Sounds like old jazz to me. No eight or twelve bar blues, no blues scale. Or does it incorporate those elements and I just can't tell because of my lack of interest in jazz? ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
This is clearly and unambiguously a blues and the sax player Is using the blues scale for the most part. But, like any good blues player, he does not restrict himself to only playing blues scale tones. THIS IS BLUES.
Stylistically, it's not Chicago blues, and it's not the style most of the Little Walter clones play. But, blues is a musical idiom or style that is not limited to imitations of '50's or '60's blues records. A competent diatonic harp player should have no problem whatsoever playing on this tune in second position without OBs.
The phrasing and the way the soloists move through the chords are a little more sophisticated than Chicago blues, but a blues harp player who thinks it would be difficult or problematic to play diatonic harp over this tune is not a very competent blues harmonica player.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2010 3:19 PM
Yes, certainly the band in Diggs post is playing in a jazz style. BUT THEY ARE PLAYING BLUES. And yes, the sax player is copping some licks from "Night Train." But he is not noodling around aimlessly.
At a few points, the sax player plays some be-bop style lines and, to my ears, be-bop playing almost always sounds like aimless noodling (even though it's not), and I personally do not happen to be a fan of be-bop. But for the overwhelming most part, what he's playing is just blues.
Although a diatonic harp player may not be able to hit each particular note the sax player hits, this tune is VERY playable on a diatonic in second position. You just may have to leave certain notes out here and there--but that's not uncommon when a harp player is trying to cop horn licks.
The PHRASING and the length of the lines being played are not how a diatonic harp player TRADITIONALLY plays blues. But this sort of phrasing and use of longer lines is very DOABLE on a diatonic harp even if some adjustments must be made in the note selection here and there. Personally, i've never played my harmonica like it's a harmonica anyway
I often hear blues harmonica players dis musicians who play fast by saying that all those notes don't mean as much as one right note played at the right time. That may be true as far as it goes, but I've never heard a statement like that from a diatonic harp player who was capable of playing lines with the same speed and phrasing as a sax player. And yes, that CAN be done on a diatonic harp, but you won't learn how to do it by just copping licks from Chicago blues records.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2010 4:54 PM
It's BLUES. Put whatever style label on it you want, but musically it's just a BLUES. No need to make things more complicated than they have to be, and labels can artificially limit one's thinking. The important thing is that it's playable on a diatonic in second position, so who cares what people call it.
Look at it this way: If the instrumentation were an electric bass guitar, a synthesizer and an electric guitar, what would you call it? Would that make it "modern " blues? A rose is a rose is a rose....the notes are what they are, and musically, it's just a BLUES.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2010 4:58 PM
The OP is asking if it's modern, and by implication "what is modern blues?". This is, after all, the Modern Blues Harmonica forum. ---------- Ozark Rich __________ ##########
Brothers it's Jazz if i went to a gig these guys playing Blues, i would walk out mumbling swear words about Hopeless jazz muso's passing there selfs of as Blues muso's,
it's jazz,,jazz muso's can't play Blues this is a Prime example,
But if this is Modern Blues and deemed so, Brothers you in big trouble,come back in 50 Years see what we think about mordern Blues then:)
Bio for the sax player. Larry McKenna, tenor saxophonist, has performed as soloist with many jazz greats such as Clark Terry, Jon Faddis, Buddy DeFranco, Rosemary Clooney, Tony Bennett, Frank Tiberie, Warren Vache, Mickey Roker, Rosemarie Clooney, Johnny Mathis, Frank Sinatra, Mel Torme, Peter Nero & the Philly Pops and many more Music arranged by Larry McKenna has been played on The Tonight Show, with Johnny Carson, and in the movie Birdy, starring Nicholas Cage, in which he played and appeared in 1984. Larry resides in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
He has also taught at: Temple University, The University of the Arts and West Chester University.
You've got to be kidding. If you don't call this music blues, then you don't know what blues is. Musically this is BLUES. That's not because of what Buddha wants to call it or what i want to call it or what you want to call it or what Nasty wants to call it---it's what it is musically. IT IS BLUES. Period. You may not like it or enjoy it, but it is what it is = BLUES.
I mean, it ain't reggae, it ain't rock, it's not R&B, it's not classical, it's not C&W and it's not purely jazz. Musically it's blues and not even a particularly complicated blues. Anyone who seriously disagrees does not understand the simple musical definition of what constitutes blues. Buddha is fond of saying most harmonica players are not musicians. Go figure.
It's good stuff, but it sounds jazz to me, even if technically it's a blues. But it certainly isn't what I'd call "modern", it's rather the oppposite...
Jason Ricci plays modern blues, to me. RL Burnside did too (in a different way), on his last albums.
Where I live, I think "modern blues" qualifies bands with a raunchy sound and odd rythms, in the vein of Jon Spencer's Blues Explosion. A scene heavily influenced by Captain Beefheart too.
it is not modern. it is blues. those are jazz guys playing blues. the blues is a big neighborhood. no sense standing on the same street corner all day every day.
This last Blues in G? It's jazz-blues fusion..... using a jazz style guitar. Guys like Scott Henderson and Robbin Ford can play this style only they add a bit of rock to the mix as well.
Ok...the Work Song video..the beginning at least...is a jazzed up version of Locomotive Breath?? by Jethro Tull. Same chord changes.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2010 8:22 PM
but many harp players would call this blues. Personally I think it sounds like shit with the poor intonation and sour harp. But if it has a harp in it then it must be blues.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Like I mentioned above....the Robbin Ford, Mark Ford stuff is Jazz Blues fusion with a hint of rock at times. This is pretty much my favorite type of music to listen to. Larry Carlton can do this stuff really well too.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2010 8:35 PM
Yo Budda i tell you what that last vid is, Freaky God Dame freaky,How can you sing Modern Blues with a serial killer look on ya Face Just Wrong i say....
Ok let me start again Jazz muso's can't play Blues, to back that Blues Muso's can't play jazz,
A Brain surgan and a Proctocoligist are both Dr's they can't do the same job and won't try,
is this Modern Blues,tell me can you Pidgeon Hole Modern Blues,
we are a custom to what we all decree is Trad Blues and the master Who Played this style and methods used,
so what is it in the Modern Blues Players Kit that makes the Great divide,it's not the songs or style of music, if it was we could say yep that modern Blues i can he him do a double back flip folowed by a 1 half Over Blow,
it's not just playing a sloppy 12 bar with heavly accented jazz fusion i hope,
All i hear in the first clip and observe is a drum stuck on 1 boreing beat oops he changed wasn't that exciting still going no ware it's lifeless,
the Bass Player is allso just plodding along where is the solid groove behind the front man we hear so much about, these guys are just not doing it for me it is heavly influenced by jazz, all i hear is a clummsy 12 bar being belted out by some Jazz muso's,and the sax player and Piano man are well Spazing of in Jazzland,
This is my Opinion in a Democratic world I'm allowed to have an Opinion i was asked a question i ventured to give my point it's what i see and hear in this clip,
But Just Befor we go?? Ok tell a Jazz muso he can't Play Blue's, He jumps up and down saying But i can play the Blues listen to me,
now if i tell a Blues muso Player He can't Play Jazz he looks at me,and says Yeh i know Jazz sucks:) WTF was i doing next time stop me Bro Ok:)
What about this? I would call this "Shit-kicking Blues". I first heard this song about 20 years ago in Ireland,on acid, on a beach in the middle of nowhere (Conamarra)and I still laugh out loud thinking about it now.
Buddha...that clip was one of the funniest things I've seen all year.
IMO most people miss the entire point of modern blues. They think it has to be thought out - lots of thinnking goes into the structure, gear, tones, etc. Many think it has to have tons of notes, fast, and loud too. It also has to push outside the standard 3 chord blues structure. These things are not modern at all. they have been around for decades. The modern blues is in all of us if we just let what is truely inside us out. To have your own sound makes it modern because it hasn't been covered before.
Play what is truely inside you without concern for what the world thinks (including yourself) and it will be modern. What the world thinks of it is really a waste of time because it will get ignored, slamed as garbage, heraled as great, inovative, rehash, and every other type of critisism out there. Look at all the opinions on the stuff posted so far! Yes, they all are opinions, just as valid as mine or yours. There is no GOD that declares anything anything for me with music. I either like it or I don't.
I speak with personel experience on this subject. I play what is inside and it is usually ignored,slammed, or enjoyed by blues lovers. Why? For all the above mentioned critisisims. Art evolves from within our souls not our heads. Our head is the tool for the soul to physically run our body parts to make the music and has no creativity to it. If one is conciously working on being inovative, they are just not happy with their music and have yet to find that their soul is the key to it all. Walter
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=9090033 ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
I would coin it jazz blues, probably far from the first person.
The blues has fused with a lot of forms throughout it's history.
I consider jazz to be a much more intellectual music than any other form, seeking out new realms of tonality and expression, experimental etc.
The blues and most other forms it couples with are much more heart and gut oriented.
So jazz blues to me seeks to combine the headiness of jazz with the heartiness and guts of the blues and may come off like mixed signals to those who are drawn to the earthiness of the blues.
I personally am very feelings related. I think that is why I relate more to forms like rock, blues etc that convey a more emotional, and less intellectual expression.
Old Wailer. Tommy Emmanuel is about as good as it gets for guitar playing. He can do all the Chet Atkins crazy fingerstyle stuff...crazy flat picking and even Van Halen stuff. Talk about OMB...
That Trolololololololololololo guy reminds me of Mr. Bean. The performance reminds me of a Mr Bean act.
Anyway, I don't exactly know what I'm talking about, but in my opinion, there's no such thing as modern blues, anymore. There's only blues and ancient blues. Ancient blues was invented back when man walked with dinosaurs and yoked their stegasaurus to the plow....back before electricity. And it sounded like this:
Then millions of years later, Noah had to invent the electric guitar and amplifier so he could hear himself over the rain. (He used the lightning for power.) His family members invented electric keyboards, better drums and stuff so they could jam with him. And that was modern blues. But that was a long time ago. It's not modern, anymore. It's just blues. And it still sounds good.
Damm...she's got my old 68 Gibson SG. Traded it in for a Guild D25 Acoustic. It's would have been worth a mint if I still had it. Now I got the blues....
I'm surprised that a fairly straightforward 12-bar jazz blues in what jazz guys would term a "straight ahead" style, hard-bop-derived, is capable of generating any heat on this forum.
I spent years copping licks from this sort of stuff. The blues scale is amply in evidence here, especially in the first 8 bars of the head. The last 4 bars are a little outside, in harmonic terms, but nothing terribly weird.
I guess you could call this stuff modern blues, if by "modern" you mean "Modern Jazz Quartet," which is to say, "This stuff WAS modern in the late 50s and early 60s." It's not really what I'd call wildly progressive jazz. Most of all, it's nothing that should lead ANY contemporary blues player, no matter how traditionalist, to vituperate.
Nasty, I'm surprised at you. You need to get stark raving drunk and rent a copy of SWEET SWEETBACKS BADASSSSSS SONG. That is some serious clank-and-stomp blues, and very progressive and jazzy to boot. I think you've got more in common with that stuff than you realize.
Last Edited by on May 02, 2010 7:53 PM
