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Dirty-South Blues Harp forum: wail on! > Origins of bending
Origins of bending
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Philosofy
912 posts
Jun 16, 2019
3:29 PM
We know the harmonica was originally intended for German folk music, and playing single notes then vamping a chord. But when did the 1,2, and 3 hole draw bends come about? Did the Germans know about them, or was it discovered and used first by the early blues players?
DanP
409 posts
Jun 16, 2019
6:38 PM
With the Richter tuning that made getting chords easy and leaving notes out, the Germans made blues harmonica possible without knowing it because the blues did not exist at that time (at least not in Germany). I may be wrong but I don't think anyone knows who first started playing blues harp.

Last Edited by DanP on Jun 16, 2019 8:59 PM
kudzurunner
6570 posts
Jun 16, 2019
8:28 PM
I'm not aware of any evidence that substantiates DanP's claim that the first person to bend a note on the harmonica was "a black person in the Southern U.S. probably around the time the Marine Band harmonica became available."

That certainly might be true, but without evidence that we can all look at and evaluate, it's just wish fulfillment fantasy. Sounds great, and gets you cool points! Might be true. But might not be true.


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Beyond the Crossroads: The Devil and the Blues Tradition
DanP
410 posts
Jun 16, 2019
8:58 PM
You're correct, kudzurunner. Since we don't know who the first person to bend a note was, then it stands to reason that we don't know the race of that person. That was just conjecture on my part and I apologize. I will delete that part of my post.

Last Edited by DanP on Jun 16, 2019 9:15 PM
Sundancer
291 posts
Jun 16, 2019
10:34 PM
It’s probably unknowable who bent a note first. But we do know who recorded the first bent note.

According to Pat Missin, “Henry Whitter was the first person to record in the cross harp position and despite being a white musician, he showed a notable African-American influence on his harmonica style. Born in 1892 in Fries, Virginia, Whitter claimed to have made test recordings for Okeh in March 1923, however his first official recording session was in December 1923, in NewYork City. The first three pieces he recorded at this session were all harmonica solos.”

Last Edited by Sundancer on Jun 16, 2019 10:42 PM
SuperBee
6014 posts
Jun 17, 2019
4:42 AM
Good one, Sundancer.
I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of the Europeans having awareness of the bent notes. I kind of discovered bending by accident within a few years of messing about with no instruction. I think it’s probably likely that the people who developed the instrument would have become aware that the notes would change with embouchre and breath force.
florida-trader
1434 posts
Jun 18, 2019
5:41 AM
It is my understanding, and, like everybody else, I could be wrong about this, that harmonica makers were aware of bending long before it became popular to use bent notes in music. I am led to believe that the divided comb, what Winslow calls the "Discrete" comb, was developed to inhibit bending. Most of us know that when we bend a draw note we, in effect, choke or stall the draw reed and engage the blow reed. By placing each reed in its own individual chamber, you limit the ability to have them interact. The predecessor of the Marine Band 1896 is the Up to Date 1896 1/2, which has a divided comb - presumably for that very reason.
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Tom Halchak
Blue Moon Harmonicas
Blue Moon Harmonicas

Last Edited by florida-trader on Jun 18, 2019 6:06 AM
The Iceman
3872 posts
Jun 18, 2019
7:24 AM
It's reasonable to postulate that the Germans knew about "bending" when they developed the diatonic, but the music of the day was based around the I and V chord and the diatonic scale, so no need for any sounds or notes created through the bending.

It's also reasonable to postulate that the "bending" fit in quite well with the black slave's propensity to create music based more on a I IV chord structure with the "bending" imitating the mournful cries of the field hands' note choices, so they "took it and ran with it".
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The Iceman
barbequebob
3590 posts
Jun 18, 2019
8:18 AM
I doubt there will be any actual evidence of when the note bending technique got its start but when the harmonica first came out as we know it in the 1850's, note bending was NOT part of the design and anything said that it was part of its design is telling you nothing but assumptions and total BS. The instrument itself was never originally designed to play 90% of what's being presntly played today at all and subsequently, it was people playing the instrument who were responsible for the technique and NOT the maufacturers at all.
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Sincerely,
Barbeque Bob Maglinte
Boston, MA
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Last Edited by barbequebob on Jun 19, 2019 8:45 AM
Littoral
1685 posts
Jun 18, 2019
8:26 AM
Origin of Bending?
I've chased the design aspect of this question for a very long time and have never seen any information that indicates bends were intentional in the design of diatonic harmonicas. A fortuitous accident. Given what the diatonic can do that is unbelievable. As a scientist I am not inclined to accept supernatural explanations but until someone has some credibile account for how the design happened I'm going with magic.
Littoral
1686 posts
Jun 18, 2019
8:26 AM
Origin of Bending?
I've chased the design aspect of this question for a very long time and have never seen any information that indicates bends were intentional in the design of diatonic harmonicas. A fortuitous accident? Given what the diatonic can do that is unbelievable. As a scientist I am not inclined to accept supernatural explanations but until someone has some credibile account for how the design happened I'm going with magic.

Last Edited by Littoral on Jun 18, 2019 8:26 AM
The Iceman
3873 posts
Jun 18, 2019
10:07 AM
No, the diatonic was not designed to "bend". That technique developed later....

I developed a cool presentation back in the Golden Age of Spah (1996 - 2000) days as a clinician - "Diatonic Harmonica - the instrument touched by God"....in which I described the original design/pop tunes of the day/chords/notes available and the two paradigm shifts that came later resulting in a 3 octave (plus one semi-tone) chromatic instrument.
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The Iceman

Last Edited by The Iceman on Jun 18, 2019 10:08 AM
Honkin On Bobo
1513 posts
Jun 19, 2019
4:51 AM
Did you keep that presentation, Iceman? I'd be interested in seeing it. Perhaps post it as a PDF or some other file here, or somewhere. Something like that should not be lost to posterity. I know the request is a long shot, but what the hell.

HOB
Tom585
96 posts
Jun 19, 2019
5:51 AM
Tom - I'm not familiar with the divided comb harp. Are any still made? I'm wondering if they would still allow bending by acting like a valved harmonica and every reed could be bent.

Tom
The Iceman
3874 posts
Jun 19, 2019
7:18 AM
Honkin'

Presentation was given at SPAH around 1997/1998 - can't remember exactly. No video available....once I sketched out the concept, seminar was given without notes, so no pdf files exist.

Very interesting seminar, if I do say so myself...
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The Iceman
Gnarly
2671 posts
Jun 19, 2019
9:15 AM
@Tom585 Winslow Yerxa made some, I have a couple, including one signed by Howard Levy.
Called the Discrete Comb, he might still have them available.
http://www.winslowyerxa.com/harmonicainfo/products/dc/dcmain.htm
WinslowYerxa
1642 posts
Jun 21, 2019
6:28 AM
Divided combs were not designed to inhibit bending.

The New Best Quality model dates from the early 20th century, but divided combs originated at least 50 years earlier and perhaps as much as a century earlier.

Wiener (Viennese) construction used by Wilhelm Thie, whose manufacturing started sometime in the 1820s, was used for tremolo harmonicas, putting each reed in a separate chamber, with dividers between side-by-side blow and draw reeds and between upper and lower reedplates (the lower one providing the slightly out of tune notes that created the tremolo effect).

Knittlinger construction, like Wiener construction, had blow and draw reeds side by side on each reedplate and had a horizontal divider, but paired blow and draw reeds in the same chamber, with half as many vertical dividers as Wiener construction. The lower reedplate was usually tuned an octave higher or lower than the upper, as in the Hohner Auto Valve and Marine Band Concert models and the Seydel Concerto. (Once you remove the mouthpiece and slide, you can see that chromatic harmonicas also use Knittlinger construction, but with the reedplates tuned a semitone apart.)

Richter construction places all the blow reeds on one plate (the upper) and all the draw reeds on the other plate, pairing blow and draw reeds in a single hole with no horizontal divider. We know for certain that this construction was in use by the 1870s, although note layout differed from what is commonly called Richter tuning.

Early mail order catalogs make a selling point of the bigger sound of octave-tune Knittlnger harmonicas with their visible feature of a horiontal divider. Single reed models like the New Best Quality (which came after, not before the Marine Band) simply used that divider to imitate the visible feature of the octave models at a lower cost, kind of like a fake presitge feature.

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Winslow

Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2019 convention in Tulsa, August 14-17
The 2019 Harmonica Collective in November

Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 21, 2019 6:31 AM
nacoran
10133 posts
Jun 21, 2019
1:12 PM
Following up on Winslow's comment, has anyone ever had a single row, single hole, two reeds per hole, one blow one draw on the same reed plate design? Would you still get bends?


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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
SuperBee
6020 posts
Jun 21, 2019
2:49 PM
Nate, are you describing a harp with only one reedplate?
I don’t know of one but with all else equal, bends would still be possible just as on a chromatic. It would be a relatively long harp compared to a richter type.
nacoran
10134 posts
Jun 22, 2019
10:03 AM
Long, but thin... too bad technology isn't quite where it's cheap to make one off reed plates to test.

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Nate
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First Post- May 8, 2009
WinslowYerxa
1644 posts
Jun 23, 2019
4:48 PM
Nate asks: "has anyone ever had a single row, single hole, two reeds per hole, one blow one draw on the same reed plate design? Would you still get bends?"

Yes and yes. Years ago there was a plastic-bodied Chinese banana harp (banana-shaped yellow body) with a one-octave range. It had a single reedplate with side-by-side blow and draw reeds, and yes, it bent.

You can also bend notes – if you isolate either top or bottom row – on an unvalved Auto Valve or Concerto Knittlinger harp or on a Wiener-bodied tremolo or octave harp. As long as the blow and draw reeds overlap in the opening range of one and the closig range of the other and are both in your airstream, you can bend the higher of the two down.
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Winslow

Harmonica lessons with one of the world's foremost experts
Check out my blog and other goodies at winslowyerxa.com
Harmonica For Dummies, Second Edition with tons of new stuff
SPAH 2019 convention in Tulsa, August 14-17
The 2019 Harmonica Collective in November

Last Edited by WinslowYerxa on Jun 23, 2019 4:50 PM


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