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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! >
Blues bashing
Blues bashing
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mankycodpiece
105 posts
Jan 23, 2010
9:31 AM
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it isn't where you are,it's where you aspire to be.
if you arn't good at whatever,the only thing that i won't respect,is if you're content with that,and are happy to fake it.
anything worthwhile takes dedication and work.lets face it,anyone can be crap at something.
someone mentioned toots earlier,yes he's terrific at everything,but it isn't the gift alone,it's the work that went into it as well.
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barbequebob
371 posts
Jan 23, 2010
10:02 AM
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Chris, come on down and have fun!!!! lol.
Philosophy, I am also largely self taught and also took the time the learn theory on my own, and I do understand exactly what you're saying. In many open jams, the skill level of the players on the bandstand may not be a whole lot higher than what you may believe and many don't know what real good harp playing may really be.
On the other hand, if you're in one of those "special invite" AKA snob jams, the skill level of the participants is often times a lot higher than the open jams and you're more likely to get real feedback (often times brutally honest). At least on those jams, you usually have a drummer on hand who at least can keep the time straight, wheras in open jams, I usually expect the worst.
Honkin', remember, you're starting with baby steps and there's always time to learn and improve.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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Diggsblues
39 posts
Jan 23, 2010
2:14 PM
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Don't hurt anybody. You just have to smoke'em. lol
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Buddha
1308 posts
Jan 23, 2010
4:23 PM
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Diggs, I can't have take no prisoners attitude if I don't completely wipe them off the face of the earth.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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hvyj
95 posts
Jan 23, 2010
4:45 PM
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Yeah, but be careful. Remember, Roy (of Sigfried and Roy) got mauled to near death by a tiger.
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Buddha
1309 posts
Jan 23, 2010
5:03 PM
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yeah but I would never be mean to an animal!
I hope you all know, I'm just blowing smoke.
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"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are." - Joseph Campbell
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kudzurunner
993 posts
Jan 23, 2010
5:35 PM
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So where does Coltrane fit into all this?
Actually, what people forget is that most of the great creative jazz players--Trane, Bird, Monk; and many of the big-band tenors--were southern-born blues guys first.
Since my own musical interests lie at the place where jazz and blues intersect--and Cream, pushed by jazz drummer Ginger Baker, is part of that--this dialogue has always intrigued me. I suspect that the sociology of black musicianship at mid-century would disclose an answer, but maybe it wouldn't. Sterling Magee insisted to me that some jazz guys looked down on blues, and I've heard that from others, but there are many players who cross the fence. The Crusaders, formerly the Jazz Crusaders, sort of do. B.B. King certainly does; he always invokes Django Reinhardt as one of his key formative influences. Robert Jr. Lockwood added jazz chords to the Chicago blues repertoire. Willis Gatortail Jackson (iTunes: "Gator's Groove"), who I saw a couple of times in the arly 80s, was the kind of tenor player I'm thinking of. Jazz guy; blues guy. Grant Green.
The All-Music Guide to Blues has a terrific section towards the end entitled "The Jazz Side of Blues." It's an invaluable resource for those, like me, who like their jazz bluesy, their blues jazzy.
Think: Joe Williams with the Count Basie Orchestra. Think Bessie Smith backed by all THOSE "jazz guys." Think: B. B. King's big band. Think: T. Bone Walker's band.
What I meant by "the sociology of black musicianship at midcentury" was that musicians were culture heroes in the black community, and many culture heroes have egos. Blues performers (guitarists, harpsis) sing; jazz musicians don't--although of course there are jazz VOCALISTS. But I'm talking about jazz performers apart from vocalists. Gradients of status often emerge within subcultural communities; when you're part of a generally beleaguered community in which people are vying for status, girls, etc., it's not surprising that the jazz guys would put the blues guys down as ignorant simpletons and the blues guys would sneer at the jazz guys as vain, stuck-up, effeminate, schoolboys who wouldn't know how to use a knife or work a crowd. And of course Big Joe Williams (the Mississippi guitar player) and, say, Duke Ellington, might have had the same color skin, but they came from entirely different worlds.
B. B. King and many other musicians brought those two worlds together.
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nacoran
862 posts
Jan 23, 2010
5:59 PM
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Adam- So it's like East Coast-West Coast rap feuds! The more things change...
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mojojojo
26 posts
Jan 25, 2010
8:24 AM
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When I told my friend I was taking up blues music, he said "That's pretty must just a (musical) exercise." I guess he meant by playing scales.
Harp is my first instrument. After two years I'm just starting to find my way around the notes, even after a lot of study of theory. Compare this to piano keyboard. In a day I had all the major/minor/7th chords memorized, and in two weeks I can play with two hands in pretty good harmony, improvising over blues scales and making my own music. I have yet to make my own harmonica riffs! The note layout adds to the learning curve.
Some bands/musicians here in Indonesia who play blues and oldies are nice enough to let me jam along. Sometimes I crash and burn. The funny thing is that they do point out what key to play in. But "E" in Indonesian sounds like "A" in English, and because I know they know what harp to play cross, sometimes its not clear they are mentioning the harp key or song key!
I've noticed that in bands the musicians can look on to each other when they forget chord changes, and most are familiar with the basics of several instruments. These guys have hundreds of songs in their repertoire.
And many of the bands practice together! If a relatively new musician sits in with a band it would be nice to point out the key if they are giving someone a chance to grow.
Funny thing is I wrote my first blues song, and the musicians took it and made it, and now I have to go to the practice tomorrow and figure out the harp part for it! Isn't that a strange place for a harp chugger to be in?
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nacoran
870 posts
Jan 25, 2010
11:48 AM
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mojojojo- I find myself in that position all the time. I write a song to sing, then decide it sounds better when my friend sings it and have to write a harp part for it.
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Bluefinger
5 posts
Jan 26, 2010
2:44 AM
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IMHO the biggest mistake you can make with blues is to underestimate it. Yes, it's easy to play blues but it's very difficult to play it right. It takes a LOT of listening and practicing to get the feeling, phrasing and all the subtleties down. I have heard a lot of players (mostly jazzers) dissing blues music but I have yet to hear one of them playing good blues. The good jazzers will rarely say anything bad about blues because they are able to see more in music than just chords and scales.
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Kingley
691 posts
Jan 26, 2010
2:54 AM
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"IMHO the biggest mistake you can make with blues is to underestimate it. Yes, it's easy to play blues but it's very difficult to play it right. It takes a LOT of listening and practicing to get the feeling, phrasing and all the subtleties down."
Bluefinger, I absolutely 100% agree with you there.
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phogi
209 posts
Jan 26, 2010
4:58 AM
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@mojojojo
If that's true about learning all the chords and being able to competently jam in one day, you are playing the WRONG instrument and need to take up piano playing. Most adults can't wrap their head around a major or minor chord on piano, much less 7th chords, much less all variants in all keys. If you can really do that, hats off to you. Lay down that harp, play some keys!
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nacoran
880 posts
Jan 26, 2010
9:15 AM
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phogi- Major and minor keys are easy on the piano, as long as you only play in C! (Or A minor). It's just 4 half steps, three half steps for your major chord and you just move the middle note down for the minor. I don't have all of it memorized, but sit me down in front of a piano and I can figure it all out again. I took about two weeks of piano lessons before I got carpel tunnel but the way they drill you on scales learning the keys isn't that bad either. I think by the end of the semester I would have had it down pretty well. Piano really is the best instrument, as far as I'm concerned, for learning theory.
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barbequebob
392 posts
Jan 26, 2010
9:52 AM
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Blues is generally simple in terms of basic chord changes, butthe subtle stuff, namely groove and feel, are considerably more difficult to learn, and that it the truth.
For theory, it really doesn't matter what instrument, it applies to all. Piano is no doubt easier to figure things out on, but also it can be done on guitar or even a melodica or accordion as well.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
http://www.barbequebob.com
CD available at http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bbmaglinte
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