the_happy_honker
23 posts
Sep 11, 2010
1:24 PM
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I hope Greg Heumann doesn't mind if I reproduce his advice on cupping that he gave on Harp-L a few days ago.
"John, the simple answer is NO - TB is not required to get that great Chicago Blues Tone.... depending on which great blues player you're thinking of. As everyone else will surely tell you the human is the single biggest variable, etc. etc. There are lots of Chicago tones.
"However, when it comes to amplified playing, and the very big fat dark sound of say, Kim Wilson, Gary Smith or Steve Baker, then tongue blocking has a very real advantage and this is why: In order to get that super deep fat tone out of a tube amp you have to drive it very hard with the mic. Cupping is an art and it takes time. But you will notice that these players aren't just getting a good seal between their hands, mic and harp, but also are blocking off every open hole on the FRONT of the harp with their thumb, cheek hands, and..... mouth. About the only way I can ensure that no air escapes through open reeds on the front of the harp is to use tongue-block position, which allows me to keep the entire left side of the harp in my mouth (at least when I'm playing holes 1-5 or so.) Then I can use my hands, face and right thumb to block the open holes on the right. This technique produces the deepest "wah" possible when used acoustically, and drives the microphone far harder than if even a single hole is open on the front of the harp. All you have to to is unblock the 10 hole with your thumb, assuming you have the others covered, and you can hear the difference."
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N.O.D.
186 posts
Sep 11, 2010
7:18 PM
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Hobo , Sam knows he can play so you probelly dont bother him,
I know this he simple didn't understand my anolagy
was in his defence towards Diggs pots and pans comment posted,and BBQB backing his comment,it was uncalled for
I have my Zhen moments my anolagy was one of them:)
i followed it up with a clear anolagy i will try to speak in Laymens terms from now:(
who's a masterbaiter fishing with NOD:(
Bro you come fishing with me you will find out Im not such a bad guy,and can be a bit of a wacker:)
In now way was i trying to insult any person or member of this Forum:)
edited Question why am i sucking your sorry arses i did nothing wrong:( and couldn't give a rats ass :)
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I will die a miss understood mind
it's my Fait Cheers:)
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2010 6:10 AM
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Sam Pai Kenpo
39 posts
Sep 12, 2010
1:12 PM
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I went to see Rod Piazza and The Mighty Fliers last night in Brea, CA. He was playing through 2 Harp King Amplifers (4 x 10" Speakers each) and had a microphone to the PA at the rear of one of the Harp Kings. I've never seen an amp with the microphone at the rear of the speaker. His tone through that system was great. His technique and vast experience is obviously a big part of it, but when he sang or talked through the Harp Kings (via the bullet mic) the sound was very distorted.
I just got through playing my harmonica through my amp and worked on the cupping. I can see a definite difference when I concentrate on getting a tight cup.
Thanks again for pointing this out.
I still have a feedback issue and have to keep the microphone (into the PA) at a very low level.
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ZackPomerleau
1107 posts
Sep 12, 2010
2:23 PM
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The green bullet is a very high gain microphone and will caused feedback. When I switched it made it easier.
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LeeEdwards
87 posts
Sep 12, 2010
4:10 PM
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@Zack - What's your preference at the moment?
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"You will never get every possible thing out of an instrument, but the instrument will get every possible thing out of you" - Ray Charles.
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MP
827 posts
Sep 13, 2010
9:42 AM
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as far as the feedback issue.
is that a PA speaker in the rear?
is the jr you are micing in front of it?
if yes to both questions , then that is where your feedback is commming from. the 545 and the PA speaker are confused.
an amp you are micing should never be in front of the PA speakers.
is this the problem sam?
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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barbequebob
1221 posts
Sep 13, 2010
9:46 AM
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@Sam Pai Kenppo --- Rod usually uses a pair of 6-10 Hark Kings rather than the 4-10 setup. He never feedsback with the 6-10 and is far more than loud enough that he doesn't need to be miked up at all. The only way you are not gonna have a dirty sound playing thru a harp mic is if you went straight thru the PA anmd eschewed all the harp gear stuff too many players are often over dependant on (AKA doing it more like Howlin' Wolf, Junior Wells, or James Cotton).
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Sam Pai Kenpo
40 posts
Sep 13, 2010
10:19 AM
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MP...Funny you should mention that. I was thinking about moving that speaker box today so I can get behind it also when I play. Too much PA for my little living room. I think you are on to something, thanks for pointing that out.
barbequebob...that was a typo, I think it was 6-10 in the Harp Kings. No feedback, he was plenty loud, if anything just a little too much on top and he was playing outdoors. Thanks.
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captainbliss
272 posts
Sep 13, 2010
11:26 AM
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@Sam Pai Kempo:
Nice playing, enjoyed watching your video. Others have mentioned posture, I know, but... Your shoulders are all hunched up! Dunno about you, but relaxed shoulders do wonders for my tone...
xxx
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Sam Pai Kenpo
41 posts
Sep 13, 2010
11:55 AM
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@captainbliss, thanks, you make an excellent point. That is another thing I need to work on and never thought about before I made this thread.
Just moved the speakers around, can't wait for band rehearsal tonight to see if that helps the feedback issue.
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MP
828 posts
Sep 13, 2010
12:27 PM
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hey sam,
i learned some stuff from the biggest sound company in the US. (clair brothers of litiz, PA.)
another thing to avoid is having your miced amp in the line of fire of other amps...gtr. bs. etc. even though the 545 is unidirectional, it'll pick up (bleed)signals from stuff too close to it. even the bass drm should be avoided if it is sending air into the back of your amp.
uuhhh, hope this helps.
cheers, MP
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MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Mojokane
106 posts
Sep 13, 2010
6:56 PM
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pretty darn good playing.
'San pai kenpo',...I saw Rod, too..in Hermosa, the night before. He was using only one Harp King. They are 80 watts going through 6 10's....he had two, like when you saw him, but up north at the 14th Annual Eureka Blues By The Bay Blues Festival the week before. And it was mic'd. And he had a delay pedal, too. Kim was last, but it was friggin so cold nobody felt like sticking around ( I did). The show must go on. Kim and his new Fabulous Thunderbirds line up were doing it good. Not bad. Kim should jsut call it Kim WilsonBlues Band. He's out grown The T-birds. He's awesome, too. Both in one day. I thought I had died, and went to heaven. They both lived up to my expectaations. A must go see for anyone in to blues harp. There are many others, but these guys are two of the few greats still alive today.(imho)..
If any thing, Rod could have turned down at Hermosa, and up at Eureka. Every venue is different. Rod is damn good, man.
But even Honey had to turn over to him to say, with a smile, "your too loud", I read her lips, and it looked like she was saying that. He was definetly too loud for me and my date. SHit happens.
He's no doubt pretty deaf from all the shows, and abnormal levels of volume over the years. He's the real deal, though. He's a harp gearhead, too. He modifies mics, and gets a pretty penny for his creations, I hear. like the famous Rod Piazza Mod of the 90's? Kevins harps had them in the catalog? I forgot exactly.
..the 59Bassman RI was a good recommendation(MP). A little more affordable, too. Something that won't require all sorts of pedals and additonal effects to get a desired tone. The early 90's RI's would be more affordable. And nothing wrong with an older more broken-in set up, too.
Try tubing down the AX7's with something a little more tolerable,like a 12AU or AY...or even an AT. Do your homework on how to tube down an amp.
There's got to be a way to avoid feedback. It sucks. I know.
It's always the damn harp players who feeds back! But once they dial it in, watch out.
Great job on 'Off The Wall'.
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2010 7:07 PM
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Joe_L
622 posts
Sep 13, 2010
7:09 PM
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@ the Original Poster - Just keep playing. I know a lot of guys that have been playing for years that would love to sound like you. Play out as often as you can. Sit in and/or jam wherever you can. Keep honing your craft.
Record it. Listen to it. Make changes and repeat the process.
Don't believe anyone that tells you you can not get good solid tone using a lip pursing embouchure. Lots of great players with really good tone do both and quite frequently, you can not tell the difference. Breathing from the diaphragm is important.
Last Edited by on Sep 13, 2010 7:10 PM
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Sam Pai Kenpo
42 posts
Sep 13, 2010
9:14 PM
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Thanks MP...moving the PA speaker helped, no feedback tonight at band rehearsal with plenty of volume. Concentrating on cupping the microphone also improved my tone tonight.
Thanks mojokane and Joe_L.
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Sam Pai Kenpo
43 posts
Sep 15, 2010
6:37 AM
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LOL @ the beginning of this thread: "I was hoping to get some feedback".
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chromaticblues
177 posts
Sep 15, 2010
7:59 AM
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Sam Joe L had some good advice there!
A couple of things I read that I would not agree with and I'll tell you why. I don't agree with telling someone to buy a Bassman or any amp bigger than the one you have. If anything I would say get a smaller one like 5 watts.
OK if you play in a club that holds about 150 - 200 people then a bassman will be perfect. If you play in a small bar were you can't turn it high enough to get the warm cause you'll be to loud now your sounding somewhat thin with $1000 dollar amp. If you play out side a big park (or something like that) You'll have to mic it anyway! Now if you get a five watt amp and figure out how far up on the volume you have to go to get the sound you like your set! You mic that and just adjust the PA level to each gig! A 3 - 5 watt amp with a 10" speaker set up right is a beautiful thing! OH and with out feed back!!!!!
OH and I'll take Joe L's advice a step further. Try recording yourself with a SP 20 and then with a LO doing the same song. I think you'll notice the SP 20's have a warmer sound.
Just tring to help! It's all the same shit I and many people have already been though!
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MP
834 posts
Sep 15, 2010
9:35 AM
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cool Sam, cheers MP----------
MP
hibachi cook for the yakuza
doctor of semiotics
superhero emeritus
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Sam Pai Kenpo
44 posts
Sep 15, 2010
11:13 PM
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Thanks chromatic blues and thanks again MP.
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