kudzurunner
2182 posts
Jan 02, 2011
5:21 AM
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Over the next month or so, I'm going to be working with a web designer to tweak this website and--you'll be more interested to hear--redesign this forum.
As a prelude to that, I experimented yesterday: I made the default font size 14-point, up from 12-point.
When you get a moment, please scroll through a handful of this site's pages, preferably on several different devices (desktop, iPhone, along with laptop) and let me know what you think. Is 14-point too big? Was 12-point OK and should I return to it? You might start with the homepage and tell me if the font size works there.
12-point on my laptop started looking a little small to me. This is a very text-y website and it's important that the font size be optimized.
For purposes of comparison: 12-point is the font size of this post and all other forum posts. (Forum posts weren't affected by what I did yesterday.) 14-point is the font size of the forum creed.
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 5:28 AM
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GermanHarpist
1933 posts
Jan 02, 2011
5:44 AM
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I'm very happy to hear.
Regarding the 12-point font. On my computer that's just fine.
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The MBH thread-thread thread!
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Greyowlphotoart
322 posts
Jan 02, 2011
6:04 AM
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@Phillipe Also, press Ctrl together with + increases font size & Ctrl together with - decreases font.
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MN
34 posts
Jan 02, 2011
9:58 AM
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Any way to make the forum intro/creed smaller, or better yet, put it on a separate page and just link to it? On my iPhone, every time I open the forum or go back to the root page, I have to scroll down a bunch just to get past the creed to the first post. My thumb gets mighty sore. :-)
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oda
423 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:14 AM
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Glad to hear. When can we expecting the changes? If I may ask, what decision was taken? Will the forums remain on these servers or will there be better software? are MacWebsiteBuilder playing along?
Font is fine on my pc and iphone.
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I could be bound by a nutshell and still count myself a king of infinite space
OdaHUMANITY!
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Stevelegh
27 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:22 AM
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Adam:
Personally, I've hung around a lot of forums, and I've built a few very user friendly, high ranking websites. IMHO, there's not a lot wrong with what you've got here.
Forums are only ever as good as their posters and there's a good bunch here.
The only thing you could do is 'slick it up', but it's not really in keeping with dirty mouf organs and their dirty owners. I even like the search facility provided by Google.
Only thing I'd suggest are Stickys and losing the spam prevention tool. No one gets to post without prior approval of their account from you, so why is it necessary?
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HarpNinja
912 posts
Jan 02, 2011
11:44 AM
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Thegearpage.net has a good format. I am fine with one forum and no subgroups, but don't like the google search here or at harmonycentral. I only use those three forums and like that gearpage has a search engine and the google option.
I do most my reading here on my phone. The creed is cumbersome, but still a good thing to have.
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Mike
Quicksilver Harmonicas
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ncpacemaker
2 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:02 PM
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I know I'm just a newbie but I like the forum like it is. Keep the user friendly format you have.
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nacoran
3549 posts
Jan 02, 2011
12:10 PM
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Stevelegh, the Captchas, annoying as they are, have really helped with spam. Even with approval, some spammers slip through, and then all of the sudden there are a couple hundred threads with spam on them.
What's worse, since this site sorts by most recent post, all the real stuff gets buried. The tools to remove spam threads have improved, but since spammers usually post on real threads, and usually only post one or two posts to a thread, it can still take a long time (hours) to clean up after a spammer who doesn't have to deal with a Captcha. And for a while we'd get attacked several times a week.
That said, a honeypot Captcha might catch spam bots. Without knowing what is possible or not with the software, another option could be having Adam have a way to delete all posts by a member all at once, or having the Captchas disappear after you've made a certain number of posts. My auto-fill feature sometimes pops up and blocks the Captcha!
For the forum's front page, maybe the Google search box could be put at the bottom of the page? That might help people find it faster. I've suggested having radio buttons for a few topics. We could mark our posts by topic and use the radio buttons to sort the posts. It would keep the option to wade through everything just as it is now, but let you sort by topic too. As for the creed, and I'm just throwing ideas out based on the comments about scrolling down, maybe it could be turned into a flyover button, or turned into bullet points with a link to expanded explanations, or maybe bullet points with flyovers.
Otherwise, style wise, the only thing I'd change is to change the name of the link for the how-to page. Right now, it's a string of HTML. If it was turned into a link that said 'harmonica forum how-to' or maybe even given a little button it might look better.
edit: ncpacemaker, our posts passed as we posted. I think mostly the discussion is about little tweaks here and there. It's a great forum, but nitpicking, as long as it's solicited, is how you turn great into perfect!
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Nate
Facebook
Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
Last Edited by on Jan 02, 2011 12:13 PM
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kudzurunner
2183 posts
Jan 02, 2011
1:19 PM
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Nate:
I've just made that change you suggested in the forum how-to. I wish they were all that easy!
I'd appreciate a few more people weighing in on the question of the font size. Not a terribly sexy question, I realize.....
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kudzurunner
2184 posts
Jan 02, 2011
1:23 PM
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....but since people are obviously interested in the other stuff, I'll share here three bullet points that I made to my four moderators, from whom I'm soliciting suggestions. We've already had a whole thread on the question of the forum, and I'm taking those excellent contributions into account. Here are my three core points:
1) Although many have suggested that the forum be subdivided into sub-forums focusing on different subject areas (gear, gigs, customizing, etc.), I believe that one source of the forum's vitality is the undifferentiated, wild-and-woolly p. 1. It has become, for better or worse, a representation of "the street" in the blues harp world: a 24-hour coffee-shop/bar that you can shoulder into for the latest news. Any redesign, it seems to me, should find a way of maintaining that format while ALSO somehow offering some subforums into which threads are sorted.
2) Although Macwebsitebuilder, the folks who power my site, don't offer enough instrumentality for many forum members, I don't believe I can accept any redesign that simply transfers the forum off-site. Two-thirds of the traffic I receive on my website comes from the forum. I don't want to relinquish that--and I'm sure that any web entrepreneur would agree with me. One thing I'm having my redesigner explore is the possibility of transferring the whole site to another, equally-easy-to-use webhost.
3) One of the biggest sources of the MBH forum's current vitality, I've come to believe, is the ease with which YouTube videos can be pasted into threads. I will not accept any redesign that loses this particular instrumentality. Because of this feature, the forum has become a place where pros and students alike post their latest videos. That's a REALLY cool thing! We need to keep it.
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AV8R
90 posts
Jan 02, 2011
1:49 PM
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Adam I think the 12 point font is fine, but I would like to echo the comments made regarding the Forum Creed being in the way for IPhone users.
For sure, please keep the posting of videos as easy as possible!
If you do decide to add sub-forums, I would like to suggest an area dedicated to Gussow YT/ TradeBit video lessons (discussions and reviews).
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Stevelegh
28 posts
Jan 02, 2011
2:07 PM
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Nacoran:
I am really surprised at your comments, and in light of them, I wholeheartedly support the captchas.
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arzajac
414 posts
Jan 02, 2011
2:41 PM
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Hi Adam.
The font size is fine on every page I viewed.
There is a website which allows you to see what a site looks like in different browsers:
http://browsershots.org/
It sometimes takes a while for the pages to all load, but I have found that site useful when I want to ensure that the different browsers all format the pages adequately.
It's a shame it only supports web browsers that run on computers and doesn't cover mobile devices...
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gene
618 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:07 PM
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I have one minor suggestion:
Put those page numbers at the top AND bottom of the pages.
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jonlaing
171 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:48 PM
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I second gene's suggestion, it does get a little annoying scrolling back up to go to the next page.
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Stickman
610 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:55 PM
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As for the font,I didn't comment before because it didn't effect me. I suppose that those like me that don't care didn't comment. But either way I have no opinion.
I do however have an opinion on subgroups. Of the few forums I visit, this one is the best because you can follow it like a breaking news thread. Subgroups are great it you want to find a specific thread on a topic but you can't keep track of everything that is going on. With the "most recent post at the top" format the topics that go "out of vogue" drop off of the page but can be found with the search tool. Topics that are being actively discussed go are right there at the top to read and access.
I might also making the "for sale" pace and the "new members check in page" sticky. But on the other hand, they always rise to the top.
I like the search tool but find it hard to use. Better than the search tool is that new members ask the same question and let it be discussed again. I used to get frustrated when the same (what harp to buy what amp to get) question came up every 6 month but then I realized every 6 months there was a new group of knowledgeable members who were eager to answer the question, often with new insights.
I love this forum because it is always changing but has a very simple format. It is easy to flip to and check has anybody posted recently and get the current news. Most important, it is a family. One that loves each other, argues, fights, makes up discussed and occasionally sends people on their way. But, most of all we are a group of friends that enjoy the benefits of a chat room crossed with a message board.
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Stickman
611 posts
Jan 02, 2011
3:56 PM
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"Put those page numbers at the top AND bottom of the pages."
yeah, that too!
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MrVerylongusername
1444 posts
Jan 02, 2011
4:48 PM
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My job is to make print and web media more accessible to people with disabilities.
14pt is recommended as the minimum for people with dyslexia, visual-impairment and learning disabilities, so that simple change gets a huge thumbs up from me. It is easy to change font size on your browser, but frankly IMHO it is such a simple thing to change the base-font that it is just polite to offer it.
I agree wholeheartedly with Stickman. I think categorising the threads would change the whole feel of the forum. This forum feels very similar to the conversations that happen on harp-l. Looking at all the other big online harmonica lists and forums, harp-l and MBH are the ones that get the most traffic and active discussion.
If a better search tool could be added that would be good, but not essential.
I also think that links could be added below the 'creed' (which I think should be less verbose and bulleted into clear 'rules') to make some threads more easily accessed (the buy and sell, introduce yourself, thread thread etc...)
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Littoral
225 posts
Jan 02, 2011
5:14 PM
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I agree with the "front page" value of the format. I don't have a lot of success with the search method and I'm wondering if some sub-category threads could be sorted and accessed another way.
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Silvertone
65 posts
Jan 02, 2011
6:14 PM
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I like the 14 font and would probably like it even bigger!
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Jim Rumbaugh
357 posts
Jan 02, 2011
6:19 PM
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Hmmmm.... is bigger better?????
I have sold eyeglasses for a living over 30 years. 80% of the population will start needing help with their close vision between ages 40 to 45. I believe our main demographics hit ages 40 to 60. A 14 font may be more kind to mature eyes..... ;)
By the way, the younger ones that do everything on a handheld smart phone have no idea what us more mature people are complaining about.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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MP
1211 posts
Jan 02, 2011
8:29 PM
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-i agree with the page number deal.
here's something i noticed about page numbers too.
if i want to look at two threads on page 19 (for instance), when i exit the first thread, it defaults to page 1 rather than remain on page 19 where i want to remain to view the second thread.
i can totally live with this. it would be nice if...........---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Miles Dewar
582 posts
Jan 02, 2011
8:43 PM
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@Jim Rumbaugh,
Yep. The font size on my iPod seems to be between 4 and 6 font.
12 font is ok. It seems to be standard.
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---Go Chicago Bears!!!---
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Hollistonharper
207 posts
Jan 03, 2011
5:12 PM
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Hey just one more request from an iphone user, which is how I usually visit the site. Not sure if this is a website issue or an iphone issue, but when I watch an embedded YouTube video, I can't click through to YT and get information on the video. It would be great if this could be done through a website fix. If the poster doesn't identify the song/artist, I have no way of getting that info. Thanks, otherwise I'm not looking for a lot of other changes.
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nacoran
3555 posts
Jan 03, 2011
7:02 PM
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Holliston, it may be an iPhone issue. I don't have any problem clicking through to YouTube at my computer.
MrVLUN, now that you bring up accessibility issues, that reminds me, we had some complaints with the Captcha system on that too. On a positive note with accessibility, I like the forum width. Some forums run text all the way across the page. The narrower format here makes it a lot easier for me to read (I have a condition related to dyslexia where I lose my place very easily, particularly when I reach the end of a line and have to go back to the start of the next line.) The relatively clean design here also is a big help.
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Nate
Facebook
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Andy Ley
23 posts
Jan 04, 2011
4:56 AM
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Well, Anything I can add has pretty much already been said, but as I'm a graphic designer I can't miss the chance to contribute to a thread I feel qualified to comment on. It may never happen again :)
I'm savvy enough to know how to change the type size. as mrverylongusername pointed out, not everyone knows how to do this and it does raise some accessibility issues. The UK based RNIB (Royal National Institute for the Blind) has a set of acccessibility guidelines available free here that also covers a range of other issues. If you are interested in accessibility then check it out.
Numbers at the bottom and top of the page is an excellent idea. Lost count of the number of long threads I've got engrossed in, then had to scroll back up to the top to go to page 2.
I agree that the forum should not be sub-categorised. I like the fact that everything is in one place. Can't stand going into a forum and having to check 4 or 5 different sections to see what's been updated.
I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere (though I did skim read most of the thread so apologies if I missed it) but would it be possible to have buttons to insert the HTML code for embedding youtube channels, links, etc. into the submit box?
Above all, as my dad would say, if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it! If using the captcha box is the best way to keep the site spam free then so be it. A lot of sites use flashy design to paper over gaps, but other than a few fairly insignificant things already mentioned I think this forum works very well.
Last Edited by on Jan 04, 2011 4:57 AM
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