Always Harpen
1 post
Feb 25, 2010
1:35 PM
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Ok gentlemen, new to the forum and only in last couple years been taking harpen more serious...Received my Manji yesterday and was wondering if anyone, who may have one, found it not real responsive. Mine is a C and feel I have to really blow/draw hard to get good notes. It's not even close to my Bluesmaster for sound and ease of playing. Someone help me out here. Did I get a lemon or are they all that way for quite some time?
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Leonid
44 posts
Feb 25, 2010
1:44 PM
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Yep, I got mine, paid £53 for it and it is total piece of crap. I am so pissed off, I could have bought 2 Golden Melodies.
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rbeetsme
201 posts
Feb 25, 2010
1:47 PM
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I like the Bushman Delta Frost, very responsive, loud easy to play fast. I ordered a bunch yesterday, arrived today, every key in stock! I understand Sam Ash is carrying a good supply too.
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Always Harpen
2 posts
Feb 25, 2010
1:49 PM
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I paid $37.95 plus shipping. My #2 hole blow/draw is near impossible to get any sound. I thought the "great" tolerances were going to fix some of these problems...guess not.
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The7thDave
49 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:00 PM
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Mine's very responsive. No problems. Not sure I really like the bright, glassy tone, but that's a different issue.
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Blueharper
38 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:02 PM
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I guess it is just "different strokes"
When I got my 1st Manji it made me buy a whole set,and I'm not sorry.Harpen,I wish Igot mine @ the price you did.
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Oxharp
170 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:15 PM
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I got a G an A and a D and I think they are very loud well tuned and all the holes play very easy. LP or TB
May be its just me.
I just ordered 2 crossovers to compare the two.
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Oxharp
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Ryan
182 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:30 PM
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I can't tell you for sure, but if I had to guess, I'd bet it's just a gapping problem. Them people who work in the factory, unfortunately, are not expert gappers and they only spend a very short time on each harp. The reeds are probably gapped too high and I would suggest you carefully lower the gaps. If you haven't done this before I suggest you check out the series of youtube videos that Joe Spiers posted, they are a great guide to teach you how to gap.
Gapping is the most important skill you can learn and it is well worth taking the time to learn it. Of any individual modification, gapping is the most important and will do the most most to improve the playability of your harp.
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2010 2:32 PM
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Aussiesucker
558 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:38 PM
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I've had a C Manji now for 3 months. It takes a lttle getting used to. Compared to Bluesmasters & Harpmasters it feels tight. It certainly is responsive. I am not unhappy with it.
Also I have had an Ab Manji on order now for over 3 months & was advised there were further long delays in supply. Got sick of waiting so have ordered a Crossover & expect to receive it straight away.
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Jaybird
125 posts
Feb 25, 2010
2:51 PM
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I have been playing Bluesmasters exclusively for the past few years. Due to all the hype, I recently purchased a Manji from Rockin Ron for $45 including shipping. It's very responsive and loud. A very good harmonica. However, I don't care much for the compromised tuning, or maybe it's a little out of tune, my ears can't tell.
Anyway, I don't think the Manji is worth the extra money as compared with the Bluesmaster.
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www.Youtube.com/Jaybird33066
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nacoran
1242 posts
Feb 25, 2010
3:19 PM
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Welcome to the forum. I haven't tried a Manji yet, but most of the reviews I've seen were pretty good. Have you looked at the gapping?
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Always Harpen
3 posts
Feb 25, 2010
4:04 PM
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Not yet, due to my inexperience, is that the space between the reeds and the comb?
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snakes
469 posts
Feb 25, 2010
4:17 PM
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I am very happy with my Manji's - I have three. My bet is it would do well with getting gapped.
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Ray
151 posts
Feb 25, 2010
4:29 PM
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Space between reed and reed plate. You should be able to find videos on youtube on gapping. Also check the back issues of www.harmonicasessions.com There should be a good How-To on gapping and embossing there.
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2010 4:31 PM
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bazzzzou
9 posts
Feb 25, 2010
4:38 PM
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I have 2 manji and they are my best harp by far!
My manji are really responsive and they've got a loud and raspy sound.
They are the best out of the box I had ever play:(marine band, special 20, lee oskar, bluesmaster, harpmaster,big river, promaster 350v, pro harp, golden melody)
It's my opinion on the manji!
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HarpNinja
220 posts
Feb 25, 2010
5:28 PM
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For nearly the same price you can get a customizer or the like to seal a Marine Band and switch to screws...even gap...and have a way better harp, IMO.
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Mike Fugazzi
http://www.myspace.com/niterailband
http://www.youtube.com/user/NiteRail
http://www.twitter.com/NiteRail
http://www.facebook.com/mike.fugazzi
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jonsparrow
2398 posts
Feb 25, 2010
5:36 PM
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ya i had to gap mine cause it was pretty unresponsive. after that it played wonderfull.
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Kyzer Sosa
136 posts
Feb 25, 2010
10:17 PM
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I just have a Bb Manji...it IS different than any other harp I play, but I gotta say....I drilled Adam's front porch blues for a long, long time, since my introduction to the harmonica and despite ALL my attempts (With my plastic bodied Sp 20) at recreating the subtleties he uses in that vid, I couldn't really get close to it till I got that Manji...
I have great suspicions as to why this is, but this isnt the thread to elaborate on that.
Perhaps you got a bum one. It happens..Ive bought one marine band, my second harp, an A, and it sucked. Ive never bought one since...
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Kyzer's Travels
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sorin
149 posts
Feb 25, 2010
10:34 PM
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I have a Manji in C , and it's just like yours, very unresponsive , despite all the gapping and other stuff.
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Explorz
9 posts
Feb 26, 2010
10:01 PM
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I bought both an A and a D Manji from Rockinrons. He's great to work with. Unfortunately the Manjis I got are crap. I returned the first D harp because the 2 draw was so incredibly leaky. The new D had similar problems and when I really drew hard on the 2 or 3 the reed would actually stick and release with a repeated twangy sound. The A harp 7 draw was also totally unresponsive. I love my blues masters and was excited about the Manji. So, I sent them both back to Manji for repair. Just got them back. Now the A has major issues with the 2 and 3 draw and the D is the same as before. So, even with the repair folks tweaking and gapping, they are crap. And I don't expect that I should have to re-gap both harps at $45.00 a piece. Too bad, I had high hopes for the technology in these. But they're putting out a really inferior harp.
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nacoran
1263 posts
Feb 26, 2010
10:21 PM
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Explorz- A sticking reed could just have a little burr or the reed might not be lined up right. Gapping isn't so bad. You can do a rough job that should improve the play in five minutes. It would be nice to get everything perfect right out of the box, but most musical instruments need a little set up. Guitar players mess with pickup heights, there are little valves to adjust the pitch on brass instruments,... Sometimes you'll get lucky and get a harp that is perfect, but stock harps are going to occasionally have some problems. You also have to remember that different players are going to want their harps gapped differently. The stock harps just shoot for the middle.
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Aussiesucker
561 posts
Feb 26, 2010
10:27 PM
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As said previously I was and am happy with my Manji. It's not outstanding ie I still like my Harpmasters & Bluesmasters.
But, yesterday I received a Crossover Ab instead of a Manji that I have had on back order for over 3 months & with no delivery date certain. I will in future be buying Crossovers to replace other keys as they die.
Comparing a C Manji with an Ab Crossover is like comparing apples with oranges however I am very happy straight up with the Crossover it is great.
Aesthetically both are classy looking harps. The Crossover being smaller. Sound; well the Manji is bright & loud and the Crossover is meaty, raspy, clear & loud. Also the Crossover comes with a classy zippered soft but firm protective case.
I know comparing OOTB harps is the luck of the draw as my experience could have been the opposite. But for now I'm a Crossover Marine Band advocate.
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528hemi
70 posts
Feb 27, 2010
10:05 AM
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I have 5 Manji's a few needed gapping and then they played wonderful! Dont expect any OOTB harp to be perfect. If you get one that needs no ajustments you are lucky.
I fixed any issues with my manji in 20 minutes. IT is really easy once you learn how to gap.
528hemi
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congaron
582 posts
Feb 27, 2010
11:39 AM
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learn to gap with a toothpick and a paper clip and buy marine bands. You can gap them with the covers on in a few minutes, after you take a pair of lineman's pliers and squeeze the folds in back to open the covers up for better projection. A little electrical tape on the pliers prevents marring. Or gap the manjis the same way. Toothpick through the draw hole for the draw reeds, bent paper clip from the back for the blow reeds.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2010 11:40 AM
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congaron
584 posts
Feb 27, 2010
12:25 PM
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Thanks..it works like a champ. I don't open my marine bands anymore. The rest I take apart for cleaning periodically, but never for gapping.
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Explorz
11 posts
Mar 22, 2010
10:26 PM
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What's interesting is that after I sent them back to be worked on, even Suzuki couldn't gap them correctly. I've never had any OOTB harp have as many issues as the Manjis that I got. What can I say, I'm just comparing these to years of buying OOTB harps and these are the worst I've ever dealt with AND the most expensive. Just doesn't make sense. Now Suzuki has had the harps back in for repair for over 3 weeks. This has NOT been a good experience. I must reiterate - I love my Suzuki Blues Masters.
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2010 10:27 PM
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eharp
571 posts
Mar 23, 2010
5:38 AM
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you would think it would be cheaper and easier for them to just ship you new harps.
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oda
244 posts
Mar 23, 2010
6:06 AM
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I love the Manji. It's like a Marine Band but with some mods done (comb, rounded edges) and after a little gapping, it played very well.
The downside? I dislike the sound. It's very thin, I find. A comparison of an 1847 vs Manji convinced me of this.
I'm going to try it in other keys.
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Joch230
37 posts
Mar 23, 2010
7:11 AM
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I have a D and a Eb Manji. They are the very rare for me harp that I didn't need to do any reed gapping or embossing on. My most expensive harp is a Firebreath and that needed a fair amount of work to get it where I wanted it. My Harpmasters....the Db didn't need work but the high F and A did. The A is still being tweaked. The 2 blow totally didn't sound out of the box. Can't believe that could have gotten past any inspection. Wish I could afford custom harps but the mid range stage 2 types seem to be in the $180 range and the full tweaked out versions are over $300. The ones that are just gapped with minor adjustments are less but I feel I can do that stuff myself.
John
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Ben Bouman
9 posts
Mar 23, 2010
2:25 PM
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In my on-line webshop I offer tweaked Manji's/1847/Marine Band
www.customharmonicashop.com
Ben Bouman
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ness
166 posts
Mar 23, 2010
6:34 PM
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In all the time I've been reading this forum, there's never been a consensus on a particular harp. I would bet I could find a post for every harp out there, with someone saying it's the best 'OOTB' harp ever, and another saying they're crap. And a whole bunch with people saying they tweaked it and it's ok. A bunch more saying it's their favorite, and some others saying they like something better. If it's JI, a bunch of people will say that's great, more will say it sucks.
So, I'm gonna conclude that just about any harp will do ya, if you do a combination of a little tweaking, and maybe even a little adjustment to how you play it. I got a feeling there's been a lot of great music played all of them, at one time or another.
We now return you to regular programming.
John
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jbone
298 posts
Mar 23, 2010
6:59 PM
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i just got #4 manji, so i have A, C, D, low F. all perform great.
i'm among those who like tha manji and say it's the best ootb harp i've ever seen.
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the frozen canuck
93 posts
Mar 24, 2010
6:19 AM
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i bought my first manji in c in november liked it so much ,i ordered the complete set and all work & play extremely well NO ISSUES
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7LimitJI
47 posts
Mar 24, 2010
6:37 AM
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I agree with Ness.
Any "quality" harp thats been arced and gapped to suit you, or by you will suffice.
But actual choice of which harp, or which manufacturer to buy comes down to if you like brighter harps like Lee Oskar, smooth like Special 20, or open or closed end covers, plastic or wooden body, etc,etc
It is a pain that its a lottery with OOTB harps, so either buy custom harps,or learn to tweak them yourself, the enjoyment and playability increases immensely with either.
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The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam
Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
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barbequebob
637 posts
Mar 24, 2010
11:20 AM
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7LJI, that's simply stating the truth!!!! Expecting any OOTB harp to be "perfect" (and even one's definition of what's perfect is gonna always be highly questionable from player to player) is flat out FOOLISH. No matter how good any manufacturer makes them, there are always gonna be stuff that's not quite right, be it player's tastes or anything else and when a company is putting out about 1,000 harmonicas in an hour, come on, let's get real heare because there will ALWAYS be something that gets sacrificed no matter what and every business or manufacturer has to be cost conscious or it costs more to make and every added thing to the production line costs, guess who pays for it??? YOU DO!!!!
The only way you're gonna get what you want is gonna be from a custom harp, and they're all done by hand, one by one, and not from machines spitting 1,000 of them out an hour and it is much more labor intensive and because of that and setting them for an INDIVIDUAL player and NOT for the masses, it is ALWAYS gonna cost more.
Unfortunately, the average player often has no real clue of where their playing really is at and that's a prerequisite before ordering a custom so that it conforms to YOUR playing and yours ONLY!!!
Generic customs basically defeats the purpose of what a true custom harp is, basically just a slightly improved OOTB and not really tailored for YOU and YOU ONLY and I really have to laugh at that idea.
Many players compalaints really have little to do with the harps themselves and too often their real culprit is their playing technique and often that is something they don't really want to face up to, like it or not. Now how many of you thought about the way you play first??? I'll bet 80% are guilty of blaming the harmnicas first and never looking at where your playing technique is.
BTW, I don't have endorsement deals with any retailer, manufacturer, or customizer, but having played stock as well as customs, the one thing the average player NEVER considers as part of the equation is their playing technique, thair ability or inability to adjust things like their embouchure, etc.
It's kinda like people who want a car at the quality of an Aston Martin or Rolls Royce, but wants to pay Hyundai prices, to which I say, get real!!!
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
Last Edited by on Mar 24, 2010 11:21 AM
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Explorz
12 posts
Mar 24, 2010
2:00 PM
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I need some advice. I received my two new Manji harmonicas from Suzuki. D and A. Rockin' Ron was great in working with Suzuki to get them to replace my non-functioning harps. And Suzuki shipped overnight UPS. That was great! The A plays fine. Unfortunately the D has the exact same problem as the last 2 D Manjis. The 3 draw bend chokes and whines. I can get all the bends out of the 2 and 4. But the 3 is dead. So, I am certainly willing to gap and fiddle to get this to work.
My questions are: Do I gap or arc only the draw reed? Do I increase the gap? (tried to do that and it still is unresponsive). Do I decrease the gap? Thanks in advance for advice and assistance.
Last Edited by on Mar 24, 2010 2:02 PM
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harpwrench
200 posts
Mar 24, 2010
3:30 PM
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As long as customers are willing to let them get by with this stuff, they'll keep letting stuff like this ship out the door.
Suzuki has a "technician" in the USA, if he knew what he was doing it shouldn't have been a problem to correct- without beginning the gambling process all over again with replacements.
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eharp
580 posts
Mar 24, 2010
3:44 PM
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i have been playing delta frost for years. never blown a reed. never had an issue with them out of the box.
if i ever need another harp, it will be a bushman just because i have never had a problem with them. as curious as i am about the newer models, i just would want to chance getting a harp i aint happy with or have problems with.
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harmonicanick
691 posts
Mar 24, 2010
3:49 PM
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Bunch of crap, I will stick to GM's
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harpwrench
201 posts
Mar 24, 2010
4:23 PM
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Hohner has their problems too though, I wasn't singling out Suzuki (although the sticky Suzuki 3 draw has been a Suzuki issue for a long time on many models).
Show of hands....lets be honest.... how many here have bought a MB, GM or SP20 within the last 5 years in the key of A or Bb that the 2 draw bend makes a horrible squealing sound? How 'bout a key of D that the 3 draw sticks and then squeals when you *gradually* release from the deepest bend all the way up to the natural note? Squealing/sticking draw reeds anyone? I can make pretty much all of them do something weird that they shouldn't- and didn't a few years ago.
All I'm saying is that the makers need to be informed when you're unhappy with their product, so they'll at least consider doing something. Whether they'll do anything about it or not, that's anyone's guess...but if you don't voice your dissatisfaction then they probably won't.
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Kyzer Sosa
236 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:00 PM
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i agree with harpwrench. i can go to the music store, and buy a $500 saxophone, and right down the isle, there is the same instrument, but it's $5000. huge difference, and that difference can be seen among many many other items offered there.
that extra $4500 buys you SOMETHING. it just has to.
a harp, it seems, is a harp, is a harp, is a harp.
the equivalent of the $500 sax. its functional, but not set up at the level of top professionals. and though there are many different kinds, most fit into the same price range, thus the same expectations.
the problem is: the demands of the modern player have evolved much faster than the instrument technology has. man or machine.
all the folks who make harmonicas know that 97.9% of their customers are going to be hitting bends and OB's, or will be attempting to do so.
Why ONLY manufacture, in this day and age, a sub-par product? Are the problems associated with it just inherent to the design of the harp? maybe, i guess. making 1000's of them a day just so they can make a dollar, quality control is next to impossible...
Granted, there's something to be said about tweaking your own, knowing what to look for and how to fix it, but it shouldnt have to be our only option.
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Kyzer's Travels
Last Edited by on Mar 24, 2010 9:01 PM
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clyde
20 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:13 PM
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kyzer,
when you buy a $500.00 sax at a music store most of the time you must have it adjusted. guess what? most guys that i've known with the higer priced sax have theirs adjusted too.! pads don't seat right or a key makes too much noise or ... it goes on and on just like a harmonica.
my buddy just bought a les paul Lucille model for big bucks and wouldn't you know it ... right down to the luthier to be ajusted.
different strokes for different folks
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Kyzer Sosa
239 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:16 PM
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then what is the difference between the two?
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Kyzer's Travels
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clyde
21 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:38 PM
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kyzer,
a very good player can make the better horn sound like heaven. there can be many differences in the two. differet materials,tone,volume,construction all make for a different sound,feel and lifetime of the instrument. are they out of the box perfect...no....
maybe for me...but not for someone else. the adjustments would be different for different players. different players like different mouthpieces and reeds and size reeds. it's not what's different between the two....but what's the same.
a very good player can make the cheap horn sound better than i can make the big bucks horn sound. with some horns i will even sound better on the cheaper one.
oh well
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RunsWithScissors
14 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:40 PM
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BBQBob - Thanks. Dead on.
A man, crying in the wilderness 8-)
Ciao4now
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Kyzer Sosa
244 posts
Mar 24, 2010
9:54 PM
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if i paid 5g's for a sax, it damn well better perform brilliantly as it is. and it probably does or it couldnt command such prices.
all im saying is with the exception of customizers and the newly introduced b-rad, we harmonica players arent able to get or hands on readily available pro-quality harps. maybe theres a reason for it?
but i digress... my opinion is that part of the allure of the instrument is in its simplicity and in the little intricate things we have to do to make each one play good music. ive never played two that were the very same. and if i practice long enough. i, too, can make any OOTB harp sound like heaven. just ask mr gussow.
with all the advances touted in the manji, weve read opinions here about them that are all over the place. i happened to get a good one. not everyone fared as well, i suppose. but if its good, it plays loud, crisp (glassy tone), and sounds great amplified. at the end of the day though, I cant say that it's any better than my other hohners...just...different.
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Kyzer's Travels
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captainbliss
6 posts
Mar 25, 2010
3:26 AM
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RE Manji: haven't played one, can't comment.
RE "pro-quality" harps: I can think of several pretty fine players who play out of the box harps professionally.
IMHO, the difference between a "decent" (MB, SP20, etc) stock and custom harp is something like the difference between a VW and a Porsche. Both are actually pretty well built to pretty exacting specs, both will get you from A to B, both are adequate to do pretty much anything you'll want to do.
And...
A good driver with a VW will beat a bad driver with a Porsche hands down and every time, even though, yes, the Porsche is a better car.
Also...
To stetch the metaphor a little further, don't we see far too many drivers crashing into a tree 'cause they don't know how to steer and then blaming the car?
Or...
As Kyzer Sosa puts it (more succinctly!) "if i practice long enough. i, too, can make any OOTB harp sound like heaven."
Right on the money.
xxx
EDIT: unless, of course, you want to play fully chromatically (like, say, Howard Levy) on a diatonic. Then you'll need to learn to tweak your VW (not that hard) or buy a Porsche.
Last Edited by on Mar 25, 2010 3:30 AM
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7LimitJI
50 posts
Mar 25, 2010
5:27 AM
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IMHO the best harp for any beginner would be a Lee Oskar. They also do many pro's too !
No swelling comb,loud,bright tone, relatively easy to bend,you don't hear many complaints regarding OOTB set-up, long lasting reeds.
I started on Blues Harps, and Marine Bands, discovered L.O. and thought they came from heaven.
My lips and tongue thanked me :o)
Over the years as I became a better player and learned to tune, replace reeds, gap and arc etc.
I then started thinking about the tone of the harp and went back to Marine Bands, as to MY ear they suit me better.
By this time, I didn't blow too hard, produce excess saliva, so had only minor swelling probs.
With all the info on Youtube etc, I now round off and seal the combs and plates, open up the rear of the coverplates, etc etc
Basically my point is, start off with relatively cheap harps, learn to play, learn to tune and tweak your own harps along the way.
Then your harps and your playing will develop and get better together.
With the analogies to cars above, as a rookie you start off in a low powered cheap car to learn.
You don't jump straight into an Indy or F1 car.
Serve your apprenticeship !
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The Harpist formerly known as Doggycam
Those Dangerous Gentlemens Myspace
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ness
167 posts
Mar 25, 2010
5:42 AM
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Inherent in the price of a high-end product is a premium that compensates the manufacturer for the lower volume he is likely to sell.
And, of course, there are likely to be (but, not necessarily) additional costs to manufacture the high end product -- like materials and labor.
Also is a premium for cachet. Manufacturers also make that, and carefully market and protect it.
So the price difference can't simply be boiled down to how much better the product is.
I think the guy in the Porsche is gonna beat the guy in the VW most of the time. There are vast differences in the two cars. But, the point is well-taken -- the driver makes a major difference.
With the harp, or any other musical instrument, the biggest difference in the output will be the skill of the player. Give me a Buddha harp, B-Rad, whatever, and it's gonna sound just a little better than shitty. And that's the case for the vast majority of people purchasing harmonicas. So, some manufacturers target the 'vast majority', and others target the top tier. There's a place for both.
So, buy what you like, learn to play it and set it up (or get somebody else to set it up) and play some music. We'll never get a consensus, but it's always gonna be debated -- and that's ok.
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mr_so&so
292 posts
Mar 25, 2010
7:43 AM
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Just received my first Manji in low F. All the notes and bends play and it is responsive. If I play it too hard, I get some squeals on bends, but if I ease off, it plays well. I could overblow 6 and 5 OOTB. I'm happy with the quality of it. I probably will gap it in a few days.
As for comparing the sound with other harps, I'll say it is more responsive that the Bluesmaster I have, and I like the sound of it more. It does not have that tinny sound of the Bluesmaster, or Hohner SP20. I don't have a low F Hohner MB to directly compare with it, but it seems more like a MB to me than anything else.
I'm happy with it. I like that it has a non-swelling comb and already has screws. I already have a full set of MBs but I may also get a set of Manjis, if this one continues to prove itself.
Last Edited by on Mar 25, 2010 10:53 AM
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