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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
I Like to Play Pretty
I Like to Play Pretty
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wolfkristiansen
37 posts
Aug 04, 2010
9:49 PM
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...and sweet, and wistful and vulnerable once in a while, all those soft things. Sometimes I like to put a "cry" in the harp, as best I can. Anybody else like to to do this? Not all the time, but sometimes? Another description for how I like to play is "melodic".
Here's a sample of something I recorded eight months ago. I was 61. The harp is in the second half of the song. If you have to, skip the non-harp beginning, though I think it sets the mood for the rest. The "pretty" part is at the start of the second 12 bars of the harp solo. It's two notes, the 4th and 7th hole on a diatonic, with holes 5 and 6 tongue blocked. I stole it from Little Walter's harp accompaniment to John Brim's "You Got Me Where You Want Me" (1956). I don't often hear those two notes played like that; probably too trite or sentimental for the macho players.
I posted this song once before. I'm hoping more will hear, and more will comment, if the song is in its own post with its own topic-- playing pretty. Truth be told, I'm proud of it. Have a listen:
Here are some of the things this clip is NOT-- innovative, advanced, adventuresome, technically difficult, arresting, amazing, modern.
Nevertheless, tell me what you think (a) about the clip, and (b) the general idea of playing harp with the moods I mentioned at the start of this post. If nobody responds, I'll get the message-- my playing, and this topic, are a big yawn. It's all good, I'm winding down in my harp career, I can handle it.
Conveying moods means a lot to me as I play-- they aren't always wistful or vulnerable, they can be angry or happy or tough or doomy or playful or whatever the song calls for. That depends on the inherent message of the song and where the singer is going with it. I try to make my harp fit, in keeping with my longstanding view that the singer and the song are more important than impressing the audience with your chops.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 2:23 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
724 posts
Aug 04, 2010
10:05 PM
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winding down? in some fashion, you know you'll be playing till they close the lid right? Its just like life, man, you start out playing for yourself, and in the end you play, once again, for yourself. I really enjoyed the clip. I dig simplicity very much. Though you go on to explain yourself, I, for one, dont think it was needed at all...you are a master of your own domain, and quite frankly, I'll bet you know so.
Playing pretty is what made me fall in love with the harp in the first place. Ive been chugging along for two years and have only REALLY become comfortable calling the harmonica a harp for a short while. I thought I wasnt good enough, or cool enough with it to call it what some of these guys do here...
Your vibrato is just right, something I still havent made automatic just yet. (but im close) And you chose your 'words' perfectly in sync with the tune. Bravo Wolf, my names Kyzer and I dont recognize your name, so welcome to the forum, and trust me bro, you fit right in...
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Joe_L
509 posts
Aug 04, 2010
10:38 PM
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Why wind down?
I thought your playing was really nice.
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KingoBad
319 posts
Aug 04, 2010
10:44 PM
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I know I have heard James Cotton play that chord and sweetly I might add....
I mean next your gonna say it's not manly for a guy to wear womens' underwear to the hardware store... wait... was that out loud writing or in my head writing...?
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toddlgreene
1622 posts
Aug 05, 2010
4:56 AM
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Wolf-That was very sweet, very melodic playing-you're not the only one who likes to play that way, either. As for winding down, I'm with Kyzer-plenty of time for that after you're in the box, my friend. Please keep it up. I feel all Christmasey now-even though it's gonna be around 100 degrees outside today(again).
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Todd L Greene, Co-Founder
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kudzurunner
1729 posts
Aug 05, 2010
5:08 AM
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Very nice playing! I'm glad that somebody has finally started a thread on this topic. I've always insisted that blues players needed to know how to play "sweet" as well as "rough," so you and I agree. You're quite right that the 4/7 octave--a chord, actually, as you correctly call it, not an octave--is pretty, and that's because it uses the major third without any blue shading or flattening. But you also get the sweet or pretty sound from the 5 blow (the major 6th), which you deploy repeatedly in the first chorus of your solo. You also work the 2 blow, also a major 6th, into your solo a few times. The major 6th has always been one of my favorite notes--and one of the quickest ways of achieving a sweet blues sound. Many players forget it's there and instead use the 5 draw (flat 7th), which immediately moves them into "rough" or hard-bluesy territory.
As for the ideological edge to your OP: you're fighting a battle with a fantasized opponent, not with me or any other actual player who haunts this forum. I don't know any player here who thinks that being innovative, advanced, adventuresome, technically difficult, arresting, amazing, or modern should displace knowing how to listen to a singer, play with finesse, and deepen rather than confuse or explode the mood of a particular piece. That being said, what I PARTICULARLY like about your playing here is that it is, in fact, quite adventuresome. Rather than hewing to a preestablished form of traditionalist patterning, it dares to risk new combinations of notes, held for durations that aren't by-the-book. You're definitely not trying to replicate a solo you got off some old record. You're trying to make real music in real time. That's good, and you deserve to be proud.
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 7:13 AM
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Sandy88
71 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:22 AM
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Paul Butterfield's 'done a lot of wrong things' is a great example of pretty playing. Your solo sounded great
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waltertore
827 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:04 AM
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nice playing wolf! I enjoy a pretty harp anyday to a wild one. Your playing on that song held my interest for the whole solo. Most songs I listen to by harp players loses me in a few seconds because they are so in your face. For me, playing pretty leaves a ton of space for the option to put in a shot of wild, which to my ears, has a much bigger effect than just wailing pedal to the metal all day. This is my kind of thread! Walter
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Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 10:59 AM
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Tuckster
692 posts
Aug 05, 2010
7:05 AM
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I liked it Wolf. What wrong with melodic? I strive for that in my own playing. And like you,I feel I'm there to serve the song,to always play in context to the song we're doing. Music is all about emotions and moods. Playing it any other way is just ego tripping. IMHO
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bigd
195 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:15 AM
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Indeeeeed! Love pretty playing. Thanks for that. It's a big part of the reason I am really satisfied by Todd Parrot and Lee Oscar's playing. And I love Adam's diction here: "you're fighting a battle with a fantasized opponent". I'm going to somehow insert that into my daily argument with my girlfriend tonight! d
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kudzurunner
1730 posts
Aug 05, 2010
10:43 AM
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In fairness to Wolf, I have indeed used all the terms he brackets (and places under the sign of suspicion) as terms of praise: innovative, advanced, amazing, modern, etc. Many of the jazz musicians I love deserve those terms of praise: Bird, Dizzy, Monk, Sonny Rollins, Michel Camillo, etc.
But I've never, ever suggested--not once--that sweet, tasteful, responsive harmonica playing is something to be sneered at. Quite the reverse: I greatly admire such playing, and strive for it myself.
My own personal ideal is to find a way of incorporating both of those poles in my own music. Sweet and rough. Deep and fleet. Whispery and powerful. Rooted and modern. Old school and innovative.
In any context where the harp player is accompanying a singer, as in the example of his own playing that Wolf has offered above, the harp player's duty is to support the singer and add to the song. This means not playing all over the singer's notes (although there are some exceptions, the most notable being Sonny Terry); executing solos that complement the message the singer is trying to put across and, if possible, accentuate or deepen its emotional resonance; and, within reason and carefully, to add to the larger effect of the performance by showing off a little.
I make this last point knowing it will be misinterpreted. Instrumentalists have to be very careful about not upstaging the singer. By the same token, shrewd singer-performers know that having a flashy soloist in the band, one whose twists and turns draw applause, can help create excitement and put people in the seats next time in town. There's a fine line between being flashy enough to contribute to the overall energy of the performance and being so flashy that you end up stealing the spotlight and distorting the overall shape and feel of the performance. Good harp players know the difference. Muddy, for what it's worth, always wanted a strong harp player in his bands, and Little Walter--a conspicuously flashy but also responsive and tactful player--was his favorite. Think about "Standing Around Crying." It's hard to imagine that cut without LW's harp, and his harp is ALL over it, in an adventurous, amazing, and distinctly modern way. LW took risks and pushed right to the edge of the acceptable role for a harp-playing accompanist. Actually, he stepped way beyond the edge in that cut.
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nacoran
2420 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:15 PM
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Very nice. I am in the pretty playing camp myself (or at least I try to be.) I'm not sure I like the fades in the song. They sound too much like they are done mechanically and not by the players getting more quiet, but that's a mix thing not a harp thing.
As a site etiquette thing, your HTML seems to be set to autoplay. Some people may be on computers listening to other things they may want to finish or pause before listening or may have the proverbial baby in the next room. There are some different issues depending on what player you are using and what browser people are playing on (I'm using Chrome). They can screw up even the best intentions. I'd have to look up how to fix it. If you want, I can, but if you know how to do it, could you save me the trouble? Very nice playing though!
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Nate
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nacoran
2421 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:18 PM
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Actually, I think maybe I'll have to look it up. There is a funny issue with Chrome. You have to do something a little differently than normal. I had to look it up once before. It was a pain in the butt. No worries.
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Nate
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wolfkristiansen
38 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:28 PM
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Hi Nacoran-- You're the one who taught me how to post streaming sounds, I thank you for that. The song only starts when I hit "play" on IE7 (at work, don't tell the boss), and IE8 (at home).
Regarding the fade, you are right-- this is actually a 7 minute song. I took out the middle and the end so as not to take up too much of everyone's time, also so the complete song wouldn't be replicated endlessly around the 'net. The singer would shoot me if that happened.
wolf k.
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nacoran
2422 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:39 PM
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<embed src="http://www.4shared.com/embed/129612552/c0a1a359" width="420" height="19" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></embed>
<embed src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9632368/04%20Merry%20Christmas%20Baby.mp3" width="350" height="40" autostart="false" type="audio/mpeg" loop="false"></embed>
Ok, theoretically, the first code is the code GH used on the practice your forum skills thread, and the second is from this thread. I tried pasting the url into GH's code, but it still autoplays. Any ideas, anyone?
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Nate
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Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 2:41 PM
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tookatooka
1635 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:44 PM
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Hi Wolf, as has been said before very nice playing indeed. I love that 4/7 chord and must try to use that somewhere.
Please keep posting your harp playing. It's great to talk harp but even better to hear what forum members do. Oh! please don't say you're starting to wind down, you're only a year older than me and I've only just started. You've got a long way to go yet.
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 2:45 PM
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nacoran
2423 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:45 PM
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Yeah, there is a strange issue with Chrome. I knew how to fix it, but my computer is broken and I'm posting from a borrowed laptop. I don't have access to my bookmarks to find the solution. It's all good though. If someone knows the answer I'm kind of curious, but it's not a big deal. Now it's just become a puzzle to me!
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Nate
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tookatooka
1636 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:48 PM
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@Nacoran, the GH code is OK for mp3's but wolf's soundfile is Quicktime. A whole different deal I would have thought. It doesn't autoplay for me on IE8.
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STET. Just looked at the source code and can confirm I don't know what I'm talking about. Over.
************
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2010 2:52 PM
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nacoran
2426 posts
Aug 05, 2010
2:56 PM
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Yeah, the problem I had before was specific to Chrome. It's a known issue that you have to code for. I think it has something to do with moving over to newer standards... oh well. It really is a catchy tune.
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Nate
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harpwrench
331 posts
Aug 05, 2010
5:35 PM
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@kudzurunner
"Standing Around Crying" was 18-yr-old Junior Wells' recording debut, while Walter was out promoting his new hit "Juke".
Wolf, sounds good to me man!
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barbequebob
1087 posts
Aug 05, 2010
6:06 PM
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On "Standing Around Crying," Harpwrench IS correct and this was confirmed to me personally by two of the musicians who played on the session: my old boss Jimmy Rogers (who I`ve never known to BS anyone) and by Muddy Waters himself. The dead giveaway is JW`s vibrato, which was always much slower than LW`s.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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groyster1
303 posts
Aug 07, 2010
11:25 AM
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always thought that was little walters playing on standing around crying also but maybe muddy wanted Jr. to try and duplicate little walters style because he was so successful when LW was his harp player
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barbequebob
1093 posts
Aug 07, 2010
1:25 PM
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Around that time, they were much closer stylistically, and in interviews on the now long defunct UK blues fan magazine "Blues Unlimited," in seperate interviews, both Billy Boy Arnold and James Cotton made this same observation and both said at that time in Chicago if you didn't sound like either LW or JW, you weren't considered a real harp player.
Wolf, that's some pretty nice playing there, and I don't give out compliments easily. Too many people take the sledge hammer approach to everything and what you did fits exactly right with what's going on and worked well with the vocalist.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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AirMojo
5 posts
Aug 07, 2010
2:00 PM
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Wolf... I love "pretty harp playing" ! Your playing was great !
Reminds me of one of my favorite "pretty harp players", Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson. I have a recording of Jelly Roll playing "Drowning in My Own Tears" that I fell in love with many years ago.
I've always strived for "pretty playing"... the music just wants to stay in your head longer, and has to come out... pretty !
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Tin Lizzie
128 posts
Aug 07, 2010
7:03 PM
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I like that a lot.
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Tin Lizzie
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wolfkristiansen
40 posts
Aug 08, 2010
2:31 AM
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Thank you all, for listening.
Kyzer Sosa, you are right, I will play till I die, though I have given up on making it a career. For that, you need harp skills, but you also need pipes (vocal chords) and songwriting ability, none of which I have.
You are right, too, that I know I am a master of my own domain, such as that might be. I know I can play, in my own particular fashion, the "for real" blues.
I'm repeating old posts, but here it is again-- I played with John Lee Hooker and Albert Collins back in the day (no kids, no mortgage). I also warmed up for James Cotton, Sonny Terry & Brownie McGhee, Bo Diddley, Buddy Miles. All this is to say I love blues, and I particularly love black blues.
Joe L, thanks for listening to the clip. I liked your YouTube video with Steve Freund.
KinggoBad, I warmed up for James Cotton five times. Maybe I got the chord, and the sweetness, from him; not sure.
Todd Greene, thanks for hearing what I have to offer, and thanks for the encouragement. I'm glad you could hear the "sweet" in my playing.
Kudzurunner (I shall call you Adam after I've been in this forum for a year) thank you for honoring the idea of playing sweetly. Thank you too for hearing the slightly "out of the box" approach I took to playing the song I posted. I never thought of it as being particularly adventuresome, rather I thought my harp fit the song I was playing in. You are right, I was playing for the song, not trying to replicate an old solo. I agree with you that a little bit of instrumental prowess, tastefully presented, can add rather than subtract from a song, when done by those who know that the singer is ultimately the star.
For ten years, off and on, I have had the good fortune to be playing with a soulful singer; the one in the clip. She sings blues, country, jazz and pop. It came down to "Sink or swim" if I were to keep playing with her and her multi-styles. I chose to swim, (i.e learn to play outside the blues idiom) and have benefitted.
Sandy88, I listened to Paul Butterfield's "Done a Lot of Wrong Things" after you mentioned it, and you are right, it's pretty. It's also got a country feel to it. The singer I'm playing with does quite a few country songs and, as I said, it's influenced my harp playing.
Walter Tore, I'm glad I held your interest the whole solo. That meant a lot to me. I've listened to a lot of your stuff, and can say that you, too, hold my interest. Love hearing your stories about your experiences with some of the old blues greats, like Louisiana Red.
Tuckster, glad you're with me in saying that the song is first, ego be second.
BigD, aka Dennis Moriarty, thanks for the vote for sweetness. I think I remember talking with you about the first note on Charlie Musselwhite's "Christo Redemptor", a bent note. This was in Buddha's Garden, long a long time ago.
Nacoran, thanks again for telling me how to post streaming sound files, and for describing my song as "it really is a catchy tune". My wish is that the tune reverberates for a long time with all of you.
TookaTooka, thanks for truly hearing, both times, what I was playing, and I hope you find a place to voice that 4/7 chord. You can email me (click my user name) if you want to talk about how to do the chord, and where it fits. (Two note chord, what a concept!)
Harpwrench, aka Joe Spiers, thanks for listening and liking. Thanks too for being friendly in the overblows thread. I, too, knew the harp in that Muddy Waters song was Junior Wells. Don't know about the rest of you, but I can HEAR a harpist's style. This had Junior written all over it.
Barbeque Bob Maglinte, thanks for the compliment. I notice you don't often comment on anyone's offerings, so I truly appreciate the words you had to say about mine. Jimmy Rogers-- beautiful, underrated bluesman, I saw him in the early 80s in Vancouver. No harp player with him but he had a second (female) singer and a great second guitarist. The second guitarist sounded like Earl Hooker. When I said that to him, during a break, he said he learned from Earl. Maybe you know who I'm talking about.
Airmojo, thank you for the kudos, and I will check out Kirk "Jelly Roll" Johnson. Haven't yet. Speaking of pretty harmonica players, one of my favorites is Curtis Butler of the Butler Twins, out of Detroit. I think both twins passed away recently.
Tin Lizzie-- I'm glad you liked it. One thing I know (from playing for a long time on stage) is that females like my playing. It doesn't have the "wow" factor, but it has feel, and the ladies feel it.
A last note about technique/equipment/sound-- this clip is a totally acoustic recording, harp-wise. I played into a very good quality microphone, about 9 inches away. No shading of the sound with my hands, though I will try that, next time I record, a la Sonny Boy Williamson II. The sound was sweetened with reverb added by the engineer; other than that, it's as if played live in a room without an amp. I'm telling everybody this to reinforce what has been said often enough in every blues harp forum-- good tone comes from good acoustic tone.
Thanks again to all for listening and commenting.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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Tin Lizzie
129 posts
Aug 08, 2010
8:19 AM
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Wolf, I think it DOES have the WOW factor. The wow factor for me is all about feeling. What other wow factor could there be?
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Tin Lizzie
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barbequebob
1096 posts
Aug 08, 2010
12:45 PM
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Wolf, half the guitarists coming out of Chicago is heavily influenced by Earl Hooker in some way, so that can be a bit tough on that one.
The reason I don't make comments often is that I listen to music NOT the way many people tend to listen to music, and that includes quite a few reading ire even participating on this forum. I listen to music the way the vast majority of pro musicians, recording engineers, and music producers do, and that's with bigger ears, AKA listening to EVERYTHING in greater detail, wheras most people, like the average music fan or the majority of jammers tend to listen to the solos first and everything else DEAD LAST.
What does that mean?? Not just listening to the solo for the sake of the solo, but it it works with the groove and everything around it. Does it sound too self indulgent and has the usual "look at me, I can blow harp" amateur bull crap I hear too often??? Not in the least because what you did FITS the groove and doesn't fight it at all. It is a tad adventurous without being overbearing and stepping all over everything, ESPECIALLY the vocals. The average player too often wouldn't give a rat's a** about that but it's clear that you DO pay attention to that and make sure that the central focus is THE VOCALIST, which is FAR more important than just doing something just to pat one's ego on the back.
Like most pros from any genre that I've known, I tend to be brutally honest and some people may take that as being a jerk, negative and a trillion other things but most of them really have very poor listening skills and when someone plays their CD for me to comment on, I usually prepare them for that and too often I've guessed right on the money that in a studio session they did that took a month, I can easily figure out just how much time they spent on the solo and how much on the rhythm tracks and the groove and vocals and a lot of them in that time period sounds like 3-1/2 weeks on the solos and the rest of the time on everything else and that's something I don't want to be right about, but when I hear it, it's usually a pretty crappy recording that's very unmusical.
On what you played, even shaping the sound with your hands more would be a plus, BUT done very subtly or it could be a bit too much and wind up fighting both the groove and even worse, the vocals.
The average player would've butchered that tune pretty quickly but what you did shows adventure but with restraint and for that, I applaud you.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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