Modern blues harp player to be exact. I am curious what everybody on here thinks is the new knowledge and skill set a player needs to have to be on par with the modern blues harp players up-and-coming or current, and what skill set they need to have to bring the blues harmonica in new directions. Essentially a list of what you NEED to have.
1. knowledge of 12 bar blues, 8 bar, 2-5-1 turnarounds, 1-6-2-5, and seventh chords 2. Overblows and overdraws, bending these notes 3. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 12th positions playing. 4. excellent timing and musical phrasing 5. specific scales and modes in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd position including melodic minor, dorian mode, major scales, blues scales,pentatonic, and chromatic scales. 6. Playing music fast and having speed in your arsenal (16th notes, triplets, double time. 7. tongue blocking and lip pursing (for fast tonguing). 8. Utilizing the upper (3rd) octave of the instrument 7-10 holes 9. Knowing the tradition of the blues harmonica. The specific power moves, standard ways of playing, standard phrasing turnarounds. 10. Utilizing overblows and overdraws the play additional scales and modes and extend standard ways of playing blues harmonica in different octaves. 11. Being born carlos del junco, jason ricci, or adam gussow.
To the second post, I don't think you need to be a traditional player before you can become a modern player but I would think that listening to all the incarnations of the blues throughout time would only empower a modern player. ---------- There is nowhere to go and nothing to find, only something to create.
Another thing, I don't think that all those techniques listed are necessarily indispensable to being a modern harp player, although certainly indispensable if you want to be able to emulate the modern players.
I think knowledge of the instrument, a thorough understanding of the blues form, solid sense of groove, and ability to improvise ARE indispensable.
A modern blues player should also listen to other contemporary forms of contemporary music. Blues has always co-mingled with popular contemporary music.
Having a unique and distinctive voice through the instrument would be serious extra credit. ---------- There is nowhere to go and nothing to find, only something to create.
I think Bush summed it up pretty well, 'Breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out, breath in.'
Beyond that I think you need to know the blues scale and a sense of rhythm. You should probably have a nickname too.
I think modern can mean a lot of things. If you can play blues and do something that they didn't used to do I think you are doing modern blues. That might be overblows. It might be loop pedals. It might be using a Millionizer or a different harp tuning to get what you need. It should sound like it comes out of the blues tradition and then turns in some other direction.
@ shanster, yeah my list is not all inclusive or comprehensive, just a start. I'd hope that people would follow the lead and give a list of their own cause I, and I'm sure others, would like to see what others think. Is this necessary, not? whaddya think? As for the "unique and distinctive voice", that's what I'm getting at. Do you NEED to use the high end to have a modern blues harmonica voice? o-blows? can you do it simply through phrasing? Has that well already been tapped one too many times? To me it appears that players I instantly recognize on today's scene utilize most of those techniques I listed. Many who don't it is harder for me to recognize instantly.
As a modern blues harmonica player, I'm telling what you really need to do is not always study harmonica based music. In fact, the less you listen to harmonica players, the more modern you will be.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
being traditional is no fun. Copy copy copy and regurgitate...how is that less work than playing what you feel and have the chops to express it properly?
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
And as for listening to all different types of music, I do that a ton. Learning through osmosis is great and necessary, but this is a specifics thread. I want the "toolkit" so to speak.
haha nice KingoBad! Maybe I should be an abstract blues harmonica player. It will consist of splashing all the notes on the music at once, or in any random order that comes out.
@ oisin: what about air?
Last Edited by on Apr 16, 2010 9:37 PM
i dont know much at all about your 1st list MAL... I just pick it up and play it, maybe im stupid to think thats what i need to do, but the techie side of it turns me off...ive never been a book smarts kinda guy.
edit: i sent something i did to buddha for an honest opinion because i value his word, to which he replied: "thats good"...
ill take it. ---------- Kyzer's Travels
Last Edited by on Apr 16, 2010 9:47 PM
Playing traditional is actually a great deal of fun for me. I do what I do. I have a lot of fun doing it. I am a Blues harmonica player that plays Blues.
I don't consider playing traditional Blues to be copy, copy, copy and regurgitate...
I don't consider it to be ignorant. It may be boring to some, but I didn't start playing music to change it. I try to stay true to the classic grooves and feel. I wanted to play the music that I love and I am doing that.
I'm just drawing a distinction: I think a "toolbox" list is what makes a blues harmonica player "complete", but not necessarily modern.
For example, the harp playing on Keb Mo's albums certainly lacks many of the items on your toolbox list, but sounds modern due to the contemporary groove of the music, not that I find it particularly noteworthy. ---------- There is nowhere to go and nothing to find, only something to create.
Everyone's copying someone else in terms of styles and phrasing - whether it's blues, jazz or prog rock. I certainly don't see any technical innovators (or at least role models since he didn't invent his bag) since maybe Howard Levy. Certainly no one I hear on harp is doing anything innovative in a musical sense that they aren't copping from players on other instruments. Great playing, but within certain established traditions.
Whether you classify yourself as modern or whatever depends on whether you're searching for some way to distinguish yourself from... something else. What motivates that desire, I wonder?
i want to be good at playing jazz, country, rock, folk, blues, you name it. for me, being diverse is very very important. traditional, modern, i dont care. how bout just label me: good. ill shoot for that. ---------- Kyzer's Travels
@ KyzerSosa, why is being diverse very important to you? I'd say I'm with Kingley, who's with Ev630 and Joe L, I just wanna focus on blues. I think that is a way to become good is to have a focus instead of learning everything. If you look at the harp guys who actually have touring bands and careers they are the blues guys who either are playing in a traditional way or play blues and incorporate some bits of other styles (middle eastern in jason ricci's music for example). Howard Levy plays out a lot and with many different styles, but I think shooting for that level when your starting out will make you depressed very quickly. And in a way, as much as I love Howard's music, much of it is harp player music that is not really appreciated or listened to by the general population. Jason ricci's or Carlos Del Junco's stuff many of my non musician friends enjoy and listen to and I hear their stuff on the radio. I think that's what focus can do.
I started out a devout Gussow fan, and just did whatever he did and listened to whoever he suggested. Then I met the boys I jam with.. Straight Rock and Roll, with a pinch of blues. (ive incorporated more blues into it as weve gone along) they forced me to play tunes Id never tried to accompany before, and I liked it. Different progressions, etc. Then i met PT Gazell, and he's the jazz-swingingest cat I know. Awesome frikkin stuff baby! Then there's Buddy Greene's classical medley?
It has served me well to diversify in the past. My bread and butter in artwork has always been my pencil portrait work, but i do still life, i paint, airbrush, i do digital artwork, i sculpt. it makes me more well rounded, and able satisfy my own creative desires. as well as serve more people interested in buying art.
my bread and butter will always be blues on the harp, at least i think so, in my harp playing toddler-hood, its hard to say what it might evolve into, but i like the blues, its what captivated me about it from the beginning, and the core of what i do with the harp. I like to soak it ALL in MAL, so, if you CAN do it all, why limit yourself to just one genre? ---------- Kyzer's Travels
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 1:48 AM
on a side note, my sculpting is the most difficult/time consuming thing to do and i shy away from it in favor of what i do better/faster. i can assume my harp playing will reflect this as well. I agree that focusing on one single thing until its mastered is a good philosophy, but what about that doesnt translate into being diverse? if we can kick ass at blues harp with the understanding and years that it takes to achieve that success, that same frame of mind can easily transfer to other styles. At least I think... ---------- Kyzer's Travels
There is a bunch of great music in the world. Jazz, fusion, funk, rock, alternative, avant-garde, classical (such different from Haydn to Bach to Stravinsky), improvised classical (it's possible, I know some great musicians, that improvise over classical music), drum-n-bass (great groove and rhytmic patters, especially when played with real great drummer like Jojo Mayer), hip-hop (rhythmic poetry, voiced percussion), new age, world music: latin, arabic, african, russian, azerbaijan, indian, irish... etc. You can mix all of them, add your personality and be the only player in your style. It's much interesting than makin' no headway. For me ideal music is drum'n'bass rhytmic patterns + jazz soloing and harmonic progressions + rapping + some qoutes that fit music and songs. Listen to Eric Truffaz for example
It's great music for me, maybe not for you, but you can try your own, why do you want to copy anyone???
However I don't want to play exactly the same as Eric Truffaz, I'd prefer another feel of the music, and more song-oriented form (instead of jazz-oriented like Eric's music).
What about a good enough understanding of acoustics / sound equipment that allows you to walk into any venue and to get your sound right? If you and your band have a poor sound setup, the rest can be irrelevant.
$2000 worth of pedals so you can make Martian sounds spit into a microphone makeing Farty noises, Hay Presto Modern Blues:)
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 4:57 AM
there really is nothing new. It all has been done by someone, at some point. There are only so many notes on an instrument and ways to put them together. It is a finite situation from the physical point of view. Our culture gives 0 training in no mind-life without thought. What it gives is continous training in thinking and telling us we are feeling. Play with no mind and you will be an original. A million notes played whatever ways with thoughts makes one just another conglomorate or as buddha says regurgitating. Play one note with no thoughts and you will be there. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
hey i hear you Walter thats why i try and record some harp after a couple of tabs,a quart of beer,and a couple doobies,Then im set no need to think.Just go with the flow.
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 6:57 AM
Hobostubs: I am not meaning to offend your way, but gettin loaded just masks the thinking process. You studied martial arts. That is all about no mind if learned correctly. Do you think a master would perform better loaded?
What really happens when we get high is the thinking gets so delayed that it goes on tilt. The whole body goes on tilt. There are countless studies out there that show how poorly the body and mind work in unision when high. We need our body to convey ideas that use it like with brushes, pencils, instruments. Most music, art, life, done while high is muddled at best.
The illusion is there to the high person that it is creative and happening and if the audience is in the same state, they believe it too. I speak this from years of being loaded. Now that I am totally drug and drink free, I can tell you it is true. I read stuff like this all the time on musicians that got clean and never believed it because I wasn't. I was with Stevie Vaughn at his last austin city limits concert. He was totally clean. What a different man he was as a player and person. He died soon afterwards.
I am not judging you, just giving some stuff to think about. I was only ready to get straight when I was ready. Who knows how long I will stay straight? I get tempted often, but realize it will eventually end up in a mess with my relationships, music, and life in general.
Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
yea probelly so.Ive been clean off speed 6 years now that was the demon in my life,I dont get drunk but i like to drink a little and i puff a few hits now and then of weed.The pain pills well the VA gives to me for all the steele in my body.The way i get a buzz i can and have got stoped by the police and everthing went Ok.Cause of moderation knock on wood
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 7:14 AM
Thanks Waltertore, I like! So the prerequisites to being a modern blues harmonica player is to quit my drug habits and drinking, and rid myself of ego and mind. Those might be the most important skills in my toolkit.
but im like you on playing philosophy play what you feel,if its overblows great if its old school sounding even better,Ive never been able to play a cover tune on the guitar and sound like anybody but myself,and theres times ive tried and wanted to,i amagine i couldnt sound like someone else on the harp,if it meant a recording contract,In a way i wish i could but i cant on any type a instrument,but then i know some people all they can do is play covers and sound like someone else,but they usually have the paying gigs and please there friends,quicker
Michael ive heard you on clarinet,on here.your trained in music im assuming thats a whole different world,to me i would love to have learned how to read music,and understand the math of it,and the tecnical aspect,combine that with your soul and there no limits to what you can write
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 7:25 AM
that is great you are off speed. I have met people that can casually take a hit, or a drink. I can't. I need to go full tilt. That is my wiring for doing life. So, I have to leave it all alone. Also my wife died on the operating table in 1988 and luckly came back. I was high when they wheeled her into the operating room. I swore I would never get high again if she lived. I stayed totally straight until about 2004. Then I started drinking and quit 2 years ago. I pray I never go back. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
I have some friends that got busted and went to rehab,some can do moderation as long as they stay off the drugs that hurt them the most,but some tell me that they cant do anything or it will trigger them.i understand
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2010 7:31 AM
"Thanks Waltertore, I like! So the prerequisites to being a modern blues harmonica player is to quit my drug habits and drinking, and rid myself of ego and mind. Those might be the most important skills in my toolkit."
Hey Michael: I am going to keep that as my mantra! I would add - "have no wants but to enjoy your sounds". I have played with too many musicians that were loaded, egomaniacs and always thinking of the next level of making it. It was a major reason for going to the 1 man band concept. I was able to detach from the drinkers, drugies, egomaniacs, but never the thinkers. I often go in and out of thinking when I play. I also deal with my ego. Part of me wants to make it. It is an ongoing challenge in relaxing and letting things happen on their own. Anyone who claims not to have challenges of ego and thinking are lying. It is wired into us to have these things and to let them go takes blind faith.
That is what I strive for-blind faith that the universe will always guide me better than I can guide myself. So if you are drawn to learn theory, learn theory. If you are like me, you are drawn to be a wandering soul that sits with people and talks ands listens to their stories. Whatever calls you, do it. Don't fear losing worldly things or you will never get no mind. The notes are meaningless. They all have been done before. To spend your life on trying to come up with new concepts, riffs, etc, is a waste of time because if we had a data base for instruments that could plug in what you just did, it would spit out done already on such and such a date, with such and such an instrument. Music is about going beyond your instrument, your life, and becoming one with the universe. Walter
---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
Be a musician more than a player. Play live while you work on being a better player. Learn from your mistakes and fix them. Play to the crowd and please the crowd, even if you make a mistake.
My list: 1. Listen to stuff you like 2. Play stuff you like 3. Hang out with musicians you like, and play stuff together that you and they like 4. Don't play stuff you don't like just because your innate artist's sense of inferiority makes you think you ought to be good at it 5. If you get bored playing one type of stuff, move on to some other stuff 6. If you don't, feel free to keep playing it for the next twenty years -it will probably sound damn good by then 6. Don't follow lists written by other people
lol!!!! Too much information!!!! ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
