After sleeping on this rage Zhin laid on me, I have decided to leave this forum. If anyone was to read my posts where he claimed I was raging on him, you will find them of no anger. He created "my anger" and the arguement with himself. His were full of cursing, put downs, and rudeness aimed at me over things I said about one really can't commment on the tone of an instrument when it was recorded on a cheap mic. Then I am told to calm down. I never was hot! Too nuts for me........
I grew up on the streets of Newark NJ, played the rough black blues clubs around the country, and have been a real gun toting/face breaking tough guy. It is a life that I have grown beyond and will not engage anymore with the likes of it.
This place has a lot of good people, but there is a core group here that seems to think the main thing to being a musician is being a gangster, the blues is a joke, and anyone who was fortunate enough to play, live, tour, record, with the blues greats, is just a braggart. Women have been disrespected here more times than I can count, people have threatened to kill each other with weapons and dogs, and races/religions put down. I just want to talk about the harp and blues.......
I have hung around here to share the experiences I have had with the blues greats, to show there is a different way to do music, hopefully inspire new players, and share my music for free. I wish Adam good luck with continuing this forum. IMO keeping such negative people on it will run off the majority of level headed folks and no way will the pros hang here for long. I also want to thank everyone here for their support of my musical approach. If you want to reach me, you can do it via my soundclick, youtube or myspace pages. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
I've been on the internet since before most people ever heard of it. I was emailing in 1979. I've learned to just ignore this sort of stuff. Water off a duck's back. But I've also learned that if you leave any room for misinterpretation in what you write, it can and usually will happen. I try to be very careful. There will always be jerks, disagreements and misunderstandings - it is a fact of internet life. But there are also nuggets of incredibly useful knowledge and experience, yours among them. I certainly hope you'll change your mind and stay.
I am truly sorry to hear that Walter. I've always enjoyed your stories and valued your comments when I've put my stuff out there. Thanks very much for being a friend in the past. This forum will have lost a loyal amd entertaining contributor.
I've subscribed to your YouTube channel and hope you'll put some videos up showing your new studio when it gets to completion.
It's a pity that those who could have learnt so much from you chose not to. Their loss and sadly ours too.
I would bet my stake that the incident spurning this was a misinterpretation of the written word, which doesn't account for sarcasm, jest, etc. I've wanted to reach into the screen a few times myself and deck the person on the other end-but it's the nature of the internet and some forums. Plus,many folks' online personas are often much bolder than their real personality. Makes it harder to navigate this thing we call the internet.
You'll be missed if you must go, walter, but take care of yourself if that's your choice, and keep on pumpin' out those tunes! ----------
Crescent City Harmonica Club Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 1:39 PM
I have not posted here in a long time. I do lurk and keep up with the ongoing spats on occasion. The reason I stopped giving my opinion on this forum is the same reason Walter may become a loss of knowledge and inspiration for many. I was ripped in the same way by the same member. Walter you will be missed if you choose to leave.
I've got to say Walter, you are letting an argument with one person on one day ruin your experience with a whole bunch of people, and we all lose for that. Almost everyone on this forum has taught me something at some point, or made me laugh, or made me think. On a bad day, a couple of them have made me crazy, but I just go out and kill a hooker and the next day I'm fine again.
A couple days later I log on and everything is fine. I hope you reconsider.
edit: (No hookers were actually killed in the process of me getting over forum issues. Really. It's just a metaphor for how heated a things can get when people make posts back and forth on the internet. I don't support killing anyone, so haha, whoever that was who sent the cops to my apartment... Well the jokes on you because I just sent 23 hookers to your apartment and your wife answered the door. When you get home all your harmonicas will be piled up outside the front door.) All hookers involved are actually Jon Lee Hooker impersonators.
Walter, that's a damn shame, man. You got so much good stuff to give. PUH-LEEEEEEEEZE don't let the actions of an inexperienced pup drive you away from here. Remember, if you do...then he wins! Don't let him win. Throw him on ignore/dismissal and continue with your thing, man. The harp world needs your tales and tunes, and all the rest. I LOVED THE ONE ABOUT THE GUITAR PLAYER IN MISSISSIPPI...."begging for a ride home". Toooooooo funny! Regards, Joe Lee
Holy cow. Dude. I, as a total newbie to the art (and science!) of playing harmonica I was totally jazzed (blued?) to find Adam and this forum.
Initially I was highly enthusiastic sucking up the good vibes and knowledge here like a sponge. Until this other stuff started happening. I thought I was going to stop visiting the forum. And I did for a while. Then I came back. To more ka-ka. Jeesh, OK I can filter the BS out I says to self. No biggie. But it's difficult when you see this stuff dominating the topics. Not what I came here for. You either - I understand.
It's disappointing to see someone such as yourself (what I consider one the high caliber participants in the forum) to say see-ya. Too bad.
I enjoy and value your musicality and creativity that you bring to the forum.
Obviously you will do what you feel necessary, but I hate to see someone leave because of [insert whatever rant/flame/insult here]
Anyways, as a zero clout participant here, that's my $0.02
---------- The more I learn about harmonica, the more I learn how much more there is to learn.
Hi Walter. I was affraid that you might take this route. You'll be greatly miss, you're a link to lots of great bluesman and some of my favorite artist. I respect your decision take care of yourself.
Sorry to hear you're feeling that way Walter - I enjoy hearing your stories. Anyone feeling pushed out is a bad thing. If Zhin were to go I'd miss his contributions too. I'd urge you to reconsider.
I think Todd is right. If people just asked the question "what did you mean by xyz?" or "was that post directed at me?" instead of flying off the handle, then I bet 99% of these spats would fizzle out before they got going. Almost always it's just someone not expressing themselves well (I was guilty of that earlier this week) or someone reading the wrong meaning into a post.
Well Walter, i hope your mind changes too. You are one of the few here who have walked the line, played the gigs and share your experiences with us.
Whilst it is great to see how others progress and read to their views on everything but the harmonica and the blues, you are one of a small few here who can share a long life of living with the blues.
Good luck with all ahead of you should you not return but please give as much value to those of us who enjoy you sharings here as to a minority who maybe just dont get it.
Walter..please don't. You are one of the "voices of reason"...and I love your stories ! ----------
Music is your own experience, your own thoughts, your wisdom. If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn. They teach you there's a boundary line to music. But, man, there's no boundary line to art. - Charlie Parker
c'mon, walter. it's been said on this thread and threads like this on other forums; leaving because of one person's post on one thread? i gotta believe at one point you've had an off day. and i'm sure you've run across folks that have been having a bad day and spoke harshly. it seems to me that if you enjoy this forum, and i believe you do since you left once before and come back, you should just let it go. dont read his posts anymore. i am pretty confident that i aint the only one that skims, or skips entirely, posts from certain folks. i am lucky. as a member of the bushman forum, i get to hear many of these stories and hear his spontobeat over there.
well Walter i hate to see you go,but i can reach you on the sites i have befor i can again,But Ill miss you on here.This place is getting to be some entainment just for the soap oprea types drama that developes here,Lol i read it for the entainment value,post a song now and then and try to stay out of the heated discussions,most times,and its kind of entaining that way,But staying out of the heated things is the trick cause im like you and can get to emtionally in it.But somtimes a break is needed i hope to meet you some time maybe we can jam a tune or 2 peace
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 4:03 PM
@walter please reconsider and sleep on it-I truly believe you have much respect from the vast majority of this forum,besides chris has chewed out zhin(justifiably) and put him in his place
Walter, I would really hate to see you leave the forum over this incident. You are one of only a few contributers on this forum who have an actual link to blues history,
Your music, anecdotes, and advice simply can't be replaced.
"I would bet my stake that the incident spurning this was a misinterpretation of the written word, which doesn't account for sarcasm, jest, etc."
What I read was clear as a bell. Just like Walter said, he was commenting on trying to hear good tone on inferior recordings.
"Zhin is under control again."
He found his meds?
This forum does kinda suck as far as belligerent hot-heads populating it. I've only seen two worse, and the subject on them matter gauranteed heated debate. (I don't go to them anymore.) Who would ever think the subject of this forum would invite heated debate on a regular basis?!
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 4:22 PM
Walter, last time you said you were leaving, about nine months ago, I told you in a private email how much I valued your contributions and I asked you to stay. You stayed. I'm glad you did.
This time around the drama is feeling a little stale to me. Gangsters! That's silly. This whole thread is silly. We're blues guys. We're acting like a pity party. Walter, of all people, should be shocked by this.
A vital forum occasionally gets a little bumptious. Your humble webmaster and his dedicated moderators, have been busting ass trying to keep things civil without turning into the Nanny State. It ain't easy. Frequently we are second-guessed or discussed to death. But we soldier on.
Nobody likes being dissed. We have rules for that and we try to enforce them. In particular, I try to maintain a fine line between allowing anarchy and demanding civility.
Zhin went notably over the line and dissed a long-timer. That was wrong. Zhin has apologized. He has my respect for that.
This forum does OK for itself. New members keep clamoring to join. I have to beat them back with a stick. I do my best to keep order here, and to be just. I'd appreciate slightly more respect for the forum itself--including from you, Walter.
I don't tolerate gangsters. When Buddha has pushed things too far, I email him and bark loudly. I try to keep this place a democracy, and I try not to let my skin get too thin.
I also don't beg anybody twice to stay, including Walter. That sort of begging is its own form of disrespect. People know what they need to do. Walter will always be welcome on this forum, to share the fruits of his long life in the blues.
I concur with others of positive re-enforcement here. I always enjoy Walter's informative posts.
I have a nephew that is still immature at 27 that thinks he has a right to disrespect his elders because we are all "equal". I can remember to being a smart-mouth "know-it-all" until I got schooled. Then I grew up. ( Now I'm a satirical, older, know-it-all ! ) Obligatory smiley emoticon indicating jest : 8> }
Really, I'm getting up there, too....but realize that I am learning more now, and more than I expected.
Take a break, Walter, but I hope you come back from time-to-time.
@Walter refer to my posting harp switching-you see how the others chimed in and told me this is a common practice and quite sure you have done this and would be something you would add being one of the most seasoned vets in the forum-just consider staying on-you have a lot of support
YOU CAN'T LEAVE WALTER! cause if you do, another voice of reason disappears and the chances of this place becoming a lawless harp country (not to be mistaken for "country harp" ) are increasing again.... You don't want THAT to happen, do you? You been around worse and came out good... let this one not be any different... I hope you reconsider...
This one was for you too (and inspired by your musical approach)
---------- DutchBones Tube
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 5:29 PM
Shoot Walter, wish someone here could talk you out of it. It's our loss.
My post here might not be too well thought out as i just got caught by surprise by your departure and I'm in a hellfire rush to get somewhere.
About what happened to you the other day - This is just the same old Mr. Jones. In a world like this It's always the guy who has something going on, the one who carries something useful who's going to wind up getting dumped on. Pretty disapointing.
It looks to me like you just wont let your peace be stolen from you and that you aint the kind who wastes his time. You always seem to make a lot of good sense and I don't think that I could blame you for your decision under the circumstances. We all owe you the respect that you have surely earned.
Thanks for the music, thanks for the good word. I have a feeling that I'll be seeing you out there sometime soon.
I can see that I'll have to spend some time reviewing the idiosyncratic ranting levels before I jump back in to this emotional harmonica pre-school.
In the words of the 20th Century philosopher, Rodney King......nevermind.
Gussow references (to paraphrase) beating back new members with a stick. To me, that's a Hate Crime.
Walter. I love that you are as goofy a bastard as anyone that I've ever read or listened to. You are truly one of the people that I really hope to meet in person some day. I am bummed that I missed you in NorCal by a few years. But, take it for what its worth, let it go dude.
As for Zhin, I have met him in person. I have a true fondness for him. I read his words and they made sense to me when I pictured the man and the delivery had he spoken them in my presence. I can tell you that he is a highly energized young man who clearly (in my mind) blurts many times before full cranial engagement. But, while he is interpreted as hot-headed by you and this crowd, he is not a maliciously driven person. Like I said, for what its worth.
Not to be an 'age-ist'.....but, I would ask both of you to consider the generation, culture, geography and any possible unknowns that the other may possess.
That said, I'm available for Cage Match refereeing.
Walter, I'm mostly a reader, not a writer here. I will say this though: you are one of a handful of people here that I make a point of reading. I enjoy your stories, your even-handed commentary and just the way you carry yourself. You're a class act.
Walter, for the record I value your presence here. If you leave I'll track you down one way or the other, you are a true artist and someone I would love to meet in person sometime!
Buzadero thanks for what you wrote. I was looking for something to say to that end but couldn't have said it any simpler and more eloquent than that.
Thank you for some insight into Zhin, I really don't want to have any part in vilifying him or anybody else.
I think it is quite likely that he feels misunderstood as much as Walter.
I would love to see a "Spielberg Moment" come out of this and it may not happen, but dare to dream!
Love to all,
Shane (forgive the sappiness, I'm seriously sappy)
An internet forum, specifically created to share information related to an instrument... Everyone has their own idea of what it is and how it's used. Many, if not all of us here, have learned something about the harmonica regardless of our experience or expertise. Some of us even chomped the same dirt back in May, and henceforth became brothers, able to put a face to the moniker, and erase a mystification that's found here only through our keyboards. That's something very special boys. I hold this place in very high regard, still, even after voicing my opinions about what should and shouldnt be allowed here.
I've seen folks come and go in my short time here. Adam has been most kind to some, who, in the face of booting, came to their senses and did what was right. It must be difficult, as moderator, for him to hold everyone to the creed, boot someone for flagrantly violating that creed, bring them back when a sincere apology is given, amend the creed, and have people not abuse it, knowing they can just follow the formula others have and still have a place here.
I didnt read the spat between Zhin and Mr. Tore, i actually missed that day. I DID read what Walter said the yesterday, as well as Zhin, and assumed that all was right in the MBH world, but whatever anyone has to say about a man, Walter, that would make him feel there is nothing more to contribute here? well, that just plain sucks for those of us who are willing to listen.
Walter, if you're reading this: It took me some time to get used to your recordings. At first, I didnt like your chops...I thought you were just honking like a goose. I assumed you were not focused, that your music was lacking substance, that your tunes were a sketch pad, if you will, for songs on down the line that would be more complete, and most of which would end up in the scrap bin. I DID listen to nearly every one of the songs you posted here, in an effort to further my assumptions, or to look for you to break them. I will say that regardless of my opinion of your music, then & now, your contributions here in other areas have been just what this place needed. No one who wants to really be a bluesman has any room to say shit about how youve chosen to walk in your own shoes. It's amazing how relevant, real world, and spot on your REAL LIFE experiences have fit into this MBH community. It would be a disservice for you to exit in such fashion. Take some time off...lurk...as I've done before, and re-wet your feet with us when you feel comfortable. So..I wont say goodbye, Walter...I'll say goodnight. ---------- Kyzer's Travels Kyzer's Artwork
Kuds I am surprised.. but may be I don't know the history that you have with Water. But as you already know I came to the same conclusion yesterday... I made my post and you took it down. Are you saying that I am in it for the drama too? The only reason that I checked back in tonight was that Walter and I talked today outside the forum.... and separately we came back to the same conclusion. I was curious to see what he was going to do. I also don't know why you took my post down... maybe you found something in it offensive, if that is the case... then I am sorry. As I said you worked very hard to get this going... I want very much to stay and support you... and the blues.... but I have to balance my time, health, and sanity against these contrary individuals... and I am afraid if not pulling out completely... I will be seriously pulling back.
You know.. I would normally do this quietly... and not leave a wake.... but we are here to be mentors as well as comrades... and there is nothing to be learned if I just go away. ----------
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 9:37 PM
I can say that this whole thing has been nothing more than a big misunderstanding.
Waltertore, man up and take your post. DON'T BE SELFISH. Since you feel there's not enough room for 2 big egos like us I'm going to leave for good. I know some have been wishing that already anyways and I am GLAD to oblige with pleasure.
I know that NO ONE wishes you to leave.
Unless it's about the exoticness and novelty value of hearing blues harmonica related stories in Malaysia, just about ANYONE can fit my shoes. I am replaceable. Therefore I see nothing selfish in my decision.
If anyone contacts me outside of MBH for anything, I'll be glad to entertain.
Plus, I probably am scaring away a lot of people here. I'm just too fucking crazy even for blues harmonica players.
My presence seems to be hurting this community and that's the last thing I ever intended. This community was my blues harmonica "birthplace" and I truly care about it. I love MBH and what Adam has done to make it the way it is today. I want other young players to benefit from it like how I have. I will not be posting anymore or even lurk. I am gone if that's what it takes to restore the order of things here.
There is nothing anyone can say that will change my mind. I don't need anyones sympathy, pity, hate, or support for this decision.
If anyone wants anything from me you know where to find me.
Whatever happened happened, and I don't understand this big issue. Just ignore the situation if you don't like it, unless it is such a HUGE issue to you. Otherwise, let it be.
On another note, I am sorry to hear what Zhin has said. Zhin is a very close friend of mine and I have known him since 2009. He is such a great person and a great player who is doing incredible things, he should be an inspiration to all. I am saddened to know he won't be around as he always had great input and music to share. We all have our own little piece of history to give, but I for one will miss his part incredibly.
Last Edited by on Aug 23, 2010 10:20 PM
this is crap.. zhit, you should have been kicked out already, considering adam has given you 2 strikes.. seems like your developing a trend.. i guess its walters fault, who, oh wait, walter doesnt have any strikes! you man up, you admit that you asked for opinions, and then sh@t on people for giving them.. and acted hard when called out about it.. you shouldnt have to leave, cause you never should have been given a 3rd chance.. and this is how you repay adam, even in your goodby letter, you still are messing with walter.. i was wrong last night, you are a keyboard commando! they always type tough..
thanks for being such an upstanding guy.. your a real winner in my book!
im sorry adam, but im pissed off.. walter was kind to me, he let me drive to his home, and spent his time talking harp, and playing for me.. me, someone who he had never met.. and left an open invite for me to come back, and it bothers me 1: to see him leaving 2: to see some punk typing trash about him 3: that it was ever allowed to get this far in the first place..
walter, i hope you dont go, i would rather see you just take a long break, and jump back in later down the road when it feels right.. i will email you soon.. take it easy!
edit: now that i think about it, zhit, you coould have made "your" good riddance thread, but you had to highjack walter's goodbye thread in stead.. you really are a piece.... of work.. ---------- Marty we're no GOD
Sorry zack, Im tired, a bit upset, and if I remember we had a go last night too for no reason.. But alas, it was deleted... Not sure how a few BIGGER letters help you read, but here, just for you :) ---------- Marty we're no GOD
People, this isn't an assault case. No crime has been committed. I've had a couple people in my life who were so toxic I've had to make an effort to avoid them. Nothing I've seen here comes anywhere close to that.
Walter, I like you. I like your stories, but it's your choice if you want to stay around.
Zhin, people quit here. You apologized. It's Walter's choice if he wants to leave. We've asked him to stay. If he doesn't want to stay around for the people he does get along with that's his choice.
If you two don't get along it's easy enough for you two to just skip each others' posts.
Gwood, I count at least 3 attacks in your post. I'd suggest you reread it and consider some edits.
I used to work in a restaurant kitchen where the boss screamed at everybody all night long, including his wife, and although we were all kids (I was 25), we just quickly realised that he was stressed out and didn't mean a syllable of anything he said, so we just ignored him, didn't get upset, and at the end of each evening we took food out of the fridge, ate and he joined us and was cool and friendly, and I could handle that. Yet at the age of 50 I get really upset if I've had an argument with someone I've never met on an internet forum! I don't understand it.
Walter's decision might be seen as petulant if it were just the result of Zhin, but also I could understand it - I've quit one forum where I had an enemy who doubted every word I said, and I grew to realise that his silences were indications of the times when he agreed with me, or if I had an argument with someone else, his silences were an indication of when he disagreed with them! I got sick of all that and quit.
But Walter is a busy man with lots of real people around him, so I doubt it's just the result of this one spat. I expect he's weighed up how busy he is with real people and the real world and whether this forum is really worth the effort.
---------- Andrew, gentleman of leisure, noodler extraordinaire.
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2010 12:03 AM
I'll be sorry to see both Walter or Zhin go. I've enjoyed Walter's storys and music and i've also enjoyed Zhin's video's and contributions. I'm just hoping everyone can go back to being friends and this all blows over and we can all get back to the the important subject which brought us all here in the first place the HARMONICA. ----------
Last Edited by on Aug 24, 2010 12:49 AM
