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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Disciplined Study suggestions year 3 to 4
Disciplined Study suggestions year 3 to 4
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Oxharp
179 posts
Mar 01, 2010
10:09 AM
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Hi all,
I am almost at the end of year 3 and feel I need to focus more on my playing than messing about with it.
I am embarking on a disciplined study of roughly 25 songs to learn end to end top to bottom.
My progress has slowed down quite a bit as there is so much music out there to listen to and research etc.
I feel I have lost my focus and a friend suggested I try this method.
He is a fantastic harp player and found this a great help.
He studied 3 to 4 cds of his choosing and nothing else for nearly 5 years playing them over and over and not listening to anything else. Now that’s discipline and I believe that a military approach is one great way to focus your playing ability and to move forward in your playing.
I would like 25 suggestions of song tunes to play for the next year and I promise to just study these songs and practice just these songs all the time.
I will of course still be going to gigs and recording as usual but I would like your suggestion please.
BTW anyone got an opinion on this strict learning technique.
I spent 22 years in the Army so I should be able to last.
Other suggestions welcomed
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Oxharp
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 10:12 AM
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Kingley
957 posts
Mar 01, 2010
10:26 AM
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I would recommend that you pick one song from 25 different artists and put them on one CD or playlist.
Pick good strong challenging numbers with different feels, chord structures and not just 12 bars.
I say this because I know someone who did a similar thing and just played Kim Wilson songs for a few years to the exclusion of everything else. He has a great sound but is now just a Kim Wilson clone.
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Johnster
25 posts
Mar 01, 2010
10:42 AM
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Good point Kingley, Variety is most definitely key.
It is a structured way to approach your study, but I think i could quickly become overly repetative uless there is a real variety in the songs you pick.
Someone told me, pick your favorite 10 songs, and learn them, whether they harp in them or not. Play them inside and out, backwards and forwards until you eventually make them your own.
I'm actually in my 4th year of learning the harp and I'm now working on, complete songs and trying to build a repertoire.
I play more than just blues though and currently I'm working on Irish songs, using Brendan Power's instructional materials. It's a lot of fun and it is very much in the same vein, as in learning entire songs and playing them over and over until you know them well enough to add your own "ornaments and decorations" and eventually make them your own.
As for which 25 songs, I think you should be the person to decide which songs, and also make some of them relatively easy, so you can get a sense of achievement and not gt too frustrated. I mean, just learning Juke, Whammer Jammer and the Creeper may take you longer than a year!
Good Luck
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harmonicanick
635 posts
Mar 01, 2010
10:52 AM
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BTW anyone got an opinion on this strict learning technique.
I spent 22 years in the Army so I should be able to last.
Russ, enjoying playing the harp has not got anything to do with parade ground discipline, duty, self-deprevation or following ze orders hmmm
Find music of any sort and play along, relax,feel the groove and improvise, step off that cliff :)
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Kingley
959 posts
Mar 01, 2010
10:54 AM
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I would also add practice numbers with vocals not just instrumentals and also practice singing to them.
One of the biggest favours ANY harmonica player can do himself is to learn to sing. This opens so many more avenues than just being a harmonica sideman in a band.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 10:54 AM
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MichaelAndrewLo
209 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:06 AM
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Start a youtube channel and post your progress! It's always fun to see. Mine is www.youtube.com/the5kproject
I think being very disciplined to excel at anything is a source of pleasure in itself.
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Buddha
1454 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:10 AM
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"Variety is most definitely key."
Be careful. If you ever speak to and A&R guy they will tell you Variety is a killer. If you want to get good at something you need to focus on ONE thing and develop your personality on the instrument.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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HarpNinja
230 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:18 AM
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I second Buddha's post. Find your motives for playing harp and exploit those. If it is to learn the songs of others, than learning tunes like that might not be a bad idea.
It is possible to have more than one thing, but if your goal is to play in an awesome band, it really pays to know your role.
I am essentially a blues rock player player. I can do a lot of other stuff very well, but that genre is my bread and butter...within that I try to create harmonica parts that are melody driven and jazzy.
My focus (not to say I've mastered it) is to play lyrically using all the notes and tones available to me while be a master at improvising.
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Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
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Album Ordering
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 11:19 AM
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HarmonicaMick
113 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:32 AM
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Oxharp,
I think you're right on the button here.
I too have reached a similar state of affairs, and have had similar thoughts. Without a focused program of study, too much of one's time ends up being used JUST noodling around.
For myself, I've decided to go right back to basics. That might sound extreme, but wait! I dusted off my Barrett DVDs, and, right from disc 1, he's getting you to do tongue slaps while blocking out three holes. I can do them blocking two no sweat, but three!
My point is, it's taken me about a week just to figure out how to block three holes without using that tilted embouchure he advocates - I never could get used to that way of playing. It's easy really - not the tilted embouchure - just relax the jaw, and that seems to help give the tongue the slightly slanted angle to the comb it needs to do the job.
Anyway, that's one thing I've learnt. Now I'll soldier through the rest of it and, no doubt come up against other obstacles to overcome.
I suppose the reason I'm banging on about using a method, e.g. Barrett's, is because it's a good, systematic way to try and cover as many bases as possible.
I'm not working exclusively on Barrett, though. Madcat's Ins and Outs of Rhythm Harp is a fun, alternative approach to study in style and technique.
I hope I'm not circumlocuting too much around your idea.
I think that Kingley is also bang on. What I've described is work, and, as they say, 'All work and no play...'
If, unlike me, you're happy, with all your basic techniques then I think your idea is a good one. But, in my view, it needs to be more flexible.
My approach will involve working on some extra curricula pieces, just for the fun of it.
Oh yeah, suggesting a song. Off the top of my head, Big Walter Horton's harp line to Careless Love. Why? Because it's bloody marvellous.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 11:49 AM
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Kingley
960 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:33 AM
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I agree with what Chris said.
What I meant was variety within the genre. For example if your studying blues, 1 tune by James Cotton, 1 by William Clarke, 1 by Rice Miller, etc, etc.
I think it's very important to find your voice within the genre and not just imitate someone else's.
Take Paul Lamb as an example. In his sound you can hear Big Walter, Sonny Terry, Little Walter, Rice Miller, etc. What comes out however is pure Paul Lamb not an imitation of each player. The only time that is the case is when he does his Sonny Terry tribute piece.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 11:35 AM
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HarpNinja
232 posts
Mar 01, 2010
11:50 AM
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For me, the aha moment was in February of 2006. I had been playing a couple of years and was in AZ hanging out with Buddha. I knew I wanted to practice harp and was dedicated. I had learned a ton of information and techniques but not their application. I had guys I loved trying to steal ideas from like Jason Ricci...I was all flash...all ego. Chris finally just looked at me and said, "You're not meant to play like Jason. That isn't who you are. Practice your phrasing and stop wanking."
That was pretty much the direct quote. He then played Joyful Noise by Derek Trucks and I was instantly enlightened. I spent 4-5 days with him and he showed me absolutely nothing on harmonica. Not one riff, phrase, or anything. We just listened to music.
I came back home and was a whole different person on harmonica. My band noticed immediately. Maybe others can't hear it (how many of you honestly listen to music and hear it rather than listening with prejudice???), but I know that what I am playing is my music. I can feel when I am letting myself play and when I am thinking of what I am playing and not in the moment. I can play without attachment, fear, and without ego...at least live. In the studio I like to try and balance in more planned playing.
I no longer judget it, I just accept it and try to follow along like the audience. Music is a lot more fun now.
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Mike Fugazzi
vocals/harmonica
MySpace
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Album Ordering
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nacoran
1296 posts
Mar 01, 2010
12:56 PM
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One thing you might want to focus on a bit is theory and structure. Songs aren't just a long series of notes, they are repeating, predictable patterns. If you can learn those patterns, there are guys out there who can hear a song one time and play it back note for note. That may sound far fetched but think of a house a couple miles away from yours. Think about giving someone directions to get there. There may only be three turns, and you have to tell them how to spot those three turns, but lots of it is just counting how many blocks are going by. I'm not there yet myself, but that's what I want to know how to do.
I'd suggest, and maybe other people can contribute a list, learning a shuffle, a tango, a waltz, basically one of each of the common types of beats, then learn something with some key changes so you can learn to change positions on the fly, and learn a couple songs in more than one position. Then pick some stuff with thick tone, some with thin... Learn the road signs, then when someone tells you 12 bar shuffle in E, he's basically told you were the turns are and you can take the steps yourself.
Learn a couple crowd pleasers too, and at least one song that will make the ladies knees wobble. :)
At least that's what I'd do. Also get some time playing with other instruments. If you have a guitar friend who likes a particular song, learn to play that song. Get time up on a stage. Do recordings to see what you really sound like. You can use the really disciplined route, just make sure you don't end up with 25 songs that sound alike that all taught you the same thing.
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Johnster
26 posts
Mar 01, 2010
1:09 PM
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Nacoran, that is exactly what I meant about variety being key. Pick songs that will teach you different things.
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MP
24 posts
Mar 01, 2010
1:27 PM
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i think taking a music theory class at a community college would be helpful. then, if you get in a band and the bass player asks,'does this blues start on the 1 or the 5?' you can tell him. also, when you are learning songs; keys,beats,and structures are no longer incomprehensable freakish mysterys. also, listen,listen,listen, and then listen again.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 1:30 PM
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mr_so&so
275 posts
Mar 01, 2010
1:55 PM
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I've been pondering this question too. Right now, I'm still humbled by how much basic technique I still have to work on. Somewhat like Mick, I've been thinking about trying the Dave Barrett bluesharmonica.com lessons for a while and getting back to basics. There are still a bunch of Adams more advanced MBH lessons that I should have a go at too.
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Joe_L
53 posts
Mar 01, 2010
3:57 PM
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Oxharp - This may sound harsh, but it's not intended to be. If you can't think of 25 tunes that motivate you to learn, you need to listen to a lot more music. Maybe that ought to be your goal for the next few months.
If you want to play Blues, start listening to music on Adam Gussow's Top 20 Blues Harp players. If you can't find something there, then maybe Blues isn't your thing. Pick another genre and start digging.
None of us can tell you what will motivate you. It's a highly personal thing. Stuff that some people dig may not be to your liking.
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congaron
588 posts
Mar 01, 2010
4:03 PM
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If it were me...speaking from personal experience only...playing something 3 or 4 years puts me in the mood to learn another instrument. By the 3-4 year point, I am comfortable playing music from my guts through an instrument and look for new ways to do that. I am already picking up whatever harp is closest by and trying to play whatever music is on in the room. In 2 or 3 more years of that, I will probably find another instrument to learn. Every instrument adds something to your outlook on how YOU play YOUR music. Many techniques criss-cross when you do this and you can really become the musician that's inside you fighting to come out. I played guitar in a wedding last year because the singer simply knew I could do it. Guitar is probably something I do the least in public, but when i do, it's me that comes out. I think studying different instruments really rounds you out and lightens you up on some of the pet peeves you read about on different forums. It becomes a musical journey instead of an instrumental destination. It never gets old this way, at least for me.
I play Guitar/bass, Mandolin, Trumpet, conga, bongo (not just small congas, BTW), Harmonica, drums and sing. I think everybody should sing. Some of my favorite solos on guitar or harp started out as vocal experiments in my little practice studio.
I also go back to basics and make a lot of practice recordings and videos to track and review my progress. It helps me get back on track when I can see or hear that I've stagnated. I have even detected backwards progression this way when i got balled up in learning a technique that was difficult enough to sidetrack my path(overblows come to mind). Videos and audio recordings help me minimize this and keep it real and progressive in my improvement.
I will add that I have zero desire to be a professional or the best on any one instrument. I do get paid for playing these instruments, sometimes quite well. Having several instruments gives me something i can do for virtually any band around here as a sit-in musician when they want to add a new sound to their own. It's a blast and keeps it fresh for me.
I am going back through some Dave Barrett stuff right now too, after lending it out for a couple months to someone else.
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2010 7:03 AM
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sudsy
2 posts
Mar 01, 2010
4:37 PM
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mr.so&so- I have purchased and played along with everyone from Barrett to Gindick to Gage etc. The most progress I have made is buying the songs from Gussow. For example I buy a song that includes bending the 3 draw a 1/2 step and a full step and then start playing. It has worked wonders for me. I could do the bends before, but couldn't use them. I have made a list of songs with techniques I want to truly learn. Slowly, I'll get through them and become better.
I liken this to teaching writing to my students. I can explain every part of speech to them and they can recognize them, but to learn to write they need to write.
I've watched some of Buddha's videos and I believe this to be his method. He gets his students jamming along and then gives them a technique to concentrate on and gives them suggestions. He challenges his students and gets the most out of them.
Last Edited by on Mar 01, 2010 4:39 PM
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Blueharper
52 posts
Mar 01, 2010
9:06 PM
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I did'nt read anyones suggestions.Do You sing?
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mr_so&so
276 posts
Mar 02, 2010
9:49 AM
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@Oxharp, I didn't address your original post before. It sounds like an interesting idea to choose 25 songs. Personally, I wouldn't have the discipline to stick to just those though.
@sudsy I've also found Adam's lessons in the MBH store really helpful for learning specific techniques. My current fav. is John Lee Williamson's Blues -- a great one for getting into some tongue-blocking. I started it using Adam's hybrid playing, but now play it completely TB'd. I've been playing it for months toying with technique --- and it's an awesome sounding song too.
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2010 1:41 PM
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mankycodpiece
126 posts
Mar 02, 2010
10:38 AM
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when i was trying to progress beyond playing everything in C on a chromatic many years ago,i found i didn't have the discipline to do scales,one after the other.
i found the music of antonio carlos jobim,where there are so many key changes within one song,with so many chord changes because of the different progressions,just taught me how to play in different keys.
if you can do the chromatic scale on the harp,i don't know of anything better than jobim's bossa nova music.
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