tookatooka
2136 posts
Feb 09, 2011
9:36 AM
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In the art world we have a genre of art which is called 'Outsider Art'. This is generally art which has been created by amateur artists who pay little regard to the rules of art but feel the need to express their feelings in a tangible or graphical manner. Sometimes they make work that the art world takes notice of who introduce aspects of it into mainstream art. At times the work is crude due to an ignorance of the materials used but can have it's own charm and merit admiration.
As far as musicallity goes, I consider myself an 'Outsider Musician' in as much as I don't know the rules of music (theory) apart from the little I have been able to pick up through playing the harp and asking dumb questions on here. (Sorry to those who have had to explain things to me over and over). As far as the rules go, I have muslexia. Yes you're ahead of me again. Musical Dyslexia.
Anyway, to be concise, I've been working on some music which will be the backing track of a video I am making and I just wanted to run it past you for comment and critical analysis. I haven't added the harp to it yet as it's still a WIP and to be honest I'm not sure where I'll be able to fit the harp in at this stage. I warn you though, although I use 'blues' as a basis for the piece, it is anything but blue in its mood. I like happy, foot tapping sounds that make me laugh, so if you're a dyed-in-the-wool serious blues harper you may want to go and find a thread about tongue blocking or overblow shimmies or something.
But, if you happen to have a sense of humour and a couple of minutes to spare, I'd be very appreciative of your input. I still have a little more to do but here is the main meat of the piece before I add the harp. Many thanks.
EDIT: I've replaced the previous track that was here with a later one which is better. It's the same as the one a few posts further down.
Oh! I used Fruity Loops 3.5 for this.
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Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 1:36 PM
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nacoran
3793 posts
Feb 09, 2011
10:25 AM
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When the piano is going it sounds like techno ragtime!
The recording levels seem a little low. I had to turn up my speakers. I like it. Do you have a link to earlier versions? I could hear some good spots for the harp.
I'm not sure about the final piano hit at the end. It sounds like the right notes, but the emphasis is wrong, or it doesn't sustain. I'm not sure exactly what, but since it's the last thing people will hear...
Playing with the volume levels of the different tracks as the song develops might let you showcase different parts. You could pan some of the sound effects (like the siren) left to right to give it more of a 3-dimensional sound.
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Nate
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OzarkRich
387 posts
Feb 09, 2011
11:03 AM
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I agree that the levels are too low. I'm one of those "blues should be blue" types and so it seemed rather repetitive (but still catchy). My nine year old really liked it and the twelve year old didn't (I didn't waste my time asking my self-centered, hardheaded, bullheaded, moody brain-dead teenager).
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tookatooka
2137 posts
Feb 09, 2011
11:49 AM
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Thanks for the input Nac and Ozark. Love the term techno ragtime nac. Spot on.
I haven't got any earlier files, this is my only one at the moment. Yes that last note is a chord hit which I will have to look into. Also to see how I can add some sustain. I'll sort the volume and panning out in due course while I fiddle about with it.
Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.
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Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2011 11:50 AM
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Oisin
750 posts
Feb 09, 2011
1:25 PM
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Tooka....this reminds me of music from a Mario Bros game. I don't mean that to sound like a bad thing, it's just what it reminds me of. I like it.
I think you should forward it to game developers and see if they can use it.
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Oisin
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jodanchudan
238 posts
Feb 09, 2011
2:04 PM
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Techno ragtime is spot on. I'm intrigued to see where you're going with this and where the harp will fit in. Good stuff.
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tookatooka
2139 posts
Feb 09, 2011
4:04 PM
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Thanks fellas, I'm beginning to get excited about this. I'm learning a lot about Fruity Loops and discovering some really useful features. I've had it for ages and never really bothered with it until recently. Yeah! Techno Ragtime sounds good. I'll keep you updated, I've made a lot of changes already and am now trying to work out how I can end it.
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PaulM
108 posts
Feb 09, 2011
4:17 PM
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Tooka: I second Oisin. It doesn't sound bad at all, but the analysis will ultimately depend on the video content. It may be a perfect match.
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tookatooka
2140 posts
Feb 10, 2011
8:55 AM
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Hi Paul, nah! the video will not be worthy of this fine peice. The more I work on it the better it sounds. I'm surprised at how good I think it is and I am my own worst critic. Can't wait for you all to hear it when it's finished.
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Ant138
784 posts
Feb 10, 2011
11:45 AM
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I like it Tooka, It definatly has a fun edge to it. I also think techno ragtime describes it well,it seems you have invented a new genre:o)
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waltertore
1044 posts
Feb 10, 2011
2:41 PM
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tookatooka: I say if it moves you do it. Forget what people think and go with your heart. I have been an outsider musician all my life-know nothing of theory, have no desire to learn it, and have said no to big deals that wouldn't let me do spontobeat. As far as I can find, I am the only one making everything up everytime they play. For whatever reasons the mainstream music world (and I consider all generes that do rehearsed, repeated songs, mainstream) has yet to acknowledge my music. That is cool because I do it for my own sanity and quality of life. People have laughed at my music and others praised it highly. It is all irrelevant really. All that matters is the artist is satified. It would be nice to get reconized to the point where I could do gigs in nice rooms like I use to, but not nice enough to add thinking to my music/performances. I would like to be accepted to this point, but I can't conciously make a plan to get there. IMO art is not concerned with what others think and is consumed with what comes blindly out of our soul. I am sure you know all this already but it always help me to say it because the music world isn't going to. Good luck and enjoy all the joy the new discovery is presenting! Walter
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Last Edited by on Feb 10, 2011 2:47 PM
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tookatooka
2141 posts
Feb 10, 2011
2:48 PM
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Thanks Ant. Thanks Walter. Wise words indeed.
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tookatooka
2142 posts
Feb 10, 2011
3:42 PM
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Thanks AirMojo, never considered that but you never know.
Wow! This has been quite an exciting journey and I've learnt so much. I'm pleased to present my second soundfile. It is an improvment on the last file and is coming together really well. Just need to polish it up a little more and listen to it again in the cold light of the morning. Then work out where I'm going to put the harp bits in. I can hardly believe I was capable of creating this, I'm so pleased.
Once again your comments would be much appreciated. Hope you like it.
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Last Edited by on Feb 14, 2011 1:36 PM
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7LimitJI
386 posts
Feb 11, 2011
3:48 AM
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Had me tapping my foot, but I got a wee bit bored after a couple of minutes.
How about some stops or stripped back bits to build some tension ? Middle 8 type bit ? Key change?
Liked the start, so maybe an outro/ending rather than the fade?
Keep it up Tooka:o)
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tookatooka
2144 posts
Feb 11, 2011
4:54 AM
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Thanks 7. Yeah! I need to learn some of those techniques to stop it being so repetitive.
"How about some stops or stripped back bits to build some tension ? Middle 8 type bit ? Key change?
Liked the start, so maybe an outro/ending rather than the fade?"
I think I know what you mean. I'll start work on a newer version soon.
Thanks for your help. Most kind of you. I have a lot to learn.
What's a middle 8 type bit?
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Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2011 5:01 AM
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7LimitJI
387 posts
Feb 11, 2011
5:06 AM
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I googled it, there's lots of examples of songs with middle 8's.
Here's a good explanation
A middle 8 is so called because it is a section in a song that tends to happen towards the middle of the song, and tends to be eight bars in length. The purpose of this section is to break up the simple repetition of a verse/chorus/verse/chorus structure by introducing new elements into the song. This can be a new chord sequence and melody, maybe a big change in the arrangement of the song, or even an instrumental solo. These new elements in the song help to keep the listener interested in what's happening, much like a subtle twist in the plot of a novel or movie. Of course, there is no rule that says the middle eight has to be eight bars long, but that is the most common length.
Some ideas
* Some of the best middle 8s reveal something new in the lyric, a subtle twist or revelation in the subject matter. This is a classic way of keeping a listener's interest; just when they unconsciously feel they've heard everything you have to say in the song, you rekindle their interest with something new.
* How about repeating the melody and lyric from the chorus, but over a new and different chord sequence? This can create some very interesting musical effects.
* Sometimes it can be exciting just to allow a singer to improvise (or 'freestyle') over an instrumental section in your song, maybe singing without specific words ie, bah bah bah, la la la!
* Try changing key. If your song is in a major key, try changing to the relative minor key for your middle eight (the relative minor key is three semitones lower than your major key, so A minor is the relative minor to C major).
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
Last Edited by on Feb 11, 2011 5:09 AM
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7LimitJI
388 posts
Feb 11, 2011
5:13 AM
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This is worth a read
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/soldonsong/guide/song.shtml
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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tookatooka
2145 posts
Feb 11, 2011
5:16 AM
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That's great information thanks 7. I wouldn't have known what to look for on Google. This is getting very interesting now. Thanks again.
If I can repay your kindness in any way, please let me know. I'm quite clever with computers and watercolour painting.
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KingoBad
605 posts
Feb 11, 2011
5:34 AM
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Tooka,
I think this is some interesting stuff. It tugs my like for techno dance music and grounds me because of the familiar structure.
I think you should look at some of the things that make techno and dance music interesting.
Perhaps a strategic drum break or fill for a measure (4 beats). Maybe a section where you really drive the bass. Maybe sample some John lee Hooker or some other cool voice to add in ad a particularly significant moment in your structure (maybe right before you add the driving bass).
You could also just break everything except the bass beat and wail away on a solo or rhythm harp piece and drive home your bluesy techno harp old school.
I think you could take it many interesting directions. Can't wait to hear the final product...
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7LimitJI
389 posts
Feb 11, 2011
5:37 AM
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You're welcome Tooka :o)
Thanks for the offer.
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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tookatooka
2146 posts
Feb 11, 2011
7:22 AM
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7LimitJI@ Many thanks for your advice. It is solid gold for me. I made a little icon by way of thanks. Use it how you like, if you want a larger one let me know. I assume you know how to right click it to put on your hard disk?
Thanks also to you KingoBad. I've learnt so much just recently and can't thank you enough. Some good ideas there. Just not enough hours in the day.
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nacoran
3801 posts
Feb 11, 2011
8:47 AM
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It makes me smile.
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Nate
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tookatooka
2147 posts
Feb 11, 2011
12:07 PM
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That's what I want.
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7LimitJI
392 posts
Feb 12, 2011
4:38 AM
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Thanks Tooka.
Now people can't escape my ugly mug ;O)
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
"Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out".
"It's music,not just complicated noise".
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