I am more curious than asking advice here. I know what I am going to do, but what would you do?
You are asked to play as part of a blues showcase made mostly of guitar players. You are one of two harp players. It is your first time in a large club that could realistically start booking your band for good money and good shows with national acts. You are starting to make waves with your group and working very hard to get to the next level. These are bands you are competing against for work AND literally competing against in a couple of weeks at a different event for a trip to the IBC.
The other groups are about the same age...their range of success on the scene is varied from less to more, but your solo instruments and vocals are superior on paper in most instances - especially as it relates to not doing the SRV thing, playing a range of blues, and having strong musicians all around as many of the other musicians are not bringing their regular band in to play. Your sound is not the stereotype of the other bands playing as they are either really traditional blues or SRV/Hendrix blues to totally rock (I am sure I'll hear more than a couple of versions of House is a Rockin' and Texas Flood).
What is YOUR mindset going in? How "competitive" do YOU make this on yourself? Are YOU there to buddy-buddy with the bands or try to embarrass them? Do YOU just show up and play and not think about the karma of the event? Do YOU do everything you can to make your band more successful after the event?
Like I said, I personally know how I am handling this exact situation (and I've replied to comments below), but I am very intrigued by the reactions of others and how they vary from personal experience. What would YOU do? ----------
If it was me I'd just play as well as I possible could. It would be a bit embarassing to compete only to find the other harp player was way superior on the night.
If there is something on the line that you will benefit from ---and, your bettering of anyone else doesn't diminish them in any way (except a little pride, which usually grows back) --- smoke 'em if you can.
Think more of from a band and business perspective. I know the other harp player and are styles are so different that it would be up to a matter of taste in the arena of blues.
I never sweat another harp player at multi-band events because no one around here in the blues scene plays anything like me...which is good and bad. The only local guy that would make me nervous is Clint Hoover...otherwise, I'd just call out stuff that doesn't work with the blues scale, lol. But yeah, I don't sweat being embarrassed anymore...especially since I also sing and front a full band whereas most (not all) of the local guys are limited to just harp or aren't very strong when they are asked to sing...that doesn't mean I am "better", just that I wouldn't stay afloat. I've jammed on stage with Jason Ricci and Chris Michalek and lived to tell the tale...I was in critical condition for a while, but I took my ass-kicking with a smile.
For the record the other guy reminds me of LD Miller...and I doubt I'd be able to stick around for a big jam where I'd have to go head to head with someone from another band...not that that wouldn't be really fun. ----------
Walk in like ya got the biggest Balls in the House walk up to the first band King hit the mutha Fkn lead singer walk away calmly,
Bro you will never get any place in life dissing other Bands But it Happens,
don't go there do your thing be friends with every one Flash that Charm but be assertive,let the People that need to know,Know you guys can Handle your self in a Pro Manner,
and as you Say
do everything you can to make your band more successful after the event?
make your last set one to remember leave the crowd wanting more
Mention the songs that you are About to play are from your Cd yep Take some with you Happy Crowd Happy Bar Owner,
Give the Owner a CD or other Big wigs that might be there wanting your services,
yes you are a Prostitute and are trying to sell your self so put together a good Pakage we want Top Shelf Bro No Street Hookers:)
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 7:34 AM
Be buddy-buddy and avoid being perceived as snobby in any way, then play your absolute best-not that you wouldn't do that anyway-but if you 'laid back' on your recording, don't do it live. Go all out. Don't stress yourself out, though. Relaxed is always best. ---------- Todd L Greene. V.P.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 7:44 AM
A musician should always work to support his art. Cutting heads takes you out of your game and off your path. There is a time and place for such things, I have been in head cutting situation but I have NEVER initiated one.
Honestly, you're not a strong enough musician to be cutting heads with anybody so you're already behind the eight ball in such trivial games.
I'm not an advocate of buddy buddy bullshit either. If you click with somebody then so be it. Be a student, be supportive and be yourself, that is the path of the true master. ---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Personally, I go with the assassin approach. As a person, I try to act the same regardless of my situation and not change who I am based on the situation...as a player, my reaction to this is to remain consistent which is totally to be an assassin (as an individual and as a band).
My goal and mindset will not waiver based on this particular situation (I am not going to act or play differently). My job is to come in, do my thing, and leave regardless of what is going on around me...I will leave nothing behind.
While I am not a fan of showing your whole hand just to show your whole hand, I will maximize the opportunity presented by our setlist and if there are casualities and collateral damage, than so be it. ;)
I guess I am just interested in what mindset the rest of you bring into relatively higher pressure gigging situations.
I personally don't make it a point to try and purposefully cut heads or try and go beyond what I do normally just to try and impress another musician...there are guys in my band who intially try and react that way, though. ----------
Off the stage,I like to be friendly with other musicians. We all have a common interest in blues. But on the stage,all bets are off. Give it your best and be yourself.
Buddha, we must have been posting at the same time. I am personally not into head cutting or being led into a head cutting trap, but it would be fun to participate in a big jam at the end of the night because it would be mostly guitar.
In the big picture, if you have found your own voice on the instrument, you don't need to cut heads...it isn't trying to be about apples to apples anymore. We've had a lot of sit-ins with the band and I have never done anything but try and put them over. Our guitar player will go out of his way to embarrass people, but that's not my thing.
And your full of crap because you brought your whole band to the Viking that one time just to try and cut heads with my guitar player! ----------
Always play the best you can! a tip: make sure the sound guy's on your side. if possible bring in your own sound man. no matter how good you play -the sound man can screw you up, either intentionally or inadvertently,. be nice to the sound man. this is very important in acompetative situation. your might sound great on the stage but nobodies hearing you in the audience. sometimes bands tip the sound man to make sure they sound good. sometimes that doens't work the sound mans brother -in- law in the leader of the other band-if you get my drift.. you dont have a chance in hell of sounding better than that band. ive heard stories about big bands have in their contract that the opening act only gets to use half of the available sound system. competition is a bitch
I'd like to think that these situations can be win / win. If one band is taking off, filling venues, then chances are some entrepreneur will put on another live music night somewhere else; if people like to see two players locking horns on stage, then it'll happen more often and more players will get involved; if one band is evidently better, puts on a stompingly good show and wins, that raises the bar and inspires other bands to up their game.
That said, it can get very silly when all involved can't separate the realities of this kind of competition - whether one likes it or not, venue owners want to make money and will book the acts that can do just that, these aren't necessarily the "best" acts - from their sense of worth...
And even sillier when more practised, more seasoned players get a kick out of beating up on or lording it over the less proficient, or when any musician invests too much of his/her wellbeing into how it all goes down with the judges / booking agents / music business.
So...
How would I handle this kind of situation?
Focus on what I care about (playing music, delivering songs that mean something to an audience, doing what I can to get the breaks I want and ABOVE ALL being a decent, friendly musician who treats other musicians as human beings and not a rung to be stepped on / grabbed onto to get up the ladder) and face the fact that many in the music industry only like music because it makes money and those of 'em that DO like music still have to live in the real world of profit, loss, sales and bums on seats...
I think you need to project confidence, but not arrogance. You don't have to diminish the achievements of others to make yourself look good. Just go on the stage and play your hearts out. The audience will decide.
Life's too short and the world is too small to make enemies. You never know when you might share the stage again. Stay on good terms with other bands. You can get work that way - if the other guys get offered a gig they can't fulfill and you're on good terms with them, chances are they'll put your name forward as an alternative.
Always be buddy buddy with the other bands. Be the coolest guy in the room, compliment them on their set, before and after your set help the band with equipment, and stand up front for their sets. You never know what opportunities other bands will present you in the future.
You should always play your best. Rock their faces off embarrass the crap out of everyone (except yourself). Live it is your moment, not a competition.
Another suggestion I have is to get the other harp player on stage with you for a back and forth. This may seem like a cock fight, but if you are cool and it is not like a battle then it won't back fire. Even if he/she is better than you... it will be YOUR band that will be remembered for the killer dueling harp solos.
That really jives with my mindset. It can be win-win. My generation has been just nailed with music=competition but not necessarily art. If I were trying to go full-time, I would really have to do things differently.
As a non-guitar player, I get to sit back this weekend and watch all of them duke it out, lol. I have very specific motivations when I play and I really don't like ignoring them to get in a pissing match.
However, I do use such events and ideas to help motivate me to be better at what I do and push myself as a player. At the end of the night, I don't care about how it is perceived as long as I've played honestly.
It is insane how competitive other guys are, though. This event features bands in their 20's and 30's (and wasn't supposed to be guitar driven but now is), and knowing from past events such as this and other comments, it is going to be mostly a guitar and ego driven wank fest. :(
Typically, I don't even go to these events. In fact, I didn't even go sing with my band at the last guitar one. They did all instrumentals - which I was very supportive of. My guys got the best reaction of the night because they came in and did their thing and worried about songs rather than showing off. Most of the other guys, regardless of age, went total ego-mode and did one long blues jam for their set. :(
The older pros in the area handled it much better, but it just gives the scene a bad name and cheapens what the legit guys are trying to do.
Based on interactions with guitar players, I was expecting a few of you guys to jump in and say, "Kill them all and shred like mad", but maybe harp players are just more mature in general??? That is very good to read!
Walk in cool, confident, and take no freaking prisoners, and never allow yourself to be intimidated by anyone. Hell, I find these fun and I'm not afraid of cutting contests. If you were playing in front of an all black audience, trust me, those guys are going for blood and so would I.
Trust me, being around many of those old masters, they were REALLY competitive as hell, just like any professional althlete is.
Shredding is one thing, but also making use of dynamics, something I see VERY FEW harp players ever do, plus have strong vocals will make you more dangerous than all the shredding ever will and most shredder guitarists usually don't have any dynamics to speak of.
One other thing you will need: SHOWMANSHIP. ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 10:47 AM
'Fraid I have no idea! I'd have to read up on it and/or find the right order of monk and ask him/her to answer that.
/standing up for yourself is also supporting your art./
Couldn't agree more.
So...
Does that mean cutting heads DOESN'T (always?) take you out of your game and off your path and actually being able and willing (when necessary) to cut heads may be a part of that path?
initiating a head cutting session is not a good thing and comes from ego not heart.
However there are times when there is an obstacle that has been placed in your path, head cutting in this instance does not come from ego and instead is a test of heart and courage.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2010 11:30 AM
Going in, I'd be nervous enough to be defensive or aggressive no matter how well anyone played.
Years afterward, I'd look back and wish I'd had more fun with it: playing other guy's licks who went before me, hamming it up, having a good time exploring the weird parts of the situation.
I'd plan something like, "I'm gonna blow everybody out of the water by doing my duck walk when i play." Then I'd get there, try to be cool around the other bands and end up playing it safe without duck walking.
Id be screwed then, Ive never even thought of "cutting heads". I havent been in that situation, and aint far enough along in my own playing to put even any kind of scratch on anyones head. I look forward to it tho. friendly back and forth makes for good music, and its in our nature to be competitive. It brings out the warrior in you, i can imagine. Buddha, if we ever meet, ill scotch tape holes 2,3 and 5 and 7 on your harp and cut heads with you... okay? ---------- Kyzer's Travels
I would forget the whole "cutting heads" thing and simply turn up and give the best musical performance you can. Don't worry about what someone else is doing as it's not important. You need to focus 100% on the job at hand and nothing else.
That reminds me, a few years ago, Howard Levy invited me on stage. Now if you don't know Howard, he's ultra competitive and will cut heads at any given moment and of course he attempted to cut me.
When cutting heads, you have to be smart. I can't compete with Howard, his level of musicality nor his chops so what did I do?
Howard blew a furious solo and then handed it off to me and I resorted to that stupid harmonica trick where all you do is blow on hole 9 and hold it for a few choruses. The crowed went nuts. heh heh heh....poor howard.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
another thing i would recommend dont listen to other bands , keep your sound in your head , thats why alot of guys get to a gig five minutes before they go on. if the other bands great it will mess with your nerves . if their bad it will fatten your head . just keep focused and play your thing you dont want to be playing and at the same time comparing yourself to others.
heres a good quote from william faulkner that i think is a good way to set your competative goals: he says " dont try to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors, just try to be better than your self. if you follow this you will get better and for the right reasons. if your motive is to outplay someone else than they"re running the show and they're in control.they are setting a standard that you have to beat . dont let that happen
I go out to play my thing. If somebody wants to start cutting heads that is fine. I always look forward to such encounters. That is what I was raised on in the black blues clubs sunday jams. back then the pros came out. A typical sunday jam in oakland might have charlie musselwhite and lowel fulsom show up. When you were onstage with guys like that it was time to show your stuff. They didn't let anyone up at those jams. You had to be known, so the musicianship was alway top notch. It is much different today. those old school jams are no more as far as I know. Anyone can get up and most are terrible and play way too loud on top of it. I don't go to jams anymore for these reasons. I have played some festivals recently that have "jam with performers" after the main stage closes. I was encouraged to go so I went. At one, i stood on the side of the stage for almost an hour and waited, never got called up, while a bunch of drunken fools made terrible noise. I went to bed. The same thing happened at another fairly well know festival I played. I am actually glad no one called me up. there would have been no room to play anything worth wasting a harp reed on anyway. I find no joy in being a monkey on a chain to a bunch of drunks that can't play. If that means I don't get hired back that is fine. To have a real inspiring(head cutting) session, you have to have great musicians onstage. The rhythm section has to be great and the lead players know when to turn it on and when to turn it over to the other players. One bad one can ruins it all real quick. Walter ---------- walter tore's spontobeat - a real one man band and over 1 million spontaneously created songs and growing. I record about 300 full length cds a year. " No one can control anyone, but anyone can let someone control them"
"I resorted to that stupid harmonica trick where all you do is blow on hole 9 and hold it for a few choruses. The crowed went nuts. heh heh heh....poor howard."
"I resorted to that stupid harmonica trick where all you do is blow on hole 9 and hold it for a few choruses. The crowed went nuts. heh heh heh....poor howard."
Did you use circular breathing or just one long burst of hot air to hold that note....
Just the phrase "blues showcase" and the vision of guys in their 20's and 30's playing too well-known blues tunes on stratocasters frantically in order to win a gig in a club is an instant turnoff for me. This sounds like as far from the blues as one could possibly get. Sounds like you're hangin' with a bunch of dorks. Do your own thing, and play with emotion. The song is the most important thing. Remember, no matter who you are, there's some 15 year-old asian kid somewhere who can blow you away on harp or guitar or piano or whatever, technique-wise, and another 11 year-old right behind him, no matter who you are. But if you got the songs, and the feeling, brother, you'll be alright. The audience will dig. I come from more of an indie/underground rock scene, and other bands have always been very supportive in my area...but then again, there won't be three or four bands who will play "Texas Flood" or "Red House" in a single night...so, the focus is on songwriting, and, for lack of a better term, showmanship. I enjoyed BBQ Bob's post.
I don't worry about it. In fact, I like the energy that other players provide. I go in and I play to the best of your ability. A friend of mine told me, "play every note like it is your last. You never know, it just might be."
There are a lot of good and some really great harp players in my area. One never knows when one is going to walk in. It's never a good feeling to be onstage and doing something half ass, when one of those guys walks in.
Maybe a better question is, do you want to be known as a person who is going to half ass their way through a performance or let it all hang out and play your best?
Play to your audience. Forget about the other bands and harp players. Just be yourself and show your unique talent and you'll do fine. Also be nice to everyone but by the same token don't be afraid to kick ass when you play.I guess what I'm trying to say is don't worry about what any other musicians say or think. You'll never please everyone and who wants to anyway?
back in the '80s somewhere(foggy decade) MADISON SLIM dropped in to a club to jam with my band. i told him,"i'm gonna blow your shit away tonight" he replied, "you remind me of johnny winter" so i said, "can i have your autograph?" and he replied,"only if you give me yours" well...he worked with the band and grooved better than i ever could and cut my head all nice-n-neat. i still have his bar napkin autograph. it reads, HARMONICALLY YOURS, MADISON SLIM. it was some of the best fun i've ever had.
I met Madison Slim about 20 years ago. He stopped out at a jam were I happened to be at. He played, then I played and he wasn't happy with me, he thought I went up there just to out play him. I told him, I didn't think he was good enough for me to care and I was just playing. Then he introduced himself and bought me a beer.
---------- "The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
I haven't seen Madison Slim since he used to be with Jimmy Rogers. How's he doing? ---------- Sincerely, Barbeque Bob Maglinte Boston, MA http://www.barbequebob.com CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
A few years ago, he was on the road with Rev Raven and the Chain Smoking Altar Boys. He left mid tour and RJ Mischo finished it out. Slim is a good player. I haven't heard anything about him in a long time. He may have gone back to Madison.
The last time that I saw Madison Slim, he sat in with Billy Branch at Blue Chicago around 1995 or 1996. He got his head cut real good that night. He was not pleased.
i saw MADISON (many years after he cut my head) at a blues fest in PA and we both were on the bill. this would be about 1999 or even into the 00s like Joe L says, he was with the chain smoking altar boys. he's a great guy but seemed to be very tired. but then again, he is super laid back.
i dont suggest this but this is the old school method of cutting heads: you wait in the club don't let your presense be known never ask to sit in. you wait until the band is playing a number and the house is hot and nunber is in the right key and the right groove for your harp and the singer is singing: after he finishes his chorus before any one has a chance to take a solo you walk up to the band stand and grab the vocal mic and blow your ass off then you leave: hit and run like the lone ranger "who was that masked man" if your really cool you come back in the club and hang near the womens bathroom and get the girls tel numbers while they are away from their boyfriends. a word of warning when trying this method of cutting be prepared to fight.
No, alleycatjoe, That wouldn't be "old" or "new" school...that would just be "being an a#*#ole" school. Many years ago I saw one of the great punk rock bands, Husker Du, at a college in NY. Some dude kept jumping on stage, shouting in the mic and diving off into the crowd during the set...the frontman, the great Bob Mould, announced that "the stage diving ends now!". This kid came back on stage moments later and Mould pushed him to the ground with a backhand and then the other two guys in the band left their instruments and kicked the cheese out of him with their combat boots. It was awesome!
