tookatooka
1145 posts
Feb 03, 2010
10:04 AM
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Read this article on the BBC the other day and wondered if this would be a very useful development that could be beneficial for harmonicas. I'm thinking of reedplates, reeds and coverplates. If we could prevent corrosion and rust it would extend the life of our harmonicas.
Spray-on liquid glass is transparent, non-toxic, and can protect virtually any surface against almost any damage from hazards such as water, UV radiation, dirt, heat, and bacterial infections. The coating is also flexible and breathable, which makes it suitable for use on an enormous array of products.
The liquid glass spray (technically termed “SiO2 ultra-thin layering”) consists of almost pure silicon dioxide (silica, the normal compound in glass) extracted from quartz sand. Water or ethanol is added, depending on the type of surface to be coated. There are no additives, and the nano-scale glass coating bonds to the surface because of the quantum forces involved. According to the manufacturers, liquid glass has a long-lasting antibacterial effect because microbes landing on the surface cannot divide or replicate easily.
Liquid glass was invented in Turkey and the patent is held by Nanopool, a family-owned German company. Research on the product was carried out at the Saarbrücken Institute for New Materials. Nanopool is already in negotiations in the UK with a number of companies and with the National Health Service, with a view to its widespread adoption.
The liquid glass spray produces a water-resistant coating only around 100 nanometers (15-30 molecules) thick. On this nanoscale the glass is highly flexible and breathable. The coating is environmentally harmless and non-toxic, and easy to clean using only water or a simple wipe with a damp cloth. It repels bacteria, water and dirt, and resists heat, UV light and even acids. UK project manager with Nanopool, Neil McClelland, said soon almost every product you purchase will be coated with liquid glass.
Food processing companies in Germany have already carried out trials of the spray, and found sterile surfaces that usually needed to be cleaned with strong bleach to keep them sterile needed only a hot water rinse if they were coated with liquid glass. The levels of sterility were higher for the glass-coated surfaces, and the surfaces remained sterile for months.
Other organizations, such as a train company and a hotel chain in the UK, and a hamburger chain in Germany, are also testing liquid glass for a wide range of uses. A year-long trial of the spray in a Lancashire hospital also produced “very promising” results for a range of applications including coatings for equipment, medical implants, catheters, sutures and bandages. The war graves association in the UK is investigating using the spray to treat stone monuments and grave stones, since trials have shown the coating protects against weathering and graffiti. Trials in Turkey are testing the product on monuments such as the Ataturk Mausoleum in Ankara.
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isaacullah
659 posts
Feb 03, 2010
10:17 AM
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That's pretty cool, tooka... I LOVE new tech stuff like that... I actually recently watched a show about industrial design on PBS, and saw how Apple cuts out it's key boards and monitor frames for the new Mac's and macbooks from single sheets of aluminum. They use a computer controlled cutter, not a stamp. I was thinking a) why don'e harp manufactures use those kind of cutters instead of stamping out reedplates? Would not the tolerances be better (is this what sets the Manji apart?) and b) why not aluminum reedplates? They won't corrode or deform as easily as brass ones. They are super easy to mill. al the same customization techniques could be done on them (embossing, etc.). And they are super lightweight...
I'm just saying, you know?
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The magnificent YouTube channel of the internet user known as "isaacullah"
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2010 10:18 AM
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barbequebob
427 posts
Feb 03, 2010
10:24 AM
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Before using any of those chemicals, the first thing you need to know is toxicity and some of these things could wind up being deadly.
As far as aluminum reed plates, sometime around WW-II/early 1950's, Hohner actually used aluminum reed plates on the 64 Chrominica for a few years. They actually played pretty well, but every chromatic harp tech I know have also said that they were a freaking bitch to work on and aluminum can and does rust, and when the Meisterklasse came out originally prior to being part of the MS series (and also as a chromatic), the combs were aluminum and the reeds were made of beryllium copper alloy. Oh, those combs eventually rusted like hell, and you had to be really anal about maintenance and cleaning.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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tookatooka
1146 posts
Feb 03, 2010
10:37 AM
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@ BBQBob @ Absolutely.
@ Isaac @ Sounds interesting doesn't it? If the resulting coating is only 15-30 molecules thick it shouldn't be a problem for reeds. You could spray then centrifuge the plates to remove the excess and ensure the reed to reedslot gaps are kept clear. It could even plate the reedslot slightly to make a tighter reed to slot tolerance.
Hey! I can see another project coming on. I may build me a centrifuge.
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Diggsblues
123 posts
Feb 03, 2010
10:48 AM
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It was that the Meisterclass pitted rather than rusted.
Carlos Dejunco showed me his unplated ones and I saw the pitting.
He had his combs nickel plated to stop the pitting but I think they had
to be copper plated first. The plated combs sounded
like the tone was fatter.
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HarmonicaMick
75 posts
Feb 03, 2010
11:14 AM
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I had to skim the above cos I'm in a bit of a rush.
I've read a couple of threads on here about stainless stell cover plates rusting, and being perplexed, I did some research. As far I could determine, stainless steel doesn't rust. That's why it's called stainless.
If memory serves, there are different types, but they all have chromium in them, which is what gives them their 'stainlessness', if you'll pardon the neologism.
In effect, the metal, when scratched, heals itself: the chromium forms a new protective layer.
Whatever the original posters found, I can't see how it could have been rust; coffee maybe, or... who knows what?
Both Hohner and Seydel are very clear about this on their respective websites.
I'm out of time now.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
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Diggsblues
125 posts
Feb 03, 2010
11:58 AM
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I can see the tomatoes coming now. I know I'm
bad. Did they say anthing about it being used as
spray on condom. LOL
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Kyzer Sosa
105 posts
Feb 03, 2010
12:24 PM
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heres an idea for us stock OTB players....throw the mother humper out the window and get a new one.....
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Kyzer's Travels
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nacoran
995 posts
Feb 03, 2010
12:32 PM
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With copper you get a patina which covers things with a green color. Unfortunately, the tidy harmonica player then cleans that off to make his harmonica look bright and shiny, which exposes the next layer down.
Someone on here had a harmonica that got flooded during Katrina who swore it played great afterwards. I imagine the patina and other gunk probably served like embossing, just hard enough so it didn't chip away, but soft enough so it didn't jam the reeds. I think we even debated possible ways to recreate the experience.
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HarmonicaMick
76 posts
Feb 03, 2010
1:24 PM
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If think that walterharp's citation is on one of those web pages that I came across. At least, I remember reading a very similar passage.
This, also, from Hohner:
"Extremely stable stainless steel covers which won't tarnish and are easy to clean"
It's from here:
http://www.hohner.eu/index.php?1335
I've not looked up the specific meaning or etymology of 'tarnish' but, I presume it includes 'rust'.
Either I've misunderstood or Hohner are telling fibs.
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YouTube SlimHarpMick
Last Edited by on Feb 03, 2010 1:26 PM
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nacoran
1014 posts
Feb 03, 2010
9:25 PM
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Gene- Some surfaces are hard for microbes to latch on to because of their molecular shape, some are actually microscopically jagged and they will rupture the cell walls of bacteria. (Or a least that's what I remember reading somewhere.)
That brings me to the next question- How does it feel on the lips?
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Doggycam
8 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:05 AM
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Couldn't be used on the reeds. The coating would be scraped/ground off when tuning. Be cool on the plates,combs and covers.
Mind you in all the years I've been playing,I've never cleaned a harp. Only wiped the cover plates.
I never eat just before playing and only imbibe water,beer or whisky !! :o)
The only corrosion that is a problem, is on aluminium combs and internal surface of steel cover plates.
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rbeetsme
185 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:38 AM
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I read this same article and it's application to wood instruments, guitars, mandolins, ukuleles, etc. Might be a good protectorent for those finishes, but...it washes off with water. Good for your guitar, not so good for a comb.
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Nastyolddog
175 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:47 AM
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Hi Bro's sounds like good stuff for a finish coat on my custom Harp Builds,,i use a polyester resin at the moment if its as hard as the polyester resin and not to expensive i would give it a try..
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tookatooka
1149 posts
Feb 04, 2010
5:54 AM
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@ rbeetsme @ Where does it say it washes off with water? Did you read the article? It reads:
"The coating is environmentally harmless and non-toxic, and easy to clean using only water or a simple wipe with a damp cloth".
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Last Edited by on Feb 04, 2010 5:55 AM
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rbeetsme
186 posts
Feb 04, 2010
6:23 AM
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I read that, misunderstood, thought they were saying the finish washed off with water. As Emily Petella (Gilda) used to say "Never Mind"
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