groyster1
85 posts
Jun 01, 2010
5:48 PM
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it is my understanding that the special 20 was hohners first transition to plastic combs from wooden combs-the special 20 has marine band on the coverplate-does the special 20 use the same reeds as the marine band?I have a special 20 that has the price tag of 13.25 from corner music in nashville that still plays as bright and snappy as the day I bought it-why do people feel the wooden comb has better tone?there were a couple of people at hill country harmonica agreed with me that the special 20 is the best harp for the money-let the opinions fly!
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nacoran
1974 posts
Jun 01, 2010
7:22 PM
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I haven't tried a Marine Band. My first diatonic was a Blues Harp. It tore my lip up. I switched to plastic and never really looked back. That said, I have one custom wood comb that is really sweet. Sealing and sanding and rounded tines make a huge difference. It's a complicated argument though. I have a Golden Melody that is tough on my lips too. Looking at the lip on Special 20's and Lee Oskars it does seem that the lip might keep your mouth a little bit farther from the reed than a harp with extruding reed plates. If the front edge of the reed plate is sanded it doesn't really matter, and a non-wood comb can have extruding reed plates.
Covers seem to make a lot of difference in tone. Cover thickness makes a difference. Open or closed backs makes a difference. Side vents supposedly make a difference. (I don't have a side vented harp myself.)
For sheer hand comfort I like my Seydel Blues Favorite best. It has a full length cover like a Hohner Meisterklasse. It has extruding reed plates but they run out to the end of the harp, unlike the plates on Golden Melodies, which stop before the end, leaving pointy corners. The cover is bent so that it applies pressure to the middle of the harp. The screws bring the ends down, making it very airtight. The only complaint I have is that the supports in the back are hard to line up with the back edge of the harp when you are putting it back together. I've marred them up a little bending them back into place. It came with an aluminum composite comb. I've also got one of Dave Payne's custom combs for it. They are the two most comfortable combs I own. I can't hear the difference in tone.
The shape of a plastic comb is also a little different than a traditional comb internally (in addition to the lip cover).
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Nate
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Kyzer Sosa
614 posts
Jun 01, 2010
8:38 PM
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golden melody's solve that problem, the comb resembles the style of a MB (recessed comb) but is made of plastic...
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nacoran
1977 posts
Jun 01, 2010
9:15 PM
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Kyzer, my GM's reed plate sticks through the front, but it doesn't run the whole length of the harp. It stops maybe a half an inch from the end, which leaves the corners of the reed plates in the playing zone. I love the shape of the back of the harp, but the reed plate rips my lips up. My guess is that it's so they don't have to round the reed plate off, but in my opinion, it's a design flaw.
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Nate
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Kyzer Sosa
616 posts
Jun 01, 2010
10:16 PM
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i sat mine on a high speed sanding belt, high grit, for like 2 seconds and it knocked the edge right off of it. i only did it to one tho, i learned to deal with it on the others. I have three. an A, C, and G. and the G is the best sounding G ive ever played...( three others sp20 blues harp and bushman DF)
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Kyzer's Artwork
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jim
80 posts
Jun 02, 2010
4:12 AM
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The MBs vs. the sp20 is an interesting topic.
Inside, they are all the same (they share the same reeds)
While still there are some small differences:
1)MBs have the blow rivets closer to the edge of the mouthpiece. That's good.
2)MBs have a leaky wooden comb that swells, built using nails (or held together using 3 screws on MB deluxe). That's very bad.
Technically, the GM reeds are the same as sp20/MB too...
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arzajac
208 posts
Jun 02, 2010
8:05 AM
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I think they have the same reed and reed plates. In fact, so do the Golden Melodies.
I have been meaning to try a Special 20 and so I just ordered one.
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Nastyolddog
821 posts
Jun 02, 2010
8:44 AM
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Yo Bro I'm SP-20 Nazi I play OOTB no customs,
they way i see it if i can't get good tone from
OOTB harps,i better go sit in the corner and practise more,
i like the SP-20 for it's harsh raw tone,
i just bought a MB wood come to see what i was missing
Tone wise nothing,
i TB so comfort the MB wood come rips my tongue to shreds the front reed plates near cut my lips,
they leak air yes but i got used to it and played to suit the instrument so I'm still a SP-20 NAZI:)
TB NAZI OOTB OR DIE!!!!
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nacoran
1978 posts
Jun 02, 2010
9:13 AM
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I think the GM's have the same reeds, but they are tuned differently. Kyzer, I just don't trust myself with my Dremel. I still think they could fix the issue by extending the plate out and rounding it off a little farther from the mouth.
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Nate
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earlounge
83 posts
Jun 02, 2010
10:12 AM
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Just my 2 cents
I wanted to get one of each type MB, SP20, & GM and decide which one I like. This method has failed, because I like aspects of each type.
The tone of the MB has a woody growl that resonates that the other two just don't have. I think the SP20 and GM have a cleaner tones, which isn't necessarily bad just different.
I started with a SP20 and I really like the feel of it. The MB definitely ripped up the corners of my mouth in the beginning, but I got used to it. I like the shape of GM's with rounded corners, but the reed plates still stick out a little.
SP20s and GMs don't swell and are easy to clean.
The MBs have nails and the wood isn't easy to TB.
The GMs chords don't sound great, but the single notes do.
So I can't decide! I like all the Hohner stuff.
I recently got a Crossover and I love it too! The woody tone is there. The bamboo is sealed and feels fine. It has much better response than all the other harps. All the bends are tight and not leaky. I think I'm going to get another Crossover and go from there.
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captainbliss
116 posts
Jun 02, 2010
10:43 AM
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@groyster1
/why do people feel the wooden comb has better tone/
Thoughts:
1. I suspect it's not just the comb and imagine the (non)vented coverplates make a big difference.
2. Better? To my ear, MBs sound brighter, bassier, punchier. SP20s sound darker, rounder, more middly. Better? Can't say. Different, certainly. I like both, but am preferring MBs at the mo'.
(An aside: the MB Delulxes I've tried felt like they lacked rasp and power (I've only played 2, so maybe that's not representative?). The Crossovers I've played (4 of 'em) are all great. Brighter than standard MBs, loud, very good indeed, a lot of fun to play.)
3. AFAIK, pretty much all the "classic" blues harmonica recordings were played on MBs. The sound of the MB is a - if not THE - reference point of how blues harmonica can / ought to sound.
4. It's hard to explain, but a wooden-combed harmonica just feels more reponsive. I know from chats I've had that at least two world-class players would agree with me.
But then again, there are world class players who favour plastic (or metal / composite / ???) combs...
xxx
Last Edited by on Jun 02, 2010 10:44 AM
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phogi
442 posts
Jun 03, 2010
3:02 AM
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I like the sp20 because it is airtight, and when tweaking all you need to do is the reeds and coverplates. Flat sanding is difficult.
But, I like the unique sound each gets. They sound entirely different to me, but this is prob due to coverplate design.
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Gray
104 posts
Jun 03, 2010
3:36 AM
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I use my Sp20 when I play fast and heavey and my MB for country,funk and delta style playing.Adam has a punch in the mid range when he plays.I dont think you can get that from a SP20.Love'm all but.
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Ev630
531 posts
Jun 03, 2010
3:40 AM
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Marine Bands sound more masculine, while SP20s sound more effeminate. Hope this helps.
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Gray
106 posts
Jun 03, 2010
3:52 AM
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There's just something about wood.
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Nastyolddog
826 posts
Jun 03, 2010
6:53 AM
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Marine Bands sound more masculine, while SP20s sound more effeminate.
Bro check it out it's like this,
the real art is Playing that lady so she groans like a man:)
Bro if putting male masculine things in your lips is your thing I'm cool with it:)
Gray might be your man he says, There's just something about wood:)
But me i like the ladys so i will keep sucking and blowing them SP-20's i can get them Bitches Groaning:)
more fun than swollowing Men:)
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sorin
171 posts
Jun 03, 2010
7:07 AM
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The middle ground between the MB sound and SP20 sound , is a Sp20 with open back and sided vents
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Ev630
532 posts
Jun 03, 2010
8:05 AM
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Nasty, I already made the joke and now you try and hijack it and reverse it. Get your own jokes.
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Nastyolddog
827 posts
Jun 03, 2010
8:14 AM
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Bro it's still your joke thats if any other person picks up on what your saying:)
i was throwing it back at you sarcarsticly, it worked:)
Last Edited by on Jun 03, 2010 8:24 AM
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Ev630
533 posts
Jun 03, 2010
8:17 AM
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No worries mate - enjoy those effeminate-sounding 20s. Har har!
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groyster1
90 posts
Jun 03, 2010
5:45 PM
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recently bought a marine band crossover in D after breaking it seems to be the easiest harp to bend-the reviews of this harp made me decide to give it a try-first wooden comb I have bought in a long time-if only the bamboo really never swells that is what I hated about the old mb and blues harps
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LeonStagg
175 posts
Jun 03, 2010
6:47 PM
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I've tried them all, as far as Hohners go, and like them all.
I always settle on SP20s. Most have played pretty well OOTB, very easy to adjust for better response.
Sorin, I dig the look of the open-backed, side- vented model you have, did you do that mod yourself?
Last Edited by on Jun 04, 2010 6:08 AM
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apskarp
174 posts
Jun 04, 2010
12:59 AM
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I favor Special 20:
1) First of all I don't want to use lots of time working with the wood comb to make it airtight, round the corners and seal it.
2) Secondly it is much easier to work with the harp when you van use screws instead of bolts - I don't want to utilize time to switch the nails to bolts either.
3) Third thing is that I have actually grown to like Turbo harp lids. Especially with the lower key harps. Here's why:
a) They are extremely easy to remove and put back if you want to adjust the gaps.
b) They are very easy to cup as they are ergonomically designed
c) The projection is good as the back is very open (although little bit plastic sound, but with lower key harps it sounds actually good to my ear)
d) They help you learn to keep the mouth open and harp way inside your mouth for big tone
e) You can keep the harp inside your pocket without any covers which makes it really easy to take it out, play few notes and put it back in.
So the Special 20 is really a good choice for the harp for many reasons. Especially if you own a pair of turbo harp lids. And you can actually order Special 20 with Turbo lids on them directly:
http://www.harmonicas-direct.com/Product/Tur3.asp
(It is actually 1 pound cheaper than the regular S20)
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sorin
172 posts
Jun 04, 2010
9:05 AM
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Leon, I modified the covers myself ,grinded down the bottom( some people prefer to just bent it inwards) , and filed down the sides.
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MP
401 posts
Jun 04, 2010
12:00 PM
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very nice clean work sorin. i really like the side vents.
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Nastyolddog
834 posts
Jun 05, 2010
2:08 AM
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Ok i fess up this is the only mod i do to my SP20s,
i use a Dremal to remove the lip than 1200 fine sand the edges smooth by Hand:)
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 9:16 PM
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jim
96 posts
Jun 05, 2010
2:16 AM
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http://www.truechromatic.com/harps.jpg
how the F* do I embed pictures in this weird forum?
Last Edited by on Jun 05, 2010 2:16 AM
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jim
97 posts
Jun 05, 2010
3:58 AM
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Thanks. Usually forums use BBcode.
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www.truechromatic.com
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hvyj
390 posts
Jun 05, 2010
6:19 AM
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Opening the backs of covers does increase volume and brightness. FWIW, I think the higher key harps (Eb and higher) can sound a little shrill with opened backs and sound a little smoother and warmer leaving the backs unopened.
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Nastyolddog
839 posts
Jun 05, 2010
7:02 AM
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Yo hvyi opening the backs of the harp i find less restriction of air flow,
the volume and brightness you speak of is controlled by me not the harp,
i guess thats where i'm missing the brightness i produce a raw hard edged tone:)
but playing open backs useing the Hands is a must for produceing many tones or colors,
open the hands wide like a loud hailer theres no need to breath harder just open the hands and the volume increases,
or closed hands formed in a round ball for muteing the sound great for High Key harps,
it gives your Harp playing a whole new dimension
i play Delta Blues and find open Backs a must for my Playing style:)
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 8:38 PM
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nacoran
2006 posts
Jun 05, 2010
10:09 AM
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I've opened the backs on a couple harps. I just bent them over with pliers. I didn't go through the effort of cutting them off. It works fine, but they look terrible because I was in a hurry.
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Nate
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apskarp
176 posts
Jun 05, 2010
10:49 PM
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If you use Special 20, you don't have to open the backs - just order Turbo harp covers for 6.99 pounds.. ;) No brightness or shrillness problems and the volume is loud.
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hvyj
396 posts
Jun 10, 2010
9:10 AM
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@Nastyoldog: This is a perfect example of how a particular player's style affects choice of equipment/instrument.
I never play "in air" when i perform and i generally don't open and close my hands for effect. I always use a cupped mic. I may vary how tight or loose the cup is, or sometimes i may open and close the cup, but I usually don't use my hands to shape tone except to vary how tight or loose my grip is as I cup the mic.
If I used my hands to shape tone like Sonny Boy (or you), I might prefer open backs on all my harps, like you do. As it is, I think the higher keys (Eb and higher)sound better (warmer and not as shrill)with unopened backs for my particular style of play.
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Nastyolddog
884 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:30 AM
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This is a perfect example of how a particular player's style affects choice of equipment/instrument.
It sure is Bro,classic example of what works for you won't work for me if we look at things realisticly
we could all be giveing one another bad advise at times i could recomend something you,
you go try it,,,,it don't work for you and ya walk around saying this guy don't know what he's talking about:)
so yes Bro it is a classic example:)
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rpoe
166 posts
Jun 10, 2010
10:51 AM
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I like my SP20's and one of my two MB's. One MB needs some work.
Has anyone tried removing the ribs/sprues in the SP20 combs as Kinya Pollard does in this article?
SP20Comb
Does it make a noticiable difference in being able to bend or overblow?
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Rob
Rob's Tube
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arzajac
239 posts
Jun 14, 2010
4:56 PM
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"Does it make a noticiable difference in being able to bend or overblow?"
I never heard of that. I have heard of getting rid of the ribs to make it easier to tune without taking off the reed plates, though.
On another note:
I just got my first Special 20 in the mail today. My first impression is that it is a great harp. It's airtight and the sound is bright. The sound is different than a MB, but not better or worse - just different.
It's very playable. I can overblow holes four and six without having touched anything. I reckon it will play nicely with just a little gapping.
So far, it looks like I will be buying more special 20s in the future...
Some have said that they can be leaky. Is that so? Is it hit-or-miss like with a MB?
Last Edited by on Jun 14, 2010 4:56 PM
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tookatooka
1442 posts
Jun 15, 2010
4:43 AM
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From a dyed in the wool suzuki user, I have slowly but surely come round to being a Special 20 user. The reason is purely down to the tuning. If only Suzuki could make a reasonably priced long slot harp with the SP20 tuning, I'd be there like a shot.
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The7thDave
120 posts
Jun 15, 2010
6:05 AM
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Nacoran: I found a pair of nylon-jawed pliers at a local crafts store. Worked great for opening up the backs of my Special 20s. Quick, no scratching, no unwanted deformation of the cover plates.
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* BTMFH *
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--Dave
Last Edited by on Jun 15, 2010 6:06 AM
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