I keep seeing people post the advice to newbies that the regular F harp is too shrill and they should opt for a low F instead. I think the poor old, regular F gets a bad press and I don't really use my low F at all.
You should understand a couple of things.
1) I like playing low keys - I have a Seydel Low, Low F which I love playing acoustically and unaccompanied.
2) I'm not a gear obsessive - sometimes I gig amped, sometimes I play through a harp mic into the desk and sometimes I just play through the vocal mic. It all depends on the situation.
So back to the low F... in a band situation it just is too close tonally to the other instruments; it sits too comfortably in the same tonal range as the guitar playing rhythm parts and the left hand of the keys (especially with an organ sound). It's not a matter of volume, it's about pitch and tone. it gets overwhelmed - especially amped where the darker tones are emphasised.
The regular F has it's own tonal space. It cuts through the other instruments beautifully. I love the blow bends.
Totally agree VLU. I love regular F harp. Learnt my first blues song on it which was the Taj Mahal version of "Checking up on my baby" in which he uses a regular F harp.
I find it's a good key for headshakes and funky tunes. Low F is good for chugging etc but I love the F and other high keys of Eb, E, F# and even High G. ---------- Oisin
I can't say it's my favorite, but I do use my F harp on "How Long Blues", which has become part of our set list. Although the our band doesn't do the tune, I also enjoy playing along with "Messin' With the Kid" on the F. I have tried to incorporate my Low F, but I haven't yet figured out just how to do it.
Yep. I don't even carry a low F. I always play electric and with a cupped mic--never "in air." IMHO a low F doesn't have enough "cut" and I don't particularly like playing tenor (low) harps anyway. I have no problem playing my regular F harp and, quite frankly, I don't understand why other players do.
Higher key harps respond well to a sharper breath attack which is fun to use, and, of course, one needs to maintain good resonance to deepen what might otherwise become a shrill tone if you don't. But playing with proper resonance is important anyway, so that's NBD.
One must adjust breath technique and attack depending on the key of the harp being played and higher key harps must be played differently than lower key harps-- but that's part of the fun of being a diatonic harmonica player. I consider my instrument to be my performing set of 12 standard keys and I adjust my technique to play whichever one the music requires in whatever position I need to play it in. For example i use my F quite a bit for playing A natural minor in 5th position as well as for C in 2d position. No complaints about regular F from me.
I have a low F and a standard F and the low F is LOW. The 1,2,3 chord sounds like an Ocean Liner Horn going off, it's really Low but it also sounds kind of cool being a bass guy anyway. I think most of the "bad press" for the standard F is because the reeds are so small they're really hard to do draw bends with. That higher pitch though should really cut thru in a band setting. I figure harps are cheap enough, even for a Pro quality one, no reason not to have both in your arsenal. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F Hohner Hot Metal harps in G,A,C,D,E
I've got a Hering Vintage 1923 in F. Had to do some slight gap adjustment (but that's true with just about any OOTB harp) but I love the JI tuning and how it cuts through. Yup Buz, that cool SBWII sound.
Last Edited by on Sep 23, 2010 4:38 PM
I like it in 3rd as well. Really great practice doing the blues scale on the low end. Helps teach to dial in that 1 1/2 and 1 step bend on the 3 hole draw.
D is as high as i go... ive yet to encounter any tune that warrants the purchase of an F harp. i have an Eb tho. (it was cheap) and dammit son, that's a ear bleeder. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
I like my F harp fine (although I seem to have misplaced it somewhere.) The high harps bug some people's ears. I don't tend to play the top end of it much. My favorite harp is my LLF. If I ever fill out the low keys and the low low keys I might even try some high tuned harps. I keep seeing an ad for a High Eb Marine Band, but that can't be right, can it? I think someone must have seen Low E and then an E that didn't say low and assumed that meant it was high. Seydel offers High A.
I get the impression that some might warn beginners away from a standard F harp because it takes good control to bend those tiny reeds accurately.
That is just a question of knowing what you're meant to be doing and practising it.
I can't think of any reason why no one would want to keep an F in their case; it's not like C is an uncommon key. Also, they're punchy little things. ---------- YouTube SlimHarpMick
I think a lot of times guys like me who come over from guitar and bass just aren't use to the high pitch of the F harp. Once you play enough and get use to the pitch then it's pretty much another harp that you can use, just like C or D or A. Harps are small and relatively inexpensive, no reason not to have one. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F Hohner Hot Metal harps in G,A,C,D,E
I recently got my first F harp after 4 years of playing. I pick it up occasionally but i usually don't like playing above C. I think it is worth having though as you never know when you might need it.
My Cat's really don't like my F harp:o( ----------
http://www.youtube.com/user/fiendant?feature=mhum
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2010 12:03 AM
Hey the regular F is too low for my liking! Check out the high A & Ab!! played by the incomparable Todd Parrott. It'll set the dogs a barkin for miles around. For fun he checks out a double low F for good measure.
This a great example of what can be done on the high keys, this one played on an E, not shrill at all. Incredibly smooth and easy to listen to. Just love Todd's style!!
@Ant138, my cats don't like it when I play harp, let along F harp. LOL. Even with I'll play a YouTube vid of someone playing my big, male cat, Bunny, will start to meow and carry on. I think it's because harp is in Their vocal range and they probably hear it as another cat trying to say something to em'. Just a theory, no hard evidence. They do seem to have more tolerance for the low F though. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F Hohner Hot Metal harps in G,A,C,D,E
I like my regular F. Like Hvyj says, it cuts thru the mix where, at least on a hard-driven song, the low won't. In general when I play in a band setting I prefer harps above A. I personally am more 'expressive' on keys C-up. High G is somewhat shrill, but it sees use too. We are now playing a transposed version of a James Hunter song that has some distinct sax parts, which I play on harp, and the low F works here, as it is a very mellow song. In general, I'll grab the normal F over a low for 2nd or 3rd position. I just don't see the point in playing if I can't be heard! ----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2010 5:04 AM
My low F is very seldom used, yeah the chuggin is good but it just dosn't cut thru the mix. I use a standard F on a regular basis, I keep 2 in my gig case just in case I loose a reed during a song. I have had a very good life span out of these harps also. I go thru way more A and D harps than F's even though they see nearly as much service. The slow blow bends really show your stuff when you pull them off. When we do "Every Rose has it's Thorn" the standard F is really sweet on the lead solo. You just got to learn how to control the volume of this harp to avoid the ear bleeds. I couldn't live with out the standard F harp in my line up. Mike
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2010 8:07 AM
I have cats also-an incrediably beautiful calico cat who gets right in my face when I play the higher notes on E or F harps-I quit then because she has me under her cute little paw
I wonder if the pitch from an F harp is some kind of mating call for cats?? ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F Hohner Hot Metal harps in G,A,C,D,E
I've got both and both require different approaches to make the best use out of them. Sometimes the standard F in certain situations can sound a bit too screechy and sometimes a Low F can be a tad too mellow for some situations. The standard F, my approach is more of an agressive, guitar like attack, and a Low F, I'm using a more sax like attack. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
I'm probably going to emply my normal and low F harps in a song I'm playing tonight, As The Years Go Passing By, a sweet and slow blues with plenty of space to start out slow and mellow on the Low F, then ramp things up and play some fierce guitaresque licks on the normal f-that's where these higher pitched harps really shine. ----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Barbeque Bob's guitar/sax analogy kind of nails the tone of the two. I try to hang on the lower notes with a regular F and uses lots of octaves to fatten things a bit. I think the low F cuts well when used in third position--working out on the 4-6 holes and the upper register.
the bottom line on this is to play in the key of c we all know that there may be times when you want to play low F but you are certainly compromising volume you grab whatever key your fellow jammers are using dont know if harp players usually dictate the key
Used the low and high F's last night with a not easily categorizable local band which some might call some old guys playing high energy punk rock with some blues/latin tinge thing goin on. Use the High F mostly to cut through the haze of bass and drums and rhythm guitar and loud vocals.
@Kyzer Sosa: "D is as high as i go..." Just out of curiosity, what harps do you use if the band calls Bb major, F dorian minor, G natural minor, C major, C natural minor, G dorian minor or A natural minor?
I use my Eb and F harps in various positions pretty regularly to play in these keys all of which are commonly called. If you don't play harps above D, how do handle material in these keys? I mean, you can use Ab as an alternative for C natural minor, Bb for G natural minor, and you can use C to get A natural minor. But how do you get these other keys if you don't play any harps above D? I'm just curious. Enlighten me.
Last Edited by on Sep 25, 2010 10:28 AM
This is just an opinion I have, but I think you need to woodshed a bit if you think an F harp is too shrill--it's the best work-out you can get to clean up your tone and work on microtonal nuances. You mess up a little on tone on a low F and nobody, including the player, knows the difference--do it on a regular F and your wife and the cats are suing for divorce.
It cuts through when nothing else will--it's just a great harp in the right situation. I like to re-adjust my mix a little when I pick one up, if there's time--which is the only down side I see with it.
I don't have a high G--but I want one. . . ----------
Silly question. If something is in the key of C why couldn't you just play straight harp on a C harp instead of playing cross harp on an F harp? That would bring the pitch down some without it being the "River Boat Whistle" of a Low F harp. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Hohner Golden Melody in C Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F
When I play with people, they tend not to get as specific as what mode the song is in, only the key... so Cmaj, Amin... etc. (It's sad but if you said Mixolydian to most of them, they'd think you were talking about a cable network for kids) So, that affords me the ability, especially with the right blues, to substitute my F with a Bb in 3rd. This is the kind of approach I take to avoid playing with high harps.
I will say, however, that my aversion to high harps (above D) is definitely from a lack of practice with them. So I will agree with oldwailer on that regard. Maybe I'll go give em a little practice now.
Ahh, ok. Knew there had to be a reason. Also, you'd be missing those cool draw bends that I love to hear and play. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Hohner Golden Melody in C Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F
I'm a little confused here, I guess. I think the reg. F has stunning tone. It takes some control but not much more than lower harps. The top half can bite but it's ok for octaves, carefully.
I have both low and reg F harps. They both have their uses but the reg wins out simply because of my hearing loss! ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
I think one thing that I've been doing is living in the 4 thru 6 hole on my harps. If I move down to the 2 hole(where I really should be to play 2nd Position) the the standard F isn't too bad at all, especially once you get use to the higher pitch of a harmonica vs a guitar or bass' lower pitch. ---------- Harmonicas: Hohner Big River in Low F,G,A,Bb Hohner Special 20 in Bb Hohner Golden Melody in C Suzuki HarpMaster in C Suzuki FolkMaster in D,E,F
These are oversimplifications / generalizations, really, but my $.02:
Regular F -- Pluses: - good for fast runs and chugging - bright, cuts through well - best on 2nd position, sometimes on 5th position (because of the emphasis on the low end)
Regular F -- Minuses: - can be shrill on the high end without good control
Low F -- Pluses: - Great for straight harp blow bends, and for octaves (especially in 3rd and 4th position) - Great on 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 12th positions, as well as 2nd and 5th on softer tunes
Low F -- Minuses: - a little more challenging to cut through volume-wise on cross harp
I have and use both--got a low F (Lee Oskar) when I decided my regular F sounded too shrill, used it quite a bit initially, but I've gone back to the reg F for most situations now. The low F just lacks cut and definition, and I find that the regular F doesn't sound as shrill to me as it used to when I play it--maybe my technique is improving, or taste. BTW, when I do use the low F I like running the signal through my LW Harp Octave (1 octave up) with quite a bit of effect dialed in, it really helps it cut through the mix. Paradoxically, running the regular F through the Harp Octave with just a bit of effect seems to fatten the tone, not make it even more shrill as you might expect, and I usually use it this way.
