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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Bolting Reeds
Bolting Reeds
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tleckie
5 posts
Dec 05, 2010
7:51 AM
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Hi,
Has anyone ever bolted reeds to the reedplates so that you can just change the reeds like on a Harrison? If so, what do I need for the job?
Any pointers would be really appreciated.
T
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MP
1072 posts
Dec 05, 2010
9:42 AM
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a lot of skill and patience are two things that come to mind. this sounds too ambitious to be practical.
when people replace bad reeds, one can set it up so that replaceing the new reed at a later date is less work. ie, useing a bolt as a post. but...
to remove all 20 reeds, install bolts into the plate, align all the reeds with new holes in them that are widened to accept the bolts,etc, etc, is far too much tedious work for any sane man to deal with.
hope this helps :)
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
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nacoran
3349 posts
Dec 05, 2010
11:33 AM
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I seem to remember a video of someone replacing a rivet with a bolt somewhere, but I think they were just replacing one bad reed. I'd think that the easiest way to go about wholesale replacement might be to ask Hohner or whoever to send you plates and reeds that haven't been put together yet. Another, non-Harrison solution I've wondered about is maybe making a special comb that would hold accordion or concertina reed plates. They use much smaller reed plates that only have a slot for one reed. If you made a comb right you would essentially be able to swap out the bad reed by removing the single reed plate. It would have to be made very carefully though to keep it airtight.
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Nate
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MP
1074 posts
Dec 05, 2010
12:39 PM
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replacing reeds with tiny bolts and nuts and washers is common place.
if you go to jims web site he has a video showing how he does it useing seydel tools.
brendan power has a vid where he replaces a reed on a suzuki made harp.
i think david payne may have one too.
many people prefer bolts to re-inserting rivets.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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jim
481 posts
Dec 05, 2010
3:20 PM
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It is possible with the seydel toolkit.
I've had one sp20 100% on bolts and must say it's not better.
If you think this will make reed replacement easier - you're wrong. You're only skipping one step (installing the bolt in the rivet hole) which takes 1 min MAXIMUM.
The longest step is centering the new reed and tuning it after the job is done. Screws and nuts will not save you from this. If a reed is screwed, its replacement will still drive you nuts :)
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www.truechromatic.com
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2010 3:21 PM
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barbequebob
1453 posts
Dec 06, 2010
7:43 AM
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I had one of those kits that the now long defunct F&R Farrell used to sell. It is a VERY time consuming project. For harp manufacturers, it is both too costly and time consuming, especially in regards to labor costs.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
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toddlgreene
2189 posts
Dec 06, 2010
7:59 AM
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Replacing the reeds with bolts is commonplace. Harvey has done this for me a few times on my harps, and of different makes, not just MBs. He can probably shed some light on this as well.
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Todd L. Greene, Codger-in-training
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MrVerylongusername
1396 posts
Dec 06, 2010
9:09 AM
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Assuming we're talking about a single reed for replacement, is it better to enlarge and tap the rivet hole, or fix with a nut. Given the very small size, I'd be worried about inhaling a loose nut, but maybe I'm just a paranoid loose nut! ;-)
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HarveyHarp
161 posts
Dec 06, 2010
10:58 AM
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Rick Epping told me once, at a SPAH seminar back in the late 90s, that part of the sound of the Hohner Reeds is the fact that the edges of the hole in the reed grabs the rivit, and the rivet is just used to hold the assembly on to the plate, rather than the reed being pressed tight to the plate by the rivet. He said that it is preferable to rivet replacement reeds on the plate, rather than bolt them in, but if you must bolt them in, use the side of the nut that domed, and not flat so that it does not make full contact with the reeds, but just the edges of the holes.
To me, however, both sides of the little 00-90 brass nuts looked to be the same. I started using 0-80 flathead screws from the reed side of the plate under the assumption that only the bevel of the screw would touch the reed, which would accomplish the same goal. This worked fine, as long as the holes in the reed and the holes in the plate were both centered. If one of them was off a little, which is normal because of manufacturing tolerances, the the beveled screw tended to indtall the reed off center, and I had to install the screw from the back of the plate and attach the reed with a nut.
Personally, my ear could not tell the difference between the two methods, but not using the nut was faster and cheaper. So, I started using 0-80 panhead screws from the reed side of the plate, which allowed me to center the reeds, and also move the down to make them fit the slot better, etc.
Today, what I do is this. If I am using a ueed Hohner Reed, then I leave the rivet stuck in the good reed, and fasten it to the plate by just crimping it it. If it lines up OK, then I leave it that way. It is very easy and fast to do. If it winds up off center, then I use the above mentioned screw method.
Also, for non Hohner reeds, in which the rivets do not stay in the reeds, I use the screw method always. Personally, I am not good at attaching new reeds to plates with new rivits. Sometimes I get it right, but normally I just revert to the screw method. If someone can clue me in to the correct way to do thiswith rivets, I would appreciate it.
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nacoran
3356 posts
Dec 06, 2010
11:15 AM
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If I was going to use this on a production run of harps I think it might be a good idea to put a groove on the reed plate that the reed could sit in to keep it centered. Someone with a CnC machine might be able to adjust reed plates that way. Of course, with the reed essentially sitting in the slot instead of above it it might throw everything off.
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Nate
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MrVerylongusername
1397 posts
Dec 06, 2010
12:16 PM
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Interesting.
Thinking back to the deleted, reverse-engineered Filisko thread; there was mention of wax under the reed at the rivet end...
Hmmm...
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mlefree
30 posts
Dec 07, 2010
10:59 AM
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Here's my take on repacing reeds.
Rule #1: If it works don't fix it, by which I mean I only replace reeds that need to be replaced.
If a reed has reached the end of its life, I like to remove it and its rivet with a punch then and tap the rivet hole in the reed plate to accept a 0-80 screw. The hole in the reed has to be enlarged to clear the 00-80 screw with a reamer. Then jim had it right, the real work begins with centering and tuning the reed.
The problem is that the rivet hole is often not centered on the axis of the slot. You have to compensate by making the hole in the reed big enough to allow a little slop. Some people use a slip of paper held in a U-shape down into the slot, cradling the reed to center it. I use one of those security strips from DVD cases held into the slot as I tighten the screw to keep the reed from spinning out of the slot. (Did I mention that I have 3 hands? ;^) After the new reed has been tuned the harp is ready to go (anytime you do ~anything~ to a reed it must be retuned).
I'm easy on my harps, so I rarely have to replace a reed. (Most of the reeds I replace are on ancient harps that I'm rebuilding.) Almost invariably when I have to replace a reed on one of my kit harps it's a 5-draw reed. So, on the few harps on which I have had replaced he reed, it's simple to just screw on a new one. But then the centering and tuning job begins again.
Sometimes I wonder if the sage Richard Sleigh is right. He replaces reeds with new rivets and is in one swell foop pretty much done with the mechanics of attaching them.
Bottom line: I'd never undertake to replace ~all~ he reeds in a harp. Chances are you'd be replacing 90-95% of them needlessly. My 2 cents: replace 'em only as needed by whatever method you prefer and spend the rest of your harptime playing 'em.
Michelle
Last Edited by on Dec 07, 2010 11:01 AM
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