groyster1
679 posts
Jan 03, 2011
5:58 AM
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in an interview mick fleetwood talked about playing with the chicago greats like muddy that they would just change keys during the middle of a song-if that happens what do you people do?I know you can change position but there are so many that would seem difficult to know which one
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Harp boy in progress
53 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:17 AM
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I think the most important thing is to prepare before hand. What i meen is that if you no a song is goin to come up with 2 or in some cases maybe 3 key changes, dont panic! Make sure you have your harps well organised on stage. Thats what i do, i have all my harps in my case on stage.
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Nick Moore
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7LimitJI
262 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:19 AM
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Often the "greats" would not stick to a 12 bar progression and change whenever they felt like it.
But it would still be either the 1, 4 or 5 chord, so you have to feel the change and go with it.
John Lee Hooker rarely sticks to a "standard" 12 bar progression. Sonny Boy Williamson was the same in a live situation.
Never heard of Muddy doing it though. Every bio I've read states he liked the band to play live exactly as was on the record.
However,another way to use a change for effect you can go up a semi-tone say from C to C#,and play a Bb chromatic in that situation and just play with the slide in when the key changed.
.
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Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out.
Last Edited by on Jan 03, 2011 6:21 AM
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shbamac
40 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:19 AM
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I use to throw my harp at the guitar palyer...
It's hard for me to pick out the keys of a song by ear but you can train your ear. But you can tell when you are not in key. I use to play in 2nd position only so when I heard a change I would back off the mic find the harp that worked and play on.
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HarpNinja
914 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:35 AM
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If you know a little basic theory and a couple of positions, it can be pretty easy to keep up. If the key change is part of a progession, in blues it will usually be diatonic to the I chord and you can often play the same scale. Lock in with the bass or drums. If they get what is going on, they will almost always tip a hand as to when a change is coming by playing a fill or the like. If the song modulates a half step or something, things can be a bit more confusing.
I don't know why, and I don't think it is unique to me, but I can often play the chord progression of a new song on the fly. You can often just feel the change. I mean, most tunes follow only certain patterns. Again, if you at least know how positions relate to 2nd, you can usually pick up the root or third by ear of a key change and figure out a scale that might work
If you play with space and keep things simple, most people won't realize you're lost, lol.
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Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
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7LimitJI
264 posts
Jan 03, 2011
6:41 AM
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"If you play with space and keep things simple, most people won't realize you're lost, lol."
I did a couple of gigs with Steve Arvey when he was gigging in the UK.
He was playing John Lee Hooker boogie style and was throwing the change whenever he felt like it.
I was totally lost but played like Harpninja suggests.
Only Steve and myself knew it!!
He just gave me a sideways glance and a wry smile ;O)
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The Pentatonics Myspace
Youtube
Why don't you leave some holes when you play, and maybe some music will fall out.
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Barry C.
108 posts
Jan 03, 2011
10:05 AM
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Many bluesers changed around a lot - but I don't think Muddy did that - and I have many of his recordings - most tunes in A, G or E.
Hey if the band don't tell you it ain't your fault (but carry all 12 keys anyhow and have Big Ears)~
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~Banned in Boston!
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Jim Rumbaugh
359 posts
Jan 03, 2011
10:28 AM
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It happened this weekend.
The band player called the tune in Ed. After singing a few bars said, "Go to Bd". I was playing bass, and made the change easy.
To me it's not uncommon to have a lot of similar tunes run together in your mind and you forget which key you typically use. I "assume" that's what happens with some of the "greats" mentioned earlier. There are SO MANY 12 bar blues tunes, sometimes the only difference is what key you start them.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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hvyj
980 posts
Jan 03, 2011
11:24 AM
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This happens when you play multiple positions, too. Every now and then I'll forget I'm in a certain position and will play a scale pattern for a different position by mistake--experienced musicians seem to be very forgiving about errors like that because it's the sort of mistake they all make occasionally. Playing a harp in multiple positions is like playing another instrument in different keys.
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nacoran
3550 posts
Jan 03, 2011
1:48 PM
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We've got one tune we play where we raise the key each time through and play faster. I switch harps. The fact that it is fast actually makes it a little easier. I don't have to be doing any hand vibrato or anything, so as the change is coming I just grab the next harp with one hand and keep playing until the change with the other, then I just swap real quick.
Generally keys change on a note that is present in both keys; sometimes in reels you'll even hear the note played longer, sort of as a pitch pipe. When the run has a few notes that are in the same key you can figure out in practice just where you want to make the change.
And of course, if it's a close key, or you know lots of positions you can just play it on the same harp.
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Nate
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harmonicanick
1040 posts
Jan 03, 2011
2:40 PM
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they would just change keys during the middle of a song-if that happens what do you people do?
Watch the leader and listen and react quickly, if in doubt ask the musician nearest to you.
It will not matter if the harp stays out for a few bars. Remember our instrument is for enhancement in general. The public are not as aware as us, of its importance!!:)
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groyster1
683 posts
Jan 03, 2011
5:22 PM
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good answer nick
thats what I would have to do
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MP
1222 posts
Jan 03, 2011
9:06 PM
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there are several very popular country tunes where they modulate up a half step or a whole step for effect.
i played in a country band for several years, but you knew the tunes and the changes were a given.
on the fly though, the key change will be so related to the former key that it's not too hard to catch. if not, like nick says, ask the guy next to you.----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
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LittleJoeSamson
461 posts
Jan 03, 2011
11:16 PM
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True modulating should be discussed ahead of time or practiced. Sometimes, I think smartazz guitarists do it just to mess with us harpers.
If it's a 1-4-5, there are songs with odd signatures that tend to throw off. The LW version of "Blues With a Feeling" is this way on the intro... 1-1-1-4-4-1-1-5-4-1...to my recollection.
Johnny Winters does a neat step-up modulation of "Parchman Farm" while increasing tempo.
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