I was hoping to get some feedback and advice on how to improve my blues harp tone. I mostly play Lee Oskars with some Hohner Special 20s through a stock Shure Green Bullet microphone. The Green Bullet is hooked up to a ART TUBE MP (tube pre-amp) and a Boss DD-3 Digital Delay. My amplifier is a Fender Blues Jr. NOS (15W 12" Jenson) with a tube upgrade (ECC81, one ECC832 and one ECC83S). I also mike the amp through my PA with a Shure 545SD.
I would like to be able to get more volume without the feedback so I can get a dirtier sound. I've heard about The Kinder Anti-Feedback+ and Lone Wolf Harp Attack. I know I can also improve my sound by doing mods to my amp, getting a new harp microphone or getting the Green Bullet modified. Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated. Here is video me and my band playing "Off The Wall" a tribute to the great Little Walter.
The only piece of your equipment that I can relate to is the Shure Green Bullet. It was my first harp mic, and I still have it, but never use it. I always had issues feeding back when I used to use it. Maybe try using a low impedence mic instead.
In terms of being able to turn up louder, which seems to be your end goal, it's not going to change your tone, you're just going to be louder, presumably.
I remember going through a period of growth on the harp similar to what you are going through and being obsessed about my tone and also big time obsessed about what role the gear I didn't have might play in improving my tone.
I listened to your sound here and I think your present gear is fine. The darker dirtier tone you seek comes from how tight you cup and seal your harp to mic and also how you breath from your diaphragm.Keep after it and it will come. Its the hours...its the hours.
ridge...thanks for your response. I think my tone sounds fine, but I have also heard tones that I like better than mine. It would also be cool to be able to change tones for some songs. The feedback prevents me from overdriving the amp, which will give me more distortion, make me louder and change my tone. I'm loud enough when we rehearse in my living room, but sometimes have some feedback issues. I would like to have more volume if necessary for larger venues. I also have feedback issues when I try to keep the amp down low and turn up the PA.
I have used my low impedence mic when the Green Bullet was being repaired. I will have to experiment more with that.
I used to have a BJ re-tubed just like yours. The BJ is a high gain amp and your green bullet is a high output mic, which is a combination that is a prescription for feedback.
My suggestion: put an MXR 10 band EQ pedal between the ART and the delay. Pump 250 on the EQ to thicken and fatten tone, and roll off the high end freqs. Also play with the relative positions of the volume and gain sliders on the EQ pedal. How you adjust the relative positions of the gain and volume sliders can have a significant effect on tone as well as ability to control feedback. In effect, you will be using the MXR as a second preamp as well as an EQ.
Also, make sure the FAT switch on the amp is OFF. It sounds good, but under performance conditions, leaving the FAT switch on generates feedback. Personally, I would use a low impedance mic thru an IMT (like a 545 Ultimate) with this set up. A volume control on the mic will allow you to attenuate the input signal somewhat. Using a VC this way as sort of a "gain pad" on the mic does help control feedback.
A Kinder AFB+ would definitely help control feedback. I am not a fan of the Kinder because in addition to controlling feedback it dirties up tone, which is not to my taste. But it may be exactly what you are after. Your ART is nice piece of gear. It works better with some amps than others, though.
Btw, I sold my BJ to get a Princeton Reverb Reissue when those came out. No regrets. Contrary to popular belief, I happen to think a 12" speaker can sound more shrill for harp than a 10" speaker which I think is "tighter" and has more "punch." But YMMV.
Last Edited by on Sep 07, 2010 1:09 PM
I too have a BJ re-tubed and a Green B and they are good when I play with a little 3 piece, that's 2 guitars and me.
However with a band, such as yours, mate you need a bigger amp otherwise you will be frustrated because you cant get the volume/tone without turning up too loud and getting feedback.
Also, as Barbeque Bob, of this forum, has repeatedly said you should NOT,NOT,NOT, blow or draw hard!! You need to be relaxed and play softly and you should be able to hear yourself like in a 'womb' It will cost you money going on like that because as the rest of the guys turn up you will blow harder and the next thing is busted reeds. Bands play loud and thats good, so what you have to do is borrow or buy a Fender Bassman re-issue '59 or some amp like that..my mate has a bassman and its fantastico!!!!The sound of that will go through listners like a knife and all your problems will be over. Or, get the band to play soft..ha ha
I agree with Harmonica Nick and would also add this:
I went through a frustrating period where I was using an amplifier that had a master volume and gain controls .
What I learned is that although some amps with master volume and gain controls can be used to dial in a nice harp sound...they will let you down as soon as you have to match the volume of drums and guitar and you will have a feedback nightmare.
Miking these amps through the PA can add to the feedback trouble.
After all my struggles I can advise getting an amp with a single volume controll as the superior tool for a harp player. A Fender Bassman Re-issue for instance is an excellent amp for the four piece(drums,guitar,bass and harp). These types of amps (no master volume) are plenty loud with no feedback. For a three piece act in a small club I use an old Fender Tremolux amp with a single 12" speaker. Again...this amp has only a single volume control.
Helix, You are right but I havent shelled out the dineros yet for a bigger amp, I am hiding behind a friends rig. Here in the UK, it will cost me £800 for that sort of rig even if I buy off someone friendly (Kingley:-))
Also, you have to live on the level, with no outside stairs which I have, they are quite heavy mothers and I struggle to lift 'em as I live on a hill.
you shouldn't get feed back problems with proper PA main and monitor speaker placement.
from the vid i imagine the 545 is in front of a PA main speaker. guaranteed feedback right there. if you are useing monitors and the harp is going through them then more feedback. savy? nice work Sam. ---------- MP hibachi cook for the yakuza doctor of semiotics superhero emeritus
@Helix: I agree. In my experience an amp w/ a single VC is more harp friendly in live performance situations than an amp with a master volume. That's one of the reasons I sold my BJ.
Also, as a practical matter, neither the BJ or my Princeton Reverb Re-issue are powerful enough for live gigs.
You seem to be seeking technical answers for your question, but may I suggest, for your tone and variation, you try working on your vibrato? There are some long notes at the beginning of the number where vibrato would be appropriate. Vibrato would also encourage you to insert the longer, toneful notes instead of doing it all with head-shakes.
I hesitate giving this advice, because I am not happy with my playing yet. I just know that my tone improved markedly since I started working on vibrato, not just because it sounds cool, but it forced me to do at least some of the things necessary for good tone - breathing from the diaphragm, relaxing my larynx, etc. You might find it works for you as well.
I would say the best way to improve your tone is to stop playing. Ok just kidding. I notice you have some nice equipment. The harp case and stand must have cost a few bucks. Not to mention a full set of harps, mic and an amp. My question is have you ever put out some bucks out for harmonica lessons? The best way I would say to improve is take lessons. It's not like it was in 1967. Now you can find lots of instruction. Please support the teachers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----------
I was hoping to get some feedback and advice on how to improve my blues harp tone?
Throw away the microphone the amp what ever fancy wizz bangery ya useing:)
It's been said a thousand times if ya got bad acoustic tone you have bad Amped tone no gear is going to help you no fancy feedback thingys:(
Self taught Hay Bro your a Lip Purser I would have to bang on about that one i can hear it, i can see it in your mouth shape when playing, your mouth cheeks are very draw in giveing the Old Fish Lips effect:(
you are Playing from the mouth not your diaphrame it looks as if you are sucking a milk shake through a straw:( your mouth cavity is sucked in and restricting you from produceing deep tone:(
no matter what method of Playing TB or LP you won't get good tone Playing From the Mouth, you must draw your Breath from way down low:)
Try this quick trick 1st relize where the breath is comeing from, Blow in and out a few times from the mouth like blowing up a Baloon:)
see the breath is coming from the mouth no good:(
now open your mouth wide open, breath in and out a few times like gasping for air:(
see the air is not comeing from the mouth it's comeing from your Lungs and diaphrame:)
this is what we want a wide open mouth chamber going way back with a full open throat draw that breath from way down Low Bro:)
Put that Harp in Ya mouth draw that breath from way down south:)
Imagine somebody who buys the best pots and pans, has a great kitchen made but doesn't know how to cook and wants everybody else to teach him. ----------
@Diggsblues --- That`s dead on perfect analogy. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Sep 10, 2010 7:40 AM
Bro's an apprentice buys all the Finest tools of the trade befor he can use them,and then seeks answers from questions asked of others they can be his foe or can be his Brothers:) ---------- What do you wish to Be?
Sam I also played Lee Oskars for 8 years. In 96' I switched to special 20's and in one year my playing, style, attack and overall approch changed for the better! Try the SP 20's, and Budda is right your holding the mic like your playing acoustic. What I mean is if I was tring to sound thin I would hold it more like that. No! now that I think about it I open my pinky and ring finger away from the mic to get less full sound. Try putting the mic and harp in your hands like your holding water in your hands to drink. In doing this hold the mic as far away from your face as you can while holding the harp between your thumbs and just below your fore finger. I hope that makes sense.
An Apprenctice serves an Apprenticeship for a Master artist until he reaches Journeyman status. He works for the knowledge he gains from the Master. Not everyone gets accepted as an Apprentice.
I was gonna name my first CD Apprentice To Perfection LOL ----------
Diggsblues...you are not a "Master" and not a comedian, IMO. BTW, I'm doin' just fine.
N.O.D. I came here asking for advice, because I know there are people on here who have more knowledge than I have. I didn't post the video expecting to blow everyone away with my harp skills. I know this is a tough crowd. I'm not looking for any foes. Did I say or do something to make you belive I wanted to be a foe?
Anyway, thanks to all for the constructive comments and the negative ones too!
Sam...forget all the rest and just focus on the constructive comments.
I don't think you are acting like a cook with all the toys but no recipes....I don't think you did anything but ask for opinions and tips for improvement. I don't think asking for advice on an internet forum means you are trying to "skate by and avoid paying a teacher".
If you ever do want a lesson give me a holler. For now...I like what the guy said about holding your hands tightly together like you were going to fill them with water to drink. When cupping a mic...a tiny little crack will change the sound.
P.S. Yes, tight cupping will reduce feedback but there is still a threshold for volume.
Sam, I'm just an old nobody, myself, but thanks to Captain Bliss (occasional poster here) I sat in on a seminar on posture from a great singing coach. On the premise that the principles of improving your singing poster are the same as improving your harmonica posture, I'm trying to improve my posture, and my breathing, as a result of what he told us.
While I'm of the same opinion as others here, that your tone sounds just dandy, this is the long way 'round of saying that I see you doing many of the same things that I do, namely bending your head down, hunching your shoulders a great deal. Mr Singing Coach had me straighten my back, relax my shoulders, and keep my eyes looking straight ahead but just a bit down.
My tone still sucks, but it sucks less and generally playing requires much less exertion now than when I wasn't conscious of my posture.
My playing stands on its own. There are others that may disagree about the elevator music. There are players of high stature that give me plenty of props.
I think you're doing fine. Guys who play as well as you do rarely post videos here asking for constructive critique.
If you came to me, played this Little Walter stuff just the way you've played it here, and said "What should I work on?," the first thing I'd tell you is, "You're already playing at a high level, so you should take some real satisfaction in having gotten there."
Here, in any case, are three things I hear:
1) I really like the blue third at :13; it shows that you've got strength and control. But at a few other places (:14 and :21, to cite two early examples), you don't quite make that bend work. You make the common error of hitting the note at roughly a full step bend and allowing it to flop upward to the major third. The critique I'm giving you is akin to the critique a pitching coach would make to a AAA ballplayer....you've got pretty good pitches, but there's a small mechanical flaw that it would benefit you to work on.
2) On some of the transitions, you don't get any swing or "kick" going. There's some inner rhythmic life that you COULD be injecting into your playing, beyond what's already there, that you don't quite inject. I'd probably have you experment with playing some very simple riffs, tongue blocked, but having you apply different sorts of rhythmic accents to them.
3) Your amp is making you work a little harder than you should ideally need to. If you had a slightly smaller amp turned up slightly more into the red zone, as I'm sure Little Walter did when he recorded this song, you'd be able to back off your attack without losing tone. You'd be able to create a little more workable dynamic range.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2010 5:42 AM
Adam makes some good points. The first I would do with you is teach you to relax. Then I would teach you to how listen. Then I would teach you how to get great acoustic tone. Then I would show you how to set up your amp and then I would teach you how to hold a mic.
Old N.O.D. set sail aboard the Good ship MBH it was about 25k's offshore he got the deck hand to fetch out the fishing gear from the locker:)
Oh Yeh suns shinein not a cloud in the sky, man gunna be some mighty good fishin today i say to my deck hand:)
Fetch me out some Bait whatch ya best choice of bait i say to the Decky, Mate he says MATE!! there been hooking the bigguns on this stuff:)
Beejeesuses Son that smells like shit WTF is it MATE!! WATCH OUT!!! don't get the shit on my shirt WTF is it called,, Elevator music he says gets them all the time:)
well pull my pants down and bugger me sideways i hooked the bigest Diggsblues Marlin a world record he was a whopper:)
Diggsblues...LOL @ having to post 5 videos because I said you weren't a "Master"! I didn't say you couldn't play harmonica. I have plenty of other videos I could have posted of me with my band that showcase my playing and singing, but didn't feel it necessary.
I have practiced martial arts for over 42 years, but do not consider myself a "Master". Anyway, no hard feelings.
Lots of other great comments, I will respond later when I have more time. Thanks again to all who responded to my thread.
LMFAO the last thing ill ever do is ask for advise on here cause half you guys suck for helping some one,the other half aint to bad,but man the ego's I thought guitar players had ego's i was wrong compared to harmonica players at least on this forum,Any time some one is good,half you guys get all shook up and start saying how the other is wrong sucks and how good you are,You could destroy a beginners confidence if they gave a fluck what you said,Sam knows he can play so you probelly dont bother him,but why would you want to hurt someones feelings for learning or trying to better themselves as a player.whos a master ,whos not, who's a master baiter fishing with NOD,You all sound good why have a ego or low self esteam.cause thats wrong and a good teacher wont do that to someone whos is trying to better there craft.:-(Sorry Adam if i wronged the creed.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2010 8:37 AM
@On topic - I think Sam sounds darn good! I want tips from him on how to play better, lol!
@Off topic- Im with Hobostubs actually. I think I have good questions but I tend to send them to specific people as oppossed to asking the forum. Im pretty sure Ill get maybe 5 good answers/suggestions, 3 okay responses, 4 or 5 insult responses, 20 rediculous responses, & somehow start a flamewar over overblows, lol.
We should all be working to help each other & stay on topic & nix the negativity cause if we were all sitting together at a bar or whatever we'd all be friendly & trading ideas & tips and even the neighsayers would be trying to overblow & play 12th.
Lastly, Diggs is a darn good guy & very fine accomplished player of more then just blues. I think you guys are misunderstanding his humor. Same with Buddha, he's a wonderful guy & great player.
Okay, Im off for wine tasting, live music, & lots of harmonica!
----------
~Ryan
"I play the harmonica. The only way I can play is if I get my car going really fast, and stick it out the window." - Stephen Wright
Pennsylvania - H.A.R.P. (Harmonica Association 'Round Philly)
Look I'm giving some reality here. If you ask for help don't always expect puppy dogs and rainbows. My new composition and arranging teacher just tore a bunch of my pieces apart.
If you question someone's ability expect a response and I would consider it their right.
I never said I was a master but I know I'm at least journey man.
The fact is not everyone sounds good. To tell people that isn't good for anyone. A balanced approached is better but everyone is blowing smoke someone has to have the courage to balance the scales.
Do you really think when I went to music school anybody cut me slack. I'm out there championing the harmonica at a major music college in the world do you think that was easy.
When I go out to play no matter what style I help to open people's ears to the possibilities of what can be done on the harmonica.
Sometimes I think the prejudice is against people that are good. I think we can now answer the question why don't more pros post here.
If people think it's an ego trip it's on you!!!
Some people would say the great Jazz Guitarist Jimmy Bruno had an attitude. I would always says Yeah but he earned it.
"...someone has to have the courage to balance the scales."
@diggs: When a good player comes to this forum and asks for constructive criticism, he's earned the right to it. It takes no courage whatever to joke that he should give up the instrument, then facetiously praise his investment in decent equipment, then suggest that he takes lessons. That's called mockery. You're better than that. We're all better than that.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2010 10:04 AM
i think you play great Diggsblues very very good,you youve forgoten more than ill know,And Buddha i kind of like his humor,took me awhile but hes allright,another super player i saw the interview he did on David barrets website ,I like him,I understand that sometime the aprentice/jouneyman/master philosophy is sometime break the ego/then rebuild it,but I personally feel that you can help/teach without making the student feel like crap,not that suger coating helps but why demoralize someone to get a point across,I know its the Old school way Ive been in the Army its built around the same principles,but Sam who is not a beginer by no means from what i heard was asking a profesional, a professional question.And look what happened,i usually keep my mouth shut cause i am a beginner but sometimes its hard to do on here if someones getting slammed for what? asking how to improv his tone,come on. Ryan said it right if we was in a bar talking harmonica i would like to think it would be alot less egoes,And im not pointing fingers at anybody.I myself would get angry and reject what you might be trying to teach me if you insulted me,cause deep down i have a low self esteam with music and i know what damage someone can do to a person with the wrong words.Sam sounded great and i dont think you hurt his confidence,but you could of hurt his feelings,you did mine and im just a outsider.looking in.You dont have to be perfect to make something that someone enjoys,although you should strive for the best you can do,And i really liked the jam i was impressed ,to me it was great but what do i know.I dont want to make any body mad i enjoy everything ive heard on here variety is what makes music so great.peace guys
I like the way you sound, the whole video sounded a little trembly but thats probably the video camera not picking up the bass. Would like to ear you live!
For the gear my personal taste is more with vintage stuff, i didnt like the Harp Attack when i tryed it.
Your using a green bullet, thats a big mic compared to the others, you might find it easier to get the sound you want with a smaller mic like a jt-30 or a stick mic if you dont have huge hands.
kudzrunner...thanks for taking the time for that very constructive post and the kind words. I can't believe that Adam said I play at a "high level"!!
BeardHarmonica...the video camera is an old Hi-8 Sony. It's at least 10 years old and has a very small microphone that doesn't pick up the bottom end very well. I'm thinking about investing in a Zoom Q3 that is supposed to have much better audio recording capability.
Thanks also to everyone else who responded to this thread. I have some things to work on. One thing for sure is I underestimated the importance of cupping the microphone and I will work on that. My goal was to improve as a harmonica player and I think this thread will help me do that. It certainly gave me a lot to think about.
Last Edited by on Sep 11, 2010 2:26 AM
