigging it up, off I go, hit the recording button and here is what I got. there is still a lot of bleeding of acoustic harp into the vocal mic and vocal into the bassed out/distorted harp amp. Also the harp mic has a buzz to it (maybe I am doing something wrong with the hook up?). All in all I think it is a good start. I may buy some of that sound deading foam they put in computers to quiet them down in recording studios inside the toilet paper roll to see if that isolates it a bit more. Here are the results- all words and music spontaneouslsy created and recorded! Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Walter those songs sound great! I especially like Overdrive. Necessity certainly is the mother of invention. You may be on to something here. ---------- Oisin
Thanks Oisin! I started out playing amplified harp and pretty much let it go around 1980. I miss it sometimes and this little rig may make it all pretty simple. This set up took about 10 minutes to set up and that included unpacking the mic from the mail envelope this afternoon. I would just have to make it more gig ready so it all stays in place. The harp racks I use are only about $8 each so I could buy 2 or 3 and permenantly mount the harp set up in each and then just slide in the tiny mic. I need to get another guitar amp. I have been seeing silver face vibro champs cheap on craiglist. It sounds too clean for me going straight into a preamp. To be continued.......... Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I'm at work at the minute Walter on night shift and I can't see the photos but I'll have a look when I get home in the morning. I have a little tie clip mic at home and I'm gonna try the same thing and see how it works. You're an inspiration! Why not try a signal splitter Walter if you need another amp?
Oisin: Thanks! My 1 man band rig came about via such duct taped ideas. I basically put the toilet paper roll over the top of the harp and under the bottom of it, just enough to stay in place so my lips wouldn't rub on it. the photo is pretty washed out and it is hard to see the toilet roll. It looks more like the paper towel is just wrapped around it. The toilet roll is about the same lenght as the harp. That little mic is the ticket on the rack for its lighweight. I sounded pretty good too. I look forward to what you discover. Walter
I am not sure what you mean by a signal splitter. What I need is 2 amps. One for the harp and one for the guitar. The settings are totally opposite. the harp likes lots of volume, bass, and little treble. The guitar likes very little on the volume knob, very little bass and quite a bit of treble. ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I'm not judging your toilet paper roll idea but offering another suggestion you may not know. I seen this mic most commonly used by John Gindick on youtube called the Strnad SHPVC-10 Harmonica Pickup that seems to clip onto the harmonica. Not that I use it...
Ummmm... example clip:
Anywho, nice idea and cool jams as usual.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
RyanMotors: thanks for that link. I appreciate you thinking of me! What I like about my idea is the cupping effect it gives the sound. This was prototype #1 and I am sure more configurations will be coming daily :-) I envision a hollow chamber the harp rests in that is lined with some kind of material that is like the palm of the hand. The video you posted sounds like an acoustic harp uncupped and not very good to my ears. I wonder why he blows into that instead of just a 57/58? That would give the harp a much more natural sound than whatever element is in that rig. I do wonder what those things sound like through an amp or is he blowing into an amp on clean settings? I get that natural sound with my normal set up on the rack and singing/blowing into a large diaphram condensor mic. I have a message enroute to Paul Osher. He has a very interesting harp mic set up for the rack and it sounds amplified. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Have you tried any of the weird harps like the Seydel Fanfare with it's megaphone, the Suzuki Pipe Harmonica or the Hohner Harmonette/Harponettes? They might be easy to modify for your purposes. Turbo has a harp with built in pickups.
"What I like about my idea is the cupping effect it gives the sound. This was prototype #1 and I am sure more configurations will be coming daily :-) I envision a hollow chamber the harp rests in that is lined with some kind of material that is like the palm of the hand (waltertore)." Wow, actually I'm more interested in your idea now. Too be honest the second I seen the pictures the Gindick setup was the first thing that came to mind. But I agree your setup is bound to sound better & who knows, maybe you'll patent something for future rack players! I dabble on piano and have thought of attempting rack instead of one handed playing, haha.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
narcon: I will look into those items. I am kind of a duct tape engineer and enjoy putting stuff together with whatever is lying around the house. Much of my 1 man band rig is built this way. I use to be friends with Blaze Foley and we had a passion for duct tape in common :-) Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
RyanMortos: I will keep you updated. I can overdrive the harp easy with it cupped and that paper towel did the basic trick by sealing the chamber. I doubt my engineering skills will ever earn me a patent except in the duct tape hall of fame! I make up for my engineering skills with my suits :-) Those old blues guys always fascinated me with their wild suits and funky as a monkey gear. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
sydeman: Thanks for that link. I am going to buy some more harp racks and fit each one up with a permanant harp in it with my modified toilet paper roll cover. Then I can just slide the tiny mic in and off I go! I am sure over time I will figure a more durable cover. The problem is the spring tension on the rack and the crimp of the flat part that holds the harp. If you put too much stuff into it, the harp will slip out(this is where duct tape will come in and save the day). I love to build stuff with what is lying around. I inherited this from my grandfather. He bought a small 2bdrm officers bungalo after WWII and parked in on a lot in Ortley Beach, NJ. The cool part is he went down to SC and took it apart, trucked it to NJ, and put it back together with most of the original nails! The house still is standing. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Hey E - didn't gorfalamew rig up something like that a few years ago - basically cut a slit in black ABS pipe, just big enough for the harp to slip in from the end and stayed in place with friction fit. The mic was permamently fixed in the pipe. ---------- If it ain't got harp - it ain't really blues!!!!
eharp/jawbone: I have thought of that but think the weight of pvc is too much to be comfortabley mounted to my cheapo harp rack.
PaulM: thanks for listening!
I am waiting for the paper towel dispenser to run out. I think they are more rigid than the toilet paper roll. We have a couple of those styrofoam covers for outdoor spikets in our basement. I am going to see if they will fit the harp rack/harp.
Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Those tracks sound good, Walter. Can I suggest something else to try? Those neoprene soft drink can insulators often have the right diameter opening to stretch around a 10-hole diatonic, and then you can fit a mic into the back somewhere. Result is a big cupped space with soft walls, may get a deeper/darker sound than the insulated paper roll does. Clamp the part of the neoprene that's stretched round the harp in your harp rack and figure out what you need to do for overall stability. Those can insulators come in different thicknesses of neoprene, not too expensive to try different types. Might be easier to change harps with this kind of cupping setup. I use a handheld version to show people what they will sound like when they develop a good closed cup; it may not be possible to get one's mouth as far over the harp with the insulator on there, but it's workable.
that is a great idea htownfess- right up my level of technology alley -thanks! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
Cool project Walter and your first experiments sound good. Maybe one of the mic experts could weigh in here, but my limited experience with one of those little electret (lapel) mics is that they have a very wide and flat frequency response, and are pretty clean sounding, even when cupped.
As part of your experimentation, you might try borrowing a digital modelling amp with built-in effects (e.g. Vox DA series or Roland Cube, etc.) to try as you harp amp. This will allow you to shape the sound more directly. My gut says that you might have a hard time getting the sound you want though a tube amp with that mic.
I have a little Vox DA-5 and notice a big difference between using an electret mic and a vintage Shure CM. I can make both sound good but the settings need to be completely different. Need more digital mojo to make the electret element sound good, while the Shure element contributes a lot to the sound. For what it's worth, your mileage may vary, etc.
Hi mr_so&so: Thanks for checking it out and your advice! Truth is, I am not very interested in amplified harp playing. It grabs me every once in awhile but 99% of the time I prefer to play acoustically off the mic (on a rack most of the time in my 1 man band setup). Because it isn't inspiring for long, I will probably stick with this mic and the low tech approach. For sure the mic/tube swap gurus could get my tone in the range of what is popular, but I acatually like the tone I am getting out this rig. I like being able to make sounds that please my ears that are low tech. By low tech, I mean from stuff laying around the house, stuff people don't want anymore, or what comes in the mail (this mic was a gift from walterharp). All these things come easy. No shopping, no bartering, no nothing but a wonderful gift to be used by one who will love to use it. Judy and I give most everything away we no longer need/like/use. The universe seems to put you in a loop with others of the same. I have put together most of my 1 man band this way(and most everything else). I am mainly interested in how to hook it up easier to the rack. I am off the beaten path of the music, so I guess my amped harp tone is too? To be honest a huge % of amped harp players tone sounds the same to me. When I lived in Austin the Strat ruled and I was drawn to playing a jazzmaster.... The story of my life - what lights my fire is not what lights most peoples :-) If I hit the lottery, or maybe one of these things will find their way to my door, I will definitely try it out! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
walter was talking about a 2nd amp, and that could go a long way toward darkening the tone a bit with just turning down the treble some, but as he said, the electric sound he is already getting with that mic is more consistent with his overall sound
did moving the can around stop the buzz? that is the main problem with that mic, is that the metal can the battery and bass rolloff capacitor is in picks up electric fields from the amp
walterharp: Thanks so much for the mic! I will use it in good health. I haven't messed with it yet. Tonight I will. You are right, I want an second amp (one for guitar and one for harp) and I dig the less bassy tone the mic has(to me it sounds bassy as hell). Another thing if you listen to the songs on the top of the thread is the acoustic harp tone is coming through the vocal mic big time. I had to do some deep ear listening to get them both sounding good to me. What one is actually hearing is the amped sound mixed with the acoustic harp sound and together they are a bit out of phase due to how close together the mics are.
clamsharpplayer: That is John Paris. He use to play around NYC (mainly Dan Lynchs) when on his own. That rig is what I am looking for but I would want it lined with something soft to mimic the texture of the palm of the hand. thanks for sharing it!
Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
This might sound ok, but I gotta keep it real... It kinda looks like a torture device from one of the SAW movies. Is it worth looking that silly? I dunno...
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
That is a very good sound you're getting out of that toilet paper rig, Walter! I gotta play around with this with my own shop and try to come up with something like it--I really miss the cupped sound when I play with the rack, but I'm a lot more of a guitar player than a harper, so I just can't give up that rack.
I Don't know what kind of rig Phil Oscher uses--but it looks a lot like a PVC pipe thingy--not really a lot different than yours. Anyway, he gets a good sound too, at least to my ears, and it looks like it might be easier to carry around on the road without getting beat up.
There is also a great LW story in this clip:
---------- ==================================== Always be yourself--unless you suck. . . -Joss Whedon
oldwailer: Thanks for checking things out and for the video. the story was classic! I am getting one of those rubber slip on beer cooler things this weekend if I can find one. I hate going to walmart....... Let me know if you come up with anything. It definitely adds another dimension to my 1 man band sound.
I am not sure if I am more of a harper, guitar player, singer, or 1 man band. they all are catching up to each other as the years go by :-) Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
bluesmozark: The one man band thing is great. I no longer deal with the cazillion problems that exist in having a band. I am thankful that I met wilbert harrison early in my career. His one man band planted a seed that is coming to fruitation. Being able to play all these instruments at once has taken almost 40 years but well worth it! Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I am continuing to tinker with using a paper toilet roll on my harp rack to get a cupped amplified sound with my 1 man band set up. I was going to go to walmart today to look for one of those rubber beer can coolers. I think this will be my answer but couldn't bring myself to going to walmart. It is too depressing there for me. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I am still on the empty toilet paper roll kick to give a cupping effect on my harp rack. I am digging be back on amplified harp much to my suprise. I recorded these this morning with my feet on the drums, keys, harp on the rack and vocals. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
LonesomeHarpman: thanks! I am of the school that one can make most anything sound good if they know how to play. I spent a lot of time with Louisiana Red. He would do this everyday on any kind of guitar put in his hand. I am real happy with my $5 mic and toilet roll cup over the rack. Most of my playing life I lived in poverty and played on real funky guitars, amps, flat harps. I had to learn how to make them sound as good as the guys that had the good gear. I play stock guitars(currently a MIK Tokai copy of a 335 is my main one for the 1 man band), a stock princeton reverb reissue amp, a cheap casio priva keyboard, stock bushman delta frosts/marine band harps, use no picks just my fingers, sing in my natural voice, and use the cheapest harp rack out there. IMO most people waste valuable time on searching for the holy grail of tones and playability when that time would be much better used learning how to make music. I see my little experiment here as a statement to this effect plus I dig the stuff I use. Walter
DirtyDeck: Thanks! This forum is 90%+ amped harp. I think it inspired me to give amped harp a shot again. I am digging it. I am getting a mix of acoustic harp from the vocal mic and amped harp from the little mic inside the toilet paper roll. Also the vocals are picked up by the harp mic and they are dirty as hell. Blending the 2 mics together has created a cool sound to my ears. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
