At one point I was almost on the cusp of being a Marine Band nazi, to me nothing else had the raspy mojo of a Marine band, plus all of my harp gods play them.
But then I got a Manji in Bb and my loyalty started to waiver, big time. So much easier to play! Engineered like the space shuttle, just awesome. I picked up more Suzuki models, all excellent, very consistent quality.
But I still found the Marine band to be the most rewarding when I could play one well, which is not everyday, believe me.
Well yesterday I needed a D harp and the only one in the store was a Golden Melody, so I got it. Jeeze does it play nice! A different sound, hard to describe, maybe "sweeter"(?) but still definitely bluesy as heck. Just a wonderful harp. I had heard that GM chords sound "off", but I don't think they sound bad or out of tune, just different.
I'm wondering are there any well known pro harp players (past or present) that were strictly GM users? I think Todd Parrot and Howard Levy are both GM players.
You've nailed it for me when you described the MB sound as raspy. I was trying to work out how to describe the sound but couldn't quite put my finger on it.
I use Special 20's but am hankering for the raspy sound of the MB without going for the wood. I wonder if any mods can be done to make the SP20 raspy? ----------
Jason used to use them a lot. Terry McMillan did. I'm sure others will name more. They are different, but once you get used to them you might fall in love. I've heard that about chords due to the tuning, but I've never thought they sounded off. The shape of the ends makes perfect sense to me and seems like all harps should be shaped this way. Why should the end holes not have the same feel to your mouth as the other holes?
to me its the tuning-I started out with mb1896 and blues harps but hated the comb swelling-went to sp20 which sounded a lot like them but no comb problems-GMs just dont seem to have that rich sound concluding its the equal tuning just does not suit me like the compromise or just intonation
The characteristic sound of MBs has a lot to do with the VENTED covers. Manjis also have vented covers.
SP20s have UNvented covers.
Personally, I prefer the sound of harps with full length UNvented covers--like the GM and the Suzuki Hammond. I think the tone is darker and more focused.
I've never been bothered by how the chords sound on GMs or Suzukis.
That being said I'm a big fan of golden melodies. I have more golden melodies then any other make/model harmonica. I find them to be comfortable, generally seem to be more airtight then sp20s & marine bands, and obviously since they're made with plastic combs & screws easier to do modification to then a marine band. If I made a top 5 favorite harps list golden melodies would be on it :) .
I don't see why a harmonica player wouldn't have different makes/models in their case. Why not go to a gig with marine band sounding harmonicas for some songs and golden melody sounding harmonicas for other, more melodic songs.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Tooka, I'm not sure, but the two things that stand out when you hold an SP20 next to a MB are the combs and the covers. Closed back harps like the SP20's seem to have a warmer sound. You could always get deluxe or crossovers to deal with the wood, or get custom combs, or try opening up the backs on SP20's.
The GM is fatter than the MB and needs to be tilted a bit more for comfort. My GM in C OBs and ODs fantastically well, and bending the OBs and ODs up is easy on the holes that are gapped close, but my GM in A isn't so good, but I did spend less time gapping it. ---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2011 1:36 PM
when it comes to hohner harps by key; it may be wierd, but i do like different models according to key- i vote for the GM in C.
to me, the GM in C is pretty near perfect. my leather holster is torn from cramming GM Cs in it. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
I have been playing for a long time, and Golden Melody is, and has been, my choice for this time.
Just do not blow too hard, and clean regularily with brasso and wipe with a paper towel till they shine brightly, and don't drop them on a hard tiled floor!!
The comb is brittle, if you take it apart, be careful on tightening the screws on the cover plate, go gently!
You can buy replacement reed plates and it's good to go.
Get a few LO's in minor for back up but in general you will not go wrong with GM's
I found out about Golden Melody Harmonicas in '77... I have been using them ever since...OTB with a little gapping sometimes... But, lately OTB GMs are sounding: Full, Warm, Dark, Raspy, all of the above.
No Harmonica yet comes close for me. I play upside down and I am a Low Down Dirty Blues player... I play them Very Hard.
Anybody want to send me a new FREE custom harp to try and change my mind? I will be happy to try the kind with a 2 year waiting list that cost a hundred or more Dollars!!!
*Wilson Pickett liked the sound of a Golden Melody, believe me I know.*
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2011 4:00 PM
I use harpmasters, special20s,and one bluesmaster. I had a golden melody for awhile but just didn't care for it. Maybe I just didn't give it long enough to get used to it. I ended up giving it to my baby daughter to toot on. she loves it :)
that being said they are NOT bad harps at all..not implying that in the least. just for me the GM didn't really work. ---------- http://www.musicalblades.com
I have GMs from G to F# and they all play fine. OBs work well on holes 4,5,6, on all the harps...ODs are a little tough past the D...not sure a lot of people use too many ODs on high harps anyway.
About cleaning...I read somewhere a couple years ago to run hot water thru the harps, spray each hole with original Windex, soak in hot water for 10 minutes, rinse thoroughly, shake partly dry, and finally play gently untl completly dry. I've done this with all my GMs at least once a month for 2 years and never had any problems. You can see the gunk float out and they play better and easier afterward.
Anyone that plays GM's would be amazed who much better they are with good flat combs. I have Gm's with nice hardwood combs for $75 and modified GM's for $100!
With the customs I make, I use either acrylic or dymonwood combs. I think they make a huge difference, but even with the stock combs, it doesn't take too much effort to have a good playing GM.
I go back and forth between GM's and MB's. Currently, as it comes to keys, I use the following
I like the coverplates and the tone stock and when customized. That being said, I am fairly certain any new harps I get will be Crossovers. I like the comb and they are very easy to work on. They also play fantastic with even just gapping.
If money were no object and I didn't have time and resources in my current main stay of harps, I'd go GM's for anything C or higher and Crossovers for anything lower.
I realized I said I'd get different models by key and didn't say why. I think the GM's have a darker tone in general. If you mod them, they can sound a bit louder and have more cut, but they still sound like a GM, IMO.
On the lower keys, I like the MB offerings as they tend to have more bite and cut to begin with, mostly due to the cover plates. Having the tone of a closed cover harp like the GM on higher keys makes them mellower. Having the open and vented MB style covers on the lower keys lets them cut through the mix better.
To further complicate things, depending on application, there are more things to consider. If I am playing acoustically, I think the fundamental MB tones sounds perfect for blues, whereas the GM sounds jazzier. I am not talking tuning either.
With my personal harps, I like trying to make a GM sound like a MB. That usually gets me good results for playing amped rock music with a clean or cleanish amp.
When I play blues, I am more likely to pic a MB style harp, although the current production GM's seem to have more guts than my old ones, which are probably getting old and losing some cut.
For my gigs with my band it is almost 100% GMs. For my "blues" gig, I use almost 100% MBs. Typically, I carry the keys of C, G, D, A, Bb, F, Eb in both and take the set I want to use. My other keys are pretty much all GM's other than the Low harps.
I haven't fallen in love with the SP20 under any circumstances. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 1/11/11
Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2011 7:38 AM
No...well, I did use the Crossover on an A. I've had some Just tuned GM's in the past, but I like ET. Only some of my Low octave harps are the MB compromise.
I try to make my GM's sound brighter than a stock GM, but not as bright as a MB. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 1/11/11
Correct. When I say Sjoeberg, I meaning a composite comb with his design, which is different than a standard composite comb. I'll edit my previous post. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 1/11/11
Hey Mike, what do you think of your Sjoeberg combs?
This is a little OT, but some MBH members were saying that these combs are not flat. I like the ones I have, and mine seem to be very flat, although i don't work on harps so I have any tools to measure flatness. What do you think of the ones you have?
I agree with the statement that the C GM out of the box really seems to a nice OB harp. One other thought though was that for low harp slow blues, I prefer the compromise tunings or the Special 20 and Manji. I do a lot of chords on these slow blues that sound OK on the GM but that much better on the SP20 and Manji.
Not to hijack the thread, and if anybody wants further details just email me...
I have had no issues with them at all. They have been fantastic and not at all leaky. I am not sure if there is a fool-proof way to really tell if they are flat or not. The reed plates sit in the comb sorta like a stock GM comb. In other words, you can't hold them up to a light like a MB comb or typical dymonwood comb to check. There are other modes of checking, but I don't know if you can ever reach 100% certainty.
At their price point, I had the choice to make pretty much any commercially available comb my go to choice for top end custom work on GMs. That being said, I went with, IMO, the best comb I could get after trying sealed wood, bamboo, dymonwood, and acrylic. I could keep my overhead down by using typical dymonwood combs, which I still do on some builds, but I just love everything about the Sjoeberg combs. They make the harp easier to play while retaining the tone typically associated with dymonwood combs. I strongly believe that they make even stock plates play better, including bending.
Amongst many of the bonuses, they are cut so the GM plates sit further back and won't cut your lips. I do not find them to be "thicker" than other combs. They are different, but remember the reed plates actually sit lower than the perimeter of the comb. They are also gorgeous.
Bottom line, I like them enough to have invested in a stock of finished GM combs for customers. I am also investing in the MB offering - which actually will have two versions. One is just the dymonwood comb cut to the Sjoeberg design and the other is the finished version with metal piping and lacquer. Both are composite dymonwood still and available in a range of colors. In this way, I can offer them at multiple price points for both the MB and MBD/Crossover.
Down the road, I will start finishing and manufacturing them on my own through a business arrangement with Dick. I think it is important to state the above as I obviously have a commercial interest in the combs, although I currently make no profit off of the combs currently...even the ones I sell.
I found the recent Harmonciasessions article on the combs to be a bit confusing. It sounded like there were no benefits to the comb, or at least that was what I got from the first read. In actuality, the point was comb material/design doesn't impact the overall tone of a harp in a noticeable way...but these combs did make for a better playing experience.
The "bomb" referenced in the thread pasted by Joch230 dealt with an issue with second hand combs from a previous design. Like with any of the posts on this forum, I would caution anyone to make a judgement on a used product no matter what the source.
The Sjoeberg combs aren't a magic bullet or something magical. They are scientifically designed combs to try and optimize the impact the comb can have on playability and resonance. They won't be for everyone, but they are a wonderful option for players whose goal is a more responsive and playable harp.
The more I get to know Dick the more I get frustrated with the fact that he is not more well known. He has designed several products for harps and learned a method of customization that is totally top tier. I mean top-top tier.
***Edit after Todd's post...I think Carlos uses at least some Sjoeberg combs. ---------- Mike Quicksilver Custom Harmonicas Updated 1/11/11
Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2011 10:53 AM
There are some interesting things in this Golden Melody thread....
Carlos Del Junco uses Golden Melodies, or at least he did last time I checked, as does TJ Klay, who is an awesome Nashville session player and friend. I know many players who play professionally in the Gospel music genre that use Golden Melodies, though some of you may not be familiar with them - Larry DeLawder, Randy Miller, Angelina McKeithen, etc. And don't forget Buddy Greene. He uses Filisko Marine Bands, and Marine Band Deluxes OOTB, but is primarily a Golden Melody player.
@Stevelegh
"Todd Parrot has at this point gone all googly for being mentioned in the same sentence as Howard Levy."
Well, Howard is definitely the man, but I think even being in the same thread as the late Terry McMillan is an even bigger honor. Many agree that he was probably the most successful harmonica player of all time.... the most successful, not the most famous. The guy played on everybody's records, not just Country stars, and performed live with many of them too, and was always seen playing Golden Melodies.
@hvyj - You make some very good points about the covers. I'm not sure if the vents make more of a difference or if it's the plates themselves. Hard to tell. I have some Golden Melodies with vented covers, and they still sound warmer than other harps. The comb debate is an endless one, but I like custom combs also.
@RyanMortos
"I don't see why a harmonica player wouldn't have different makes/models in their case."
Good point. I do have different models in my case, only problem is I need a bigger case! :)
And to echo Mike's statements about cover plates...
In my opinion, the design of a harmonica in general makes it naturally twangy and brassy sounding, especially in higher keys. Since higher keys are naturally bright, they don't need extra brightness added by the cover plate design. For example, I never liked using Marine Bands for higher keys like Eb-F#. I think full length cover plates help warm up or darken the tone for these keys. Golden Melody cover plates are good for these keys, as are the old, non-MS style Meisterklasse plates. To date, I haven't found a tone I like better for higher keys than the old Meisterklasse covers.
With lower keys, from Bb on down, while I still like Golden Melodies for these keys, lower keys are more naturally warm and sometimes don't need to be darkened or warmed up any further. Marine Bands sound good in lower keys to me, because they seem to help even out the tone. Mike mentioned this when he said Marine bands have more bite and cut to begin with.
On mid-range keys, B-D, I also prefer full length covers. Basically, you have to use your ears and pick what sounds best to you. It's like adjusting the bass, mids, and treble on your car stereo. Everybody adjusts theirs a little different. The same is true with harmonica tones. There really isn't a right or wrong way, it's just a matter of personal preference.
Most of my likes and opinions about the Golden Melody are based on what I hear when I record with them and listen to the playback. A good condenser mic will make certain characteristics more obvious.
I think I'll always be a Golden Melody fan and player.
I started playing a couple of years ago when a set of used but well cared for SP20s and a Lee Oskar were given to me by a coworker. I played them for a few weeks and then found someone who had a couple more harps for sale, a GM and a limited edition gold cover MB for extremely cheap. He was a local pro who babied his harps. He was given the MB by a friend, hated it so he just wanted to get rid of it.The gold cover MB was normal price,though.
Anyway, I played the GM and that was it for me.I liked the sound of the SP20 but really did not like the feel of the standard rectangular shape in my hands. As soon as I held the GM to my mouth it felt great in my hands and I loved the tone.
I sold off the SP20s except for the G and bought more GM's. I had my GM customized by Randy Sandoval of GenesisHarmonicas.net. When he was done tuning it(the G was WAY off tune)and tweaking the reeds and put one of his custom Corian combs on it I couldn't believe how it sounded. It was so responsive compared to before it was done that a simple exhale from my nose as I was putting the harp up to my mouth sounded the reeds. Over the last few nights I have began opening the backs and that alone made another huge difference for the better in my opinion. Only my G GM has a custom comb but I plan on changing that very soon.
There are a couple videos on youtube by people who have had harps customized by Randy. Type in his name and you'll find them and get to listen to how they sound. They sound great in the videos but even tons better in person.
Im still not sure about GM's but im more than sure about MB's the last jam I was at my hands got very sweaty and I could just not keep a good grip on my GM, so I switched to a MB needless to say it stuck fast with a good deep pain but atleast I didn't have to keep adjusting my grip and I sounded better. This is just my oppinion. ---------- "Everyone has to start somewhere."
I switched to Golden Melodies in the mid-90's during the Golden Age of Augusta Howard Levy classes, wanting to be just like Howard. It took me a few months to get used to them, but haven't looked back since. For my preferred style of playing, they are great for arcing melodic lines over 3 octaves. All mine are at least 15 years old or older, as I don't blow out reeds. The older ones feel to me to be much better than the new ones being built these days. Do all my own tuning, regulating, so they respond great. ---------- The Iceman
I was recently introduced to the playing of a French guy called Michel Herblin. He is a truly excellent harp player who uses Golden Melody's, in fact he latest CD is appropriately entitled 'Golden Melodies'!
Here is a sample of him playing live. Nice close-up shots of the GM's and of course that wonderful distinctive GM Tone.
I love my GM's btw. I have an C,E & F so far. I thought I had heard somewhere that the lower pitched keys are not quite as good - don't know if that is true though.
@iceman I just sold 4 old golden melodies with nails and white cases they were out of tune but have never had a GM go bad they are very durable you are so right
Hi, I used GM long time (about 12 years). It's very special model one of the most interesting in my opinion. Greg Zlap, JJ Milteau or Carlos del Junco is big fan of this model. BUT quality every year was worst and worst (maybe Hohner sent to Poland "B stock" harmonicas, I don't know). In Fact I have no time to prepare nearly every GM, I'd like practice, record or play gigs :o) So I choose Seydel 1847 with steel reeds. However I have sentiment to GMs :o)
I have to politely disagree with you, Bart. You may have experienced bad luck with the Golden Melodies, and though there was a time period where the quality standard of the Hohner models seemed to decline, I have found the quality of the stock Golden Melodies to have improved in recent years. Still, nothing beats the NOS reeds from '97-'03 for building overblow harps.
As for the 1847, I have been very disappointed with every one I've tried, but, like your luck with Golden Melodies, perhaps I just got a bad batch of them. At $90, I expected more from the 1847.
Every stock harp requires some setting up, no matter the model or brand, especially if you're an overblow/overdraw player.
Hope to see you at SPAH, Bart. You are one of my favorite players, and are without a doubt one of the nicest, most polite players on the planet.
Greyowl...as for the lower pitched GMs being not as good I do know that my G GM was wayyyyyyy way out of tune but not having a trained ear and not having much experience with harps at the time it was being customized I didn't realize it. It took a LOT of work and time to get it in tune but once it was finished it sang like a bird.
I have low pitched GM's (old ones) and they are wonderful.
Also, Michel Herblin's sound is a good reflection of how a Golden Melody can sound by itself - the sound of vibrating reeds. He is an excellent player and a solid character. He came to Detroit in 1993 or so, for the Hohner World Championships - he won every division he entered on Diatonic. Us guys got to meet him up close and personal. ---------- The Iceman
Dear Todd, I understand and respect your point of view. For 12 years I had over 130 GMs and I felt bad trend with Hohner's quality. When I bought a few GMs in Paris I had no problems with reeds at all! Maybe on the start (98-05) I played on this nice GM line (with nails). To be honest I don't have to regapping Seydel 1847 (only 1st hole). For me is great OOTB, but I'm sure everyone has different taste.
Unforntunately I can't arrive at SPAH 2011, It's LONG travel for me and I have 8months son and a lot of gigs/workshops. :o/ Todd, I hope we will meet in person soon and we will change arguments about GMs and 1847s :o))) It would be nice...
@Bart - Sorry to hear that you won't make it to SPAH, but congratulations on the son! I wonder if he'll grow up and be a harmonica player? :)
@Greyowlphotoart - I've had no problems with the lower keys, though I don't play the lower keys as often. The Low tunings they used to make really were nice. I have a low Eb, E, F and F# and I like 'em.
I play Golden Melodies almost exclusively, mostly because those are what my teacher, Clint Hoover, was playing. I like them for their easy screws to take apart and gap for overblows and overdraws even though gapping is about the only modification that I do.
