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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
How many times have you given up harp?
How many times have you given up harp?
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HarmonicaMick
129 posts
Sep 14, 2010
2:18 PM
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After our last Harpfriends Playalong Content, I was utterly sickened by MichaelAndrewLo and Superchucker's entries. I mean, how can people play that well when they've only been playing for about one and four years respectively?
That HPC served to give me a good firm kick right up the arse. I went right back to basics, right back to the beginning.
I re-learnt how to hold the harp so that I could cover 5 holes and tongue block 3, should the need arise, e.g. octaves on alternate holes on the upper register.
I listended to Big Walter Horton and realised that my wah-wahs were just OK, passable, but nothing more than that. So I learnt to relax my grip until I could get them to sound decent on the lower harps, which are much less forgiving with that particular technique, at least in my experience.
And on and on...
The whole exercise nearly crippled my playing. Many times I simply felt like sterilising all my harps and taking them down to a local charity shop.
But you can't do that, not if you've given up before and regretted it.
I coming out the other side now, having taken what I can from Doc Gussow, Gindick, Winslow Yerxa, Dave Barrett, and others. Without wishing to sound disrespectful to any of them, and after countless hours of analysing and practising using some of their descriptions of this or that technique, I've dismissed some of what they have to say and adopted the Royal Society's motto (UK science institution dating back to Newton's time):
"Nullius in Verba, or "Take no one's word for it."
And some of the fun is coming back. I still get days when I'm completely crap, but I don't care any more. On those days, I just doodle, holding the harp in one hand while browsing the net with the other.
I suppose that getting good involves a balance between thinking about what you're doing and simply not thinking about what you're doing. Unless you're a complete natural, which I'm not.
Anyway, the obsessives amongst you will probably know what I'm banging on about, while the rest of you will think, 'What is he banging on about."
Your thoughts, harp peeps.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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LeeEdwards
93 posts
Sep 14, 2010
2:43 PM
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"I suppose that getting good involves a balance between thinking about what you're doing and simply not thinking about what you're doing"
This I agree with. I have very often found that after working on a technique or concept with my students long enough for the knowledge to become ingrained in their minds and muscle memory to take hold there comes a point where I can see that the only thing preventing that particular technique or concept from really blooming is the student's thought process. I then move onto something different, but still related. Bang. As soon as their focus is on something else the previous skill starts to shine through because it is being accomplished unconsciously.
Here's an example. I was recently working with a student on intonating the blues scale. Sat at the piano plinking the target keys the student's intonation wasn't consistent. Once I'd coached her for a while on intonation I knew it was time to move on. I asked her to start running up and down the scale by accenting certain beats and off-beats of the bar. As soon as her focus was completely shifted to getting the rhythms correct her intonation magically fell into place.
The unconscious mind is a wonderful thing.
"I still get days when I'm completely crap, but I don't care any more. On those days, I just doodle, holding the harp in one hand while browsing the net with the other."
A very valuable lesson to all there Mick. I'll guarantee that even world class musicians have days where it doesn't quite come together. They've just learned to say "what the hell" and accept it. I think most beginners give up because they get frustrated by the days that it doesn't come together. The lesson is this: stop looking for instant gratification, because it only leads to disappointment. Take every day as it comes and just enjoy the journey.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
Last Edited by on Sep 14, 2010 2:46 PM
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MrVerylongusername
1228 posts
Sep 14, 2010
2:45 PM
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Never given up completely, but I have had phases of not really giving it much attention and concentrating on other stuff. The kind of stuff that in the grand scheme of things is far more important.
Anyway, good to see you posting again.
People would do well to remember that art is not science. Science is objective, there is one answer and the journey is about finding it. Art is about exploration. There are no rights or wrongs, just different ways of expressing yourself. Take the bits that make sense to you and distrust anyone who says that their way is the only way.
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LeeEdwards
94 posts
Sep 14, 2010
2:52 PM
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Oh yeah, I forget to address the main point of the topic.
I have never given up. However, before I started teaching there were occasional times where I wouldn't feel like picking the harp up for a few months due to burnout. I'd take the opportunity to throw myself into piano or sax or another area of music. Active rest I call it. Sometimes a break can do you good.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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harmonicanick
883 posts
Sep 14, 2010
2:58 PM
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HarmonicaMick,
Hey namesake, most of us 'oldies' had no resource called the internet, and more specifically the cyber world of Gussow et all, when we were getting 'into' the harmonica.
Countless hours of analysing and practicing as you say, never came into it because there was not the experts available to benchmark your own playing.
The only workshop I attended since starting playing in 1965 was with Brendan Power in Bristol uk I think in the '80's.
Other than that there has been no help along the line s of what is available now at the click.
So dont worry Mick enjoy yourself, this is the time of the harmonica renaissance.
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TNFrank
51 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:16 PM
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I never took it up long enough in the past to "give" it up.LOL.
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Harps:
Suzuki HarpMaster in C (on order)
Hohner Big River in A
Hohner Hot Metal harps in G, A, C, D,and E
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AV8R
62 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:24 PM
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I tried and gave it up twice before-once in college (1972) and again about 15 years later. Both times I gave up after about 3 weeks and went back to playing guitar. I think if I would have had the tremendous resources we have today i would have stuck with it, but back then we just had some pretty lame instructional books, and I knew of no harp teachers.
Of course, all the great harp players of today that are around my age had the same disadvantages to learning the harmonica that I had, but it didn't hold them back. So no excuses.
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tookatooka
1703 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:36 PM
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HarmonicaMick. Is that HarmonicaMick who used to be Mickil? If so, boy am I pleased to hear from you again. Been a long time. I'm still plodding along too. Made some progress I suppose but still consider myself a baby player. Haven't got much time right now but look forward to discussing harp with you more. Still some of the old faces about. German Harpist, Isaacullah etc but we all tailed off a little lately. Anyway Mick, hoping all is well with you Sir.
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Buzadero
538 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:36 PM
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I give it up all the time. Until I pick it up again.
I've never intentionally stopped due to some internal struggle. But, I can certainly understand a "rut".
When I was a teenager, listening to endless hours of vinyl records to try to figure things out -- you talk about "positions", I can't tell you how many hours I must have spent trying to duplicate a particular classic from one of The Greats, invariably on one key of harp when years later I figured out it was originally played on a completely different key of harp -- I would get frustrated just about every time I went and saw a live harp performance. Especially, if the person that was wailing was close to my age. Last year, I had to sit in OldWhalers motel room and witness an entire herd of youngsters play at a proficiency level that at that age I would have literally killed to attain.
I finally came to terms with my own harp playing. It was probably sometime in the late 80's. I love the harmonica and all things harmonica related. So, I always have the little bastards with me. Flying off to jobs around the world, camping, etc. I also spend a great deal of time alone. So, the harp is a very tidy and easy to haul around companion. It fell into place for me to get my head around when I realized that I was getting frustrated in self-comparisons or when what I wanted to have come out just didn't click.
Nowadays, when I reach for a harp I simply allow my mood at the moment to flow. Don't try to double-down a boogie when you're tired and/or feeling less than optimal. Just sit and meditate through the holes and over the reeds, let the tired come out. Don't fight it.
Let it come to you. Don't force it. Just keep it around. It will work itself out.
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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groyster1
468 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:53 PM
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in the trailer for pocket full of soul james cotton said you have got to go get it it wont come get you-right just grab it and blow
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RyanMortos
782 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:56 PM
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Mick, glad to hear from you! I think your discoveries match some of my own. I think someone else commented a while back about going back & working on the basics from time to time. I actually had a wake up call recently that made me realize that there's some things I neglected or didnt practice enough that I need to go back to.
Speaking of harmonica contest we havent had one in some time. I didnt take part in the past for various reasons but I still got a lot out of watching!
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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MP
830 posts
Sep 14, 2010
3:57 PM
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i gave it up after one year of trying to learn ('71-'72) from '72-'73 my two harps sat in a drawer. i was never going to be butterfield or LW. (still not).
one day i just pulled 'em out and haven't stopped yet. except to eat and stuff. i'm really annoying to people and animals. birds fly from trees etc..
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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HarmonicaMick
130 posts
Sep 14, 2010
4:38 PM
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MrV, tooka and Ryan, thanks for the welcome back. I stayed away 'cos of all the negativity going around at that time, but that was as much my responsibility as any other poster: takes two to tango and all that.
Anyway, some insightful responses here. LeeEdwards, I get the impression that either you had a good teacher or you've learnt how to teach very well yourself.
That stuff about shifting focus from one technique to another and letting the former fall into place is something that never really occurred to me, and that's after having 5 or 6 piano teachers - one of them absolutely top drawer - and even teaching myself.
A theme that seems to run through some of the above posts is the sheer quantity of stuff we have these days, and that is true. Even with that being the case, I still found myself not being able to see certain things that were holding me back.
Perhaps it is the case that some kind of introspection is necessary in order to go beyond a certain level. That is, unless you're one of those rare people who just seem to get it right from the get go.
I've met three of these people - piano players, not harpists - and they could play almost anything within a few years. Dwelling on their abilities can hold you back. I'm sure one of you fellas said something like that in the above.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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LeeEdwards
95 posts
Sep 14, 2010
5:12 PM
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@HarmonicaMick - My greatest teachers have been my students.
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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jbone
397 posts
Sep 14, 2010
5:23 PM
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it's great to read such positive counsel on several fronts.
there were times early on where i'd just put them away, esp in the early 80's when i had moved to a new city and had no stereo to play along with. a saving grace was, back then "Chuck E's In Love" was a big hit on pop radio.
i think i wore out a harp om that one. during that time i was not aware that i was close to some true greatness in the harp world. Dallas was home to Sam Myers and some other guys i would have benefited from seeking out. i was just too hard-headed- and proud even in my ignorance- to seek anyone out and ask for help of any kind.
stubbornness has been a real blessing for me. sure there have been times when i just wasn't making any progress and i put the dam things away for a time, but eventually that soft voice would call me back to them.
perhaps i was a case of real arrested development. i had never really tried to be a student of the instrument. some major things changed in my life through the 90's and i began to really commit myself to learning to be the best i could on harp. and even as limited as i was then, i began to get actual paying gigs and work with bands. there were definitely times i'd get sick of my own self regarding what i didn't know re harp, and i took a lot of short breaks and just tried to move through life with my bear trap mind open. i also sort of resigned myself to probably blowing out a lot of reeds, which i did with regularity for a time. partly bad technique, partly the volume disease we hear at shows and jams the world over, but mostly from trying to force a harp to do things it couldn't do.
with the blossoming of the internet in the recent decade, and also with some very gracious help from a couple of local harp friends, i began to REALLY open my eyes to being a student. i have much yet to develop. i hear guys at 4 years do things i wonder if i'll accomplish at 40 years, a date approaching not so long from now. the basics are anything but basic as one digs ever deeper into what a harp can do. still, as the past several years have unfolded, i have made some great personal discoveries and developed some amazing- to me- techniques.
i've always been a seat-of-the-pants guy. don't ask me to play juke or any of the standard harp anthems. chances are i can't, at least the way the greats did them. but i have made some breakthroughs into the same arena of playing. i was asked not long ago if i hung out with James Cotton, to which i could only reply, "i wish!" but i took that as a compliment.
i concentrated on both learning manners and also on being assertive when my instincts told me it was time to step up a mark or two.
i am not even yet a technical player. i do some things with a harp that others do and have done, but i stumbled my way there. i seek to find something off the wall that fits in a given spot. sometimes frustrated but sometimes i hit on a winner!
at this stage of the game i can't conceive of quitting harp or music. it's such a huge part of who i am. occasionally i have had short breaks but i don't feel right within myself if i'm not on a stage or at least jamming with my wife in the living room on a frequent basis.
even hearing people who are far ahead of me on the continuum is no kind of deterrent these days. i'm satisfied with the quality of my efforts and the results. i get good feedback from audiences and band mates most of the time.
my counsel is, if you're tired of harp, take a break, do other things totally unrelated. ride, swim, fish, knit, whatever. take a trip with no harps in your bag. but come back to them when they call out to you.
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Kyzer Sosa
780 posts
Sep 14, 2010
5:55 PM
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once
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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boris_plotnikov
243 posts
Sep 14, 2010
9:08 PM
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Never! I was frustrated, thinking of preffering chromatic, changing note layout, but I never wanted to give up harmonica playing. First years I just like it and I wasn't familiar with the most modern players, next years I feel I have to keep plaig and practicing as playing harmonica is the best skill I have, and the most pleasant time spending.
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Excuse my bad English. Click on my photo or my username for my music.
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isaacullah
1164 posts
Sep 14, 2010
9:40 PM
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Mick! I am VERY glad to see you back here. You were a pillar around here, and I hope to see you back more frequently.
To your post: I've never completely quit, but I have put the harp down for a couple of weeks. Actually, I have found that those "rest" periods do more for me when I'm rutted or when I'm frustrated than if I had spent that time practicing 8 hours a day (not that I've ever had enough free time to do that on a regular basis!).
One thing I HAVE learned is to not judge myself by other folks progess. I used to do that A LOT, and it only served to get me down. I still find it hard to do sometimes (have you HEARD the new guy calling himself Heart2Harp? He's AMAZING after such little time on harp), but I find that I just gotta focus on myself. I'm at place where I finally have a few things that I'm actually happy with when I play. I know what many of my weaknesses are, and I know what I've got basically covered. These days, I don't have near as much time to work on harp playing, so I just play as I can, when I can. And actually, I'm beginning to notice that just by playing SOMETHING frequently, it's had an additive effect, and I'm still improving...
So basically, I'm saying that I fully understand what you are banging on about.... I wonder if it's a stage that more folks have come to?
Anyway, it's really good to have you back here. It's my hope that us "old guard" can help keep this place alive and civil and on topic. The more of us around here actively contributing, the better chance we've got to realize that goal! Cheers mate!
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View my videos on YouTube!"
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RyanMortos
784 posts
Sep 14, 2010
9:54 PM
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Ive not quit but I havent been exposed to the idea of playing as long as many of the guys here have. Ive been playing harmonica about 2 years and havent put it down for a week at any one point in time. Thats not to say I dont have days where Im frustrated & doubtful of 'getting it'. Though 'getting it' means a lot to me right now, I dunno what would happen if I gave up hope.
Though, at the moment I have the flu & Im on 3 days of not playing :( . But I still think about music :) . And Im still playing piano which may infer something to harmonica lol. At least with piano its easy to wash my hands and wipe down the keys, lol.
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~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Contact:
My youtube account
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Ant138
573 posts
Sep 15, 2010
3:15 AM
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@ HarmonicaMick, great to hear from you again. (you done that key to the highway video yet? lol,only joking) but it is good to hear from you.
the only time i quit was when i was learning to bend notes. After i learnt to do that i was hooked.
I got really down about tongue blocking a while ago,it felt like i was going back to square 1 again. hopefully im getting the hang of it now.(check out my testing my new astatic 200 thread).
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Littoral
81 posts
Sep 15, 2010
6:14 AM
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Never, except almost, in 1989 when I saw Levy play Round Midnight. That hurt.
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HarmonicaMick
131 posts
Sep 15, 2010
6:47 AM
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@ tooka, Isaac and Ant,
Thanks for your warm welcome back. It made me feel all warm and squidgy.
@ Isaac: I think you're right about it being a 'stage', be it a particularly unpleasant one. I suppose the Doc warned us about this when he said in one of his videos something like, 'There will be elation and heartbreak.' It's the latter of the two that tests your commitment to the instrument.
@ Ant: it was the whole tongue blocking thing that started to get my knickers in a twist. I bought Madcat Ruth's beginners' DVD, and some of the stuff on it went beyond my abilities. Well, just the TB stuff, namely: playing 4 holes while blocking 3 on the left.
I'm not one of those in the TB-only camp, but it is a required technique for some types of passages, you know, melody with rhythmic accompaniment.
Nothing I have read or heard tells you that it will be a trillion times easier if both your jaw and the hand that is holding the harp are fairly relaxed; not too loose, but not too tight. At least, that's what I've found. A too firm a grip seems to make the thumb more rigid and less able to accommodate your embouchure.
Now I come to think of it, I seem to remember BBQBob mentioning the thing about having a relaxed jaw when TBing.
Oh yeah, Key to the Highway. Sorry about that. I spent so long on it that eventually I got utterly sick of my version of it.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 6:59 AM
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mr_so&so
356 posts
Sep 15, 2010
2:03 PM
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Let me just add my welcome back, Mick. I've never quit, but I have done the tongue-blocking restart, and I'm glad I did.
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hvyj
601 posts
Sep 15, 2010
2:52 PM
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I stopped playing out regularly for about an 8 year period. Before that, I was playing ok, and I had plenty of opportunities to play, but I had gotten to the point where felt like I was playing the SOS all the time and didn't feel like I had anything to say anymore. I mean i was just regurgitating blues scale licks and runs--competently enough, but it was getting old. I didn't feel like I was making any sort of artistic statement or emotional expression that was meaningful.
During this hiatus I kept playing at home and teaching myself additional positions and scales. I'd make an occasional foray to play out a few times a year (I had been playing out a few times each week) to try out new stuff I was learning (this was in the pre-internet days before we had the cornucopia of resources that are available now). During this time, every now and then I would sit in regularly with a band for a few gigs if I felt particularly inspired.
Then due a a peculiar combination of circumstances I wound up sitting in with a band that played some jazz tunes and very cool jazz arrangements of R&B and blues tunes and I realized that all the stuff I taught myself while wood shedding enabled me to play all sorts of material i could have never handled on diatonic harp before. Now, i felt i had something to say again--there's that emotional edge of uncertainty that develops when you're trying out new and different stuff which really gets the creative juices flowing.
So, i started playing out 2-3 nights most weeks again and got back into it to the point where I'm gigging regularly semi-professionally. And for some reason I've never fully understood, I've always had the good fortune to play with really good musicians and from them I've learned (and continue to learn) a lot. I've been really enjoying playing these days. Count my blessings.
Last Edited by on Sep 15, 2010 3:10 PM
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HarmonicaMick
132 posts
Sep 15, 2010
3:36 PM
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@ mr_so&so: thanks for the welcome. It's felt really good to get that from the posters who remember me.
@ hvyj: yeah, that SOS thing must be very common, especially on such a small instrument. I nearly said 'limited instrument' but you know what I mean.
Learning new stuff definitely seems to be the way to break out of that one.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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