MP
252 posts
May 12, 2010
12:47 PM
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@JDH,
i have absolutely no interest in a debate on a topic i'm deficient on. i can tell by your posts you know more than i do. i'm just curious as to the whys of choices.
BTW-those VIBRO CHAMPS i aquired were before the vintage market went nuts. they were the'hey you want this little piece of junk? type amps. they have almost no bottom and feed back really easily. i'd just find the sweet spot and adjust the PA to compensate for what it lacked.
it took me some years to warm-up to the idea of 4x10s. now i really really like them.
it seems the older i get the more apt i am to revise my opinions.
BUT...wouldn't it be great if someone would come up with a high wattage, one 12", light weight combo that could perform excelently under most live conditions- even if the soundman is lacking? it might happen. howard levy ripped a new one in his explorations.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 12:50 PM
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MP
253 posts
May 12, 2010
1:07 PM
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@Ev630,
JEEZ!! MY PSYCHIC SUPER POWERS HAVE BEEN WEAKEND CONSIDERABLY! too much dickin' 'round with my harps musta dunit.
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JDH
54 posts
May 12, 2010
1:42 PM
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@ MP
There are many here more knowledgeable than me, Mark/ 5F6H and Stephen/ htownfess, are both much better informed, lots smarter, and have a greater technical understanding. I'm more the old guy that learned what he learned by trial and error. I'm just an opinionated onery old bastard with a great willingness to share! oh, and a lot of gear. JD
BTW, I wouldn't pay EV630 any mind, he's just giddy 'cause he's got a new toy comin' on the airplane.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 1:43 PM
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Rick Davis
393 posts
May 12, 2010
2:29 PM
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EV630-
MP asked for a "high wattage, one 12", light weight combo" and you replied that the Clark Beaufort fills that bill.
Not really. At 18 watts I wouldn't call the Beaufort "high wattage." Harp amps with two 6V6 power tubes like the Beaufort generally need PA support, something MP was evidently looking to avoid.
Power tubes from the 6L6 / 5881 / KT66 family provide a lot more punch, and they are used in harp amps you might think of as "high wattage" such as the Sonny Jr and in your own Clark Piedmont.
The new Mission Chicago amp delivers 32 watts in Fixed Bias mode through two 6L6 tubes and a GZ34 rectifier. The speaker efficiency is 102db. The amp is loud enough to handle a noisy blues jam without PA support. (I use it at the Sunday blues jam I host at Ziggies Saloon in Denver.) It costs $999.
As for your Beaufort, at over $2200 you're paying a heck of a premium for the name. I know you said that you bought a lightly used Beaufort for much less, but that is a red flag. It sounds like the resale value might be weak.
What speaker is in your Beaufort? Will you be posting videos soon? What tweaks do you plan to do to the amp?
www.missionharpamps.com
---------
-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 2:31 PM
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Bb
199 posts
May 12, 2010
2:33 PM
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My rig is so loud it kills migratory birds and small children.
-Bob
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toddlgreene
1325 posts
May 12, 2010
2:36 PM
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Mine's loud enough to get a great sound and ample signal to a microphone to run thru the p.a. I'm cool with that. This is 2010, not 1950, where all I would have is my amp to be heard.
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Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 5:28 AM
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MP
256 posts
May 12, 2010
3:19 PM
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@JDH,
very true re- htownfess.
he told me how to tune efficiently, and with more accuracy, amongst other super useful info.
i think 5F6 is the bassman circuit?
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JDH
56 posts
May 12, 2010
3:44 PM
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@Rick, How many Clark amps have you played through?
I can only compare my Clark Piedmont, because I've not played through any other Clark amps. I have over the years played through many bassman knock offs and a few 58 and 59 bassman amps. Including real Fender tweeds, Kendrick, Victoria, Holland, THD, weber kits, mojo kits, scratch built premium custom builts, Fender RI's and some I'm not sure where they came from. The Clark is a great sounding amp that holds it's own with any of these amps and is much richer sounding than the majority. The other thing worth mentioning is that when I asked Skip Simmon's what he thought of Clark amps (Skip BTW is not too keen on anything new) he said well you know I've heard them and they sound great, but I've never seen one inside because they don't break.
I wish you guy's all the luck in the world with your amp, Bruce seems like a really straight up guy, but always going after the competition the way you do just makes you look like a real ass. It makes me feel bad for Bruce, I think he deserves better.
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 4:08 PM
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7LimitJI
133 posts
May 12, 2010
4:04 PM
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@Rick
"All the anecdotal examples given so far are flawed because they disregard the other, more important element of perceived loudness in any amp: speaker efficiency."
In a word bull !
You have no idea what you are talking about. All you've done is quote some formula you found on the net to try and prove 1 x 12" is the be all and end all of speakers.
When I tried 2, 3 an 4 tens. They were all the same type of speaker with the same efficiency.
Eminence Legends.
When I tried various combinations of eights, they were all the same type of speaker too, with the same efficiency.
"I've played many Bassman style amps, some of which fed back like crazy at 2.5, and others that fed back at 5."
Comparing the volume setting, of different amps, even of the same type is meaningless too.
What pre-amp tubes are fitted greatly affects the volume setting.
What value of volume pot affects the setting.
What the bias is set too, etc, etc
I could go on and on.
"but some of the lore that floats around harp forums is just silly"
You are spouting lots of it on this topic.
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Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
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Blown Out Reed
135 posts
May 12, 2010
4:13 PM
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My Amp Goes Up To 11
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 "
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 4:56 PM
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congaron
905 posts
May 12, 2010
7:07 PM
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While doubling the number of identical speakers gives a 3db increase in efficiency, the combined SPL is often even higher due to acoustic coupling in the lower frequencies. My twin 12 cabinet is 5-7 DB louder than one of those speakers alone (on the meter.)
The way the human ear works, and with the variations in human ears and opinions...everybody has one...it's tough to quantify any of this, especially when "tone" enters the arena.
I played an out-of town jam last night and received many kudos for tone and volume from my rig...a modeling pedal into a DI box and my wireless mic setup.
It was the Lake of the Ozarks Blues Society Monthly jam...my first. VERY jam-packed event. I was a little surprised. My point is, these folks were very serious about the blues and they liked my non-amp rig.
I agree with whoever it was...just get one you like the sound of.
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kudzurunner
1440 posts
May 12, 2010
7:18 PM
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Although I generally discourage personal attacks, smears, impugning of intelligence, etc., on this forum, I'm strongly tempted to suspend all the rules JUST FOR THE DURATION OF THIS THREAD and let you guys go at it.
I honestly had no idea that discussions about harmonica amp speaker efficiencies could actually lead to insults. But I've just been surfing my other favorite website, www.letsrun.com, and people there are no more or less nasty about how fast Chris Solinsky ran his final 100 (or 90) in last weekend's AR 10,000.
Have at it, gentlemen. The Marquess of Queensbury is out of town.
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9000
7 posts
May 12, 2010
7:20 PM
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I'm very interested in this whole volume issue because bands tend to be very LOUD in my area. I've got a few amps to choose from but I tend to play amps with multiple speakers in order to be heard. I checked the Mission AMps website and only found one video: a young man playing through the new amp with a very, very quiet backing band. Is there a video showing off the amp's volume with the efficient speakers...or are we just talkin' here?
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Kyzer Sosa
517 posts
May 12, 2010
7:27 PM
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hey Ev its not about the amp, its about the tone and breath control. worry less about the amp and more about your tone... (snicker snicker)
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Kyzer's Travels
Kyzer's Artwork
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MP
261 posts
May 12, 2010
8:01 PM
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the first time i saw the t-birds(double bill with SRV)kim wilson was playing two 1x12 amps. mesa boogies. don't know if they were MARK-1s or 2s or 3s. he sounded quite a lot like kim wilson. he only used one marine band in the key of A for the whole show.
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Rick Davis
394 posts
May 12, 2010
9:13 PM
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LOL! JDH, how am I "going after the competion?" Please give examples. You are funny! Contrasting two products is fair game, my friend. Particulalry so if the other amp makes lofty claims or pretentions.
How many Clark Amps have I played? Two! They were both nice amps but very expensive. Pointing that out is hardly "going after" them. $2250 for a 5E3 copy is indeed VERY expensive.
Adam, I haven't insulted anybody or impugned anyone's intelligence. It is comical that people get so worked up when their assumptions are challenged.
EV, getting back to your $2250 Beaufort 5E3 clone amp. It is a cathode biased 2x6V6 amp, a design that typically yields about 12 watts. How does Clark get it to 18 watts?
Here is a photo of the circuit. Please point to the component that distinguishes it from the original 12-watt 5E3 and boosts it to 18 watts. You can get there with fixed bias, but cathode biased??? Hmmm. With a rectifier swap and a switch to 6L6 tubes you might get there, but on Clark's website he describes the amp this way: "Tube compliment is one NOS 5Y3GT, two 6V6 Tung Sol (RI), one 12AX7 Mullard (RI) and one NOS 12AY7." That sounds like a 12-watt amp, just like the the original 5E3 Deluxe it copies.
The Clark Beaufort is certainly a fine amp, and a faithful copy of the old Tweed Deluxe. But I think there are better choices for blues harp that cost more than a thousand dollars less. $2250 for a 12-watt amp with a single tone control seems a bit pricey, to say the least. You could by a 100-watt 6x10 HarpKing amp for less than that!
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Rick Davis
395 posts
May 12, 2010
9:19 PM
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9000- Go to www.missionamps.com, to the Videos tab. There are several videos with different dynamics. Ronnie Shellist and Al Chesis both play the amp in loud blues jam settings. The amp was not mic'ed or lined out to the PA in any of vids.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Greg Heumann
450 posts
May 12, 2010
9:25 PM
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How Big Is Your Salami?
You see it all the time when this topic comes up: The chart showing the average penis size - it shows that a 15-inch schwanz is 1.5 times larger than a 12-inch pecker, which is 1.5 times larger than a 10-inch dick, which is 1.5 times larger than an 8-inch big lebowski. So, will you deliver 1.5 times more satisfaction to your woman with the bigger hose? In a word, NO.
Total flesh flute length has almost nothing to do with your action. That chart is meaningless, but it certainly helps perpetuate a common joystick myth.
Let’s take for example a typical 8-inch joint. What is its girth? A Ha! You can't compare apples to apples unless you take girth into account. So, is the 10-inch Meat Missile with a 2" circumference nearly 3 times bigger than the 8" Little Buddy with a 2.5" circumference? No, not even close.
Remember, it takes ten violins to sound twice as loud as one violin. That is an immutable law of psycho-acoustics and the nature of the human ear. But I digress.
With the 12" Morning Muscle you have 2 balls sharing the output of a 45 cubic centimeter Passion Pump. Each ball is “seeing” exactly half of the potential output. Adding a third and fourth gonad that carries the same love juice does not double the perceived pleasure, but makes the moment of ecstasy seem only slightly greater.
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseum.
Have I made my point?
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by on May 12, 2010 9:45 PM
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RunsWithScissors
20 posts
May 12, 2010
9:38 PM
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Greg,
Now you've done it!!! You brought up
the Dude! I'm ready to go to the
carpet over that one
8-)
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In every real man a child is hidden that wants to play.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Rick Davis
396 posts
May 12, 2010
9:49 PM
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congaron-
Yes, we agree: I wrote this: "Adding a second sound source (another 10-inch speaker) that carries the same signal does not double the perceived loudness, but makes the sound seem only slightly greater." Your anecdotal stories seem to bear this out.
Acoustic Coupling??? To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Ev630
419 posts
May 12, 2010
9:49 PM
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Kyzer - why you, I oughta! Hulk crush puny humans!!!!!
Hey Rick - regards all of your technical questions, I'd be willing to answer them except that I was making a JOKE. I don't think the Clark is the ultimate 12" custom harp amp for you and your clientele.
As to the price issues and the mods... I paid 1800, delivered from a gentlemen (a real gentlemen I have to say) who is a professor at one of the most famous US colleges. Who knows why he onsold it? Maybe he lives in a place where that's too loud an amp for the neighbours. All I know, amigo, is that Clark makes the best repro amps in existence - and I have played a shitload of them. I spent many hours in a store playing almost every Victoria in the range - and they were GREAT for harp. Tweed Twin, Brownface/BF Hybrid bandmaster configs, Deluxes - everything. Big, fat, juicy harp tone that was eminently giggable in the view of this gin joint road dawg.
But my Clarks have been an eye opening experience. Amps that sound like prize Fender amps out of the box? The rumours are true!
As for the price? A few hundred more than a Collins and worth every cent.
As for the mods, it's transiting Clark to get a grid leak bias in one channel for crystal mics. A recommendation from JDH. Clark is also rewiring it into class A - the "LTD mod" on his web site. So I can pull a tube to halve the output.
As for how Clark gets x watts out of y components? I don't know or care. This amp is for me to play at home and at small gigs. I don't care about the specs. All I care about is TONE, amigo. And I happen to believe I'm the best judge of that.
cheers all,
EV
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Rick Davis
397 posts
May 12, 2010
10:03 PM
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Greg: "Have I made my point?"
Yes, clearly. You are desperate to change the subject, even if it means reducing yourself to the level of a 12-year old.
I prefer to stick to the issue: You claimed that VOLUME = WATTS x SPEAKER AREA. I proved that was wrong. Do you have anything to contribute to the debate besides penis references?
Wow... very bad form, Greg.
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Rick Davis
398 posts
May 12, 2010
10:14 PM
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I think we've established two facts here:
1- Speaker area has almost nothing to do with amp perceived loudness. That is the main point of my OP.
2- Some people on this forum lose their composure (and their dignity) when challenged. That is very disappointing, actually...
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-Rick Davis
Blues Harp Amps Blog
Roadhouse Joe Blues Band
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Ev630
420 posts
May 13, 2010
12:02 AM
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You gotta admit that Salami post was pretty funny. On par with 'Fesse's post about chamois in ziploc bags over at the Weber forums.
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Nastyolddog
704 posts
May 13, 2010
2:01 AM
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Yeh i got it worked out now thanks Greg:)
it's not the length of the dick that does the trick
it's the throb of the nob that does the Job:)
i always thought that was a funny name for an amp big red nob:)but now i know,
thanks mate going to get me a red nob now????
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5F6H
128 posts
May 13, 2010
2:10 AM
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@ Rick : "I think we've established two facts here:
1- Speaker area has almost nothing to do with amp perceived loudness. That is the main point of my OP."
2- Some people on this forum lose their composure (and their dignity) when challenged. That is very disappointing, actually..."
Facts are facts - whether we feel that we have "established" them, or not, is irrelevant to them being facts. This is not a personal attack on you Rick.
1- Speaker area, as a concept on it's own, is not directly relevant to amp loudness. However, as I stated in my previous post, doubling the number of speakers (assuming a feedback friendly speaker to start with) increases efficiency by 3dB. Your assumption that multiple arrays are less efficient because they divide up the wattage is incorrect...as the rated load decreases in ohms, current delivered to the speakers increases & harp amps like lots of current to drive a speaker, over voltage (whereas power tubes like voltage over current for max power). E.G a 4x10" @ 2ohms & 50W delivers 5A of current. A 1x12 @ 32W (rated for the Chicago?) delivers 2A. The 12" will feedback before 4X10, even if at the same rated load (series-parallel wiring at 8ohms).
4x10" do push a bigger wave of air. Efficiency of a speaker & cone excursion will depend on the design & SPL of the particular speaker used, a mix of hi efficiency speakers & a couple of lower efficiency speakers can be a good mix (I like 2xFanes in the bottom plus 2 of another type for character in the top). Cone excursion can be limited by the speaker design, rather than cone diameter specifically...you don't need, or want, more power than it takes to smash the voice coil assembly against the back plate (possible on a high power design with limited travel speakers).
You would do well to listen to the practical experience that myself & guys like 7LimitJI have in this area.
Bassmans are not really voiced for bass, just one large cathode bypass cap at V1, which is only twice the effective size of some caps fitted to brown tolex amps, and smaller than the cap on say a Plexi Marshall. Same as on the 5F8A twin, which was not marketed as a bass amp (though it is probably better for that job). The 4x10" speaker array was the main innovation making the amp more suitable for bass, stopping the original 1x15" design from flapping out on low E...plus finding single 15" that would take bass frequencies in those days, without blowing under warranty, can't have been easy. The 5F6A (or the various 5F6As actually built) was an evolution of an "amplifier" circuit designed by Western Electric AT&T & licenced to Leo Fender, there's no evidence to suggest the circuit is anything other than a general purpose "amplifier" circuit. Indeed, Fender expected you to plug vocal mics, guitars & bass into the same amp, Marshall "PA" amps of the mid 60's were the same circuit.
2 - Indeed, "some" do...are you excluding yourself from this group? I can assure you that I have no agenda, no axe to grind, no political motive, I am not trying to sell anyone anything, nor prevent them from making a potential purchase - whether I have written anything that would seem to support a particular standpoint, or contradict it, it is purely based on my practical findings over many years of exhaustive, critical testing (I could have a had "a life" & good relations with my neighbours instead....but my obsessive, tinkerer's nature won over).
I wish Bruce well with the Chicago, the more choice for harp players, at reasonable prices the better. However, comparisons to a bassman particularly are not that useful...you can still easily buy a RI, used for $6-700, do some retubing & a couple of circuit tweaks and still have a fair wedge left over. Decisions on what you finally buy should be based primarily on how you sound through the amp, whether it is loud enough for your typical application, weight/portability (I still feel like a 20yr old...when my aching back lets me anyway). Oh yes....and price...but if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way...sell a kidney, a retina, your body for pharmaceutical research...
...on that basis EV630 must be surviving on a third of his liver, half a kidney, one eye...but damn, the parties round his place must be wild! :-)
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 2:28 AM
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5F6H
129 posts
May 13, 2010
2:41 AM
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"Here is a photo of the circuit. Please point to the component that distinguishes it from the original 12-watt 5E3 and boosts it to 18 watts. You can get there with fixed bias, but cathode biased??? Hmmm." Wall AC Voltages have risen some since the 5E3 was designed, 5E3 quoted wattage by Fender pertains to clean W RMS (few folk play a 5E3 like that), 18W is a fair rating for the Clark Beaufort, you will note that Mojo, Victoria & Kendrick versions of that amp (also cathode biased) are in the same area.
A 12W fixed bias Fender Princeton can usually make 20W+ in anger.
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Ev630
421 posts
May 13, 2010
4:09 AM
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The Clark Beaufort is certainly a fine amp, and a faithful copy of the old Tweed Deluxe. But I think there are better choices for blues harp that cost more than a thousand dollars less. $2250 for a 12-watt amp with a single tone control seems a bit pricey, to say the least. You could by a 100-watt 6x10 HarpKing amp for less than that!
But, Rick, do you know how much a 6x10 amp is to FedEx to the Middle East? Do you know how practical such an amp is in regard to my living circumstances? (Not very. That's why I brought my Masco and not my Piedmont).
Of course, a Clark amp may seem pricey to some. But in my experience those are usually the guys (even on occasion one or two professional touring harp players) who race up to me after I play asking me how I get that big fat greasey tone they've been desperately chasing all their miserable lives - and when I tell 'em, they usually reply, "Whooe-e-e-ee doggies. That's way too much dough for me. I think I'll just have to stick with my Crate/Fender Deville/Blues junior/Mission/Bassman RI/whatever."
Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you to buy a Clark. Just responding to your slack-jawed yokel response to the idea of paying for superior build and tone quality.
;)
BTW, you should start more of these threads. They're always fun.
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JDH
66 posts
May 13, 2010
6:09 AM
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Rick, "going after the competition"
An example is you suggesting that Micheal Clark, a well known, successful, respected, and anything but pushy amp builder is lying about the wattage of his amp.
I'm sure you didn't mean anything by it, but please don't refer to me as "my friend" you may give someone the wrong impression.
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Greg Heumann
452 posts
May 13, 2010
7:45 AM
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"Do you have anything to contribute to the debate besides penis references?"
I have made my contributions in previous posts in this thread and others. Maybe you didn't read them.
"I think we've established two facts here:"
It's clear YOU think you have established facts. But they are not facts, they are opinions. Your "science" is full of holes and incomplete. The fact that they are not facts is borne out by so many others' anectodal experience posted here, including mine.
Maybe if you simply opened up discussions and told us what your belief was, as opposed to insisting your way is the only way, you'd get a little more respect.
"1- Speaker area has almost nothing to do with amp perceived loudness. That is the main point of my OP."
Maybe not if you discount the actual usability/playability of the amp - but again in the real world that matters. More speaker area makes a big, big difference - both on stage and in the audience.
"2- Some people on this forum lose their composure (and their dignity) when challenged. That is very disappointing, actually..."
I am perfectly composed. I just get so irritated when people confuse fact with conjecture. It pisses me off.
" You are desperate to change the subject, even if it means reducing yourself to the level of a 12-year old."
Sometimes, in an attempt to communicate where previous attempts have failed, one has to lower oneself to the level of the one who fails to understand. Now how many 12 year olds do you know who could write a sentence like that?
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/Greg
BlowsMeAway Productions
BlueState - my band
Bluestate on iTunes
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 7:46 AM
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7LimitJI
136 posts
May 13, 2010
7:54 AM
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We're all wasting our time Greg.
He's too dogmatic, a legend in his own mind.
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Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
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walterharp
326 posts
May 13, 2010
9:02 AM
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two quick points,
How many top level pro's playing with amplified bands use a 1x12 amp?
second 5f6h may have less experience with amps than Bruce at mission amps, but probably has thought at least as hard about harp amps specifically. Almost certainly more knowledge and experience than most anybody posting on this board. He takes a very objective approach, so I suggest paying most attention to his posts, and ignore the bickering if you really want information on amplifiers.
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Ev630
430 posts
May 13, 2010
9:10 AM
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I'd also nominate Htownfess and Greg as a motherlode of accurate tech info on amps. JDH knows a thing or two, as well.
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5F6H
133 posts
May 13, 2010
9:32 AM
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Thanks for the vote of confidence Walter...there are other guys here who know their stuff - Htownfess, 7LimitJI knows pretty much everything I do, the builders of the amps mentioned of course...Jim Rossen & Don D (I think it's fair to say that Don inspired a good few of us in the olden days on harp-l) who post over at the Weber board.
I dare say that Rick will get there, if his enthusiasm is anything to go by, but the thing with learning is suspending the notion that you actually know anything to begin with...the more I learn, the more I find myself saying "I don't really know, try it" (there's no substitue for empirical testing & always more than one way to skin a cat)...the day I realised I knew nothing was the most liberating of my life! :-)
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Nastyolddog
706 posts
May 13, 2010
10:11 AM
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I often say to people that say i know nothing,
Bro you say you know nothing?
you told me you know nothing?
by saying this you know something
you know you know nothing,
5f6h when you say you relized you knew nothing
infact you knew more than nothing what liberated you was you realy did know something????
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 10:15 AM
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Tuckster
525 posts
May 13, 2010
10:12 AM
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I think we could make this whole discussion pointless if we made the drummer play with brushes and the guitarists nothing bigger than 15 watts.
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Tuckster
529 posts
May 13, 2010
11:34 AM
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Ev630- Ya,I know. I just feel that at least 90% of the bands I see play too loud. Maybe I'm getting old.
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Joe_L
252 posts
May 13, 2010
11:38 AM
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Yup, you are getting too old, but you'll have one thing a lot of us won't have.
Hearing.
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Tuckster
531 posts
May 13, 2010
12:12 PM
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LOL
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7LimitJI
137 posts
May 13, 2010
1:43 PM
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5F6H (Mark) is being very modest here :o)
I know practically all he knows because he figures it out,then shares it with me.
I've known him a long time and would say that anything he doesn't know about amplifying harp, ain't worth knowing.
He's probably the leading harp amp tech on the planet.
Another thing is, anything he discovers, he shares for free on the web. Not many techs and designers do this.
Thanks for your generosity Mark.
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Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 1:44 PM
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congaron
908 posts
May 13, 2010
1:48 PM
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"congaron-
Yes, we agree: I wrote this: "Adding a second sound source (another 10-inch speaker) that carries the same signal does not double the perceived loudness, but makes the sound seem only slightly greater." Your anecdotal stories seem to bear this out."
We sort of agree, i think. Acoustic coupling does mean exactly what i think it means, but low frequency reinforcement might explain it better.... Either way, measured 5-6 db increase is common when the speakers are identical, if some bass material is present....like a low harp has.
A "doubling of perceived loudness" is very hard to verify, but some would say the two speaker setup is twice as loud, some won't. I wouldn't. It is definitely perceptibly and quite a bit louder. Anybody who can't hear that much is somebody i haven't met yet.
Tuckster, I am the same way..heard another too loud band tuesday night, opening for the jam. made an hour feel like all night.
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Kingley
1160 posts
May 13, 2010
1:51 PM
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Yeah I agree. Mark is the man when it comes to harp amps.
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6SN7
55 posts
May 13, 2010
2:08 PM
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Gosh, somebody stick a fork in this thread.
To challenge the premise of a 1x12 means you are closed minded and don't think outside the box, blah, blah blah. baloney....
rick,please don't take this personally, but like it or not, you come off like a santimonious prat, rather than being knowledgable and informed. Clearly you are knowledgeable, so why is it you rub people the wrong way? (hint: you are not, repeat not, challenging me!) I can only think you like stirring the shit, which is pretty evident from other posts and you take great delight in it.
Please, for the sake of the Chicago amp and its success, let Bruce push this baby.
Last Edited by on May 13, 2010 2:09 PM
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Blown Out Reed
136 posts
May 13, 2010
2:15 PM
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CAT FIGHT!
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Buzadero
398 posts
May 13, 2010
2:36 PM
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I'm afraid I gotta go with the fishnets and the heels.
Look at the grip. Look at the embouchure. I don't even have to point out the head shake.
Zesty
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~Buzadero
Underwater Janitor, Patriot
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Tuckster
533 posts
May 13, 2010
2:39 PM
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LMAO!
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congaron
910 posts
May 13, 2010
3:35 PM
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And that amp looks pretty loud....lol.
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mrdon46
40 posts
May 13, 2010
9:24 PM
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This is the best thread I've read in a long time--the perfect blend of information, insight and drama. Bravo!!
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Ev630
432 posts
May 14, 2010
1:11 AM
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I agree. The Salami post was pure genius.
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7LimitJI
140 posts
May 14, 2010
2:00 AM
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"I agree. The Salami post was pure genius."
Yep, I've read it about 4 times and am still laughing :o)
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Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
Due to cutbacks,the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.
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