Dig it. If you have to explain it, they wouldn't understand it anyways. ;-) ---------- The more I learn about harmonica, the more I learn how much more there is to learn.
@ Buddha, "All of these guys have it except for Jim Vaughn. Listen to Buddy stomp the rest of them."
@Harpdude, "Buddy does kind of make the others sound bland."
I see 4 guys, of enormous stature, relaxed & having fun...not one of them has anything to prove. They all have their own voice & style. I don't hear anybody "stomping" anyone else.
Personal opinions are all well & good, but not universally valid. The negative ones are probably best reserved for private consumption.
One thing that does strike me though, is that both Jimmy Vaughan and Buddy seem to be being picked up off axis/on spill, for whatever reason the soundman seems to have done a much better job of capturing BB & Eric...not totally surprising, as these 2 have the bigger reps commercially.
Well, Buddha, Jimmie Lee Vaughan may not have "IT" (whatever that is) but the clip shows he has two other qualities that are important: taste and respect.
BB credits Hendrix and Muddy for breaking down the racial bariers that were associated with the blues music in the 60's-his music changed after meeting Jimi-BB's set list and even his sound changed dramaticlly. I've seen clips of Buddy Guy sitting the audience at some of Hendrix's shows-he was in awe of his stage presence and guitar playing. Buddy also incorporated a lot of Hendrix into his shows -he states Jimi as a direct influence.
@tmf714.....I am a huge Hendrix fan brother, but you have your history a little backwards. Jimi was influenced by BB King and Howlin Wolf, and Buddy Guy.
And before he was famous, Cream - AKA Clapton/ Baker/ Bruce were the first ones to invite him to jam at a concert in London.....before anyone ever heard of him.
All great talents in their own right.
@Buddah - great picks - THANKS ! ----------
Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. - Charlie Parker
ZAPPA has a tune called CARLOS SANTANAS SECRET CHORD PROGRESSION. v. amusing title. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
@pharpo-Hendrix was on the chitlin circuit in'63. In '64 he joined The Isley Brothers. In '65 he was touring with Little Richard. Late '65 he was with Curtis Knight and the Squires. Cream was formed in 1966. It's not like he was not known in the USA-he was highly regarded in the Village-he just did not have the right managment-that was where Chas Chandler,Pete Townsend and Eric Clapton enter the picture.
Maybe a question of personal taste - having "IT" or not - but I agree that in the 2d vid Jimmy Vaughn's solo is weaker than the others. I think he makes little mistakes in his playing (maybe because of his guitar belt falling). BB and Clapton play fine solos, great sounding, but Buddy's solo stands out because it sounds more adventurous.
I your perception is just that... your perception, if you have a wider knowledge of the players mentioned, rather than just evaluating them on the clip above, it's more apparent that they're just doing what they do & what people pay to see in their thousands.
Many classic recording feature "mistakes", what was it Chuck Berry said, "if I make a mistake, I repeat it, then everyone thinks I did it on purpose".
They have all earned the right to be on that stage together, they have done it before, they look as if they are enjoying it. Perhaps as a viewer, you might try enjoying it? If not, just don't watch it again & move on.
In all fairness to Jimmie-I noticed he is playing a Strat with a pick-his usual setup is a Tele using fingerpicking.
Last Edited by on Oct 23, 2010 11:40 AM
Sorry Buddha, I apologise profusely for posting on YOUR thread. Forgive me, I thought the forum was a place to publicly disuss threads relating to blues harp & related subjects...fool that I am!
I won't do it again, I won't even read another of your threads, you can live in your own little reality, divorced from the rest of the world...spewing negativity & arrogance, making flippant negative comments about those who have successful careers in performing music, the financial rewards from thousands and thousands of sales & the respect, frienship & admiration of their peers. I'm sure that they'll lose a lot of sleep over it.
There was no "lesson" here. Get that chip off your shoulder.
I was giving a lesson and you've missed the point. Otherwise I don't give a shit what you or anybody does.
Don't want to learn from me then don't.
I don't get what the rest of your rant is about... you're the one talking about being respectful. Be a student or don't but don't disrupt the teaching. If you have questions, ask but don't act like you get it when you don't.
I made badass players. You might want to pay attention sometime.
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
Is this thread about being physically in the groove? That's the one thing that stands out about what Jimmie Vaughan doesn't seem to be doing is physically grooving and allowing the music to come from that groove.
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
@Ryan : Yes, that's what I meant : he sort of missed the groove in his solo, he wasn't into it.
@5F6H yes, that's my perception of it, not a truth engraved in stone, it relates to that particular vid, which is nothing than a short extract of a concert, I'm sure Jimmy played way better the other tunes and is a fabulous player though I never heard of him before - unless he's the brother of Stevie Ray ?
Is it full moon again or what ? already fighting before a discussion has even started...
There wasn't anything wrong with Jimmy Vaughan's playing. All of those guys sounded like themselves. They each have a distinctive sound. I know a lot of guitar players that would love to have any of their sounds. All of those solos were pretty tastefully done.
What must be understood here is that each musician that Chris has posted about has an incredible link to the energy of the universe. They are all channeling.
When someone asks the question "what does it take to have IT" this is the IT that they are talking about. Complete freedom to express themselves.
With that much intention in the band and agreement from the crowd focused into the band the vibe becomes heavenly.You don't often get that trasncendental experience enjoy it when you can.
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Santana has been playing the same licks since the beginning of time, and his albums have sucked since after the seventies. I don't see him in the same league as these guys. Forty years ago he was.
what you and others participating in this thread are not getting is, this is not a thread about how good or bad somebody is... The great players have a connection to the universe. The music they play, is flow through them and is not from them. Jimmy Vaughn was the exception. He was just playing licks and you can hear the difference. That's not a knock on JV its just what was going at during that performance. i don't care enough to look into his other stuff.
There was some powerful energy on those stages.
The point of the thread is this, I often get asked "what does it mean when a person has IT?"
I don't know how to define it other than to show it.
---------- "I am a great believer in understanding, not copying."
Truthfully, I'm not seeing it within Santana, I just don't get it, don't see it. I've never gotten into Jimmie Vaughan, either. Buddy Guy and Clapton do, but Clapton not as often. Just my outlook really.
If you can't describe IT with words and music is subjective, how can you ever hope to have your students be at one with the universe? ---------- The Blues Photo Gallery
I've seen Buddy Guy, Clapton, Jimmy Hendrix and Santana live and they have it. You can't describe it. The music flows through you and you witness it just like everybody else. Even if its a lick you played hundred times if you have it, it gets a vibration attached to it and an energy flow through the channel. Some people seem born with it. Others seem to evolve into it.
---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Butterfield had it at certain points, but it was at the points that no one care about. Bloomfield had them, too. I don't listen to Butterfield much at all, but I'd take Butterfield over Santana definitely.
i think probably Brandon makes the point more clearly, this is what i think Chris means.
Sometimes musicians are able to use the structure of the song as a suggestion, but transcend that and create something new, while staying within the lose bounds of the structure. Chris seems to like what Guy plays because he steps outside of the traditional blues form more than the others. Vaughn did not quite get there because he was surprised to be called, and then his strap fell off this shoulder during the solo, and he was playing with people who probably had been his heroes for a long time... just not his night, but as a pro he did sound good.
Sometimes musicians just fly. Garcia was capable of it often. Weather report had a whole band that could do it at times. Jason Ricci can do it live. It can only really happen when the music has an improvisational component that opens the player up to playing almost without thinking.
There is also a component of being a long time professional performer. In the first clip Santana is leading a whole band.. he is the conductor, but he can let it slide away and play some incredible stuff. He has been at it so long he can relax into the music and keep all the balls in the air at the same time.
In the one with the 4 guitar players, BB King lets Clapton finish his musical thoughts, this is paying close attention to the form and being right on top of things, but not what Chris is referring to. This is the professional part, and listening and keeping the balls in the air. Guy does do some amazing things in that clip, look at BB King laugh near the end of his solo, like wow, that dude can play and just did something new.....
that was a greeat vid on Buddy..'stomp' is a harsh term, indeed. Buddy does, however, appear to have a much more relaxed and expressive take on what to say. Almost like he's saying, ..'here's how it's done, boys', while shakin his head in amusement...ha! or, " I bet you can't do THIS?"...I could be wrong. Nice, thanks for putting it out. So true, the 'it' factor.
BB, Clapton, jimmy Vaughn and Buddy are all great players . i think what hapened to jimmy Vaughn was that in the first lick of his solo he was quoting BBs solo note for note from BBs first recording of rock me . thats where things went wrong beacause when BB played that lick on the record there were different musical things happening around him and he played what he felt at the time , this is the problem with you try to fit a learned solo into something. its like playing a little walter solo note for note into any 12 bars thats around you thats not the way it was created . you have to play to whats around you and improvise. Buddy ,and eric were being themselves and it worked.
Jimmy was always a master of less is more . I heard Jon (blues travler)say on pocket full of soul that he did a show with James Cotton and said when james came out he had it in one note and just blew jons mind . for some the less is more is hard to understand
@alleycatjoe: My brother, a knowledgeable guitarist, saw B.B. King and Jimmie Vaughan do a show together many years ago. On every one of B.B.'s classics, Jimmie slyly started his solo by quoting the solo off the record note for note and then went off on his own tangents. One can infer two things from that: a. great respect for B.B. and b. enough self-confidence to force B.B. to play fresh things. Clearly, Jimmie is up to his old tricks here, and Buddha spotted them as rote licks and can be excused for not getting the joke (memorizing early B.B. King off LPs like my bro did helps).
And just as clearly, as NO ONE has yet remarked on this thread, BUDDY GUY CUTS JIMMIE'S SOLO OFF just as Jimmie really starts to take off on his own thang. YOU CAN'T LINK TO THE ****ING UNIVERSE WHEN BUDDY GUY CUTS OFF YOUR ****ING SOLO!!!
Unless you're linked to the universe as a rhythm player too: watch what Jimmie does at about 3:05.
You can hear Guy step on the opening note of Jimmie's second solo chorus. Count the number of choruses everyone gets to solo in that video: JLV got seriously shortchanged there.
However, Buddy Guy is the hometown hero in this clip, and he's on his game here, and it's a jam, so no wonder Vaughan just graciously rolls with it--which is also a form of being in the moment.
Htown x2 Tricky business, discussing this identity personality IT thing. Some people seem to have IT and some don't. I notice that it's an issue that often emerges in Buddhas posts. Buddha, I expect your dogs have IT.
The IT factor makes excellent Feng Shui that is the only way I can explain it and that is the feeling. It is in the space made by that Feng Shui that harmonized energy flows. That helps to relieve blockages to our Chi flow and brings harmony that feels so good in so many ways. ---------- Emile "Diggs" D'Amico a Legend In His Own Mind How you doin'
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2010 8:54 AM
True story: Once upon a time, quite a few years ago in the early days of MTV when cable television was not a common household commodity, I was over at a friend's house. He did have cable and MTV was on in the background. Some rock band was playing an outdoor concert and I was not really paying attention.
Then, there was a guitar solo. The playing was at such a level of musical and emotional intensity that it grabbed me so hard I immediately went over to look at the television to see who was playing. It was Carlos Santana.
Moral of the story: The truly great ones have "IT" whether you know who they are or not. Btw, I saw Santana in concert a couple of months ago. Terrific performance. It seemed as if playing guitar is as natural for Carlos as breathing or digestion.
John Mayer has been having much more "IT" than anybody lately. He totally owns it against clapton here. To me it sounds like Clapton is tired and resting on his laurels here. Mayer is "channeling". Everybody has their good and bad days.
I saw Buddy Guy,James Cotton,Little Milton,Robert Lockwood Jr,David "Honeyboy" Edwards,Pinetop Perkins,Mojo Buford,Calvin Jones,Wille Smith,Bob Margolin,Henry Gray,Sam Lay,Eddie Shaw,Abu Talib,Jody Williams,Bob Stroger and David D'Or one night at Lincoln Center in NYC. Buddy Guy invited John Mayer out-he played some great blues guitar,but this was the man who got the only standing ovation that night in January 2005.
