Xpun3414
139 posts
Nov 26, 2010
8:57 AM
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Ok,well @ first I loved my MB. Still love the sound it makes BUT.. FUCK! the Marine Band. (Sorry for the bad language) Its been nothing but trouble since I got it. Not a day passed & my comb swelled like a damn blow fish. 6 teeth have never gone back down, 6!. All the teeth are loose & now the friggin nails are just simply fallin out. IVE HAD IT ! Thanks Hohner, I'll be changing the brand of harp's I buy from now on. You had your chance.
And PLEASE.. dont respond with,oh well just buy a new one & fully seal the comb Or.. Just replace the nails with screws. Or.. Just go buy an SP20. Or.. buy the MB deluxe.
NO, no, no, & no. Hohner had their chance..now I move on.
So Now I ask you all...what are some good harps to buy. Im only one harp in on my collection so its not like I have to start all over & replace a bunch of them,thankfully. Im gonna start with a C harp of course. then maybe a Bb.. but what are some GOOD brands/models to buy. And no..I dont want any wood comb based harps ;)
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saregapadanisa
286 posts
Nov 26, 2010
9:12 AM
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Sad to say, you'll have to change your signature, too :o)
You're doomed to have a Suzuki experience...
(Have a look at the Manji thread)
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Xpun3414
140 posts
Nov 26, 2010
9:21 AM
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Saw that,you mean about the 3draw troubles,right? That I can handle.. thats fixable. I dont mind having to deal with the reeds,that just part of it. But all that other stuff is unreal. No need really..I mean really..WTF !?!
& yes in fact IM changing my signature now.
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saregapadanisa
287 posts
Nov 26, 2010
9:37 AM
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Seriously, I find the Manji to be a pretty good harp, very responsive, nice bright tone, well priced.
And it's supposed to be Suzuki answer to the MB (do not disown your first love).
My only concern with it is my own playing comfort. I have a rather small mouth, and the Manji is somehow wider in height, meaning I have to bite a bigger piece. But that's just me and my physiology.
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Icemaster
3 posts
Nov 26, 2010
9:40 AM
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Not trying to sound like a jerk but these are all know weaknesses with marine bands. It's like buying a car with a V8 and complaining about gas mileage. People don't buy them because of how they implement modern technology or are great out of the box. They buy them for the tone and for the history. I wouldn't recommend starting on one because beginners salivate more and probably don't realize how to properly maintain a marine band. Now I'm not saying your complaint is unreasonable but it was almost inevitable that this would happen. I wouldn't give up on Hohner completely. They have plenty of great modern harps. I have a manji on the way so I can't give you an opinion on that yet. Just my two cents from an intermediate perspective. And the silver lining is you get to buy a new harp and you can't beat that feeling.
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eharp
960 posts
Nov 26, 2010
9:53 AM
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bushman delta frost is what i would suggest.
the easiest bending harp i have ever played.
to avoid frustration in buying one, i would call john hall at bushman and ask which ones he has in stock for immediate delivery.
i think he is selling them for $25 till the end of the month w/ free delivery.
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hvyj
848 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:05 AM
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Suzuki Hammond. Best OOB harp made, IMHO.
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jodanchudan
153 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:16 AM
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For what it's worth, I had exactly the same problem with swelling teeth (the harp's that is, not mine) with every MB I bought. I gave up on them for a while, then bought another a few months later - no swelling this time, and ditto with all the ones I bought after that. Turns out, like Icemaster said, that the problem was my technique, not the harp.
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snakes
593 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:18 AM
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I would agree in part with Icemaster, but especially with the comment about not buying a MB when less than an advanced intermediate in skill level. I have about 6 MB's in different keys. Only one of them is one I'd use while jamming or playing out. I'm only an intermediate I should add and I do buy MB customs.
But for me Suzuki is the way to go. The Bluesmaster is a relatively cheaply priced option, although I play Fire Breath's and Manji's. If you can afford $67.00 per harp the Fire Breath tone is awesome and the rosewood comb is sealed so there is no swelling. Otherwise I'd advise the Manji as the second option. I also own Promasters and if you like a metal comb these are sweet harps as well. A final plug for the Suzuki I just recently found out myself while researching potential allergy issues with metals. Suzuki will gap you harps for you free if by the very slim chance you get a bad one out of the box. I was talking with a guy named Gary Lehman who works for Suzuki in the USA and that is what he does. He basically fixes any out of the box problems that come to his workbench. He's kind of like the Maytag repair man though, because they are so good at quality control he cannot get enough work to work full time. Call the 800 number on their website and find out for yourself if you don't believe me.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 10:19 AM
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Xpun3414
141 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:24 AM
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@ Icemaster : "Not trying to sound like a jerk but..."
Not at all. You have a valid point here. BUT. Ive asked around ie: forums,chats,emails,reviews & so on.. YET,none had spoken on these troubles when I asked before I bought one. So yeah,I kinda went in blind,after the fact.Thinkin it was a great harp. Again,love the sound it makes,but thats as far as it goes for me now.
P.S. Im keeping a running tab on the "good harp" to buy thing. Thought its early in the thread,Suzuki seems to have a one up thus far.
Any ideas about this one, Im REALLY liking the looks of this one,but looks are not everything,could use a bit of info on it,if anyone has used it :
Pitcher:
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secm_yNTo_g_5Y/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/15201/SubProducts/15201C&ViewAction=IC_ViewProductDetail
Info :
http://www.seydel1847.de/epages/Seydel.sf/secm_yNTo_g_5Y/?ObjectPath=/Shops/Seydel/Products/15201/SubProducts/15201C
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 10:29 AM
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LeonStagg
195 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:37 AM
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+1 to eharp's recommendation, the delta frost is a good,affordable,comfortable playing harp.
(I still prefer to play mbs and sp20s, but that's just me)
Good luck!
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MP
1038 posts
Nov 26, 2010
10:59 AM
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hvyj is vindicated again. (he hates oob MB 1896s)- i think they suck too, unless you make a project out of them.- then they are wonderful.
go with e-harp Leon, but buy from rockin'ronsmusic4less.
the bushman delta frost is made buy suzuki.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 11:00 AM
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snakes
595 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:00 AM
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For what it is worth I also own some Seydel's => 1847 Classic, 1847 Silver, and a Blues Session. They are nice harps (my fav is the 1847 Classic), but I still prefer Suzuki's.
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hvyj
849 posts
Nov 26, 2010
12:05 PM
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Btw, on a scale of 1 to 10, Suzuki customer service rates a 12.
I started playing Suzukis Hammonds about 3 years ago. All in all I've purchased about 38 Suzuki harps(Hammonds, Promasters, Firebreaths and a Fabulous). There were minor problems with 3 of them, and Suzuki customer service took care of those very promptly and with no hassle--no proof of purchase, no BS, just send 'em in, they fix them (and fix them properly) and send them right back. Not like dealing with Hohner where they try to convince you that your playing technique is the cause of whatever problem you are complaining about.
Recently acquired a set of custom Buddha Harps, so my Hammonds are now my back up set, but i still like them a lot. Btw, Hammonds are NOT just Promasters in black. The combs are machined better, so they play a lot better than Promasters and their tone is darker. Love my Hammonds.
@MP: Oh, yes. I do think OOB MBs are the crappiest harmonicas on the planet.
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Xpun3414
142 posts
Nov 26, 2010
12:17 PM
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Ok..How about a good "American made" harp ?
& from What Im seeing,the Hammonds are Promasters only better ??
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snakes
598 posts
Nov 26, 2010
12:20 PM
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The only American made harp that I'm aware of is the Harrison B-Rad. I waited some time for mine (over a year), but it is truly an awesome harmonica.
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MP
1039 posts
Nov 26, 2010
12:38 PM
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@hvyj,
i agree, but only the oob 1896 model MB. the other three MBs i really like.
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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hvyj
851 posts
Nov 26, 2010
12:51 PM
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@MP: I haven't tried any of the other MB models. Actually, I don't like the tonal qualities of vented covers. I prefer the sound of harps with full length UNvented covers.
This has nothing to do with the quality of the instrument. It's purely subjective. Manjis, like MBs, have vented covers--and I don't particularly like how Manjis sound, either. Manjis are good harps, though. But, I think the Hammonds are nicer, FWIW.
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Rubes
148 posts
Nov 26, 2010
1:27 PM
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My kit is a mixed bag of MBs,LOs, Suzis, and one 1847 classic. Most I've tinkered with a 'tad', but the Seydel is def. best OOTB.( I have blown a high reed with Seydel promptly replacing whole plates! :~))
My two MBs have slight protrusions after 6-8 months and I'm saving up for some of Buddhas 'old jeans combs'! but they're still very playable. Hard to go past their tone tho, (just ask Adam).
In the eighties I played a MB365 for a while with NO swelling but recently have tried two more in quick succession (sent first one back & had BAD service experience from Australian Hohner distributor ) and both suffered EXTREME swelling, but I'm expecting a Randy Sandoval multicoloured corian comb any day now (woo-hoo!)
My Hammond could run a close second for quality, despite occassional slight 'galvanising' sensations (I have a few fillings).
Anyway, my two cents worth harmonica brother!!!
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nacoran
3302 posts
Nov 26, 2010
1:54 PM
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I like my Seydel Blues Favorite, but they are pricey. In a head to head show down I think even as a non-overblower I'd take a SP20 over a Lee Oskar, but not by much and Lee Oskars are tough little harps. There are a lot of fans of Seydel 1847's (they have several models now, and you can get full length covers as special orders) and lots of Manji fans. Either one will run about as much as MB Crossover though.
$20 harps-
Hohner Big Rivers
$30 harps-
Bushmasters (I hear good things)
Lee Oskars (They aren't for OBers but they are tough)
MB (Possible wood swelling issues and nails)
SP20 (Good harp, you may want to open the backs)
Golden Melodies (Good harps)
Promasters (I hear good things)
$50 harps-
Manji's
Blues Favorites
1847's
Crossovers
Then you get low tuned harps, Meisterklasse, Hammonds, Harrisons, Customs, etc.
Here is a more complete list:
(some sites list the price on the site, some you have to go to another site to get the price.)
Suzuki
Easy Rider $7.95
Folkmaster $15.95
Harpmaster $35.95
Bluesmaster 37.95
Promaster $59.95
Promaster (Valved) $69.95
Promaster Gold (Valved) $129.95
Seydel
1847 Classic $89.95
1847 Silver $89.95
1847 Silver+ $89.95
1847 Noble $109.95
1847 Limited Edition- Are you crazy?
Big 6 Folk or Blues $36.99
Blues Favorite $69.96
Blues Session $29.95
Soloist $34.95
Soloist Pro $39.95
Soloist Pro 12 $69.95
Lee Oskars ($35ish?)
(Major, Natural Minor, Harmonic Minor, Melody Maker)
Tombo (Really hard to get in U.S.)
Aero Reed
Ultimo
Folk Blues
Harrison
B-Radical $180
Hering
1923
Huang
Other Brands:
Johnson
Bee
Merano
Hohner-
MB
MB Deluxe
MB Crossover
SP20
Golden Melody
Blues Bender
(MS System)
Blues Harp
Pro Harp
Cross Harp
Big River Harp
Meisterklasse
(Standard Line)
Great Little Harp
American Ace
Fuego Azul
Hot Metal
Official Scout
Old Standby
Pocket Pal
(Signature Artist)
Bob Dylan
Steven Tyler
(Additional Models)
XB-40
MB 364
MB-365
MB Soloist
MB SBS
Piccolo
Piedmont
225 Harp
(Historic)
Echobell
Trumpet Call
Puck/Double Puck
Hamonette and Harponette
These are the brands that
Hohner
Tombo
Suzuki
Seydel
Bends
Hering
Harrison
Huang doesn't have a site.
Aside from a custom, don't buy a harp that's not one of those brands. If people are interested I'll come back later and get more models added to the list.
You say not to recommend another Hohner. What you've got to remember with the Marine Band is that it a very old design. Lots of people like that design. Lots of people don't. Any wooden comb that isn't burnished or sealed runs the risk of swelling. That's why they have sealed models too. For around $20 you can get a custom comb to replace the one you've got. That's probably the simplest way to save the harp you are having problems with. On the cost tree it goes unsealed wood or plastic, then sealed wood or metal. If you want to stay on the cheap end, go plastic. I like plastic combs. I also like metal and sealed wood. The only combs I've tried I don't like are unsealed wood.
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 2:36 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
890 posts
Nov 26, 2010
2:35 PM
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i said F the MB when i first started, then i up and left the house without my D harp. the music store only had MB's in D. force the hand, and the wallet. WOW what a beautiful D it is. far and away the best id ever played. and ive never had swelling problems with any wood harp.
eh? i say i got a really good one, and you got a huge pile of shit one... it happens dude.
manjis are a great alternative, I have two of em...
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eharp
962 posts
Nov 26, 2010
2:41 PM
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nacoran's idea of buying a comb is a good one.
i feel your frustration of paying money for something that, to you anyhow, aint adequate. but you do have good plates and cover out of the deal. no need for it to be a total loss.
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Rev. Jim
36 posts
Nov 26, 2010
4:20 PM
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I thought this was going to be a thread about the MB key of F, which is next on my list. I guess F has a different meaning here.
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nacoran
3308 posts
Nov 26, 2010
4:52 PM
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Rev. Jim, I have an F, a Low F and a LLF. There is a huge difference in the sound between them. A lot of people prefer the Low F to the regular F. I think most of the brands come in the Low (only Seydel makes the Low Low). Depending on what sound you are going for, it's a fun question. :)
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Nate
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Rev. Jim
37 posts
Nov 26, 2010
5:55 PM
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Thanks Nacoran. I have a low F, which I love. Regular F is next.
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chromaticblues
332 posts
Nov 26, 2010
6:32 PM
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@xpun Yeah the Marine Band is a pain in the ass, but If you had a modified Marine Band you would think differently. I know it sucks to have to pay $100 for a good harp, but just buying harps of the shelf and expecting them to be good just isn't going to happen. Harmonicas are cheap instruments. We have to be able to deal with it! Thats the hard part. I know what your going thru. I played Lee Oskars in the late eighties up to ninty six because it was the best qaulity harp at the time. Hohners just sucked at the time and back then there weren't to many choices. I know you didn't want to hear it, but Special 20's aren't bad.
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Xpun3414
145 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:15 PM
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@ eharp : Good point,BUT, Ive now lost 3 nails, WTF! I pick up my harp today start to play & the covers seem to be moving. So I look & wouldn't you guess,the 2 nails on the upper right cover plate are missing,they were there just minutes ago.. & I also noticed that a nail was now missing from the bottom left cover plate as well. As Albert King put it.. If it weren't for bad luck,I wouldn't have no luck at all. Ive really had enough of this 1/2 ass harp. & I mean 1/2 ass as the only good thing about it is the sound. SO it seems as though Im going with a Suzuki harp next. Maybe the Hammond or Manji in C. Suzuki seems to be the BIG winner here so far.
Now.. Tell me all the short commings of THIS harp before I buy one..cause if I have to deal with this type of thing again w/another harp.. well then.. Im done playin' I REFUSE to go through this again.
Ive had the MB for just a bit over a month & a 1/2 now. Unreal. Its one thing to have to tweak the reeds a bit or fully seal the comb.Thats fine. But all this & now the nail thing too !!!?! Naaaa,I dont need it. FUCK the marine band 1896.
(Agian,I apologize for the harsh language, but I have to vent this out. Anyone that follows my posts knows I speak better then this. Im just sooo damned frustrated about this.)
And thank you all for the great input once again. As always,a BIG help.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 11:23 PM
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oldwailer
1420 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:35 PM
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You might want to consider what there is to love about the MB--then see if you can find it somewhere else. I wouldn't ask so much about what brand to buy--there are a lot of good ones--but how they are tuned and what kind of a sound they produce (assuming your technique is OK).
I tune my own, but OOTB, I would prefer MB over any that I have tried.
I like the Bushman a lot too--once they are retuned to something very close to a MB. . .
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hvyj
853 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:39 PM
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@Xpun3414: The only shortcoming of the Suzuki Hammond is that it is a little tougher to hit the 3 hole half step draw bend at pitch. For some reason, this harp wants to drop to the whole step 3 draw bend and it can be a little bit of a challenge to hit the the 3 draw half step bend accurately. Not impossible or anything like that, but a little more difficult than a Hohner on that particular bend. But, after playing Hammonds as my performing set for about 3 years, that is the ONLY shortcoming I've experienced.
Compression and response are far superior to any Hohner, and Hammonds have a very even tone from hole to hole across the registers. Of course, they are equal temperament, and MBs have a compromise tuning, but I only play ET since I find I am much more in tune with the other musicians in the band using ET harps.
MBs have vented covers which affects their tone. Hammonds have full length UNvented covers which gives them a darker and more focused tone, which i happen to prefer. The holes on Suzukis harmonicas are very slightly smaller and very slightly closer together than holes on Hohner harps which means you may or may not have an adjustment period before you get used to them.
I don't OB, so I have no opinion on how good Hammonds are for OBs. But they are really nice instruments. Best OOB harps I've ever played.
Btw, I'm in total agreement with you about MBs. I'm astounded that people actually buy them. Go figure.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2010 11:44 PM
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oldwailer
1421 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:44 PM
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So, I guess we could say the ET players suck one hole at a time, and Compromise players suck two or more at a time--so you could say that the MB players are more likely to suck more at any given moment? :)
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hvyj
854 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:49 PM
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@oldwailer:Btw, contrary to the folklore, I don't find that chords sound particularly bad on either my Hammonds or my Buddha Harps (which are also tuned to pure ET).
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Ant138
669 posts
Nov 26, 2010
11:55 PM
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I won't play Hohner either. I've tried to love them but i can't. Nearly every Hohner i've had with the exception of the Special 20 has been rubish, very low quality. I only play Seydel harps now:o)
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http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
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SuperBee
43 posts
Nov 27, 2010
6:10 AM
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sometimes it seems like Frank is back, using a different name. i thought this was gonna be about the key of F too...which would possibly have been more interesting...
i reckon this kind of debate is kinda silly..they are all a bit different...some of the differences are quite objective, others are just personal preference. i reckon there is more inherent difference between keys than brands or models...but my bottom line is just to try things and find out what you like...
learning to play a harp in F was a great step forward for me...along with learning to play a customised D harp, i reckon it has taken my playing to another level re breath control...still a long way to go but the lessons learned in playing an F have set me up for greater control and sensitivity across the full range of the harp
FWIW my favourite harps ATM are the custom MBs i got from Henry Slim in Bristol, but i used to really love Hohner BHs...i still like them, just not as much as Henry's customs.
I have one standard MB which had a few probs with swelling; my fault for being a slobbery dog. i was practicing a song with lots of tongue blocking...loads of slaps and pulls on the 3hole...those first three tines swelled right up. i just carved the excess off with my knife and its fine...but i do think they are a pain to pull apart with those nails, which is why i paid Henry for 2 he had worked on.
The longer i play these the more i have grown to love them. At first i couldnt play the C harp i had from him very well at all, but i used the D because i didnt have a good alternative. it forced me to play more sensitively...i was playing Born in Chicago and kept jamming the reeds on the fast runs..it was obviously my technique at fault...anyway, that forced adaptation led to the discovery of what a good harp the C he made for me actually is...its not even a new one. its a secondhand one from the 90's which he renovated. i just realised its become my harp of choice now...
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oldwailer
1422 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:04 AM
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@hvyj--I'm not talking folklore--and I'm not saying the ET harps sound "particularly bad"--I'm just saying that, to my ears, they don't sound as good as compromised tuned harps if you are using a lot of chords.
There are a lot of great players who make wonderful music with either tuning approach. I'm no great player, but I prefer the sound of a compromised tuning when I'm playing.
Your ears may vary. . .
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eharp
965 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:23 AM
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"Ive now lost 3 nails, WTF!"
lol
(not laughing at you, but laughing with you. (which i hope you are doing to get thru this.)
screws are available, too.
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hvyj
856 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:33 AM
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@oldwailer: "they don't sound as good as compromised tuned harps if you are using a lot of chords."
True. But, I find that all the flat notes in compromise tuning puts me less in tune with the band. This is so in ANY position but is more obvious in position above third. Anyway, given the choice, personally, I'd rather be in tune with the band than in tune with myself.
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barbequebob
1448 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:35 AM
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If you're having problems with the swelling, one thing is obvious you haven't considered is your playing technique, Most players who use too much breath force usually tend to play with a very wet mouth and so comb swelling is no surprise there. Some combs also swel based on where on the tree the comb was cut from and the closer it was cut to the knot of the tree, the greater the likelihood of swelling, but much of the time, it's usually people who play too hard and with a wet mouth that tend to have the problem the most.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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hvyj
857 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:56 AM
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@barbequebob: You sound like a Hohner customer service rep. According to them, ANY problem with a Hohner harmonica is due to poor playing technique.
Human beings have saliva in their mouth and the reality is that a certain amount of moisture is deposited on/in any wind instrument when you play it (including harmonica combs) and this remains so no matter how refined the player's technique may be. MBs are made with cheap crappy combs that swell. The low quality of the comb is an objective reality that exists independently of playing technique.
Now, I recognize that because of the vented covers and relatively large air channels in the comb, MBs have a distinctive sound that appeals to many players. But Suzuki has pretty much re-created that sound with the Manji which is a much higher quality instrument regardless of one's playing technique.
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jbone
442 posts
Nov 27, 2010
7:58 AM
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lots of valid points made here already. i am with xpun (kyzer?) in a couple of regards. 1- i want to buy a harp and play it, not mess with it. ever buy a new car and immediately have to pull it half apart and make it work "right"? no.
2- the design of the mb is in fact old, which can be a good thing. IF the design works. which pearwood was used and is used because it's easy to get and cheap, not for any superior comb-making qualities. it's porous crappy wood. good for the fireplace.
3- i used mb's very little after the sp20 was put on the market because the swelling comb issue was just not there with a plastic comb. even after i became a less spitt-y player i stuck with them because the mb was nailed together and the sp20 was much easier to pull reed plates off for serious cleaning. and eventually i tried a lot of different plastic comb harps just to avoid the issues i had with mb's.
4- imho hohner has really dropped the ball even with the deluxe and crossover harps. i may be wrong and please correct me if i am but aren't the reed plates the same on the 1896, deluxe, and crossover? suzuki has kicked hohner's ass with high precision made and mounted reeds on a lot of their harps. not to say you can't blow out a suzuki reed but i'm still playing my manji in D which is over a year old now, and i'm not so kind sometimes when i get into a good solo with a loud band. currently i have 6 manji's in my case. hohner has always traded on their name and mass production, which is fine. but when quality degrades it is NOT fine any more.
sure i'm somewhat taken with the idea of a sealed comb custom mb. i just can't afford too many. i did work a deal about 10 years ago and got 2 custom mb's for a box of dead harps of various brands and models, and i loved those easy-playing rounded edge screwed together harps. but i was not out of pocket anything past shipping a box to a guy.
suzuki manji was developed off the idea of a precision instrument that was really easy to play and affordable for joe average while also being well made and incorporating new tech advances in every day application. in fact if you continually blow out other harps and have to keep replacing them or replacing reed plates (some makers do offer plate sets for near as much as a fresh harp), it makes sense to me to go with a harp that is built well, tuned well, and durable. or hey- pay more for a better made mb with the same old reed plates. no thanks.
i've tried a lot of makes and models over 35+ years. i was always looking for a harp that i could not kill but that sounded good. over many years i had to face that my attack was way too hard and i changed how i played. even so my harps of choice always died in months or sometimes weeks. hohner in particular made plenty of $$ off my bad habits but also off their less-than-current design and manufacturing. suzuki is the company that i feel really addressed the desires of a certain set of players, myself included.
if $44 a harp is too much, suzuki makes some cheaper but very good harps as well. i'm pretty well sold on suzuki be it bluesmaster, harpmaster, or some of their better and pricier harps. next chromatic i buy will be a suzuki csx when i can afford to.
speaking of chromatics, i just acquired a hohner 270, barely played. i tried it out and almost immediately put it up for sale. same issues as the mb to me. leaky, nailed together, just a substandard chromatic thanks to hohner sticking with old old technology and manufacturing concepts. for the same price i can get a hering chromatic that is well made, tuned nicely, and durable. my current bari C from hering is about 3 years old now and still no issues with it, and easy as hell to play. or as i say, for the same price i can get a csx from suzuki, whose customer service and pricing are more user friendly.
easy to see, i'm pretty well in the suzuki camp. banf for the buck is what i like. i AM getting a b radical but i'm pretty sure it will just be the one unless i win the lotto. i'm also about to order a custom mb from a good friend who is also a killer harpman. his prices are in my neighborhood at least for one. i know him and he does great repair work on his stuff as well. but that will be an exception. i still demand high quality mass produced dependable instruments for my everyday use.
all of the above is my opinion only, and not meant as a challenge or insult. please take it or leave it as you see fit. our experiences and our level of maturity is reflected in the comments we make on a forum, and i hope mine are not offensive to anyone. except maybe hohner, who i'd like to see get really into the third millennium!
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hvyj
858 posts
Nov 27, 2010
8:06 AM
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On the matter of durability, I played a set of Suzuki Hammomds 2-3 nights most weeks for over 2 1/2 years without any reeds going bad. A couple of months ago I replaced the reed plates in my C because I thought they were just starting to go very slightly flat. All 11 other keys are still going strong.
Pretty good durability, IMHO. You'll never get that sort of useful life out of any Hohner.
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captainbliss
302 posts
Nov 27, 2010
9:01 AM
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I think BBQBob is on the money when he draws attention to
/playing technique./
IMHO there's a peculiar madness with students of the harmonica which makes them obsess about the limitations of brand X harmonica rather than their own limitations as a maker of music.
More practice, less purchasing?
xxx
PS As for the MB being no good... Our host's recordings with Mr. Satan are all, AFAIK, made on OOTB MBs. As are nigh on all of his YouTube vids. Phil Wiggins sounds pretty good to me, too. AFAIK he plays OOTB MBs. Etc.
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Philippe
31 posts
Nov 27, 2010
10:20 AM
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hvyj, I tend to agree with BBQBob. My first harp was a MB in G (bad idea!!). It swelled like crazy within a few days. A year or so later, as my tecnique got better, by new MB in Bb hardly swelled since I have had it (month ago).
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Dog Face
39 posts
Nov 27, 2010
10:28 AM
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I had a Marine Band in Bb. I never experienced the comb swelling and didn't understand where people were coming from when they were talking about it..... until it went through the wash in my khakis. Tragic.
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Dyslexics are teople poo.
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MP
1052 posts
Nov 27, 2010
11:00 AM
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like i said, unless your MB 1896 is worked on and becomes a wonderful instrument, it's the beast of all oob harps.
it will probably lack in ease as far as playability goes. this includes light feathery passages, quick response with light breath force etc. it will demand much more technique and effort.
i won't even bother with swelling issues.
i think in another thread someone mentioned adam and phil wiggins as playing and recording on oob MB 1896s.
of course they can be played. most any oob can be made to work.
but, this requires what i call muscular playing.
adam is a muscular type player as is phil wiggins. they work the harp.
back in the day i used 1896s and made them work. with the guys i ran with it was a macho competition thing. (circa 1972) it was fun.
not only did you have to have chops, you had to work with a leaky toothy nail loseing beast.
there were few choices in harps back then. no SP/20s GMs SUZUKIs LOs (SEYDELS ,cold war) etc.
now, there are so many options, that if i was new to the harp i wouldn't know what to get.(i'm bad with restaurant menus, too much info)
see nacorans menu. holy krishna!
the 'what harp to buy/TNfrank' question strikes me as pretty much unanswerable. people can only give you suggestions.
what's the NIKE slogan?
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2010 11:04 AM
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the_happy_honker
47 posts
Nov 27, 2010
2:05 PM
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Just about any harp over $30 is a playable harp for beginners/intermediates. The real question is whether you like the sound of it and the feel of it in your mouth and that is something only you can answer.
Hohner Handmades:
Marine Band - you love it, you hate it, welcome to the club.
Special 20 - Good value for the money
Golden Melody - It has an odd, reedy tone that I dislike.
MB Deluxe - A better MB? Yes, but also more expensive.
MB Crossover - Haven't tried it, but forum consensus seems to be that it compares to the Manji. But more expensive, of course.
Hohner MS Series: Forum consensus - meh.
ProHarp: Mediocre in every way.
Meisterklasse: An OK harp, vastly overpriced.
Like many on this forum, I am partial to Suzukis. The build quality of their harps is obviously superior to Hohner and they are more comfortable to play.
Suzuki Harpmaster, Bluesmaster
I have a fondness for the Harpmaster. Bluesmaster is Suzukis take on the Special 20 - it is too muted and not there, tonewise.
Manji - a very good harp in build quality and tone. But I don't understand the comparison to MB's. Apples and oranges.
Hammond. Hvyj is right - these are the real deal. I bought one. Then I bought six more. I gave one to my teacher. He went and bought six more. They kick Meisterklasse's ass out the door and 'round the parking lot. A tad darker than the Promaster without sounding muted, good tone from holes 1 to 10.
Tombo Folk Blues - OK, but a bit trebly and lacks punch.
Lee Oskar Major Diatonic - Many attest to their durability. The treblyness in keys above C is irritating.
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eharp
968 posts
Nov 27, 2010
2:16 PM
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"what's the NIKE slogan?"
buy over priced, foreign made shoes that aint gonna possible make you
as good as an over-paid athlete you are using as a role model?
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MP
1056 posts
Nov 27, 2010
4:15 PM
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hah! that's it !
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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steve j.
79 posts
Nov 28, 2010
10:32 AM
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I bought a Spec 20 just the other day. I really like the tone,,, but itDIDNT "for me" play as nicely as my Lee O,s, or nowhere near close to my 1847.
I would love a custom MB , but Im not sure who to buy from ,,, and if they are better than a 1847, sure their 90.00,,, but , it doesnt have problems, still doesnt sound like my VintAGE Old standby , but I guess nothing will
Steve
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Various Musical ramblings
http://www.youtube.com/user/sjeter61?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2010 7:30 AM
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Andy Ley
17 posts
Nov 29, 2010
4:58 AM
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FWIW I swear by Suzukis; Paticularly the Promaster(I prefer it to the Hammond by a whisker). The all-metal construction gives it a lovely solid feel when you hold it. The Bluesmaster is an excellent and responsive harmonica to play considering it's price. I prefer mine to the SP20 it replaced.
I've also dealt with their customer service a couple of times and they've been consistently excellent, even sent me a spare set of screws completely free of charge after I shredded the heads on one set. ~It happened because I couldn't be arsed to find the right size screwdriver - It wasn't even their fault!
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2010 5:00 AM
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jonlaing
140 posts
Dec 01, 2010
7:09 PM
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I also recommend Suzukis. I've had one Manji and two Promasters, and I've just ordered a Hammond. I like the bulk of the Promasters, and their metal combs. Just a little bit of adjustment (a little gapping and embossing) and they are overblow machines (if you're into that).
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