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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Blues as a life's philosophy & community?
Blues as a life's philosophy & community?
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apskarp
213 posts
Jun 22, 2010
10:50 PM
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There were some pretty good posts in the previous thread I started (Blues as a r*******?). Unfortunately there seem to have been some heated discussions on r**, which caused Adam to lock that thread. Now, I didn't know about that because I don't read all the threads in the forum. Anyway, I wanted to continue the discussion, which really wasn't about r**, but rather about how deep impact the Blues has on people's life.
So, to readjust the question:
I know lots of people, who have some special communities they belong to, which give them comfort and support in the tough times - when faced with death, big life changes like the born of child, getting married etc. These communities can be associated to different r**'s, but that isn't by all means necessary. Some people are involved with some yoga communities, different kinds of 12 step groups, old meditation traditions, network marketing communities, etc - you name it.
Many of these communities provide practical life philosophies on top of the support from the community. How this works is that the group normalizes some viewpoints to the world which they then stick to in tough times.
I have seen that the Blues does this too. The music is something very universal and it provides sort of ceremonies in the meaningful life events. There are many blues songs about death, divorce and life in the marriage, as well as birth for example. Now that's pretty trivial thing to have in the music, but I have seen that the Blues also builds pretty strong communities around it. I don't know if it is because the roots of blues has been in gospel music, and ancient African jungle hoodoo traditions. Or if it just because the Blues has such a strong feelings discussed in the songs and lyrics.
In either case, I would like to hear your thought about this. I don't think that the Blues is just a business concept created by the musicians and record companies. I believe there are something much deeper involved woith this music..
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Hobostubs Ashlock
801 posts
Jun 22, 2010
11:24 PM
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My closest friend died 2 months ago and I missed his funeral,All i could do was turn on the blues and listen,I didnt feel like playing,just listened.I hear blues music all the time .But sometimes it,well what can I say,You know what I mean:-)
Last Edited by on Jun 22, 2010 11:25 PM
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Kyzer Sosa
667 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:11 AM
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This reaks... there is an unmistakable intertwining of some things on this earth, and to not be able to talk openly/maturely about it on an internet forum, regardless of it's 'strictly musical' intentions, especially when it is entirely relevant to topics of discussion of this forum, is censorship at it's worst.
Adam, I'll abide by the creed, despite it's amendments. I have since my first post, but now we're all biting our tongues, asterisk'ing words (as if we dont know their meaning), and treading our fingers lightly across our keyboards that now seem laden with needles and pins.
I dont even remember what it was that sparked all this stuff...one person tosses their hands in the air and sends a spunky email to the Dr. only to bow out because theyre own pillars are shaken? (sigh) How can this forum be seen as anything different than a premium cable movie channel? If you dont want your kids to see soft porn, dont order it. The forum is locked due to spam. lurkers know what theyre getting into long before they get their login/password, and according to Adam, new folks are coming in by the bushel...there's more than one moderator here, just delete the offensive posts/posters, and let the men and women who can handle it, convey a clear message or belief.
Maybe it just wouldnt work that way. I dont know...
I have a great deal of interest in THIS topic, and would like engage myself in an adult, mature, thoughtful conversation about it, but frankly, my e-hands are tied...
sorry apskarp
edit: a chat room, would greatly add to the appeal of those who wish to pursue such topics...
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
Last Edited by on Jun 23, 2010 12:20 AM
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MP
529 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:25 AM
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apskarp,
this is a job for waltertore.
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Hobostubs Ashlock
802 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:29 AM
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the forum does seem like a time bomb the last few months click click click
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nacoran
2250 posts
Jun 23, 2010
9:34 AM
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Kyzer, the forum has a chat on Thursdays, 8-12 PM EST on Skype. It's a little easier to talk about stuff like this in a smaller group, instead of somewhere where it gets left up and people keep at it until it blows up. As for the issue of censorship, you are always welcome to decide amongst yourselves to have a conversation off the forum. It wouldn't be hard to use Skype or even just instant messenger for that sort of purpose.
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Nate
Facebook
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nacoran
2251 posts
Jun 23, 2010
9:50 AM
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As to the original post, it makes me think of the New Orleans funeral processions. They play somber music on the way there, but something upbeat on the way back. There are certainly certain pieces of music, blues or not, that get associated with life events.
Weddings- Wedding March, Hava Nagila (for our Jewish friends), The Hokey Pokey (at receptions)
Funerals- Taps, Amazing Grace, (When the Saints Go), Marching In for those up-tempo exits), Dust in the Wind (at least on TV)
Sporting Events- Nations National Anthems, and now a lot of places play God Bless America during the 7th inning stretch.
Birthdays- Happy Birthday, When I'm 64
Holidays- Christmas Songs, Dreidel Song, Here Comes Peter Cotton Tail, National Anthems, Taps
Graduations- Usually something by Greenday :)
Reunions-
Parades- 76 Trombones
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Nate
Facebook
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Jim Rumbaugh
243 posts
Jun 23, 2010
9:51 AM
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Blues as a philosophy or comunity.... hmmm, .. let me see.
Guys that drink, have bad luck, women leave them.....
I don't think I want that as a philosophy or a community.
It may be a reflection of some people's lives, but it sounds like poor role model. I have found my life to be better the further I am away from that kind of stuff.
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intermediate level (+) player per the Adam Gussow Scale, Started playing 2001
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Joe_L
406 posts
Jun 23, 2010
10:07 AM
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If you want to philosophize about "Blues as a ...", you should consider reading up on the topic. A lot has been written in this space over the past several decades.
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bluemoose
228 posts
Jun 23, 2010
10:23 AM
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This is a tricky one.
I had a life altering bicycle accident 12 years ago. Was re-hab'ing for almost 4 years. The blues and the blues harp pulled me through it. Could have turned really bad.
Was it a philosophy or community? Not really. More of a crutch to lean on at first but it did lead me into a sort of community of local players and enthusiasts.
Are they all upright solid citizens? Not all by a long shot, some are as socially beatup as I was physically. However, many are as real human beings as you'll find and that's getting to be a rare commodity these days.
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wolfkristiansen
7 posts
Jun 23, 2010
11:33 AM
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From Apskarp: "I don't think that the Blues is just a business concept created by the musicians and record companies. I believe there are something much deeper involved with this music".
I agree with that statement. The blues can be so deep as to take on a spiritual aspect.
We humans have physical, emotional, intellectual and spiritual sides to our lives. Blues, real blues, though superficially about the emotional aspect of life (e.g. love), the physical aspect (e.g. sex), and a thousand other earthly concerns, is nevertheless a deep spiritual music.
Why do I say this? Because of the depth of feeling summoned and conveyed in every real blues song, as opposed to the average pop song. I acknowledge blues can be, and has been, used in a pop context. The "spiritual blues" aspect I'm talking about can be heard through its deepest practitioners-- Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, etc. The kind of blues Robert Palmer talks about in his 1982 book, "Deep Blues".
From a listener's point of view: The first time I heard Howling Wolf, on a little portable record player during college, the hair stood up on the back of my neck. His music sounded otherworldly. What was that, if not a deep spiritual experience?
Years ago, When my first wife ran off with another man, I had the blues, in the classic sense. During that first month as a single father, I listened to some of my old blues records with new ears. Lyrics I had listened to superficially for years suddenly took on new meaning. They spoke to me; nailed my feelings as they were at the time. In the depths of my grief, I found comfort in the depth of the blues. (Percy Mayfield, thank you for your beautiful lyrics!) It all ended well-- wife number two turned out to be the one I shoulda married the first go round; we're still going strong after almost two decades.
From a musician's point of view: I'm a harp player. I love playing on stage with a real blues band. I live for those rare moments where we collectively hit "the zone". We can do no wrong when we're in that zone. Musically. We're in a perfect rhythmic groove; every note or chord is the right one, perfectly placed. We are on a natural high. The music seems to be coming from somewhere "out there". What is that, if not a spiritual experience? It's better than sex; don't tell our wives/husbands.
So, yeah, playing blues, listening to blues, can be close to a deep spiritual experience for me. There's other times where it's nothing more than danceable party music. A fast boogie blues or a funky blues gets me dancing every time. It's all good.
Harmonica content-- Think about some harmonica solo, or accompaniment, that was so perfect, or so beautiful, that it gave you goosebumps or made the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Hope you've had the pleasure. If you've experienced it, you've had that deep blues experience, as far as I'm concerned. Papa Lightfoot did it for me, but that's another story.
"Modern" content-- this deep music is capable of being made or appreciated at any time. It doesn't depend on any particular style of playing. To my mind, it's something we should strive for as often as possible.
Cheers,
wolf kristiansen
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Kyzer Sosa
675 posts
Jun 23, 2010
11:57 AM
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Kyzer no have a da skype a
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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ridge
22 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:04 PM
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@Kyzer - Skype is free*. Even if you don't have a mic, you can still listen and type during the group call.
*Free meaning that it costs you nothing to download other than the cost to maintain your current internet connection, place of residence and electricity.
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nacoran
2256 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:05 PM
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Kyzer have a microphone and speaker can plug into computer? Kyzer can have download Skype for free. If Kyzer no have microphone can just text on Skype.
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Nate
Facebook
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nacoran
2257 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:07 PM
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Ridge, or more specifically, it's free as long as you are talking to other Skypers. It costs a little money to call regular phones, and I think using it as a cell phone app costs money.
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Nate
Facebook
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barbequebob
970 posts
Jun 23, 2010
12:41 PM
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Nate, there is a charge for Skype on a cellphone, but if you have a cellphone thru Verizon wireless, it's free and so are the Skype calls as well. I don't recall the Skype rates are thru a cellphone, but if you got Verizon Wireless, that's not too bad at all, especially for international stuff.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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apskarp
214 posts
Jun 24, 2010
12:22 AM
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Thanks Wolf!
That's exactly what I am talking about. There is clearly a spiritual side on this music. Actually I believe it is part of every music, at least the ethnic ones (about modern pop/rock I'm not so sure of). In the blues it is however, in my opinion, more visible than in many other types of music.
And while the lyrics often talk about lost love, alcohol and misery, there are other levels on those too. It's not just about having a community of "losers" finding ways to express their misery. It's actually very therapeutic thing to put those things in the songs instead of just drinking and bathing in self-pity. It can actually be really purifying experience to sing out those demons from inside instead of just keeping them there hidden.
I know that the Blues also forms communities around it. This forum is a good example of that, and we have local associations, festivals and whatever. But what I am interested of is that waht are your experiences on those communities. Are they just about music, or do you find there some aspects of deeper spirituality and philosophy too?
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MrVerylongusername
1102 posts
Jun 24, 2010
1:21 AM
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I think there's something in this point of view, but I don't think it's somehow unique to blues. I just think it's down to the way that we as humans like to form tribes. There are those who like blues and there are those who are part of a blues subculture; but you could apply all the criteria you mentioned in your opening statement to most other subcultures. For example, look at all the Emo kids. They are generally teenagers - what do teenagers need? a sense of 'individuality' and self-affirmation, and the security of being part of a group outside of their family unit. Being around others who understand you. They get that from being part of a subculture. The way they dress identifies them to others, but it is also an initiation process. You can like the music, but you are never truly accepted as one of the tribe until you wear the ceremonial dress - eyeliner, piercings and black clothes.
Same as bluesmen and hats really ;-)
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5F6H
213 posts
Jun 24, 2010
1:37 AM
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Agree with MrVLUN.
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apskarp
215 posts
Jun 24, 2010
3:01 AM
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Yes, MrV. I do think that this is a phenomenon that is really common amongst people. What I am interested of is that how do you perceive this thing happening in the blues community? What are the initiation ceremonies, norms that we should abide to, what things are tabu in the blues circles, etc. So if people agree that Blues has the identity of it's own as a spiritual tradition, what are the consequences?
Or do you disagree? Why?
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The Gloth
411 posts
Jun 24, 2010
3:16 AM
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I agree too ; I think the sense of community in music has nothing to do with the spirituals deepness of that music. I used to be a metalhead in the 80 and 90, there was a strong feeling of community in the scene but nothing spiritual in that, only a shared passion for the music, the live shows and drinking beers.
For the deep spiritual side in the blues, I agree too, and I think a big part of that is because blues (at its origins) was the closest to its african origins, where music was essentially ritualistic and sacred (until this day, musicians in Africa are mostly part of a special cast of people called "griots", seen as some kind of priests/magicians/keepers of the oral tradition. The initiation to music is transmitted from father to children).
Note also that, many times, the only difference between blues and gospel is the lyrics of the song.
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http://www.buddybrent.be
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5F6H
215 posts
Jun 24, 2010
3:48 AM
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Apskarp "What are the initiation ceremonies, norms that we should abide to, what things are tabu in the blues circles, etc."
You just have to like it...even just a little bit. Lots of folks like the blues on some level, but just dip into it from time to time. I know folks who will happily attend more commercial events based around the blues, but would never go to the typical venue & see it at its grass roots level...there are theatres & arts centres that have the same clientelle, month in/month out, tonight is blues, tomorrow is a folk singer...the genre is somewhat irrelevant, just Tuesday night is "music night" at the venue in question. But, they pay for their tickets, enjoy the show & contribute to "keeping it alive".
The blues is basically a lot of different things to a lot of different people...if you play for a living, it's still something that you love & are inspired by, but that's tempered by it being something that you do at the end of a long drive/flight, to pay the rent & eat etc...or something that you do after a long drive/flight after doing a full working day at your real job!
To some folks it can be something to make a buck off, get punters through the door, CD sales etc...though perhaps more in the old days, compared to now. Most venues, independent studios & labels are into blues primarily because they love it, rather than as a means to get rich.
For others it's just good music to dance/flirt with the opposite sex/get drunk to.
To some it's a tradition & a history, to others it's a springboard to new sounds...with a lot of lattitude in between.
So, enjoy these blues as you please...
There's very little, in the broader context of human life, that was/is specific to "blues" - beliefs & socio-economic backgrounds would have been common to other types of music (jazz, gospel, soul) springing from the same communities.
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2010 3:49 AM
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apskarp
216 posts
Jun 24, 2010
5:17 AM
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MrV, for me the spirituality of the blues is a subjective observation. But I have also seen that it is an experience that many others share too. One good example would be the Martin Scorcese's 7 DVD box of blues that looks at the phenomenon in different angles.
I know that I use the Blues as a purifying, even a bit therapeutical form of refresh. I write the Blues songs always from some viewpoint that involves some deep aspects of humanity - in a level that you can call spiritual even. And I also incorporate some elements of other musical traditions that have spirituality incorporated.
Other side of the coin is that sometimes the Blues becomes a weight for me - schedules of gigs and trainings overlap with my other life, a get bored to the music and still need to practice it, etc. Then it is strictly about the music, not the spiritual side of it. Whenever the spirituality is involved there's no weight but instead relief involved with it. Sometimes I search it from the other ethnical musical genres too.
I used to be a "metal head" also when I was younger. The community was indeed very strong there, but it really didn't have any spirituality involved. (Well, at some point black metal was a big underground wave here and it had some pseudo-spirituality in it too.)
The main point for me with the blues is that it really seems to have not the musical community in it, biut it seems to have some underlying spiritual foundations too. I'm just not clear with that yet, what is it? Is it just the roots of the gospel etc, or does it come from the African culture as suggested? I'd like to believe that it is actually the spirituality that has come from Africa and maintained in some "subconscious" form in the music..
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5F6H
216 posts
Jun 24, 2010
5:38 AM
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Apskarp "I'd like to believe that it is actually the spirituality that has come from Africa and maintained in some "subconscious" form in the music.." Believe whatever makes you feel happy, but what spirituality would there be in blues, that wouldn't exist in other African American derived music? Blues didn't come from Africa, it's an American music (barely 100yrs old), it's roots are in parts of the African American community, whose roots in turn are in Africa...there's a difference.
Why wouldn't any such "spirituality" also exist in soul, reggae, calypso, jazz & rap? Ask yourself - Is this "spirituality" specifically tangible in blues more than other music, or is it largely just your perception that this is so?
I think basically you have to widen your sphere of interest to include the greater aspects of African American (& Caribbean) history & culture, rather than focussing on the blues, to begin to understand an answer to that particular question.
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waltertore
685 posts
Jun 24, 2010
10:23 AM
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Music, when it moves you is healing. This is true of any music. People who love blues try to push this as one of the blues main attributes. I agree if it moves you. Business people have worked since day one to control this and profit by it, which usually results in the musicians becoming their puppets. I stay to the spiritual side and when it moves me I play. Playing alone in my basement, on a stage in front of thousands, and every possible set up in between, really has no influence on my music. If I am moved to play, I play. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2010 11:26 AM
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apskarp
217 posts
Jun 24, 2010
11:02 AM
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@5F: I'm not trying to say that only blues has this "spirituality" or whatever one wants to call it inside. I can feel that in lots of different music styles - for example jazz & soul. What moves me the most currently are the european gypsy traditions: Finnish, Hungarian, Romanian Gypsy music & flamenco. They all have their roots on eastern spiritual traditions and I honestly believe that there is something you can't put into words that is transferred with these musical traditions. I also like to listen to the natives music of e.g. america & finland. So if you think that I'm trying to put the Blues above all the other musical styles you are wrong. But because this forum is about blues & harp I'm concentrating here more towards the Blues than the other musical genres.
@walter: I honestly believe that you have found something genuine from the music. I'm just experimenting with the music and learning to play some instruments and this means that although I can feel "it" from time to time, most of the time I'm playing it is about learning to play. But I try to do that with the feeling and not the goals..
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waltertore
687 posts
Jun 24, 2010
11:30 AM
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apskarp: Since I started making noise with instruments I felt better inside. This has been my motivation for playing. Getting "better" at playing is a byproduct of the countless hours I spend with it. Getting relief from the ever blue feelings inside me is still my motivation for playing and it still makes me feel better while I am playing and when I am done just as it did when I started out making noise. So what others call music, right and wrong, what you have to learn, not learn, etc, is of no interest to me. I simply play to feel better. If someday I am cured of these blue feelings inside me, I think I would quit playing. I am without my studio going on 2 weeks. I am struggling without it. It is my place to go and record my music and feel peace. Hopefully I will have ironed out all the problems by the weekend and can get back to it. Walter
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walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year.
" life is a daring adventure or nothing at all" - helen keller
2,000 of my songs
continuous streaming - 200 most current songs
my videos
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2010 11:34 AM
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