chromaticblues
429 posts
Dec 21, 2010
8:15 PM
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Hello everybody!
Boy alot of things have been said about custom harps and customizers ripping people off and more nonsense than I care to get into. I'd like to clearify a couple things. Just two months ago I was taking harps from people for $20 and doing 4 to 6 hours of work. I worked on a Sp 20 with nails for over 8 hours for $20. This person bought the harp 20 years ago and put it in a box because it was unplayable. I personally like making a 20 year old junk harp useable for someone, but thats just me. I can't speak for every person that works on harps. I don't sell any harps for over $100. I sell SP 20's $75. I spend about 5 or 6 hours on a harp. So when things go well and its a good harp, I make about $10 an hour. I make harps for people because I can and I like to help people that play the harp. I couldn't afford to buy custom harps when I was playing alot and I'm trying to make it affordable for people now. I'm not going to make you tube vids of what I do. I'm not going buy a harp from anyone and reverse engeneer it.
Also I know most of what goes into the highend customs that sell for big $$. Anyone that has the patience to do all that work deserves $250 a harp!
OK here's the truth people.
Working on harps is very spiritual for me. In 1997 I went to a cross roads in Tutwiler Mississippi and made a deal with a tall black man at midnight. He told me to go to Sonny Boy Williamson's grave, tune a Marine Band, drink a fifth of whiskey and play the blues.
Last Edited by on Dec 22, 2010 7:32 AM
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harpwrench
386 posts
Dec 21, 2010
8:24 PM
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I have a couple big handfuls of clean nailed SP20's I'll make you a sweet deal on if you want them.
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chromaticblues
430 posts
Dec 21, 2010
8:35 PM
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Thanks Joe! I never said they were good harps, but thank you!
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9000
50 posts
Dec 21, 2010
8:50 PM
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I took advantage of the sale at $25 per harp. Sent 4 harps. Rec'd 4 great playing harps! I'm not doing overblows but I like those tongue blocked bends to jump out of the harp....Mission accomplished. I'll be buying more in the future. Not sure that I would really appreciate a $300 harp but these harps really encourage me to play better, try new licks, etc.
Thanks, Kevin. Keep up the good work. If you build 'em, they will come.
All the best,
Jay
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WestVirginiaTom
22 posts
Dec 22, 2010
4:04 AM
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I sent 3 harps to Kevin when he announced his introductory special. I liked his work so well that I quickly sent him 4 more. I was a crappy harmonica player before I sent him those harps. Now I am a crappy harmonica player with some really nice harps! I hope to be worthy someday...
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rbeetsme
333 posts
Dec 22, 2010
8:34 AM
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I have a mildly customized MB that a friend worked on for me, actually, the only Marine Band I own. After playing it awhile I contemplated trying some more. I found a guy selling NOS vintage MB's and considered buying a few. After Kevins' offer, and contacting him, I bought 2 each of 4 keys with the intention of reviewing his work vs. the stock MB. I found a couple more keys and shipped them off, a 6 key set. I'll post my impressions when they return. (BTW: Kevin charges more for MB's, a lot of work involved)
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chromaticblues
432 posts
Dec 22, 2010
12:00 PM
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@WV TOM
One thing at a time. Keep trying!
Blow Your Horn!
Yes as rbeetsme said My rate for customizing Marine Band 1896 is $50 a harp. That is complete customization of a useable harp. Not something with blown out reeds that is clearly worn out!
I am only selling new Crossovers, MB, MBD and SP 20's. After the first of the year I will only work on other peoples harps that are Marine Bands, MBD's, SP 20's and Crossovers. The rate will be $35 for SP 20's and $50 for all types of Marine Bands.
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catfish row
9 posts
Dec 22, 2010
3:17 PM
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You made my 20 year old unplayable Special 20 into a top notch instrument. Saying it was unplayable out of the box is not an exageration. It sure plays sweet now, though. It was literally the worst out of box harp I ever owned and it remained untouched for over two decades. I play it often now and it has even made several public appearances. I think I have just gotten my $20 back out it. ;)
I intend on purchasing some of your $75 harps from you. If you can make that piece of junk play like it does, I can only imagine what you can do with something that doesn't start out so bad.
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harpdude61
565 posts
Dec 22, 2010
4:59 PM
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@chromaticblues
You are still leaving out the classic Hohner that is in the price range of the others.....have you tried Golden Melodys? I might be interested in a couple if you can. They are held together with screws.
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chromaticblues
433 posts
Dec 22, 2010
8:06 PM
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@harpdude I haven't included the Golden Melody in my discussions yet because I'm testing some wooden combs. I don't want to make GM's with the original comb. I have some combs now. I just have to make a couple harps and play them for awhile. If I think they are great I'll offer GM's and SP20's with these combs. I have a couple cherry and one maple. I sanded the cerry combs and they were very flat. So thats a good sign. Any harps I sell with these custom wooden combs will be $100. These combs are a little thicker than the original combs. From what I've read this is suppose to make the harp sound fuller. I'll post something after I put a couple together. Hopefully after christmas I will be able to start posting you tube vids of some demonstrations. Its on my list anyway!
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Todd Parrott
261 posts
Dec 23, 2010
12:10 AM
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@chromaticblues - Much respect to you man! You seem to be a very good guy.
That's pretty cool about those combs for the GM's. I agree that the stock combs on the GM's need to be replaced with a (flat) custom comb, especially if you're gonna do all that work to the reeds. I don't know how much (if any) the comb material affects the actual tone, but I bet a GM on a maple comb would be a beautiful sight! At SPAH I saw a set of Marine Bands that Joe Spiers built for Bob Cohen on maple combs and I thought they were some of the classiest looking harps I'd ever seen.
I hope you'll post some pics of these combs or completed harps (GM and SP 20) once you finish them - that would be cool!
Last Edited by on Dec 23, 2010 12:11 AM
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earlounge
245 posts
Dec 23, 2010
7:36 AM
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@chromaticblues
I am also very interested in wood comb GM's. Do you have a website? I didn't find you on nacoran's customizer list.
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Rift
30 posts
Dec 23, 2010
10:52 AM
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You didnt say anything about Manji's. Will you still be working on those and or selling love. I love the one in D I got from you a few months ago. I am interested in a Bb next.
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chromaticblues
434 posts
Dec 23, 2010
12:57 PM
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@Rift Its hard for me to work on Manji's because I never feel like its right. I don't play them and the three draw drives nuts. If you want me to do another one I will. My distributer doesn't sell suzuki's. So you'll have to buy one and send it with a check for $50.
@earlounge I don't have a website. As of right now I have spent more money on new harps, new parts for harps than I've made. I've also done alot of trades with people. So I'm not really willing to get to crazy with this. As it is for the last two months I've been getting orders faster than I can do them. That all I need is website to intice more people.
I have posted my Email a number of times. If anyone has any questions. sbaker60@cox.net
@Todd Thanks Todd
I'm just a harp player like everyone else here.
I just like playing harps that work well.
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AirMojo
71 posts
Dec 23, 2010
1:08 PM
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@chromaticblues Okay I just have to know... what brand whiskey did you drink and what blues did you play ? Is it on YouTube ?
Man I hated those old Special 20's which is what I was buying back in the late 70's and early 80's before I started buying Lee Oskar's. I'm not sure I would want you to spend that kind of time turning those old turds into something really playable that I might sleep with.
Good for you that you have that kind of patience and talent ! God bless you !
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nacoran
3468 posts
Dec 23, 2010
1:25 PM
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Chromatic, do you want me to put your email on the customizers list?
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Nate
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Thread Organizer (A list of all sorts of useful threads)
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Tuckster
794 posts
Dec 23, 2010
2:46 PM
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Do you "tune up" MS series?
FWIW I think you should have your e-mail displayed in your user name, if you really want to make it more than a hobby. Otherwise, I have to scroll through old posts where you gave your e-mail.
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chromaticblues
435 posts
Dec 23, 2010
3:22 PM
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Thats a Good idea Tuckster. I'm new at this. Haven't got it figured out yet!
Yes Nacoran That is also agood idea. Thank You.
@AirMoJo I also played Lee Oskars back then. They were the best harp on the market for years.
The Man at the crossraods said it had to be OLD GRAND DAD. Tryin to get back on feet
Tuckster I did a Big River not long ago and it came out real well. It took alot of work. The MS harps really aren't that good. What I mean by that is the gap is really wide on those harps. I have to emboss the S**t out of it. Then I put double sised masling tape on the comb so in doesn't leak air. I feel guilty even saying this, but I'd have charge $50. The last one I did took 8 hours. I'll do them if you want though.
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Jaybird
219 posts
Dec 26, 2010
10:11 AM
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I purchased a Manji in D and it played terribly out of the box. Probably the worst out of the box harp I ever bought.
I sent it to Kevin, and he made it play properly.
I highly recommend his service.
Thanks Kevin.
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MP
1179 posts
Dec 26, 2010
10:33 AM
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--hey kevin!
was wondering if if i sent you one of my customs, would you mind giving it a critique?
not to work on it in any manner, just to play it and lemme know what you thought .
i'm thinking of doing harps for people other than just my friends.
i like your low key approach by the way.--------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Tuckster
799 posts
Dec 26, 2010
12:25 PM
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chromaticblues--That sounds like too much work,the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear. I'm slowly changing over to Manjis,although I'm not entirely satisfied with their tuning. After buying a Buddha harp,I'm beginning to understand the drawbacks of the MS system.
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bluesonthewater
5 posts
Dec 26, 2010
5:02 PM
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i would like you to do some harps for me. do you sell special 20s allready to go let me know thanks bluesride69@gmail.com
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Mojokane
203 posts
Dec 26, 2010
5:22 PM
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Eh! MP...
A little unsolicited gratitude...
The harps you just finished for me are awesome.
Thankyou so much.
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 1:26 PM
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MP
1182 posts
Dec 26, 2010
8:50 PM
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-thanks a ton Mojo, but i meant kevin aka chromaticblues. since he is a customizer, i wanted a customizers opinion. i already know you like my set-ups. sorry for the mix-up. ---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Mojokane
205 posts
Dec 26, 2010
11:11 PM
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well...you got mine, in spades.
and..your so very welcome a ton.
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DeakHarp
263 posts
Dec 27, 2010
4:45 AM
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@Cromatic
Its guys like you that makes the ecomony so messed up ...Its the reason we can still get only 3- 500 bucks a gig touring the states .. Because there is always a band that will play for 200 ....
You came in here 2 months ago offering to customize a harp for 20 frigging bucks ....Now you got the nerve to talk about Customizers ripping people off charging crazy prices for there work ....You have no website ...nobody ever heard of you ... You talk about making a deal in the crossroads in tutwiler ....Come on what a crock ....i been at this for 40 yrs almost ... Tuning harps for 20 yrs and setting them up ...I been to the crossroads so many times i cant count ....I lived with James cotton at his house in chicago ...While i was working for him ....and I never made no deal with anyone ... I got where i am because i worked at it for almost 40 yrs ....I bet you dont do half the stuff i do to my harps ..And now you come in here dissing repitabale builders ...and disturbing the going price for a good harp ...My tools to build harps cost over 2.000 $ .. And i do this full time .. Im not retired i been a full time musician since 1989 gave up my day job .. Got nothing saved up in SSI ... only income i have is playing harp / teaching / bulding harps/& CD"S ... Anyone will buy one of your harps for 50 $ .. But did you ever think of the busness you will be taking from other builders ? the food off there plate ? ... I dont think so ....It takes me somtimes 6- 10 hours
to build a harp corect .. It cost me 65 $ a hour to get my Conn Strobotuner fixed almost 300 dollars when it was all said and done .... just to add a little sodder somewere and replace a few parts ....2 hours labor ....But i have all the right tools to make good harps .And i know how to use them ...And I have a real nice website .... that cost me lots of money to keep up ....And my busness slowed down since you offered your Hoo Doo harps for dirt cheap ....I hope you are happy ...Folks you get what you pay for remember that .......I put my MOJO in my harps .. Not at the Crossroads Drunk ...
its guys l;
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Have Harp Will Travel
www.deakharp.com
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Chickenthief
68 posts
Dec 27, 2010
10:45 AM
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@chromaticblues -
I would like to thank you for the fine job that you did on the Bb manji that I sent you. You were upfront, told me what to expect, and you got that nasty 3 draw tamed to where the thing is actually usable.
@Deak -
I'm really sorry to hear that you are taking a hit. I think that for you it is just temporary. I hear that you are a good man and you are defenitly one of the next techs that I want to place an order with. I've read of your work and it seems to me that clearly your reputation is set and your prices are justified.
After a little back and forth with Kevin (chromaticblues) I would say he looks ok to me. I doubt that he is really trying to disrespect reputable customizers like yourself or upset the going price for a great custom harp. I'm guessing that Kevin simply occupies a different place on the path that you both walk. I'm betting that things being what they are his prices would eventually rise to better compensate him for his work. Again, just guessing, but I think that the low prices have something to do with the thing being that his reputation is not so long established and he is eager to get a chance to get more experience and develop his skills.
I hope that any slump that you or any other top flight techs hit will be fleeting. I want 10+ customs right now and under normal circumstances I would have been able to afford them 3 or 4 at a time.
My problem right now is that recent episode of mass insanity that overcame the banking / financial community which wrecked the housing market.
I'm not one of those who can make do with otb harps. My doit yourself success rate is stalled at something like a 60/40% chance that I can make small improvements without thoroughly fucking up. I've basicly come around to realize that I'm dependant on you, Kevin, anyone else who can put the tools in my hands that will enable me to get closer to the dream. Thanks for customizing. Hope theres room for both of you in this here town.
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Mojokane
206 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:11 PM
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It must be a full moon.
Nobody wants to wait a year for anything.
I don't care what you do to the harps. It ain't ROCKET SCIENCE. Treat this forum like you would close friends and nurture all of us. It's a mutually beneficial society.
Over head is one thing, competition is another.
Times are worse than tough...we're all trying to play better, too.
The tuning mystery is over.
Some tuners ARE better than others.
If you truly get what you pay for, then time will tell.
You surely can't make anyone come to you.
But...you surely can make them run from you...
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MP
1184 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:34 PM
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hey MojoKane,
please delete the post with Ds name. i don't want to look like some jackwagon in an online pity party saga.:) thanks:)
DEAK, sorry to hear of your financial woes, but i hardly think chromatic has single handedly torpedoed your biz. man, cowboy up!
i mean really, check out this knucklehead dude under harps for sale right here at MBH.
i will say that the very best customs are done with a strobe calibrated to a precision of exactitude one cannot achieve with lesser tuners.(i did band and symphony instrument repair for many years, i know what i'm talking about).
have two Bbs SP/20s that are a friends. one is a jimmy gordon and the other iv'e worked on. mine kicks the gordons ass. but guess what? the gordon is tuned so perfectly that it seems better in ways where it is actually deficient.
i need a strobe.---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 12:36 PM
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MP
1186 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:52 PM
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@toddlgreene,
no comprende. ??? but thanks! :)----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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toddlgreene
2322 posts
Dec 27, 2010
12:58 PM
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name removed to protect the innocent...check mojo's thread. He can delete his thread or modify it further...
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 12:59 PM
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MP
1188 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:03 PM
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-awesome todd! can you do his whole post?:) just kidding. well, half kidding.
i haven't been to NO since 93 (jazz and heritage fest) but if i ever go back i'll look you up if you don't mind. ---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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toddlgreene
2324 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:09 PM
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Technically, yes I could delete it, and if you are truly embarrased, offended or otherwise suffering a fit of the heebiejeebies, I will.
Look me or HarveyHarp up if you ever make it down to NOLA, and we will hook you up.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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MP
1189 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:15 PM
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-it's cool man.
you know, for minute there i thought you wanted to give me one of your large collection of strobe tuners.
re-NOLA. sounds great. maybe one of these days.............---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 1:17 PM
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Mojokane
207 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:16 PM
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done,
...what's all the fuss about? I get overly emotional when good thangs happen to friends.
But..your right, the world need not be a part of it, too.
It's a great day to start a new project.
I think I'll learn how to tune harps, and give some of these cats some competition...yuk yuk.
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 1:24 PM
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toddlgreene
2326 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:18 PM
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No strobe tuners here, MP. Must have me confused with Mr. Parrot. I've got a cheapie digital tuner that tells me little more than what my ear already knows-it's flat or sharp!
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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Mojokane
208 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:22 PM
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I can dig Deaks gripe.
Good suggestions from all, too.
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MP
1190 posts
Dec 27, 2010
1:22 PM
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--two todds too many. ;) NAW, Parrots cool. don't delete his [Parrots] posts.--------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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DeakHarp
264 posts
Dec 27, 2010
2:09 PM
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Thanks Mojo ..
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Have Harp Will Travel
www.deakharp.com
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DeakHarp
265 posts
Dec 27, 2010
2:15 PM
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Nobody is messing up my busness ...I just dident like the ripping off and more nonsense coment about good customizers ...
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Have Harp Will Travel
www.deakharp.com
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toddlgreene
2335 posts
Dec 27, 2010
2:23 PM
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It's a price point thing, methinks. No disrespect intended to anyone, but Chromatic was doing his services for a fee that truly isn't worth the labor, although I think that was an introductory thing. No businessman in his right mind can maintain a business for very long if he isn't paying himself duly for his labor time.
When customers are willing to pay a price, it's not too high, especially when they KNOW what quality they will(or better)receive in return. Anyone familiar with the mafia knows what would happen when the new guy would move in and undercut all the prices of the mafia...I'm just sayin'.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 2:24 PM
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rbeetsme
351 posts
Dec 27, 2010
3:38 PM
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Deak, I'm a photographer. Every little schoolgirl with a new camera is out trying to play photographer. Unfortunately, many consumers have been bombarded with images from facebook and think that what they are seeing is good enough. I don't pursue the high school markets anymore. They are getting what they pay for, snapshots. The way you survive is to pursue the commercial or professional client, they know the difference.
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Stevelegh
12 posts
Dec 27, 2010
3:58 PM
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@rbeetsme:
Spot on.
My wife is an amateur photographer and was looking at marketing herself to turn pro. Sadly (or not so sadly), she's also in big pharma and makes lots of money doing that, so when our friends started turning up on FaceBook offering cheap photoshoots as an introductory offer for their 'new business' (read: bought a 10 mpx camera), she got discouraged.
She's now learning to use her equipment and paying for courses in order to reach a standard where she'll earn the money. Of course, that'll mean time to gather a reputation, which she's willing to invest.
Chrom is making an offer for a job. Lots will take him up on that, but some will be willing to pay the extra for something else. I posted on a Tony Dannecker thread the other day and made a comparison to Joe Spiers' work. With respect to both they are apples and oranges, but there is enough space for both in the market.
All the best.
Steve
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chromaticblues
438 posts
Dec 27, 2010
5:10 PM
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@Deak I was refering to the two people that got booted off the forum last week. One of them had been going on about working on harps was easy and customizers are rippoffs. If you don't like my post don't read them. If your having a hard time, I'm sorry about that. I'm just doing what I'm doing. It has nothing to do with you or anyone else. I don't think I should charge more than I do. I feel that what I charge is a fair price! I was a pro harp player and I had to get a real job 12 years ago. I've never been able to get back into playing sence then. Every year I get further away from being a harp player. I'm not winning about it or complaining about the many harp players that I can play circles around that play for money. Things don't always work out.
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chromaticblues
439 posts
Dec 27, 2010
5:22 PM
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@chickenthief Yes your right about a couple things.
1st I'm not trying to make it hard on anyone one. That is most certainly not my goal!
2nd yes I'm offering harps cheaper because of the fact I haven't been selling harps for 20 years.
3rd I was a struggling musician in the ninties and I could not afford to have people work on harps for me so I learned how to do it myself.
4th If I can make it a little easier for harp players playing out to have good harps then I think I'm doing a good thing!
Yes MP you can send me a harp. I'll do the same thing for you that Richard Sleigh did for me. If I find something that can be better, I'll fix and give an explaination of what I did.
Last Edited by on Dec 27, 2010 6:06 PM
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chromaticblues
440 posts
Dec 27, 2010
6:12 PM
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I agree Joe. There is plenty of work!
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MP
1192 posts
Dec 27, 2010
7:02 PM
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who got booted? aside from hermonica. was it zhin?----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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chromaticblues
441 posts
Dec 28, 2010
10:40 AM
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I have decided to adjust my prices to make things more "fair". I sell New customized SP 20's For $75.
Golden Melodys (with custom wooden combs) for $100
Marine Band and Marine Band Deluxe for $100
Crossovers for $125
If anyone wants to send me a harp to work on it will be $50 and Marine Band 1896 and crossovers will be $75.
HooDoo Harps
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2010 1:56 PM
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MP
1193 posts
Dec 28, 2010
10:57 AM
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-jimmy gordon charges $135 for SP/20s. i don't know his other prices cuz i'm too lazy to go look. just thought i'd throw that out there as a comparison thing.
if i could justify my agenda with some sort of earmark grant from a gov pork barrel , i'd buy a top of the line Spiers MB with composite comb and all the bells and whistles.---------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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9000
51 posts
Dec 28, 2010
11:22 AM
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@chromaticblues: Thank goodness you adjusted your prices to "make things more fair"! I'd hate to see the government come in and start regulating the price of custom harmonicas!
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